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And before I forget. Tyranitar should be S rank for dark up from... unlisted. It's had a complicated history in this thread of people providing individual sets thinking it had already been written up (due to the rock write up) being reserved, abandoned, and finally given a double review that resulted in it escaping notice of the OP.
If you want something to link, Dark T, has the most direct page on this post
In all honesty, when you fight a dark team, it will probbably have a stealth rocks+fire blast ttar, since the strengths of pokemon like greninja and bisharp should allow them to be the one using offensive pressure, making assaultvest sets far worse than they are on rock monos. Mandibuzz and sableye(even regular) are extremely effective at getting switches even without needing to run dedicated phasing moves, making the constant SR damage important, especially with common sashed and voltturn having limited checks on your average dark team.
Few pokemon can come in on tyranitar to try to set hazards alongside it or defog (hence superiority to say, krookidile) as fire blast + stone edge, even if neither is invested, will chase out all of skarmory/zapdos/ferrothron, etc.
Dragon dance and choice sets work, but require tons of commitment, and don't really define the dark meta: rocks are crucial for a team that has LO users that don't always get the free time to set up, since they'll be X turns away from an OHKO at most times, and if your hazard mon is also a special tank, all the better.
Hedwig (Noctowl) @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Night Shade
This is pretty much Staraptor's Special Defencive Brother and it is made to do the same job It can take Special Hits Decently with 100/96 Defences this might seem wierd but Night Shade is for constent damage on pokemon so you have a way to hurt things (besides normal) this thing is bad against normal but it has a tiny thing of being the only SpDiv Defogger on Normal
To be honest, I don't think Noctowl needs a Rank--it is severely outclassed in pretty much every way. If you REALLY want a special wall with a Fighting neutrality, use Meloetta or Mega Audino. Meloetta, Chansey, Blissey, Porygon2, and Mega Audino outclass it as a special wall. It could be argued that Insomnia makes it a good sleep absorber, but Natural Cure Chansey/Blissey or ResTalk Meloetta do that better. It also doesn't help that it is 2-3HKOed by pretty much every relevant special attacker, meaning it can't switch in and Defog--the whole reason why Staraptor is good is because Intimidate+Feather Dance+Roost allows it to beat many of the dangerous physical Fighting types that threaten Normal teams. Whirlwind is also useless as anything that has boosted will likely kill it. Noctowl is completely outclassed in every niche it could be argued it has, and therefore I believe it can remain unranked.
As for Sunflora, it is completely outclassed by Victreebel. Victreebel does have 5 less Spa, but it has 40 more speed. Even in sun, Sunflora outsped by pretty much everything because of its VERY low base 30 speed. Victreebel also has Weather Ball, which is a more powerful move than HP Fire in Sun. Victreebel also has a better typing and STAB Sludge Wave, as well as a boosting move in growth. Sunflora only niche is Earth Power, which is not enough to giveit aranking, as it is STILL outsped by pretty much everything relevant even in sun, and can't take many hits to either get sun up or to attack. Full Timid speed speed ties with Durant/Heliolisk in Sun, and is outsped by thebase 110s (Lati@s, Mega Metagross/Diancie/Lati@s, Froslass, Gengar, etc.) even in Sunlight and pretty much every Scarfer would outspeed it. So because of its horrible speed even in Sun, it's small bulk, and being completely outclassed by Victreebel, I think that Sunflora can remain unranked.
I've just noticed mega camel is C Rank for Ground, while I can understand at the start of ORAS it wasn't fantastically appealing, I think this needs to be moved up. Suspense recently topped the ladder with a Ground team utilising Mega Camel, and I've had a lot of fun with it too. One of its main niches is that it massively improves your matchup vs Psychic, as nothing wants to switch into it and it's actually pretty close to a complete counter for Mew, which if given the chance, will Wisp stall your entire team(believe me, I still have nightmares x_x). The standard set which relies on Knock Off and Wisp for damage output can't really touch it, while Earth Power does at least 40% and your Fire STAB does even more, meaning it can't stall you out either. It also puts the hurt on Grass and Ice teams, while making you more susceptible to Water teams, but in all honesty, Water is a matchup where you have to play to perfection and still hope for several chokes on your opponents part rippp. If you're looking for a set and spread, I'm on a tablet atm so can't copy paste one but I've been using max Special Attack, Modest with enough Speed to outspeed Slowbro and the set was Wisp / Fire Blast / Earth Power / Ancientpower although Ancientpower is mostly filler so put whatever you want there. Rest of the EVs were in HP.
Moved Mega Altaria to S Rank because as N64Lord said, it's Dragon's main Mega. Dragon immunity + bopping Dark teams are cool too.
Moved based Yung Camel (Mega Camerupt) to B Rank because as DM said, it certainly has its niches as a Ice type + Grass move absorber while bopping Psychic. Unfortunetly the lack of reliable recovery hurts so it only moved up to B.
Keeping Noctowl in E because it's wayyyyyy to sketchy. A majority of stealth rockers are Physical attackers and the special ones still beat Noctowl 1v1 (Heatran, Overheat Infernape, Scald Swampert etc)
Keeping Sunflora in E because you have Victreebell + Venusaur who outclass it in so many ways.
I want more discussion on Thundy-I + Normal T-tar before moving them.
Thundy I is still a big theat to teams, even if it's not as used. Its speed tier beats a lot of offensive mons, and prankster Taunt + T-wave's cool.
Normal t-tar's nice and all, but Mega T-tar's wayyy better since its defenses are better. Another thing is that T-tar's still complete Fighting bait :(
Rank ===> A (Possible S)
Snorlax should definitely be ranked on Mono Normal to A (possible S rank) and surprised it's not on there. I use it plenty of times on my team to know it is indeed good.
CurseLax can be a very crucial win condition while maintaining excellent bulk against special attacks. Return 2HKOs most fail Pokemon as well without the boost. It has the ability Thick Fat, which allows it to take Fire- and Ice-type attacks better. Also Immunity gives it a nice niche against status users of Toxic. Not to mention it gets coverage moves such as Crunch in dealing with Psychic- and Ghost-types. It can be used in conjunction with Trick Room Porygon2 (yes I tested it and it's decent).
Greninja:
This thing is a monster. With proper support and teambuilding it can take a chunk out of anything you want it to. I do not believe it is broken as it can be walled by something no matter what set it runs, but it is still an S Rank threat that must be considered when teambuilding--teams without Scarfers, priority or bulk+status will often find themselves losing because of swag frog. It has a very diverse movepool, decent attacking stats, amazing speed, and an excellent ability in Protean that gives it STAB on everything.
Useful Moves and Items:
Night Slash
Waterfall
Rock Slide
Gunk Shot
Low Kick
Acrobatics
Power-Up Punch
Shadow Sneak
Water Shuriken
Ice Punch
Hydro Pump
Dark Pulse
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Extrasensory
Hidden Power [Fire]
Substitute
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Taunt
Choice Scarf
Choice Specs
Choice Band
Life Orb
Expert Belt
Liechi Berry
Leftovers
Example Sets:
Greninja @ Life Orb/Expert Belt/Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Dark Pulse/Hydro Pump
- Grass Knot/Hidden Power [Fire]
Dark Pulse hits Psychics very hard. Hydro Pump is an option for Heatran, but the rest of your team should have a Water move, so run more coverage imo. Extrasensory hits Mega Venusaur. Ice Beam hits the Flying core hard. HP Fire for Scizor/Forretress/Ferrothorn or Grass Knot for Gastrodon/Quagsire/Swampert, also helps in the mirror matchup.
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Low Kick
- Gunk Shot
- Night Slash/Waterfall/Ice Punch
- Rock Slide/Shadow Sneak/Water Shuriken/Ice Punch
Low Kick is a new move it got with ORAS. It can use it to punish them Steel types for existing. Also hits Chansey decently hard, but misses the 2HKO with Expert Belt or LO. Still does ~40-45% with LO. Murders every Tyranitar ever. Gunk Shot hits Fairies hard, specifically Togekiss and Azumarill, who are very common. Night Slash is a Dark move for killing Psychics or Waterfall hits stuff like Heatran (generally, run the move the rest of your team doesn't get STAB on, so Night Slash on Water, Waterfall on Dark). Shadow Sneak is priority that hits Psychics hard as well or Water Shuriken is priority that can break Subs (kinda weak though, its recommended you don't run it, but it can be cool sometimes c:). Rock Slide or Ice Punch are further coverage options. Ice Punch is also an option over the Dark/Water move if you run Rock Slide in the last slot.
92 EVs guarantees the OHKO with Gunk Shot on Azumarill and Togekiss isrc (if scpinion remembers correctly ;) ). Once again, Ice Beam destroys Flying types. Extrasensory is option 1 in slot 3 for Mega Venusaur, or you can run Low Kick for Steels. Again, the choice between HP Fire and Grass Knot is Gastrodon/Swampert/Quagsire or Ferrothorn/Scizor/Forretress. Low Kick is also an option here, Dark Pulse for Psychic types, or Rock Slide for Articuno/Bugs.
This is actually a good lead, but you will generally prefer Greninja to attack and abuse Protean and his excellent speed and good attacking stats in a purely offensive role. Full speed is run to be as fast as possible. It will let you outspeed almost any other lead and Taunt them, including Infernape and Froslass. Spikes and Toxic Spikes are hazards, and Greninja can often get down 2 or 3 layers, especially when combined with Focus Sash. Focus Sash is preferred to guarantee you one layer of hazards, but Lefties is an option for recovery. U-Turn let's you pivot out to a wall. Full attack let's you hit hard here, and Greninja isn't that bulky anyway so it is better to invest attack to hurt something.
This set is underrated imo. It's easy to use. Sub until you get the Liechi boost then sweep. Sub is Sub. Acrobatics is a 110 base power Flying move after Liechi Berry activates--this also gets it to +1. Gunk Shot nails Fairies and Night Slash hits Psychic types. Other options include Low Kick to hit Steel types that otherwise wall you pretty well or Rock Slide/Ice Punch for Flying types. 12 HP gives it the Liechi boost after only 3 Subs, with full Jolly speed, and the rest in attack.
As you can tell, Greninja is very customizable, able to run a variety of sets effectively because of its insane speed and decent base attacking stats but most of all its ability Protean, and as such deserves S Rank on Dark and Water.
Mega Gallade (Fighting):
This thing is sooo good, to put this in perspective, it was BANNED from its other type. It has an excellent speed tier after Mega evolving and while this tier may seem crowded, anything less and it would be much less viable I think, as a ton of other Megas and even just regular Pokemon would outspeed it. It has above average bulk and amazing base 165 attack, with boosting options in Bulk Up or Swords Dance, as well as wide coverage to hit a variety of threats.
Example sets:
EVs are pretty standard: full Jolly speed and full attack. SD boosts your attack to incredible levels. Close Combat is a hard-hitting STAB move that will dent pretty much everything that is not a Ghost type or bulky Psychic type, which brings us to the next move: Knock Off. Knock Off provides amazing coverage with Close Combat, nailing walls such as Slowbro and Jellicent VERY hard. The last move is usually Ice Punch to beat the Flying types that can wall you, such as Gliscor, and Flying is also SE on Fighting so it allows you to help beat your weaknesses. Thunder Punch is slashed because it hits Azumarill for SE damage, who otherwise resists your whole set, while still hitting most Flying types hard. Also makes mind games vs. Mega Gyarados easier ;) Zen Headbutt is a powerful secondary STAB that hits hard as well.
This set is annoying as hell to deal with. It has decent bulk to begin with, and it only gets bulkier. Sub blocks out any attempts to status it, and if you don't break the sub quickly, you will have a +1 or +2 Mega Gallade to deal with, which is never fun. Drain Punch recovers health back too. The last slot is coverage--Knock Off offers great coverage alongside Drain Punch while having good utility, while Ice Punch also hits most things at least neutrally with the bonus of hitting most Fairies neutrally.
It can stay in S Rank.
Mega Charizard X (Flying):
Another amazing Pokemon, that can run a variety of sets very effectively. It has amazing typing both defensively and offensively, a great ability, above average stats, and fits in with almost any playstyle.
Example Sets:
This set is very powerful. Full speed is used to outspeed as much as possible before Dragon Dancing up, or Adamant can be used if you prefer power. Dragon Claw or Outrage are your Dragon STABs, with the former being less powerful, but the latter locking you into that move for 2-3 turns. Fire Punch or Flare Blitz are your Fire STABs, with the former being less powerful, and the latter having recoil. EQ is in the last slot to hit Heatran, who otherwise walls you, or you can run Roost for some recovery. EQ can be run over one of your STABs if you prefer Roost in the last slot, but want that coverage.
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
This is the set I run, albeit with different EVs. It is amazing because it resists Thunderbolt and is neutral to Ice Beam, so it can realiably tank the BoltBeam users that threaten Flying teams. WoW cripples physical attackers while Roost is recovery. Dragon Claw+Flare Blitz are dual STABs, and Flare Blitz also 2HKOs Mega Sableye (which is why it is selected over the recoil-less Fire Punch).
Some speedcreep options:
108 Speed EVs outspeeds 252+ Speed Breloom
60 Speed EVs outspeeds 252+ Speed Gohtitelle
20 Spe EVs outspeeds 252+ Speed Magnezone
It also has a BD+Flame Charge set (ArVaDa-'s) and a bulky Roost+DD set that sets up on a lot of stuff.
Mega Diancie is a great S Rank Pokemon. It is Fairy's go-to Mega now that Mega Mawile is banned and for good reason. It is tremendously weak to Steel, but it is so good in other matchups that it is alright that it has one matchup where it struggles--and even then it has Earth Power to nuke Steels slower than it.
Mega Diancie has two great STABs to abuse in Moonblast and Diamond Storm. While they are from different attacking stats, Mega Diancie has tremendous stats, so it can use them effectively. Diamond Storm also has a nifty chance to raise your Defense c: Earth Power is coverage for Steels and Fire types that aren't hit by Diamond Storm, or to hit physically defensive Fire types (such as Infernape, Arcanine, and Torkoal). The last slot is whatever you want. I prefer Protect to allow it to safely Mega evolve and to scout for random Steel coverage, but Calm Mind can turn it into a sweeper. HP Fire can be used to hit Skarmory and Ferrothorn hard as well.
Landorus-Incarnate once again is a solid S Rank Pokemon on both of its types. It is one of the best special wallbreakers in the entire game, with an excellent ability in Sheer Force and moves to abuse it with.
Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Psychic/Gravity/Knock Off/Rock Slide/Calm Mind/Rock Polish
Life Orb has no recoil on moves activated by Sheer Force, so it is basically a free 1.3x boost to your power. Earth Power is a powerful, spammable STAB. Focus Blast is for coverage, as is Sludge Wave. Psychic hits Mega Venusar and Weezing, Gravity allows you to nail Flying types/Levitators (such as Weezing, Zapdos, and Skarmory), Knock Off screws over Chansey, Rock Slide hits for the same damage as Stone Edge, but with slightly better accuracy and no LO recoil. Calm Mind and Rock Polish are boosting moves you can use.
Once again, Landorus-I firmly deserves S Rank as one of the best special wallbreakers in the game, and is a tremendous help in many matchups.
P.S. Were we supposed to just discuss those Pokemon, or the rank as a whole? Cuz I kinda just posted a ton about those 5 Pokemon, and said they all deserve S Rank.
I second kyurem-B moving up to S rank for ice. It's more than just a secondhand version of kyurem-w, as you can find out (slightly less painfully) by laddering with dragon... even in the games where you don't get to abuse it's icebeam neutrality, the opponet is forced to respect kyurem's presence, as between it's 3 main attacks it can do tons of damage. It is also extremely hard to oneshot KO kyurem, even with 252/4 or if you prefer, STAB SE from anything at mega metagross level or below if you choose to use the 1v1 kyurem spread. I still prefer roost+3attacks or sub+3 attacks for the most part though. The best thing about a kyurem B is that on almost on it's own, you can force the opponet to weigh the costs to choosing which pokemon gets to KO each individual one of your team members, as a "sour" mon will allow kyurem to get a free turn, which no one wants.
Diancie mega can be S rank for rock as well, it has grown to become their most popular mega by opening a more offensive playstyle for them. I don't want to call out "new rock" as equivalent or better than old rock, but it is definitely less reactionary than the fatty named mega aggron. Choosing diancie allows you to bring the hurt to a lot of teams and stop some of the will o wisp nastiness than rock teams are vulnerable to. While I do hope that every rock user gets to see an aggron bulk through a fighting team that was careless with it's keldeo at some point, this match up is far less frustrating with mega diancie, and the thing also allows rock to finally have a MU against flying that reflects their super effective advantage.
Right now there's a minor drive to use poison, and all the good players had a crobat, please go back to original rank I have to say that I don't really see the point of NOT bringing gengar, since well... think of what an opportunity cost that would be.. gengar can run dozens of sets well, and he works as a 2 in one check to poison's weaknesses, being immune to ground attacks, and being able to threaten psychic and steel types with it's coverage and speed. While it greatly appreciates prior damage against bulkier teams, poison monos can support it well with either their u-turn pokemon or hazards.
Old Man's Hunch (Kabutops) @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet/Life Orb/Assult Vest
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 SpD Or 252 Attack 252 Speed
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock/Knock Off
- Scald/Aqua Jet
- Rock Slide/Stone Edge
I was Suprised this thing was Non Listed It got a buff after this gen with the knock off boost and i thought It Could be a decent Spinner, It Can work Defencivly and Offencivly, And for rock it is another Resistence to Water
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Kabutops: 273-321 (84.2 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Kabutops Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 190-224 (63.5 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That is the main Reason for the SpD givin with the Attacking Side
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 134-160 (36.8 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 104-125 (35 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Old Man's Hunch (Kabutops) @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet/Life Orb/Assult Vest
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 SpD Or 252 Attack 252 Speed
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock/Knock Off
- Scald/Aqua Jet
- Rock Slide/Stone Edge
I was Suprised this thing was Non Listed It got a buff after this gen with the knock off boost and i thought It Could be a decent Spinner, It Can work Defencivly and Offencivly, And for rock it is another Resistence to Water
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Kabutops: 273-321 (84.2 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Kabutops Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 190-224 (63.5 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That is the main Reason for the SpD givin with the Attacking Side
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 134-160 (36.8 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 104-125 (35 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
A little matchup based, but it should work out well most of the time. It's quite simple to use actually, click Endure as your opponent brings you down to sash, hopefully snag a Weak Armor boost and sweep from there. Unfortunately, it's still pretty weak so you have to use it late game. Waterfall's your most spammable move and it helps beat Hippowdon. Stone Edge's stronger, and it hits Venu for a respectable amount of damage. Aqua Jet bypasses Kabutop's speed if you don't get a Weak Armor boost while Knock Off bops Slowbro. Be careful of Rocky Helms + Iron Barbs tho ;[
Rank ===> A (Possible S)
Snorlax should definitely be ranked on Mono Normal to A (possible S rank) and surprised it's not on there. I use it plenty of times on my team to know it is indeed good.
CurseLax can be a very crucial win condition while maintaining excellent bulk against special attacks. Return 2HKOs most fail Pokemon as well without the boost. It has the ability Thick Fat, which allows it to take Fire- and Ice-type attacks better. Also Immunity gives it a nice niche against status users of Toxic. Not to mention it gets coverage moves such as Crunch in dealing with Psychic- and Ghost-types. It can be used in conjunction with Trick Room Porygon2 (yes I tested it and it's decent).
Although I've been swept by Based Lax countless times, I feel like it isn't S rank material because it doesn't define the metagame. Also, depending on its moveset, it's walled by certain things such as Ghost types / Skarm or you're forced to give up Sleep Talk. However, it's an amazing mon so I agree with A rank.
Kyurem-Black (Ice) --> S Rank
Should be pretty obvious tbh. It is mandatory on competitive Ice teams pretty much, and now that Kyurem-W is banned, it is the obvious replacement. Fusion Bolt helps with Water resisting Ice, while Scarf Teravolt Earth Power hurts Steels and Rocks while ignoring abilities, while also hurting other annoying Pokemon such as Weezing, Gengar, Rotom-W, and Rotom-H. It has a Fire neutrality, and can also run bulkier sets with Substitute effectively as it has reliable recovery in Roost. A very strong Pokemon that can fit in with any playstyle on Ice, well deserving of S Rank.
Kabutops (Water) --> C Rank
With Swift Swim nerfed, Kabutops lost its main role. Even if you do want a Swift Swim user that is physical, Mega Swampert is way bulkier, stronger, and only 10 points less fast. It can set its own Rain, and repeatedly, whereas Kabutops kinda just dies. Kabutops was really hurt by the Swift Swim nerfed and ORAS bringing Mega Swampert and it is outclassed as a spinner by the bulkier Tentacruel and the faster Starmie. Pretty much outclassed in every way, except if you are really obsessed with Swift Swim spam.
Deoxys-S (Psychic) --> B Rank
Tbh, I think Azelf outclasses it as a suicide lead. 115 base speed is still enough to outspeed pretty much everything relevant, and it hits harder as well. It's 180 speed is overkill asf, and even investing in bulk doesn't make it too bulky. It also means you can't use Deo-D who is a good check to Flying spam and fits in better with the bulkier role of Psychic mono. It can be used to revenge kill Scarfers who it can still outspeed (lel) and very fast Pokemon such as Mega Lopunny (although Scarfers such as Victini, Latios, and Gardevoir can handle them, too), but it is still a bit frail for an offensive role, outclassed in this role by harder hitting Pokemon such as Victini and Latios, and Azelf is usually a better suicide lead with Explosions that hurt.
I nominate staravia for rank D in flying and rank A in normal
Staravia can come as bulky as hell with eviolite, even furtherd by intimidate
all in all, staravia can be a great defensive wall with access to defogging hazards, roosting, whirlwinding pokes with set-up and a little dance to even further lower that attack
In normal this can make a godlike chansey, but in flying skarm does the job better
-Derp Face @eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
EV's HP:248 Atk:8 Def:252
- Brave bird
- Defog
-Roost
-Feather Dance/u-turn/whirlwind
brave bird can do some chip damage, while defog can get rid of hazards which can help sashes or can save the game late game. Roost can help you gain HP. and feather dance just weakens more psychical attackers, while u-turn can gain momentum but whirlwind allows you to wind away stat changes.
Last but not least, some calcs:
-1 240+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 186-219 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 158-188 (50.4 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A little matchup based, but it should work out well most of the time. It's quite simple to use actually, click Endure as your opponent brings you down to sash, hopefully snag a Weak Armor boost and sweep from there. Unfortunately, it's still pretty weak so you have to use it late game. Waterfall's your most spammable move and it helps beat Hippowdon. Stone Edge's stronger, and it hits Venu for a respectable amount of damage. Aqua Jet bypasses Kabutop's speed if you don't get a Weak Armor boost while Knock Off bops Slowbro. Be careful of Rocky Helms + Iron Barbs tho ;[
Although I've been swept by Based Lax countless times, I feel like it isn't S rank material because it doesn't define the metagame. Also, depending on its moveset, it's walled by certain things such as Ghost types / Skarm or you're forced to give up Sleep Talk. However, it's an amazing mon so I agree with A rank.
I nominate staravia for rank D in flying and rank A in normal
Staravia can come as bulky as hell with eviolite, even furtherd by intimidate
all in all, staravia can be a great defensive wall with access to defogging hazards, roosting, whirlwinding pokes with set-up and a little dance to even further lower that attack
In normal this can make a godlike chansey, but in flying skarm does the job better
-Derp Face @eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
EV's HP:248 Atk:8 Def:252
- Brave bird
- Defog
-Roost
-Feather Dance/u-turn/whirlwind
brave bird can do some chip damage, while defog can get rid of hazards which can help sashes or can save the game late game. Roost can help you gain HP. and feather dance just weakens more psychical attackers, while u-turn can gain momentum but whirlwind allows you to wind away stat changes.
Last but not least, some calcs:
-1 240+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 186-219 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 158-188 (50.4 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I think Staravia (Flying) in D Rank is too high; it is best to leave it unlisted imo. Its typing is nowhere near as valuable than it is on a Normal team, and there is a lot more competition for a defensive role on Flying. Staravia's main niche on Normal was being neutral to the team's one weakness, whereas no other common Flying types care for the Ghost immunity or Fighting neutrality. Gliscor, Skarmory, Gyarados, or possibly Mandibuzz outclass it.
I'm also thinking that it could move lower on Normal, maybe to C/D Rank? It might've fit a bit higher before ORAS, but now Normal has access to Mega Audino (doesn't care about knock off and neutral to fighting), Pidgeot (outspeeds most Fighting types and spams Hurricane), and Lopunny (2HKOs many Fighting types with a combination of Fake Out + HJK/Frustration), all of which give Fighting types/teams trouble. Not only that, it still is somewhat outclassed bulk-wise by Staraptor.
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Staraptor: 177-208 (47.3 - 55.6%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 142-168 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO
It takes less damage from the initial hit, but, as you can see, factoring in Leftovers have a higher chance of a 2HKO. I'm not a super good Normal user, but I think the only reason to use it on Normal is if you want to run Staravia with Staraptor, using band/scarf on Staraptor, or double Intimidate perhaps.
I think Staravia (Flying) in D Rank is too high; it is best to leave it unlisted imo. Its typing is nowhere near as valuable than it is on a Normal team, and there is a lot more competition for a defensive role on Flying. Staravia's main niche on Normal was being neutral to the team's one weakness, whereas no other common Flying types care for the Ghost immunity or Fighting neutrality. Gliscor, Skarmory, Gyarados, or possibly Mandibuzz outclass it.
I'm also thinking that it could move lower on Normal, maybe to C/D Rank? It might've fit a bit higher before ORAS, but now Normal has access to Mega Audino (doesn't care about knock off and neutral to fighting), Pidgeot (outspeeds most Fighting types and spams Hurricane), and Lopunny (2HKOs many Fighting types with a combination of Fake Out + HJK/Frustration), all of which give Fighting types/teams trouble. Not only that, it still is somewhat outclassed bulk-wise by Staraptor.
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Staraptor: 177-208 (47.3 - 55.6%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 142-168 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO
It takes less damage from the initial hit, but, as you can see, factoring in Leftovers have a higher chance of a 2HKO. I'm not a super good Normal user, but I think the only reason to use it on Normal is if you want to run Staravia with Staraptor, using band/scarf on Staraptor, or double Intimidate perhaps.
Staravia's niche was to allow the Normal user to have an offensive Raptor while having a Defogger which is kinda unnecessary because of Mega Pidgeot. Otherwise, I completely agree with you. Why use Staravia only flying when you could abuse Zapdos and Skarmory, and as I said before, Staravia isn't as good as it was Skit said, it was better in XY so C/D rank is what is should be.
I nominate staravia for rank D in flying and rank A in normal
Staravia can come as bulky as hell with eviolite, even furtherd by intimidate
all in all, staravia can be a great defensive wall with access to defogging hazards, roosting, whirlwinding pokes with set-up and a little dance to even further lower that attack
In normal this can make a godlike chansey, but in flying skarm does the job better
-Derp Face @eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
EV's HP:248 Atk:8 Def:252
- Brave bird
- Defog
-Roost
-Feather Dance/u-turn/whirlwind
brave bird can do some chip damage, while defog can get rid of hazards which can help sashes or can save the game late game. Roost can help you gain HP. and feather dance just weakens more psychical attackers, while u-turn can gain momentum but whirlwind allows you to wind away stat changes.
Last but not least, some calcs:
-1 240+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 186-219 (59.4 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 158-188 (50.4 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tbh, I think Feather Dance is mandatory since it can't beat many things such as Terrakion / Dragonite otherwise. Also, try to format it like this so it's easier to see and use.
Stunfisk @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Discharge
- Earth Power
- Toxic
This thing is super underrated. Electric has always missed out on a huge part of the game: hazards.
I have recently made a new electric team with specially defensive Stunfisk and stealth rocks help out so much. I tested it both on teams with defog Zapdos and also teams with offensive Zapdos; both teams appreciated Stunfisk, even if its hazards had to be defogged away.
Offensive Zapdos works really well with this Pokemon as it is unexpected and takes better advantage of both the rocks and another wall to switch to.
Stunfisk has very decent defenses in 109/84/99 and can make for a great specially defensive tank that can check some of Electric's biggest threats.
Stunfisk is a secondary check to Volcarona, being able to nearly fully toxic stall bulky variants:
0 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 82-97 (19.4 - 22.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery, while also being able to get off a toxic on offensive variants;
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk: 220-261 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Stunfisk can take a large chunk off Mega Charizard X with no investment, which is near unkillable for Electric; it can take any unboosted hit, or can hit it after being paralyzed with help from Thundurus or its own ability Static.
Stunfisk actually has better bulk than Zapdos or Rotom-wash, and despite not having any reliable recovery it can still tank a surprising amount of hits from special attackers.
I'd like to renominate Serperior for A Rank. Currently it sits in B. Not only is Serperior a huge threat for a lot of teams, paired up with Contrary and Leaf Storm, once Serperior sets up to 3x or 4x with Leaf Storm, it does HUGE damage. Serperior is a 4 attack mon, which kind of helps its horrid movepool. Here's the set I use.
The EVs are self-explanatory. Life Orb is just for extra damage which can finish off mons. Leaf Storm is pretty obvious. HP Rock is for Rock Types. After setting up with Leaf Storm a Super effective HP Rock can get pretty powerful. Dragon Pulse is to hit Dragons when needed, and Giga Drain is Serperior's form of HP recovery. Even though Giga Drain isn't very consistent, its a decent way to recover without a consistent way of recovery. With Life Orb, Giga Drain is much needed, when every attack does 10% to Serperior.
I'd like to renominate Serperior for A Rank. Currently it sits in B. Not only is Serperior a huge threat for a lot of teams, paired up with Contrary and Leaf Storm, once Serperior sets up to 3x or 4x with Leaf Storm, it does HUGE damage. Serperior is a 4 attack mon, which kind of helps its horrid movepool. Here's the set I use.
The EVs are self-explanatory. Life Orb is just for extra damage which can finish off mons. Leaf Storm is pretty obvious. HP Rock is for Rock Types. After setting up with Leaf Storm a Super effective HP Rock can get pretty powerful. Dragon Pulse is to hit Dragons when needed, and Giga Drain is Serperior's form of HP recovery. Even though Giga Drain isn't very consistent, its a decent way to recover without a consistent way of recovery. With Life Orb, Giga Drain is much needed, when every attack does 10% to Serperior.
I understand it's not even D at the moment, but I'm trying xD With a lack of good physical attackers in general, electric struggles, only really having electivire and eelektross... but why does everyone forget Luxray? With its ability guts, it's Electric's best way of dealing with Mega Sableye, and rather than using the usual flame/toxic orb set, I suggest a bulky band set, that allows Luxray to live almost any non banded attack that isn't STAB EQ and proceed to deal massive damage to whatever is facing it.
BlacknYellow (Luxray) @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- Crunch
- Quick Attack/Ice Fang/Fire Fang
- Superpower
Quick Attack believe it or not comes in handy so much, ending sweeps and also sadly being some or Electric's best priority, though there's also extremespeed on Pikachu...
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Luxray: 292-345 (80.2 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-B: 406-478 (103.8 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Luxray: 298-352 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 748-884 (185.6 - 219.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Luxray: 271-319 (74.4 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Bulkarona)
252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Volcarona: 246-289 (65.9 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 4 SpA Mega Sableye Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Luxray: 138-163 (37.9 - 44.7%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Luxray Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 211-250 (69.4 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <-- That's Burnt
+3 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Luxray: 297-351 (81.5 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 201-237 (51 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Luxray: 298-352 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Crunch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 408-480 (119.6 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Luxray: 231-273 (63.4 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 186-219 (62.6 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Luxray Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gastrodon: 418-492 (98.1 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO <-- That's poisoned, assuming you switch in on toxic prediction.
252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lanturn: 316-372 (69.6 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Luxray: 264-312 (72.5 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Luxray Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 444-524 (137.4 - 162.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The reason it probably won't go higher than B is that it only tends to perform its role once in a match (usually) as it is there to pick up the important KO. There are some exceptions, against a few types such as normal and ghost it will be the main source of offense for the team, but most of the time it will perform it's role before being revenged, unless it out-speeds the target or there is an easy way to save it, or important reason to.
Luxray is a great counter to many threats of electric, with this set it can break many walls to electric e.g. Lanturn, whilst also posing a huge threat to the opposing team. Despite Electivire having a slightly better attack stat, Luxray is better at performing this role due to it's better defensive bulk.
Because of this and it's lack of usage, it is often underestimated, and people are often surprised by its bulk. It also lands a large chunk on a huge threat to electric monos in Charizard-X with superpower, and also deals with the obstacle mew can pose. It is incredibly valuable against almost all monotypes, particularly normal, being able to 2HKO Porygon2. I would have nominated him for S rank if I could but I'm not that optimistic xD I feel if used correctly he can be invaluable to electric, and recently Luxray usage has risen, and personally I would really struggle without it's reliability and ability to pick up key KOs.
Since the reserve list in the OP seems a bit outdated, I decided to list the Pokemon that still need writeups (and cuz I'm bored and wanna do something ;-;):
Gliscor (Flying)
Lando-T (Flying)
Mega Diancie (Fairy)
Scizor (Steel)
Rotom-H (Fire)
Heatran (Fire)
Empoleon (Steel)
Mega Latios (Dragon) (this is also in Bulk and C Rank right now for some reason lol)
Drapion (Dark)
Mega Swampert (Ground)
Mega Steelix (Ground/Steel)
Starmie (Psychic)
I know Latias was done for Dragon at the bottom of the last page, but I'm not sure about Starmie so I listed it. Also, RIP Zappy burd, Swag Ninja, and MegaGross, they need to be removed :]
First of all, the reason explained on the OP for Kyurem-B not to be S is "lack of physical Ice STAB". I don't recall anywhere in the definitions of ranks lacking a move hindering your ranking. Sadly, this thing has more resistances than 90% of the Ice pool being resistant to Electric, Grass, Water while neutral to Fire and Ice. His most common sets are revenge killer (mixed scarf/phys scarf) and wallbreaker (LO roost or Sub+lefties) and allow him to be the most efficient from the tier at it. Ice doesn't have any other wallbreaker like him except maybe M-Glaelie against certain types. He is also the fastest -decent- scarfer the type has (inb4 scarf Froslass/Articuno) and his SR weakness doesn't prevent him to do its job. He is not a wall, he is not a set up sweeper. He comes in 2-3 times per match and takes down at least 2 pokes if not cleaning the house in certain matchups (Ground, Flying, Poison comes to mind). He also has the most versatile movepool (ironically this doesn't include a good physical Ice move lol) with access to Fusion Bolt, Earth Power, Iron Head, Dragon Claw/Outrage, Ice Beam, Focus Blast. The only poke that has a similar good coverage is Mamoswine and he is nowhere as fast nor strong and is more easily checked by certain physical walls.
Overall, I don't see why Avalugg would be more valuable than Kyurem-B for Monoice at this point. Avalugg is as good as it gets for what's meant to do but in the end, it's not winning you matchups. It's unfair to bring in Ice weaknesses against Kyu-B because those are shared with all the other pokes (except Thick Fat Mamo I guess), the "he needs rapid spin" argument is not valid since that can be said for monoice in general and like I mentioned before, it doesn't prevent him to do its job. He really needs little support if any, at the contrary, he is providing lots of support to his team either punching holes on the opponent's defensive core or checking sweepers with a scarf set.
Finally, think that with the ban of Kyurem-W, there isn't any other Ice pokemon that is so key to Ice teams as he is. He not only can, he *should* be slapped into any Monoice team and its versatility helps the team as he can be tailored to fulfill different roles (fairy checker, dragon killer, water check -Ice Beam 2HKOs Pert while Fusion Bolt does a number to the other water pokes-, mixed breaker -with Skarm gone or severely crippled Mamo and Weavile have an easier time wrecking Ice-, wall breaker -Band Outrage will kill any poke without immunity-, etc).
If against the change, I'd like to hear the reasons from other active Ice users post-KyuW ban, not just people that haven't played Ice since XY and are just theorymoning based on technicalities.
So, er, I know there's a lot of talking about the recent bans and all.. But let's turn our attention to a little bug just for a second, even if it is the most cancerous thing ever to exist. While Volbeat doesn't provide a Bug team with much offensive support, it can however, keep up the support options by being a general pain in the side with Encore, or to speed control with +1 Thunder Waves. I was practicing my Bug Monoing on the ladder, but as of recently, I realized it had a nice support option in Tailwind. And deciding that I disliked how Sticky Web didn't affect levitating or Flying pokemon, which are a pain in the side for almost.. Every bug mega, and mono that has slightly middling speed, I opted to use Tailwind Volbeat.
Volbeat stays at D-Class lol
Volbeat (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SPDEF / 4 SPE OR 252 HP / 252 DEF / 4 SPDEF
Bold/Calm Nature
- Encore
- Thunder Wave
- Tailwind
- U-turn/Confuse Ray/Rain Dance
Now you just turned something, with slightly middling speed that's also a powerhouse into a huge threat just capable of ripping apart entire teams. Now some pokemon(many) on bug have bad speed or, at least, just isn't up to par anymore. Such as Scizor-M or Heracross-M or Genesect, or Tinted Lens Yanmega. Alternate spread: 252 HP/ 4 DEF/ 252 SPE : If you really like your speed.
Since I literally just said how, just use Tailwind/Encore or anything really go gain some momentum, and use Tailwind. If you have time to, U-turn or Confuse Ray around. Encore can deter setting up with moves like Quiver Dance or Dragon Dance, which to the HO of Bug is very dangerous. After you use Tailwind, you want to be careful so abuse your Tailwind abuser greatly during the turns you have.
So, er, I know there's a lot of talking about the recent bans and all.. But let's turn our attention to a little bug just for a second, even if it is the most cancerous thing ever to exist. While Volbeat doesn't provide a Bug team with much offensive support, it can however, keep up the support options by being a general pain in the side with Encore, or to speed control with +1 Thunder Waves. I was practicing my Bug Monoing on the ladder, but as of recently, I realized it had a nice support option in Tailwind. And deciding that I disliked how Sticky Web didn't affect levitating or Flying pokemon, which are a pain in the side for almost.. Every bug mega, and mono that has slightly middling speed, I opted to use Tailwind Volbeat.
Volbeat stays at D-Class lol
Volbeat (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SPDEF / 4 SPE OR 252 HP / 252 DEF / 4 SPDEF
Bold/Calm Nature
- Encore
- Thunder Wave
- Tailwind
- U-turn/Confuse Ray
Now you just turned something, with slightly middling speed that's also a powerhouse into a huge threat just capable of ripping apart entire teams. Now some pokemon(many) on bug have bad speed or, at least, just isn't up to par anymore. Such as Scizor-M or Heracross-M or Genesect, or Tinted Lens Yanmega. Alternate spread: 252 HP/ 4 DEF/ 252 SPE : If you really like your speed.
Since I literally just said how, just use Tailwind/Encore or anything really go gain some momentum, and use Tailwind. If you have time to, U-turn or Confuse Ray around. Encore can deter setting up with moves like Quiver Dance or Dragon Dance, which to the HO of Bug is very dangerous. After you use Tailwind, you want to be careful so abuse your Tailwind abuser greatly during the turns you have.
Just entirely theorymoning here, but would rain dance be an option over tailwind for more bulky bug teams? It helps pokemon like scizor and forretress a whole load, while really putting a damper on Zard Y if it switches in on volbeat.
Just entirely theorymoning here, but would rain dance be an option over tailwind for more bulky bug teams? It helps pokemon like scizor and forretress a whole load, while really putting a damper on Zard Y if it switches in on volbeat.
That does sound like a good idea not particularly helpful on my team though. It could help on teams that are trying to use SD Scizor or just trying to get hazards out of the way via Forrestress.
