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Moltres

Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by STEELDRAGON, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    453
    [​IMG]

    #146 Moltres -
    [​IMG]/[​IMG]-


    Moltres, of the the legendary birds, it has massive Special attack, and good overall stats, however, Stealth rock effectily neuters it. In order to make the most of Moltres, a Spinner is required, since Stealth rock takes 50% from it each time.

    Base Stats: Hp 90 - Atk 100 - Def 90 - SAtk 125 - SDef 85 - Spe 90 (BST: 580)

    Abilities:

    Pressure:
    Moves that affect this Pokémon (including Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Stealth Rock) lose one extra PP per turn. When a Pokémon with this ability is first in the party, wild encounters have a higher chance of occurring.
    Flame Body (Dream World): When this Pokemon is damaged by a contact move the Pokemon which used the move has a 30% chance of becoming burned. If the attack does no damage, Flame Body does not activate.


    Movepool
    :

    - Level-Up Moves: Lv1: Wing Attack, Lv1: Ember, Lv8: Fire Spin, Lv15: Agility, Lv22: Endure, Lv29: AncientPower, Lv36: Flamethrower, Lv43: Safeguard, Lv50: Air Slash, Lv57: Roost, Lv64: Heat Wave, Lv71: Solarbeam, Lv78: Sky Attack, Lv85: Sunny Day


    - Learnable TMs; , TM05 - Roar, TM06 - Toxic, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM15 - Hyper Beam, TM17 - Protect, TM18 - Rain Dance, TM20 - Safeguard, TM21 - Frustration, TM22 - Solar Beam, TM27 - Return, TM32 - Double Team, TM35 - Flamethower, TM37 - Sandstorm, TM38 - Fire Blast , TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM43 - Nitro Charge, TM44 - Rest, TM48 - Troll, TM50 - Overheat, TM58 - Free Fall, TM59 - Complete Burn, TM61 - Will-O-Wisp, TM68 - Giga Impact, TM87 - Swagger, TM88 - Pluck, TM89 - U-Turn, TM90 - Substitute, TM94 - Rock Smash, HM02 - Fly

    New moves (open)


    TM43 - Nitro Charge
    Special Fire PP: 20 Power: 50 / Accuracy: 100 Effect: Raises speed by one stage.

    TM48 - Troll
    Special Normal PP: 15 Power: 60 / Accuracy: 100 Effect: The more pokemon on your team that have the move troll, the Base power rises

    TM58 - Free Fall
    Physical Flying PP: 10 Power: 60 / Accuracy: 100 Effect: Raises the opponent up in the air, when the opponent is up in the air, it cannot move.

    TM59 - Complete Burn

    Special Fire PP: 15 Power: 30 / Accuracy: 100 Effect: Burns the opponent's berry, so it can't use it.




    Traits:


    • Quadruple Weakness to Stealth Rock: With Stealth Rock being so prevalent, it really hampers Moltres effectiveness, and because of stealth rock, Moltres absolutely needs a rapid spinner, or else, Moltres probably won't hold its own,


    • Great Special attack: With up to 383 Special attack, it is sure to put a dent in just about anything that is not called Blissey, Chansey, Heatran or bulky water types. It also has the sheer power of 2koing most water types with Hidden power grass.


    • Versatile: Moltres is one of the most versatile fire types out there, it can be used on Stall teams with with a sub roost set, or it can be a deadly sweeper with Nitro Charge. Moltres can take one quite a few roles, it is a pretty effective lead, when it's scarfed.


    Potential Sets:


    Sweeper

    Set #1

    [​IMG]@[​IMG]
    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Nature: Modest/Timid
    Ability: Flame Body
    6 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe

    ~Nitro Charge
    ~Fire Blast
    ~Air Slash
    ~Roost/Hidden power Grass/Ground

    After it's gotten a speed boost through Nitro charge it is pretty difficult to take down. Fire blast is the very powerful STAB move the will do horrendous damage to just about anything that doesn't resist it. Air slash is also very powerful, OHKOing most fighting types, and gets great coverage along side Fire Blast. In the last slot If you want Moltres to stay around for a while there's roost, but Hidden power grass destroys the ground type such as Swampert, and Donphan. Hidden Power ground is primarily to OHKO Heatran who otherwise can laugh at this set, and roar out or set up on you.

    SubRoost

    Set #2

    [​IMG]@[​IMG]
    Moltres @ Leftovers
    Nature: Bold
    Ability: Pressure
    248 HP/252 Def/8 Spe

    ~Substitute
    ~Roost
    ~Flamethrower
    ~Toxic

    The fire bird's defensive set. This set works phenomenally with Toxic spikes, as most of it's checks/counters are grounded water/ground types. The Pokemon that are immune to toxic spikes or absorb, are usually weak to flamethrower. A few Pokemon wall this set though, and they are Heatran, who you can't do any damage at all to, so your only option is to try to stall out it's PP. Another pokemon that walls this is Tentacruel, that Pokemon can absorb the toxic spikes if you have set them up and can easily take flamethrowers because of it's massive 120 base Special defense. Snorlax though, is probably the most dangerous Pokemon that walls this set, since flamethrower is halved, and it can easily set up curses on you. Other than that, this Moltres can be very effective since it's so bulky, many people underestimate Motlres's bulk. it has 90/90/85 defenses, which is quite bulky and this set generates 383 HP, and 305 defense so it can easily wall quite a few physical threats.


    Conclusion:

    I think Moltres won't be quite as used as it was back in the 4th generation metagame, it appears that there will be tons of weather oriented teams going around, and Stealth rock will be as prevalent as it ever was. Moltres did get a boost through Nitro Charge, so it can attempt to sweep teams with with well over 400 speed, and massive special attack. It is outclassed by Heatran for the most part since, it has better overall stats, Steel typing and a neutrality to Stealth Rock. I just don't think Moltres can stand up to many of the new threats that has arisen in the 5th generation. What kind of niche do you expect Moltres to fill this generation?
  2. Acklow

    Acklow

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    3,598
    Moltres didn't get much love this gen...It's better off running Pressure over Flamebody because of the larger quantity of Surf/Thunderbolt users. Flamebody should be used in the Scarf-Lead set though.
  3. MarsVolta

    MarsVolta

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    15
    Nitro Charge Moltres can actually make a pretty good lead imo. As a lead Stealth Rock is not an issue.

    Moltres @ Focus Sash/Lum Berry
    Nature: Modest
    Ability: Flame Body
    252 SpA/252 Spe/6 Hp
    ~Nitro Charge
    ~Roost/Air Slash
    ~Fire Blast
    ~Hidden Power Grass

    Nitro Charge and Fire Blast allow Moltres to kill sashed suicude leads giving them only one turn to either set up stealth rock or attack. This effectively means your opponents next pokemon has to face Moltres at + 1. Hidden power grass threatens most bulky leads like Swampert and Hippowdon, and since most leads use ground attacks, Moltes' flying typing is very useful here. Roost allows Moltres to recover health, which is useful since the only leads likely to require it to use it's focus sash anyway are Aerodactyl and Tyranitar(whom you should just switch out against anyway). Focus sash is also very useful because against a sandstorm team, you can 2hko a Hippowdon lead with no SpD evs(which is becoming more common in order to stop Doryuuzu) and then use the sash to Ohko Doryuuzu attempting to revenge you, or even kill him while he swords dances, thinking you'd switch.

    Lum berry might also be a good item instead, since it lets you check Roserade and Erufuun but gives you a chance to die against aerodactyl. Also, air slash could be used instead of roost in this case to hit Infernape and Machamp hard.

    Flame body is the ability of choice because it gives you a chance to burn a random physical threat, which is good since Pressure isn't really that useful on a lead set.
  4. Acklow

    Acklow

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    Erm...Focus Sash is negated in Sandstorm...
  5. MarsVolta

    MarsVolta

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    rofl, how did I forget that.
    Ya you're right, my mistake. >.>
  6. Alexa888

    Alexa888

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    Oct 8, 2009
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    How effective Moltres is this Gen will be down to how easy Spikes are to get up. If it easy to get 2+ layers of spikes on the battlefield and can keep them their, Moltres can wreck shit. Nitro Charge means you can run Modest, but you lose either coverage or the ability to heal.
  7. Bodofagod

    Bodofagod

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    You guys overlooked moltres' biggest new attribute. any by attribute i mean ninetales. I did run a sunny day team just to see how it would hold up. I tried so many pokemon to get a perfect benefiter from sun. I remembered moltres. I threw donphan on the team to rapid spin and moltres becomes a huge threat his fire blast rips through teams
  8. Flareon

    Flareon

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    Moltres is my favorite kanto legend, it's a shame he isn't used more. Maybe Droughttails will be a good partner, allowing him to run Solarbeam, and boosting his STAB more. Also, pressure is still the better ability imo
  9. prenceofdarkness

    prenceofdarkness

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    Don't put the last 6 EVs into Health! If you do it brings moltres to 322. 322/2 = 161 meaning you will die by switching into stealth rock twice. 321/2 = 160.5 rounded down to 160. 321 - 160 - 160 = 1HP. Now of course this wont make a difference a lot of the time, but i think you'll be in a situation way more often where your moltres has worked like a revenge killer then were the 1 additional Hit point will win you the game.

    Otherwise great set, going to go use it now.
  10. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    You might want to edit the OP a little, Nitro Charge is physical, not special.
  11. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    On sun he's somewhat outclassed by the faster and harder hitting Solar Power Zard, and off it if you want a special sweeping 4x SR weak Fire type, Volcarona will probably be your choice. In terms of SubRoosting, Zappy outclasses in terms of speed and SR weakness, sadly. I don't see much of a niche for Moltres inn Gen V OU...
  12. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

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    Less than one page of discussion.

    I would like to ask why hail teams haven't been using this guy at all. If you're running hail, you're already running spin support. And unlike Heatran, he can actually outstall rotom-w hydro pump with pressure and resists fighting.

    Sun teams will never want him, but moltres can carry his own wieght in hail and in the lower tiers otherwise. Having and weather that isn't sand helps against excadrill too.
  13. Hillz

    Hillz

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    Dec 29, 2010
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    Right now, the biggest problem for moltres is that it doesn't have very large time windows in which to enter the battle. Last generation, with the introduction of stealth rock, moltres found it's safest position as a lead, but with the advent of team-preview, moltes is pretty much screwed the entire battle.
  14. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. I am obviously assuming spin support, but given the ubiquity of ferrothorn it has plenty of opportunities to come in. Sub / Roost / Flamethrower / Toxic is probably its best set since Moltres does have decent resistances and STAB fire attacks to get rid of those steels.

    It certainly isn't treated kindly enough by the metagame to be a staple, but it has its niche.

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