Monotype Viability Rankings

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Time to stop procrastinating and do this!

Kyurem-B (Dragon) -> S Rank

See DM's post

Volcarona (Bug) -> S Rank

See DMs post

Armaldo (Bug) -> A Rank

See Zulkaz's post

Forretress (Bug) -> A Rank

See Zulkaz's post

Mega Heracross (Bug) -> A Rank

See Zulkaz's post

Lando-I (Flying) = S Rank

It is still amazing, and Lando-T doesn't change anything since they have different roles. Depending on what you need, Lando can rip apart certain monos depending on its moveset. Because of that, Sae and I have decided to keep it S Rank. Lets quote Sae here: "If a generic scrub like Arifeen is using it again after talking about double dance LandoT then it still must be S."

Conkeldurr (Fighting) = A Rank

Both Sae and I decided that it shouldn't be moved up since it gained nothing. It's still slow, and it still can't touch Fairies if it doesn't run Poison Jab. Its main niche was a Swift Swim check, but that died off along with Dank Rock.

Scrafty (Fighting) -> C Rank

It may be immune to Psychic, but it's still a meh option in a type like Fighting (Fighting gets Mega Gallade as well now, and that gets Knock Off + a neutrality to Psychic). Also, a lot of Psychic types carry Fighting / Fairy coverage moves making it extremely hard to set up.

Hawlucha (Fighting) -> B Rank

Mega Gallade has rendered a lot of Hawlucha's jobs useless. Psycho Cut + Close Combat destroy Grass, while its speed lets it outspeed everything in Fighting except Hawlucha (lol) and scarfed Fighting types. However, Hawlucha is still Fighting's main Sticky Web / Bug slayer which is why it only moved down one rank.

Sableye (Ghost) -> B Rank

See N64Lord's post

Whimsicott (Grass) -> C Rank

See N64Lord's post. It's not that good since its only niche is a fast T-wave & Prankster weather.

Azelf (Psychic) -> A Rank

One of the best suicide leads ever with Taunt, Stealth Rock and Explosion. Great coverage moves as well in the form of Ice Beam and Flamethrower. It's also one of the only reasons why HO Psychic is a thing. It can also be a fast suicide Screener. Overall, it makes a great partner to SD Mega Gallade who is one of Monotype's premier threats.

Trevenant (Grass) -> C Rank

Trev offers nothing to grass teams except a spin blocker. However, most teams use Defog. It's not B Rank material anyways.

Murkrow (Flying) -> D Rank

It's so fun to use, but it's outclassed by a ton of other stuff. Since Flying is gifted with some of the best mons, it's a waste to put something like Murkrow

Jellicent (Ghost) -> B Rank

Supports Mega Sableye immensely well. Water Absorb prevents Water users from spamming Hydro Pump or Scald. It has great special defensive stats to back it up too.

Gyarados (Flying) -> B Rank

Personally feel like C Rank's a little too low for this guy. Dragon Dance + Moxie is still scary asf, and you can carry an item unlike its Mega form.

Alakazm (Psychic) -> B Rank

Psychic has a ton of extremely good special attackers, and without a boosting item Alakazm is quite weak. Magic Guard is its main niche, but Psychic has one of the most reliable Hazard Removers / Heal Bellers in the form of Mew.

Salamence (Dragon) -> C Rank

It's gotten pretty bad ever since XY, and almost every team has a reliable answer to this before it sets up.

Stuff that's debatable

Meloetta (Psychic) A -> S

I'm fine with this moving up since it's pretty good. But it's debatable

Removed Mega Mawile (Steel & Fairy) because it tried to eat Mantyke :(

Anyways, any comments, concerns, or changes? Tell me now :3
 
I don't understand how something is easier to offensively check if it outspeeds the potential check and can potentially bop it with a move before the check even moves, compared to Medicham who is simply outsped and KOed, plus the fact Gallade might get to attack twice against the likes of Landorus due to its greater bulk meaning it can actually survive an Earth Power, whereas Medi wouldn't even get an attack in unless it could still use Fake Out. Your replay does back up your point somewhat, but I'd have the counter argument that Ground, in particular your team as you use Scarfed Garchomp meaning Gallade virtually has no chance of sweeping as it can tank one hit from anything but Exca provided it's reasonably healthy (80%+) and remove them(which again, Medi couldn't) but would then fall prey to the other. Medi is kinda just constantly forced out against this team, while Gallade is a guaranteed kill once Hippo takes like 20% damage (this is obviously all assuming you run Ice Punch, will I personally think is the best set). I still think Medi < Gallade does more work, but yeah it has it's limitations.

Meloetta(Psychic) -> S Rank
Running it's now trademark Assault Vest set, this is a huge boon for Psychic teams, able to switch into the likes of Gengar who would otherwise cause massive damage every time it came in on something it could outspeed and KO, which is to say most of a Psychic team. Not running this means you give up significant team synergy and makes anything with a moderately powerful Shadow Ball a huge threat to you. It's been a very long time since I've seen a successful Psychic team not running Meloetta which just shows how good it is.

This is my original reasoning for Melo, and not much has changed apart from I've seen quite a few other sets running around to good effect, I've seen a Leftovers set which can therefore afford to run Heal Bell to support the Bulkier team archetype of Psychic, while still having great Special bulk and slightly more Physical bulk. There's also a Specs set that's getting popular, it's really quite deceptively powerful and a lot of teams struggle to switch into it well, thanks to Psyshock messing up Special walls. While it doesn't carry quite as much bulk as other sets, it still dissuades the opponent from spamming Shadow Ball which essentially means Meloetta is doing it's job for your Psychic team.

Final thing, I don't have the time to test atm, but someone should snap up Serperior now it has Contrary, while I still don't think it's that amazing due to having problems against Steel, Flying and Fire while not adding mych to the mirror matchup, it's incredibly hard to deal with for Water and Ground teams, and can almost be used to secure an auto-win against those types.
 
Just wondering, is Mega Gardevoir written up yet? If not I would like to reserve it.

May double post if I have something I disagree about with the above posts.
 
Serperior for B Rank on Grass

Approved by Anttya

Pros:
- 130 BP STAB that gives a free Nasty Plot boost
- Loves Sticky Web
- Very fast (outspeeds non-scarf Lati@s, Terrakion, Keldeo, and Thundurus, as well as Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, Mega Gallade, and Mega Lati@s)

Cons:
- Very limited coverage
- Needs a couple of boosts to be effective (75 SpA is pretty low)
- Will be walled by something no matter what it does
- Bad Grass-only typing (gives it 5 weaknesses, all of which it shares with its teammates)
- Very predictable--it can really only run one set
- Doesn't help grass in too many matchups

Set:

Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Hidden Power [Ground]
- Giga Drain/Knock Off/Glare/Taunt/Frenzy Plant

Set Description:
This is really the only set Serperior can run. Leaf Storm is mandatory because it is amazing with Contrary--it gives you a free Nasty Plot while nailing the opponent with a 130 Base Power move with STAB. Dragon Pulse is the only other viable non-Hidden Power special move Serperior has access to. The third slot is your Hidden Power. Fire is the main slash to hit the Steel types that would otherwise wall you, but leaves you walled by Heatran. It does have perfect neutral coverage outside of Heatran, however. HP Ground lets you hit Heatran, but leaves you walled by Skarmory. The 4th move is where you start to tell that Serperior's movepool is limited. Giga Drain can be used for recovery, but is only really useful against a few types. Knock Off is there only for its utility in removing items, as Serperior's attack is as bad as its special attack, and isn't boosted by Leaf Storm. Glare is neat as it can paralyze Ground-types, but overall you should just spam Leaf Storm against Ground teams. It is useful in some matchups however, if you want Skymin to sweep after Serperior is gone. Taunt makes it a great anti-lead with its incredible speed, and can also Taunt support Latias, even if it runs full speed. I used Frenzy Plant for a while because it is a cool last ditch effort either against their last Pokemon or before the LO recoil kills you, or if you know they will kill you right afterwards and want to put a dent in them. It can also be used in disadvantageous match-ups to hopefully nab a KO, so Serperior is not total dead meat. A 150 BP STAB move is nothing to be scoffed at. Life Orb is the item to hit hard while not being choice locked. The whole point to Serperior is to get boosts with Leaf Storm then kill stuff with that, Dragon Pulse, or Hidden Power. Choice items means that it can't set up against teams like Dragon, and it needs the SpA boost from Leaf Storm to do any severe damage.

Why B Rank?
While Serperior performs its role as a Contrary Leaf Storm spammer well, its typing, frailty, and limited movepool forces it out against many Pokemon. It struggles against Steel (Heatran), Flying (Togekiss, both Scarf and paraflinchax), Bug (Mega Beedrill, Scarfcross, Volcarona), Fire (Heatran, Mega Char Y, Volcarona, if HP Fire, and Mega Char Y walls if HP Ground), Normal (Mega Pidgeot, Scarfraptor, or Toxic stall), and Grass mirror matches (Mega Venusaur) among others. It only shines against monos weak to Leaf Storm, such as Water, Ground, and Rock, which Grass should usually beat anyway. It can also somewhat help against Fairy, who has Diancie and Azumarill (both weak to Grass) but only if Togekiss is gone, and hopefully Klefki as well. It needs support (everything resistant to Grass eliminated, as well as fast threats), which can sometimes be hard to give, it can check some Pokemon that are specially frail, or neutral to Grass (for example, it outspeeds non-Scarf Garchomp, and can KO after some prior damage, then hurt the other Dragons with +2 Dragon Pulse), and it is very dependent on the type matchup. It is great against Water, Rock, and Ground, and can help against Dragon and Fairy to an extent after a couple Pokemon are gone, but is hardwalled by Steel, Flying, Fire, and Bug. It has a hard time adapting to the metagame because of its limited movepool, so C Rank could be argued, but its primary niche is unique, and can be good in a few type matchups after it boosts.
 
Should Volcarona (Fire) be moved up from B to A? This is Boss's post on it.

Hey guys, this is Elite Four Boss. For some reason I can’t post on the forums, so I got someone to upload this for me. Anyway, I am an avid fire user and I am currently #2 in the MMC standings. I wanted to see how well fire stacked up, and that is all I have used lately. I would like to nominate Volcarona for A-Rank on fire. I believe volcarona is a valuable asset to many teams. Fire teams often are weak to the stall power of psychic or dark, and volcarona provides an excellent check. After one quiver dance an offensive volcarona can create havoc on an opponent’s team. I am currently running an offensive volcarona with the following set:

Volcarona @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Roost / Hidden Power Ground / Giga Drain

As you can see this is not the volcarona you often see. However, it has an excellent niche on my fire team. It provides power against psychic and dark, two teams very prominent and difficult to face. I run roost over hp-ground, because it allows me to set up more against weaker mons that cannot deal much damage. I also run the lum berry to avoid those pesky prankster mons. This works very well against many counters to volcarona. As you can see I am also very unorthodox because I chose to run swarm instead of flame body. At first this may seem to be a mistake, but when you consider how often flame body will actually help a match it makes more sense. Here are some examples of why I run swarm.

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 226-267 (66.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO this is without swarm.
+1 252 SpA Swarm Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 339-399 (99.4 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO After swarm.

This is psychic’s biggest check against volcarona and with max speed, volcarona will face a speed tie against scarf victini and be able to easily ko banded ones.
Well how do I get swarm to work. Well swarm allows volcarona to set up against many mons that otherwise would be poor choices, such as mega gardevoir.
252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 222-262 (71.3 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This easily activates swarm and allows volcarona to wreak havoc on an opposing psychic team. However volcarona has plenty other niches. It can provide an effective late game sweeper against many teams, and because of roost it can often recover hp against a pokemon such as zapdos. A defensive volcarona also has many benefits and many times it is beneficial to run flame body. Volcarona has so many uses that it should always be considered as part of a fire team. Although it is 4x weak to SR, it should be noted that most fire mons are already 2x weak to SR, and fire does not spend very much time switching around. Volcarona also has accesss to hp-ground to allow for more coverage if that is more desireable than recovery. Volcarona can be adapted to many team’s playstyles and serve different roles in each. That stated it is highly recommended that a person runs a defogger or spinner (torkoal) on their fire team. Here are some additional calcs.

+1 252 SpA Swarm Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 195-229 (65.6 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Some nice damage against char X allowing a fletchinder, entei, or scarf mon to pick up the KO. Also has a chance to KO after SR assuming it already mega’ed
+2 252 SpA Swarm Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 226-267 (69.9 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO This is after dragonite looses multiscale. Ex) After Stealth rock there is a decent chance to ko.
The point of these calcs is to show the advantage and power of swarm.
Even after SR volcarona can still set up on or force out many pokemon.

Zapdos Thunderbolt 38.5 - 45.6%
Slowbro Scald 27 - 32.7%(After 1 QD)

This is why I believe volcarona is a very valuable asset to a fire team, it is one of the few set up sweepers, very versatile, and powerful.
Thanks for your time and check out some of my replays with fire. Type in Elite Fur Boss or Elite F@ur Boss.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/frost-monotype-1326309
(Volc getting set up in the rain. Miss didn’t really matter b/c it would have activated swarm.)
 
I nominate Mega-Pidgeot to E rank (Flying) and B rank (normal)
Mega_pidgeot.png
Sorry for too big

I know Pidgeot isnt who your mega is gonna be, in Flying it sucks. There you want more? Compound Eyes Vivillon does better hurricanes and Charizard Y does better Heat Waves
That is the sole purpose of Pidgeot-Mega, to land Hurricanes and Heat Waves with his ability No Guard...

On Normal its one of a kind, but is outclassed by the other normal mega, mega lopunny allows to hit aegislash and sableye with scrappy HJK and Mega Audino does better against Fight being Normal/Fairy (lets face it, wigglytuff sucks)

Bird Jezus @Pidgeotite
Ability: No Guard
EV's: 252SpA, 252 Speed, 4HP
Modest Nature
-Hurricane
-Heat Wave
-Roost
-U-turn/HP Ground/Defog

Pidgeot-Mega has a decent amount of Speed, allowing it to OHKO or 2HKO almost everyone, Hurricane is the mandatory STAB here, and it deals 110BP, will always land(No Guard), Heat Wave allows to screw over some annoyers of Steel like Scizor of Skarmory. Roost allows it to stay in the field to deal more Hurricanes. The last one can be the following; U-turn allows it to lure guys like Garvantula and switch out to a better check like Diggersby or Gliscor. Defog support can be a nice touch in flying teams but there are better defogers like skarm. HP Grournd allows it to Super-Eff hit Rock and Electric and could easily be ready for 1vs1.

As what for teammates go, you will need a Sticky Web support, to endure that pidgeot will be faster than most threads, a Ground type to sponge those electric type attacks, and a fighting/steel type for Rock and Ice

Overall Pidgeot-Mega is great but when compared with other Mega its bad, but when this guy gets focus blast then were talking S or A rank
 
I think you've been quite harsh in your overall rankings of Pidgeot to be quite honest, I could maybe live with B on Normal team but I think the niche of being able to KO every non-scarfed Fighting type with the exception of Terrakion gives it a lot of potential on these teams. As for Flying yeah there's a lot of other Mega's you'd use ahead of it, but E is reserved for Shedinja level threats, and I feel Pidgeot deserves more than that. Again it can help in Fighting matchups, which ironically is one that Flying can struggle with, as Anttya mentioned before. Also it provides quite the devastating U-Turn combination with Landorus-Therian, who can take out many of the threats Pidgeot struggles with and vice versa. Also Neither Flying not Normal gets access to (viable) Sticky Webs setters, so that sentence doesn't make sense, particularly when it outspeeds most of the unbooosted tier.
 
Alvaro Vargas said:
I nominate Mega-Pidgeot to E rank (Flying) and B rank (normal)
View attachment 34035 Sorry for too big

I know Pidgeot isnt who your mega is gonna be, in Flying it sucks. There you want more? Compound Eyes Vivillon does better hurricanes and Charizard Y does better Heat Waves
That is the sole purpose of Pidgeot-Mega, to land Hurricanes and Heat Waves with his ability No Guard...

On Normal its one of a kind, but is outclassed by the other normal mega, mega lopunny allows to hit aegislash and sableye with scrappy HJK and Mega Audino does better against Fight being Normal/Fairy (lets face it, wigglytuff sucks)

Bird Jezus @Pidgeotite
Ability: No Guard
EV's: 252SpA, 252 Speed, 4HP
Modest Nature
-Hurricane
-Heat Wave
-Roost
-U-turn/HP Ground/Defog

Pidgeot-Mega has a decent amount of Speed, allowing it to OHKO or 2HKO almost everyone, Hurricane is the mandatory STAB here, and it deals 110BP, will always land(No Guard), Heat Wave allows to screw over some annoyers of Steel like Scizor of Skarmory. Roost allows it to stay in the field to deal more Hurricanes. The last one can be the following; U-turn allows it to lure guys like Garvantula and switch out to a better check like Diggersby or Gliscor. Defog support can be a nice touch in flying teams but there are better defogers like skarm. HP Grournd allows it to Super-Eff hit Rock and Electric and could easily be ready for 1vs1.

As what for teammates go, you will need a Sticky Web support, to endure that pidgeot will be faster than most threads, a Ground type to sponge those electric type attacks, and a fighting/steel type for Rock and Ice

Overall Pidgeot-Mega is great but when compared with other Mega its bad, but when this guy gets focus blast then were talking S or A rank
Click to expand...
You are right when you say Pidgeot's outclassed by Flying's other megas, but it still has its niches. One is demolishing Fighting monos with Lando-T (As Acast mentioned) and the other is being Anti-Steel (Ferro + Heatran are a pain to deal with), letting you run something other than Heat Wave / Flamethrower on Zapdos and Togekiss respectively. Another is its speed. With it, Pidgeot can scout and U-turn out safely (something Viv and Zard can't do). Its speed lets it outspeed all of the new megas which is a plus as well. However, it's still outclassed and pretty frail making it hard to get in so I'd say B-C rank is more fitting. As for its set, I'd run something like this:

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Tangled Feet
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature (Modest if it can outspeed 110s. On mobile so I don't feel like calcing)
-Hurricane
-Heat Wave
-Hidden Power Ground
-U-turn / Roost / Substitute

I put the 4 leftovers into defense instead of HP because it lets Pidgeot switch into rocks 5 times opposed to 4.
Obv Hurricane + Heat Wave is mandatory for STAB and steels
HP Ground is also mandatory since it hits Heatran for Super Effective damage who'd otherwise wall you.
U-turn is for scouting, Roost for roosting, and Sub is for easing predictions. Heat Wave forces a lot of switches so expect to get a lot of free subs (At the cost of losing health)

Get rid of the stuff about it being on Normal types, sticky Web, and change its ranking to B or C and I'll put it up there. (If you're not too sure about your write ups feel free to pm them to Sae Sae and Anttya and we'll happily help you improve them)
 
Yeah people if you're going to nominate things, don't nominate something after it's been done and discussed after like three times. If you think the rank is wrong, just write in arguments. If you think it hasn't been done because it's not in the OP, there's a nifty search bar near the top right corner of the page which allows you to check words within this particular forum. This is like the 2nd/3rd time someone's nominated Mega Pidgeot Alvaro Vargas and the second time someone's put it at E rank for Flying which I completely don't understand. Not mad at you since you're probably new based on your post count, but lurking does help on any forum. It'd also make Anttya's and my life a bit easier trying to organize this.


Anyway I might as well do this since nobody really bothers to use this thing besides me and a few others. Doesn't change the fact that its useful and one of the keystones to my Troll Ice team.

Cryogonal for B Rank:

cryogonal.gif

Standard Rapid Spin
Cryogonal @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Freeze-Dry
- Toxic/Hidden Power Ground/Hidden Power Rock
- Recover

This will probably be your go to set if you're using Cryogonal. Crogonal isn't meant to take a hit on this set, but it does live a few weak hits thanks to it's nice special def of 135. The real reason to use Cryogonal is that it fits better on offensively based Ice teams due to its speed of 105. When I say offensive, I mean towards hazard stacking Froslass, Cloysters, Kyurem formes, etc. The goal of this thing is just to come in and spin hazards, and then allow you to send in something like your Cloyster or Kyurem for the grand sweep later on. Freeze-Dry lets it take on things like Swampert better so you can Rapid Spin, Toxic helps in situations where you're against a wall and can afford to Toxic+Recover stall. Hidden Power is an option I guess, but if you're struggling with Steel/Fire then Avalugg is better for tanking Steels.

The only notable calcs would be if it's holding a Life Orb. This takes away its job as a Spinner but if you want a lure set here you go.:
  • 252 SpA Life Orb Cryogonal Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 192-229 (49.8 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    • Heatran or Ferrothorn will be the go to switch normally against Cryogonal so a LO HP Ground can do half once it switches in. Still kind of useless against Ferrothorn because even if you ran HP Fire then Heatran walls you.
  • 252 SpA Life Orb Cryogonal Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 244-291 (82.1 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    • You outrun Mega Charizard Y with your nice 105 base speed so you can OHKO it after rocks. If you don't have rocks up you can just opt to take this as an opportunity to spin hazards off your side of the field.


Dual Screens Spinner
Cryogonal @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Rapid Spin
- Freeze-Dry
This set still helps with setting up sweeps like the other set, but it has less versatility. Dual Screens + Spin immensely helps Cloyster setup among other things. Only sad thing is it is outrun by most common anti-lead/Taunt users like Azelf, Aerodactyl, Froslass, etc. It's probably the only real user of Dual Screens on Ice next to Rotom-F.


Okay here's the actual reasons why it's niche is still valid and my reason for it being C-rank.

Pros:
  • It has a really nice base 105 Speed allowing it to spin against a lot of things including your common base 100 speed mons.
    • This is really helpful as it gives it more opportunities to spin on say a Fire team than Avalugg or Articuno.
  • Fits well with hazard stacking and offensively built Ice teams. Sacking this after it performs its job can lead to a lot of momentum.
  • Freeze-Dry allows it to take on bulky waters that would like to setup on it.
  • Really nice Special Def stat which can allow it to come in on weaker neutral hits and either Recover or Rapid Spin away.
Negatives:
  • It is not the tank Articuno is, nor is it the go to spinner like Avalugg is. Even with a higher Special Def stat, Cryogonal's base HP makes it worse than Articuno to fit on balanced teams as they'd prefer Articuno to either be a wall or a Defogger. Avalugg is the best hazard remover for good reason as it can tank a lot of the matchups Ice is commonly weak to.
  • Cryogonal usually is death fodder against a team that either A) doesn't setup in hazards or B) has a Steel type.
  • It has a base 95 Special Atk and 105 Spe which is alright, but it lacks overall coverage to even attempt making a purely offensive spinner for a meta like Monotype.
Team Partners:
  • Cloyster is without a doubt one of the best partners for Cryogonal. Cryogonal preserves the sash on Cloyster, and once it is foddered gives the free switch into Cloyster so it can setup.
  • Froslass has the ability to Taunt some mons setting up hazards which makes it easier for Cryogonal so it doesn't have to keep switching in. Also it can Twave Cobalion, or other faster mons that Cryogonal normally wouldn't be able to spin against.
  • Kyurem B: Personally I'd rather use Kyu-B as a partner as Scarf Outrage tears through teams and Kyurem-W prefers Avalugg anyway. Either work, but Cryogonal makes it easier to safely switch into your Scarf Kyu-B thanks to being able to fodder itself and give a free switch.
  • Mammoswine: Helps any ice member period thanks to its typing so it can hit hard both Steels and Fire mons.
Here's also an example replay against a Fire team where Cryogonal is definitely the better hazard remover: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/frost-oumonotype-1069562. It removes hazards and then allows my Kyurem-B to come in.

In conclusion, I personally think that Cryogonal deserves B-rank on Ice teams. It doesn't fit well with balanced Ice teams nor Stall, but on offensively based teams it does its job really well allowing for other teammates to shine.
 
Last edited:
Acast said:
Smeargle (Normal) for D Rank (EDIT: On second thought, it's more suited to C Rank.) credit to All Falls Down for changing my mind
smeargle.gif
Click to expand...

I've used this guy to better effect than that on multiple normal teams.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash / White Herb
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Spore
- Memento

It's a much more complete package than it looks since you aren't required to lead with it but opponets must be prepared for (IE assume) that you will< Of course you can lead with it if their team has somethig that nothing on your team wants to take a hit from but still. It relies on the disabling power of sleep after a wall has come in to ensure his life, but this is arrangable with hard hitters like offensive staraptor, diggerspy, loppunny, the dreaded specs meloeetta, etc, so double switching him after you've safely brought one of these out will A: cripple the opponet's check to them, B: get webs up so their offensive checks Keldeo are also weakened, C: and finally memento straight into one of them (which is a scary thought for balanced teams) As a special bonus, a lot of deffogers tend to be the same physical wall used t block the phyiscal pokemon, so sporing them late(cough mid) game like this is even better for smeargle's own hazards. Even if you don't though, you still have a third option in memento, which can and will end games in your favor.
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Quiver Dance / Shell Smash
- Taunt
- Spore
- Baton Pass

A thing people don't realise about smash pass is that you can actually run the white herb directly on the receipent instead of smeargle if you want to. Obviously, smeargle having a sash eases WHEN you can try it (esp with defog staraptor), but lacks either some power or survivability on the receipent. However, A missing leftovers might not mean much to a pokemon with roost, recover, substitute, and all the receipents are implied to have difficulty setting up on their own anyway. Of course with white herb on smeargle you can do silly stuff like switch into an porygon2 if your premade user can't survive, or switch into specs or assault vest meloetta and autowin againast bulky water. Taunt prevents fairly obvious whirlwind or roar usage and I find it more useful than the reccomended magic coat, especially since opposing taunt users have fallen a bit in monotype or belong to teams with backup plans if you do get them (mew/deoxys). Also deals with t-wave wisp people taking advantage of your increased speed to hit your sweeper AFTER you pass, since they could use it again agaist coat smeargle and don't hurt themselves too much.
Smeargle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Parting Shot
- Healing Wish
- Spore
- Trick

I've only ever seen this on a single Mega Pidgeot team, but it's pretty attention getting. Obviously you both have to switch out if it spores, and if it dosen't lead and waits for a tank to do so, then you don't know it's scarfed until too late, although against an offensive enough team, with plenty pf 110 range timid/jollyies, it really gets to shine.

Smeargle is also rarely used as a check to already set up sweepers, , which typically has a set involving endeavor, but could totally have a heart swap/baton pass/ spore/ nuzzle (sashed again) and specifically be used to check calm mind pokemon and dragon dancers, although most people prefer doing this with ditto if at all, you do cover a wider range this way if you aren't afraid about how defog and staraptor reliant it makes you.

When in doubt, any smeargle can run king's shield over their 4th move (taunt, magic coat, memento) to considerably increase the amount of pokemon they come in on.

So while smeargle is difficult to use, it's difficult to know which method of playing around it is the right one for this an unrevealed smeargle as well, and it sneaks onto teams more easily than almost all the other C rank pokemon (except frosslass ghost, so I think it can move out of C and should be B rank)
 
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Kecleon was done by Gnief Fiar. If you would like to see it, go to the 1st page, scroll down to C Rank, and Kecleon is one of the first Pokemon after the description of C Rank (normal is the first type), just click on the link to see the post. I can't quote it right now for some reason.

EDIT: Wow Ant, snipes, 1 second before I post <.<
 
So as one of the users to really advocate Fletchinder, I have really been looking forward to this post. I am nominating it for B-rank on fire. Fletchinder has quite a few useful niches on a fire team.
It is currently at C-rank
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are only used to check a threat once or twice. These Pokemon often run unorthodox sets since their primary niches are outclassed by other Pokemon. Since they run unorthodox sets some Pokemon can set up on them without fear. These Pokemon need a lot of support (which may be hard to give) for them to function.These Pokemon have a hard time adapting to the metagame.
I feel like fletchling does not have a hard time adapting to the metagame because it fits nicely in with fire's hyper offensive style. Here are its roles that it performs very well.
  1. It provides powerful priority for stopping sweeps.
  2. Provides useful utility aka Tailwind
  3. Can be a late game sweeper when set up right.
Fletchinder
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost/Flamecharge
- Tailwind
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance

This is the set that I am currently running. The HP evs give it a little bulk allowing it to set up on a few weaker things. Ex: Chansey
Priority Tailwind is by far my biggest use for fletchinder. At first this may seem gimmicky, but in fact it is very reliable. Tailwind gives fire 3 turns which can be easily used to clean up or change momentum. Fire is normally highly offensive and my team is no different. Most fire mons can easily outspeed virtually everything with this boost. It is an excellent way to clean up late game. Fletchinder also has many beneficial type matchups. I have found it to be very handy in helping to stop a Belly Drum Azu sweep. Acrobatics normally does around 45-49% which is quite a hefty chunk. Fletchinder also fairs extremely well against bug, fighting, normal, and grass teams. It can easily halt heracross sweeps or other fast sweepers such as scolipede. Also after an SD fletchinder has around a 50% chance to OHKO a scarf terrakion one of fire's biggest nightmares. This is very beneficial to a fire team. This mon takes quite a bit of practice but it definitely has niches which is why B-rank suits it. Fletchinder is starting to catch on and I have seen other fire users using it. This is one mon that is extremely underestimated and I would recommend that you try Fletchinder out before judging too harshly. So finally I am nominating Fletchinder for B-rank because of its ability gale wings, giving it access to priority tailwind and acrobatics. Tailwind is almost always beneficial and Acrobatics is an excellent way to stop sweeps or create your own. Fletchinder may be limited in role, but I believe it does its job very well.
Ii believe it should be B-rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are good but they need support (which may be hard to give) for them to function. These Pokemon are used to check your counters once or twice, meaning that it cannot switch in and out repeatedly. Pokemon in this rank can have a positive type match up sometimes, but they may be useless in others. These Pokemon are adaptable to the metagame.
This seems like the definition of fletchinder. It is adaptable and checks counters, but cannot switch in repeatedly.

Some replays :)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-200684559
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-200149497
As you can see fletchinder has been a large asset many times.
 
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Gym Le@der Boss said:
So as one of the users to really advocate Fletchinder, I have really been looking forward to this post. I am nominating it for B-rank on fire. Fletchinder has quite a few useful niches on a fire team.
  1. It provides powerful priority for stopping sweeps.
  2. Provides useful utility aka Tailwind
  3. Can be a late game sweeper when set up right.
Fletchinder
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost/Flareblitz
- Tailwind
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance

This is the set that I am currently running. The HP evs give it a little bulk allowing it to set up on a few weaker things. Ex: Chansey
Priority Tailwind is by far my biggest use for fletchinder. At first this may seem gimmicky, but in fact it is very reliable. Tailwind gives fire 3 turns which can be easily used to clean up or change momentum. Fire is normally highly offensive and my team is no different. Most fire mons can easily outspeed virtually everything with this boost. It is an excellent way to clean up late game. Fletchinder also has many beneficial type matchups. I have found it to be very handy in helping to stop a Belly Drum Azu sweep. Acrobatics normally does around 45-49% which is quite a hefty chunk. Fletchinder also fairs extremely well against bug, fighting, normal, and grass teams. It can easily halt heracross sweeps or other fast sweepers such as scolipede. Also after an SD fletchinder has around a 50% chance to OHKO a scarf terrakion one of fire's biggest nightmares. This is very beneficial to a fire team. This mon takes quite a bit of practice but it definitely has niches which is why B-rank suits it. Fletchinder is starting to catch on and I have seen other fire users using it. This is one mon that is extremely underestimated and I would recommend that you try Fletchinder out before judging too harshly. So finally I am nominating Fletchinder for B-rank because of its ability gale wings, giving it access to priority tailwind and acrobatics. Tailwind is almost always beneficial and Acrobatics is an excellent way to stop sweeps or create your own. Fletchinder may be limited in role, but I believe it does its job very well.

Some replays :)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-200684559
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-200149497
As you can see fletchinder has been a large asset many times.
Click to expand...
Fletchinder cannot learn Flare Blitz, and we already discussed its ranking in great detail quite a while ago. Eventually we settled on C rank after some heavy debate. Please look at the OP and look for Fletchinder's ranking there.

EDIT: Ah, I see now that you're arguing to raise its rank. Personally, I am strongly in favor of keeping Fletchinder where it's at because back when we initially debated Fletchinder I thought C rank was far too high for it anyway and I really only settled on C because I was getting tired of debating. It simply had no niche other than being a "mini-Talonflame" as Sae mentions in the next post. Your arguments are enough to make me comfortable with Fletchinder at C rank now, but B just seems too high. It does have a nice niche with the Tailwind support, but for now I think C is the best place for it. However, when I get the chance I'll try out your set on my fire team. I have my doubts, but I suppose it wouldn't be very smart of me to argue something without having tried it myself.
 
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Acast said:
Fletchinder cannot learn Flare Blitz, and we already discussed its ranking in great detail quite a while ago. Eventually we settled on C rank after some heavy debate. Please look at the OP and look for Fletchinder's ranking there.
Click to expand...

Well tbf he's trying to move it up, and he's got some interesting replays of it. Actually I kind of want to see how a discussion on Fletchinder would go now. Gym Le@der Boss has been using it lately in OT's to great effect, and originally when it was ranked I don't think many people besides MattLikesHax used it. And also Boss demonstrates the use of a niche that has just been getting popular which is the Tailwind set. Back when it was originally ranked, the idea was that Fletchinder was just mini-Talonflame and would only be used for SD+Acrobatics. It still does this, but Tailwind allows for things like LO Infernape and MegaY to sweep things that normally would outrun it as seen in the replay.

Viability threads do change when the viability of a Pokemon moves up or down due to either meta shifts from things like new games like ORAS or when a new niche has been discovered (in this case Tailwind is now a prevalent use for Fletch). If Fletchinder was being debated between C and D with an average of a C-, now Fletch has the potential to be around a C+ but which does it favor more to either bump up or drop back down?

I'll abstain from deciding right now as I really do want to see if anyone debates this as this is one of the mons which actually has demonstrated an advancement of the metagame with its niche.
 
I haven't used Fire that much (it was the first type I tried and that team was crap lol) but Fletchinder does look like it has the potential to move to B Rank. C Rank states that these Pokemon have trouble adapting to the metagame, but isn't that exactly what Fletchinder has done? Adapted and now found a new niche as a priority Tailwind user? It can't switch in and out repeatedly because of its horrible stealth Rock weakness, but if it can get Tailwind up before going down, that leaves Infernape, Char Y, or even Entei to sweep. It also helps Volcarona set up faster, and after it peeters out, Volcarona can be already at +2 or +3, and then sweep. Volcarona can take more hits if it sets up before the opponent can attack. Fletchinder is a great support mon that fits in the HO playstyle of mono-fire perfectly, with a priority 110 BP STAB, ability to boost, recovery, and offering nice support. As shown in those replays, Fletchinder has the ability to be a neat revenge killer, and gets plenty of opportunity to set up other Pokemon (or even itself) to sweep. Priority is always handy, especially if you don't run hazards. B Rank seems like a good fit for Fletchinder. It appreciates hazard removal, which can be hard for fire, it can sometimes check counters and eliminate weakened threats, but it can't switch in and out repeatedly because of that crippling Stealth Rock weakness. It's never really useless, as if it does face a hard matchup, it simply uses Tailwind to let a teammate wreak havoc. These Pokemon are adaptable to the metagame--that is exactly what Fletchinder has done, finding a new, effective niche, that is unique to it. Therefore, I think it has the potential to be B Rank now that it has found a niche that complements its type and it's type's playstyle perfectly.
 
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