Mono-Water Madness

[tofurkey]

EDIT: Wow, this is a blast from the past. After moving back into school, I discovered that my Wi-Fi on my DS doesn't really work, and so my Pokemon playing took a sharp drop into nothing. However, I recently discovered Shoddy, so finally I can do some playing again.

I've always been a fan of themed teams, and Water ended up being the most successful mono-type team that I could come up with mostly because of its big variety of Pokemon and its better defensive typing. I had to make a few changes because of the attack split, but otherwise this is pretty close to the team that I ran on Netbattle. For the most part this is a planned Competitor team, but I don't think it would be too difficult to pull off for Wi-Fi.

One thing I noticed in the current D/P metagame is that EVERYTHING has an Electric attack. Grass Pokemon aren't all as difficult to deal with/common as I originally thought they would be, but the fact that everything is Thunderpunching or Thunderbolting me was getting on my nerves, so I took a different approach and tried to make myself a little less weak to Electric.

Gyarados@Leftovers
Adamant, 86 HP,252 ATK, 72 DEF, 100 SPD
-Taunt
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Dragon Dance

Taunt has solidified its role in Gyarados's moveset. As for Stone Edge, it gives better coverage than I had previously thought. I often find myself reaching for Waterfall and then realizing that I already have it covered otherwise.

Swampert@Leftovers
Relaxed, 252 HP, 216 DEF, 42 SPA
-Earthquake
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Stealth Rock

The only guy on this team that hasn't changed a bit.

Kingler@Choice Scarf
Jolly, 16 HP, 252 ATK, 6 SPD, 236 SDF
-Crabhammer
-Rock Slide
-X-Scissor
-Return

Oh God, what was I thinking putting this guy in? From Ludicolo to this, I seriously thought that I was making the worst decision of my life.

Why did I get rid of Ludicolo? Well, for the most part, he didn't contribute quite enough. There is a general presence of things that hit hard, and Ludicolo's defenses were decent enough to survive them, but that left him usually pretty beat up. In short, the support he provided just wasn't good enough to really cut it.

However, I'm beginning to think that my decision wasn't so bad. Kingler has been much better than I ever would have imagined as he fills a role that I needed very much: a hard hitter. Swampert is too slow and Bulkydos requires a bit too much setup to be able to come outright and do a lot of damage. Crabhammer is great, though I wish it had better accuracy. I was considering putting more EVs into Speed for this guy, but as of right now he has enough to outrun max speed base 90s.

Vaporeon@Leftovers
Bold, 252 HP, 188 DEF, 68 SPA
-Ice Beam
-Protect
-Surf
-Wish

I have replaced Haze with Surf, but now that makes me skeptical as to whether or not Haze was necessary. I haven't encountered any big problems there yet.

Empoleon@Choice Specs
Modest, 6 HP, 252 SPA, 252 SPD
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot
-Hidden Power Electric

As of late, I haven't been using Empoleon. Although his resistances are great, I just can't get over how damn slow he is. I have been running a standard SpecStar in his place, though I think that may be a mistake. Any thoughts on this?

Electivire@Expert Belt
Adamant, 6 HP, 252 ATK, 252 SPD
-Thunderpunch
-Ice Punch
-Cross Chop
-Earthquake

! I know what you're thinking: this guy isn't Water! Well, after suggestion by Hippodown 90210, I decided to go ahead and give Electivire a shot. After all, I was completely fed up with things with Electric and Grass attacks coming all up in my grill and destroying my team. Unfortunately, I have to say that this does make my team technically not mono-water anymore, but for competition's sake, I like to imagine that this Electivire wears swim trunks.

I also realize that this opens the floodgate for suggestions for other non-Water Pokemon. However, I would like to keep the team strictly mono-Water with the exception of this. Please do not suggest any non-Water Pokemon unless they replace Electivire and have a good enough rapport with the rest of the team.

Anyway, he does fare well and counters a lot of things that would switch in on my other Pokemon, being able to absorb Electric. A Motor Drive boost gives him enough speed to outspeed the vast majority of things.

Thanks if you post.

EDIT: Added Threat List.

Tyranitar: Swampert, [Starmie], Vaporeon, Kingler!
Gyarados: Swampert, Electivire
Infernape: Swampert, Gyarados, Vaporeon, [Starmie].
Skarmory: Electivire, [Starmie]
Azelf: I haven't seen a lot of them still, and I still haven't really figured out a decent counter.
Rhyperior: Swampert, [Starmie], Vaporeon
Electivire: Swampert
Heracross: Swampert, Gyarados (sorta).
Salamence: Vaporeon, Empoleon.
Togekiss: Vaporeon, Electivire, [Starmie].
Gengar: Swampert (if no Grass Knot), Vaporeon, Empoleon.
Garchomp: Vaporeon, Swampert, Gyarados [kinda], [Starmie], Electivire [Kinda].
Raikou: Electivire
Lucario: Gyarados, Swampert, Starmie.
Starmie: Electivire.
Weavile: Gyarados, Swampert.
Dugtrio : Gyarados, Swampert, Vaporeon.
Alakazam: Vaporeon, [Starmie], Empoleon.
PorygonZ: Swampert.
Medicham: Swampert, Gyarados.
Staraptor: Swampert, Gyarados.
Slowbro: Electivire, Starmie.
Jolteon: Swampert, Electivire.
Aerodactyl: Swampert.
Snorlax: Gyarados, Electivire.
Zapdos: Swampert.
Blissey: Electivire
Suicune: Gyarados, Swampert, Electivire, [Starmie].
Sceptile: Gyarados, Empoleon.
Ninjask: Gyarados, Vaporeon, Electivire
Metagross: Gyarados, Swampert.
Celebi: Gyarados, Electivire.
Jirachi: Gyarados, Swampert, Electivire.

 

[Elvenstein]

I really don't like the use of Vaporeon. Swampert could just as easily be a hazer. I'd use CM Slowbro over Vaporeon personally.

 

[CWW]

Tentacruel is pretty awesome with Liquid Ooze and Rapid Spin to counter Leech Seed, because Subseeding Sceptile sweeps mono Water teams. Believe me, I know. Tentacruel can do a number on it too with STAB Poison Jab/Sludge Bomb. And it can learn Haze, Knock Off, Toxic Spikes, Screech, Confuse Ray, lol Acupressure. Generally cool utility poke, though that Defense is a problem. Same with Vape anyway. That 100 Base Speed is very nice on the other hand. Try it out.

 

[tofurkey]

General update to the team. Added Tentacruel in place of Vaporeon and changed some movesets around a bit to help out some weak areas.

 

[tofurkey]

A pretty big problem came up while I was going through my team again.

Azelf is a big threat, even with the addition of Mirror Coat Tentacruel, which gets 2HKO'd by Psychic :(. I tried some damage tests running Crunch on Feraligatr, but it can't OHKO with 1 DD just because Azelf's defenses aren't that shabby. Azelf learning Calm Mind is no smaller threat. I thought about Choice Scarf Sharpedo, but his ability to come in is somewhat limited because his defenses are piss poor. However, his STAB Crunch does 93-100%. He unfortunately does not learn Pursuit.

Any ideas for countering Azelf?

 

[Pokézoni]

Any ideas for countering Azelf?

I'm using a Milotic w/ maxed HP/Sp. Def and Light Screen Support.

But there is absolutely nothing a mono-water can do to counter a CSpecs or Life-Orb'd Grass rope Azelf... in fact, there's not much to counter Azelf generally.

 

[Tinnacious]

Ooh, I'm using a Mono-water team too and yes, Azelf is a bit of a pain in the butt to deal with. But if you have predictions, you can come in on a Scheme with this and rape Azelf up it's butt.

Since my Water team centralizes around Rain Dancing, I used this guy.

Azumarill@Choice Band
Adamant

Aqua Tail
Aqua Jet
Return
Sleep Talk

Since it's raining, or suppose to be raining and always should be raining, STAB + Rain + CB + 436 Attack will make Aqua Jet looks godly. So come in on a Scheme and smack that bitch Azelf around.

 

[tofurkey]

Changed a few things around. Please re-RMT :O

 

[CT20]

Well I lost to this team, so I have to say its good(Well when my team has Specmence, which failed horribly).

I would put Taunt on your Gyarados, Taunting the Tangrowth that comes in from using Sleep Powder or Leech Seed can really ruin it as a counter.

You probably want Empoleon somewhere here, you need a Normal/Flying resist.

We should rebattle sometime, my new team is looking good.

 

[Brawley]

You could replace surf with aqua ring on Lanturn.

 

[tofurkey]

Yeah, Taunt helps a lot more than I thought it did, I guess. I'll be glad to battle you again after I finish breeding.

Empoleon always looked like a nice idea with good resists and such, but I don't know what place he'd have on my team. I don't feel like a Normal/Flying resist is really necessary, or at least not necessary enough to replace someone else on the team.

Why Aqua Ring on Lanturn, exactly?

 

[tofurkey]

Still waiting on a response as to why Aqua Ring on Lanturn, also, is Empoleon necessary/where could it go in?

I feel like my team is lacking in offensive power a little bit with spongy Ludicolo, Vaporeon, Swampert, and Lanturn but at the same time I can't give up those without giving up valuable resists. Is this fine in DP's hyper-offensive metagame, or should I rework things?

 

[Pirate]

Choice Specs Salamence just drops your team as a whole. You have NO resistance to it nor any real special wall. I think you considered Lantern a special wall when its really something to take the pressure off from the main wall.

Other than that I think you need some poke who just hits hard in replace of someone like Ludicolo for someone who hits hard but is generally bulky I dont know someone like Slaking or Rhyperior.

 

[Steinhauser]

I'm pretty sure Draco Meteor is a 3HKO on Ludicolo, who can Ice Beam back for a OHKO.

 

[Pirate]

On max Spdef/Hp Ludicolo it could BARELY scratch off with min/min/slight avg damage but with your evs its 2hko.

 

[tofurkey]

Draco Meteor isn't a 2HKO on Vaporeon, who can OHKO with Ice Beam. I guess essentially that sacrifices Vaporeon, but I wouldn't say that CSmence completely wrecks my team.

Also, getting rid of Ludicolo means getting rid of Leech Seed support and valuable resists. Rhyperior and Slaking aren't Water, which is the whole point of the theme in the first place, and to my knowledge there isn't a whole lot else like them.

 

[Pirate]

CSMence 2/3hits vaporeon its a bounce back between those two so its not trustable and that same mence will be back to hurt and with that you loose a lot of wish support.

I guess you could consider Manaphy. Now cmon I know its a toss up but from the looks of it your team takes a lot of hits and doesn't do enough back it doesn't even wear down the the opposition that much. The team is full of a bunch of borderline damage absorbers (not really tanks) in a generation that does a huge amount of damage and one of the things that could really give you a last-able yet very very strong sweeper is well, Manaphy.

Not only that but CB Tar will crunch his way through the whole team and the only think that could possibly go for a 3kho is the Swampert who will get 3khod only if Tar rolls min damage each time and Im not even sure if the damage you return will kill him before he kills you. Now you could say that is somewhat of a risk but you're already risking vap/swampert. To make it easier on you, you could just add more defense but that will still most likely get you killed first and the only possible thing you could do is attempt the revenge kill.I dont know if there a water-pursuiters.

You are also sweeped by Jolteon and CM Raikou and opposing Gyarados (Considering yours lacks Stone Edge)

CB Tar,Specs Mence, and Gyarados on on like every team. EVERY TEAM

OR you can consider Empoleon now not only covering that CBTar hole but also patching up CSMence weak and considering you have AMPLE support on this team he could serve your team very well. Say in place of someone like Lanturn

 

[Shank]

Replace Lanturn, he is absolute crap anything with earthquake completely and utterly destroys him, not to mention that earthquake is one of the most common physical attacks.

 

[tofurkey]

Added an Empoleon to the team, though I'm somewhat skeptical about the set. Any opinions?

 

[CT20]

Pirate, I think you are really theory playing because this team has faired well against my Specsmence.

Sleep Talk fails after the first use on a Choice User, so you might want to use something else on Empoleon.

 

[Puma Italia]

How can you detirmine what Hidden Power it is?

 

[Pirate]

Pirate, I think you are really theory playing because this team has faired well against my Specsmence.

Sleep Talk fails after the first use on a Choice User, so you might want to use something else on Empoleon.

Well I guess I am but I'm not too fond of risk ): especially on mono teams your specs mence may had that bad luck but ah I guess you're right.

 

[Zacharian]

Lesee, your team could use Poliwrath (Resists Tyranitar, opposing Water, Ice, Dark, Rock, Ground types). You seem to have no fighting type...

 

[tofurkey]

Lesee, your team could use Poliwrath (Resists Tyranitar, opposing Water, Ice, Dark, Rock, Ground types). You seem to have no fighting type...

If Poliwrath resisted Ground, I probably wouldn't have any doubts about using it.

With Empoleon now, I have some more coverage for Tyranitar's attacks so it's not quite as big of an issue as it was before. I've thought about using Poliwrath, but its stats are just too sub-par, and plus, the types that it does resist aren't really ones that I have big problems with. Hence why I wanted to use Kingdra instead, since it comes in a little easier on Grass and Electric attacks.

It's true that I don't have any fighting attacks, but the primary Pokemon that I would use a fighting attack on would be Blissey. An Adamant Poliwrath can't even do 50% with Brick Break to Blissey unboosted, and even then, it takes 3 attack boots for it to even have a chance to OHKO it.

I'm still relatively inexperienced in D/P, so I don't know how big of a factor sleep would be (Hypnosis on Poliwrath). If I'm missing something in my thought process, tell me, but at the moment I don't think that Poliwrath is the best fit.

 

[Hippowdon_90210]

@Gyarados
I'll join the bandwagon and suggest a standard set:

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 220 HP / 16 Attack / 180 Defense / 100 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Attack, -Special Attack)
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Stone Edge is more of a personal preference of mine, although Ice Fang would work equally well.

@Swampert
My general set is this:

Swampert @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
Impish Nature (+Defense, -Special Attack)
- Earthquake
- Avalanche
- Stealth Rock
- Rest / Protect

It's just a personal preference of mine.

@Ludicolo
I'd suggest something more like a Rain Dancer to support your team a little bit. There are two different movesets that work with this, depending on if you want to be more offensive or defensive.

Ludicolo @ Leftovers / Damp Rock
Trait: Swift Swim
Modest Nature (+Special Attack, -Attack)
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Leech Seed
- Rain Dance

Ludicolo @ Leftovers / Damp Rock
Trait: Rain Dish
Calm Nature (+Special Defense, -Attack)
- Dive
- Rain Dance
- Leech Seed
- Toxic

@Vaporeon
For Effort Values, I'd suggest 252 HP / enough Special Attack to OHKO Salamence, Garchomp and Gliscor / remaining in Defense. Also, instead of Protect, you may want to consider Baton Pass, Toxic or Surf.

@Empoleon
This is fine, although if you decide to go with my Kingdra suggestion (see below), I think that more of a supporter would be best.

@Kingdra
I suppose that this set is fine. However, I would also consider using the following:

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Trait: Swift Swim
Modest Nature (+Special Attack, -Attack)
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Surf

For general comments, I would say that possibly breaking the Mono-Water theme and adding an Electivire could be an extremely good idea. There's definitely not going to be a lack of electric attacks aimed at this team, so it may be a good idea to take advantage of that.

Hope this helps, good luck.