Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

[Cell]

Yeah just to expand more on Sableye vs Ground, it has to choose whether it wants to Mega Evolve early to cockblock Hippo and prevent it getting rocks up for the rest of the game, which is actually pretty crucial when you consider 8 turns of sand plus Ghost has no Defogger so a switch is most likely costing you 18% of your health on any given mon. But then there's a flipside that if you mevo early you lose Prankster Wisp and a lot of utility, Exca Iron Heads, Mamo Icicle Crashes etc. become very annoying cos one flinch ends you. I actually don't think CM is it's best set, I prefer the utility set but w/e, Sabe in theory should be good vs Ground, but in reality it struggles.

First off meme'd. Second, the situation you posted would never happen since no sane Ground user will stay in with Hippo against Sableye giving them free rocks/2 turns to cm so the Ghost user has a free turn in that situation to go to jellicent and get off a Scald/Toxic. tldr; meme'd, 50/50s, playable, the situation you posted wouldn't happen.

 

[Freeroamer]

What situation are you on about rofl, I mean the Ghost user has to evolve Sableye early game to prevent Hippo going for rocks at any point because otherwise Hippo can rocks vs Golurk or Aegis or whatever, meaning they're already evolved and can't later Prankster Will-o your physical powerhouses. I really don't know how you can infer I meant Hippo coming into a Sableye or staying in vs one in a 1v1 situation, if they lead vs each other Sableye is either Taunting if it isn't Mega for whatever reason or it has to choose whether it wants to evolve or not. idk why you'd lead Hippo cos it's literally the most predictable shit and easy to take advantage of.

What I'm talking about isn't a 1v1 situation, more of a decision that has to be made over the whole game as to when evolving is worth it, with the balance of the hazards advantage vs the Prankster Will-o

 

[Argus2Spooky]

Mega Sableye, on both types.
Its incredibly bulky, it has access to a Snarl which is a DARK move which is boosted by Calm Mind AND lowers the opponent's SpA.
It has access to Will-O-Wisp which is good against every single type besides Fire.
And it also has a very reliable recovery, which is Recover ._.

I know some of you will probably hate me for this but ghost already has one uber, and we have user: Argus, that has 4 alts in top 15 on the ladder, with 82+ gxe on each and every one, one of them had(until he tilted , rip) 89.4 GXE, he used ghost the entire time, without Mega Sableye.

Tagging Kammi to post the pic of his peak for proof.

Howdy howdy Monotype. I'm Argus, I run ghost, yes I did some ridiculous ladder shit with it. Should Mega Sableye be banned? Eh, well it wouldn't really bother me. But to be honest, the premise of "Argus doesn't use it, ghost doesn't need it" is kind of lame. If you want me to be honest, regular Sableye is outright better than Mega Sableye in a lot of situations; taunt is a lot more effective than Magic Bounce. Just my opinion, with my experiences in the type in the current metagame. When there are four ghost users in the top twenty that all use regular Sableye, its a message. When they're all the same person, not so much. I don't use Mega Sableye, I don't think its all that great. But, from what I've seen, even people with Mega Sableye have a hard time getting anywhere. When you think of representatives of Ghost, generally people like Chleg, Kammi and a few other plebs come into mind. And from what I know, they all run Mega Sableye, but aren't particularly outstanding on the ladder with it. Sure, maybe they don't ladder much, but surely someone would be up there with me if Mega Sableye were particularly overpowered? Just thoughts on your argument.

Kammi , if I understood correctly, you're saying Argus wins matches without Mega Sableye because he's good but 'everyone else' are not because they lack a mega sableye?

Isn't that what KyuW and Skymin were banned? Because one single Pokemon boosts the type's viability and promotes the type as a whole and reverses the outcome of a lost match?

I mentioned snarl because it's a better strat, dark pulse is more powerful but snarl is generally more effective.

Plus. Yes, I am saying if one single person did it, it's possible to everyone else.
If it's POSSIBLE then yes every one else can do it after LEARNING the type instead of clicking 4 moves and sweeping, I agree not against EVERY type, but almost a half of all types. (Poison/electric/ice/fighting/ghost(luck war basically, which one crits first),psychic (unless there is a banded victini involved, or a mega gardevoir.),ground(is somewhat problematic with most of the squad being physical and you can just click WoW and cripple everything, which as you mentioned, ghost has plenty of)... the types I didnt mention are pretty neutral either for being actual checks for mega sab or being an anti typing( fire & fairy ) the rest of the types either have 1/2 almost fully reliable checks to it or more.
If Ghost was bad he wouldn't go anywhere near that ranking and especially not a record breaking GXE with Ghost.

what a fucking god lmao. (Thanks to Kammi for the screenie)

My main point is, Ghost is obviously playable, and if youre going for the arguement it needs mega sableye to stay good, then its basically KyuW and Skymin all over again.
I do want to point out individually, it is not as bad as those two.
But its one of those pokemon that a setup is usually inevitable, with cm/recover/wow with its Prankster, then wall and KO almost everything with whatever STAB you decide to run.

And so is dark, what happened to it getting a quickban on Dark?

Now I know I mentioned a ton of almost and usually and stuff, but its because it may or may not get haxed, may or may not expect this or that switch in or out, I do not know what's going in people's minds or what kind of game sense they have, we all have a different one, experinced players, average players, veterans, newbies, bla bla and bla.
But when I see a pokemon that causes this much problem to types that are already hard to use and some average ones, it should certainly be looked at.
A "special" player or not, he literally proved ghost is PLAYABLE & VIABLE on the upper ladder, and it doesnt require mega sableye to work out well.
If you want to play ghost, learn the type, thats what we all do, with every type, dont just click tacticlessly click 4 moves and sweep.

Worship greatly appreciated. Anyway, your argument here seems to be that Sablenite should be banned like its an Uber. It's not an Uber as far as I know. Therefore, this should be seen in a light more similar to the recent Zapdos ban. Rather than finding an argument that says, "Ghost does fine without it" you need to make an argument that says, "Ghost is too powerful with it." At least, in my opinion.

 

[Entei]

I'll just wait for you all to stop twisting my words before I make any other post, this is getting stupid.

When I said if a ghost user has done it, I meant its possible.

I still see it as a Pokemon that can sweep by its own, NOT against every type, but against about half of them.
Those who already struggle a whole lot adapting to the meta especially, and now even more because of Mega Sableye.

A standart sableye is enough to play the type.

 

[Acast]

I'll just wait for you all to stop twisting my words before I make any other post, this is getting stupid.

When I said if a ghost user has done it, I meant its possible.

I still see it as a Pokemon that can sweep by its own, NOT against every type, but against about half of them.
Those who already struggle a whole lot adapting to the meta especially, and now even more because of Mega Sableye.

A standart sableye is enough to play the type.

I'll keep this post short because everyone else has summed it up pretty well already.

It does not matter if it's possible for Ghost to operate without Mega Sableye. It does not matter if regular Sableye is "enough" to play the type. The only thing that matters is if Mega Sableye is too overpowered to keep in the metagame. A Sableye that's not holding Sablenite is completely irrelevant in this debate.

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

I don't really care one bit if regular Sableye is able to do a better job well than Mega Sableye can on Ghost-types. This is about "Mega Sableye." Both preform different tasks for Ghost mono. Regular Sableye is able to continue with priority Prankster annoying the crap out of other Monos, while Mega Sableye Will-O-Wisps and bounces back hazards and other status with Magic Bounce while potentially causing a win condition through setting up Calm Mind and making good use of Snarl (learned it from playing Battle Spot Singles that this move is more viable than Dark Pulse given a decrease in Special Attack).

After playing with Ghost-types for a month now with the non-stop laddering, I have been enjoying them as of recent and from what I can tell, I don't believe that Mega Sableye even deserves to be nerfed from Ghost. With some monos, Mega Sableye can't come in easily and just set up against other types whenever it wants to. Also, stalling with Mega Sableye is pretty annoying because you're just setting yourself up to be critted, while trying to Calm Mind, though it does rely on luck. Everyone says how "broken" it is, I just say it is just an annoying pain.

 

[Alexis Breeze]

how about we drop this and move onto Mega Charizard X being banned from Flying?

 

[Freeroamer]

Can someone pls explain to me why the popular opinion is that Zard X is that much worse than Altaria that noone talks about Altaria but there's a hate mob for Zard?

Also an argument from the ppl who hate Genesect would be nice too, cos my honest opinion on it is if it hadn't been brought down and instead had been here the whole time, ppl wouldn't bash it half as much but cos it has an Uber tag it's cool to do so. I think it brings an added dimension to Bug teams and doesn't overly destroy multiple teams like several banned threats and some of the stuff in this meta does.

 

[Argus2Spooky]

Can someone pls explain to me why the popular opinion is that Zard X is that much worse than Altaria that noone talks about Altaria but there's a hate mob for Zard?

Also an argument from the ppl who hate Genesect would be nice too, cos my honest opinion on it is if it hadn't been brought down and instead had been here the whole time, ppl wouldn't bash it half as much but cos it has an Uber tag it's cool to do so. I think it brings an added dimension to Bug teams and doesn't overly destroy multiple teams like several banned threats and some of the stuff in this meta does.

Zard-X can sweep my whole team after one ddance if all my sashes are broken, and I run a fairly standard Ghost mono. However, I don't think Flying is particularly overpowered and I don't think its a ban worthy poke.

 

[Entei]

Let me break down what Char-X does to the types, and what those types can do back: ( IMO :/ )

- I apologize beforehand for messing up the order between what ZardX can do and what the Type can do back, I am just too goddamn lazy to fix it :s

Fighting
If the Zard X user finds ANYTHING to set up on, theyre very lucky imo :/ +1 Zard does sweep everything but like FSash Breloom /CScarf Terrakion
The only scenario i can think of is , setting up on a switch out, because the opponent might think they need that certain mon, other than that? nothing, IMO.

Keldeo? No lol ~~~ Terrakion? LOL? ~~~ Cobalion? Twave yo mum ~~~ Hawlucha? Pray its not Unburden ~~~ Conkeldurr? EQ + Drain + Mach.. Im not gonna go on, I have like 17 more types .-.
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What Fighting does to CharX ?
TWave Cobalion,,FSash Spore/Rock Tomb/Mach Punch Breloom,,Scarf/Specs/LO/SubCM Keldeo,,Scarf/Band Terrakion,,EQ/Drain Punch/Mach Punch Conkeldurr - ETC.
Very hard for the ZardX user to Setup against, and hence, not do as much as fat ElectricApples said: ↑

Electric
Zard X does usually sweep Electric teams, by its own even.
It can sweep, without setting up even, just by spamming DClaw/FBlitz. If it does set up though, Electric usually does not have a chance, unless it gets to somehow Paralyze w/ like Sturdy Magnezone or Thundurus-I , or live a hit with Zapdos and Toxicate it.
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Well, I agree, this is extremely a tough Pokemon for Electric to get rid of, but Electric can do what's it's best at, Paralyze it to death.
Get a para on it, probs with Magnezone/Thundurus-I and hope for hax.
What happens next is up to the Elecric user. Best way would probably go to Ampharos , mega, and STAB Dragon Pulse does the job.

Fire
In this case, it depends on the Fire user's team.
If the fire user runs Heatran/Arcanine/Entei/Infernape/RotomH/Infernape or even Zard X themselves , then the Zard X (Flying) user will most likely, have a problem setting up, or even sweeping.
DClaw/EQ/DDance - that combination of moves, does usually solo Fire.
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Then again, if the Fire user has any of the above mons, or some others which I obviously forgot to mention, then it is, a lot more than just stoppable.
Sash / LO / Band Infernape - CCombat/EQ/Taunt Infernape does a number to CharX, so does Intimidate Arcanine w/ Espeed, Balloon EPower Heatran, Espeed/Stone Edge/Bulldoze Entei, ETC.

Water
Water is also very problematic for ZardX. It cannot setup on anything, gets Walled/TWaved/Toxicated by Slowbro, but might aswell pull off a kill or two with its awesome power.
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The only thing it could setup on would probably be Empoleon, which also hits hard w/ Surf/Scald/HPump.
Grass
Here too, much like against Electric, ZardX usually pulls off a solo sweep, with, or without Dragon Dance. STAB Tough Claws boosted Flare Blitz OHKO's almost everything in its way, and it usually gets to setup early.
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But, it could also go this way: Wearing it down w/ Mega Venu, or TWaving it w/ Ferrothorn and making it lose shit tons of HP, or putting it to sleep and then completely destroying it W/ Sash Spore/Rock Tomb/Mach Punch Breloom/ hit it with a STAB Rock move with Cradily or like Dragon Pulse with Serperior.
As you can see, ElectricApples , Grass DOES have checks to CharX, so pls dont :;

Bug
Bug can pretty easily take ZardX down. IMO That is.
We have Ice Beam Sect, that gets a SpA boost on its send-in, We have Scarf MoxieCross that can take it down With EQ/Stone Edge, We have Mega Pinsir that almost OHKOs it with Return, We also have Shuckle to encore its DDance, we have Armaldo to tank a hit and OHKO back with Stone Edge, Even Sash Thunder Galvantula, does quite alot, and may get a Para!
So Im not exactly sure what are you talking about, ElectricApples :/
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Now now, ElectricApples , I do agree ZardX does a number to Bug.
It has awesome Potential, setting up one Dance, and probably sweep everything!
Then again, it can only set up on Forretress/Scizor , as fat Arifeen said ↑.

Poison
Zard X can, not easily, Set up on a Pokemon like Scolipede( Complete Baton Pass Set = No Attax ) , Weezing ( And then get ripped by Haze ) , predict a switch out.. Aaand thats about it.
You dont have to setup to win against Poison, considering its not that hard.
You cant get WoW'd by Weezing, and you get to outspeed everything but Crobat Scolipede and Gengar.
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What leverage does Poison has over Zard X?
Nidoking,,Nidoqueen,,EQ/RockSlide Drapion,,Sucker Punch/Taunt Skuntank,,Mega Venu with EQ/Leech Seed/STAB Sludge Bomb does a surprising 50% which forces a roost. and a shitton more.
Not entirely a problem, tolerable, and doesnt cause too much damage to the team.

Fairy
Azumaril? Twave Reflect Klefki? Scarf or Mega Fairy STAB Gardevoir? Scarf/Twave Air Slash Togekiss spam? Counter or even Unaware Clefable? Mega fucking Diancie?
You cant tell me you can setup on any of these, MAYBE besides Clefable.
You literally lose a STAB move (Dragon)
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While you cant use Dragon Claw/Outrage, you can still Spam FBlitz & Roost and do a number, only things that are actually stopping you are Azumarill and Diancie.

Dark
Megas: Sharpedo/Tyranitar to literally destroy it.
- Mega Absol maybe with Sucker Punch?
- And Im only mentioning Mega Sableye to remind you to ban that shit :(
Crawdaunt too does a number on it, Mandibuzz also kind of walls it, not letting it dance considering it almost always runs Foul Play, Bisharp w/ SuckerPunch, ETC.
Or a standart Sableye w/ Taunt & Foul Play to wear it down.
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The Zard X user could try Setting up on Mega Sableye, or a standart one ( Ambitious af hoping it runs like Confide or some shit over Foul play )
Other than that, it does a decent job jst DClawing/Flare Bombing everything.

Ghost
Aegislash could PROBABLY take a FBlitz and OHKO back after WP boost with Shadow Ball, and if it doesnt, KO the next turn with SSneak.
Scarf Chandelure does like 65% to ZardX with SBall, live a hit of DClaw, and KO back with another Shadow Ball.
Iron Defense Jellicent also , kind of, walls it, and is able to spam shadow balls & recovers and tear it down.
Mega Banette with TWave/DBond XD
Mega Sableye cant do crap, unless Zard X is sent in later in the game when it has 84123017 boosts and it can do a ton of damage with Dark Pulse :P
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I agree the above are NOT very reliable, and so stating this:
Zard X does usually single handedly sweeps Ghost teams :/

Steel
Screens / TWave / Foul Play - Klefki,,,,ABalloon EPower/AncientPower Heatran,,,,ScarfDrill,,,,Empoleon,,,,Sturdy Twave Magnezone,,,,Scarf EQ Gross (Which I started seeing a lot lately. )
Steel DOES have its ways to take down ZardX.
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While saying that I cant ignore the fact a lot of people run Blitz/EQ combo along w/ Roost&DDance.
That Combo, after a single Dance, could sweep steel. (Except for Heatran cause Flash FireA Balloon)

Normal
Toxic/Twave Chansey,,,the recently common Foul Play/Twave Porygon2,,,Band/Scarf Diggersby,,,Sash Spore Smeargle,,,Starapor,,,Mega Lopunny/Pidgeot,,,and literally fucking Ditto.
Normal has its own annoying shit
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Then again, if it gets to setup on Chansey ( only if it runs something like: StealthRock/Recovery/Heal Bell/Seismic Toss ), it could change the game entirely, even after one DDance.

Dragon
Scarf Dragon, Scarf Another Dragon, Scarf this Dragon, Scarf that Dragon.. Glare/DTail Druddigon, Slow it down with Goodra... MALARIA, which KIND OF forces Zard X to gtfo.
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If you get to setup a dance, that would be ONLY on a switchout, and that too, will only happen if youre in a situation of Zard X VS Non Scarf & Below 100 Speed Dragon.

Ice
Avalugg can take a hit and payback with Avalanche/Earthquake, which usually forces them to roost, but your (The Ice user) Earthquake does more than their roost, so they either switch out and you get to do something other than spam EQ (Yay),,, they either kill you , with very low hp, which is where your Scarfer/Base 100+ Comes in and take it down, or they just die to EQ Spam. Or Roar perhaps?
SSmash Closyer - gg
Mamoswine's Thick fat lets it take a hit and OHKO w/ EQ.
ETC.
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Surprisingly, Zard X does not have a safe setup, MAYBE except avalugg if youre willing to risk your best Anti-Ice Pokemon.
When it does, somehow, probably on a switch, it does sweep Ice.. Avalugg does do a number on it. KEEP THAT IN MIND.

Rock
Tyranitar/Aerodactyl/Diancie- Mega's or not, RIP Zard X- Going on is useless.
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Not being able to DDance about 95% of the time, still does a decent job w/ EQ and DClaw.

Ground
Smooth Rock Meanie, Sand Rush Meanie, Thick Fat Meanie, Suspected Flying Meanie, Water Meanie , Mega Dragon Meanie. #Yeah!!!
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Impossible to DDance on, unless the Ground user has technical issues with their mouse and are unable to click EQ. Does do a decent damage on Gastro/Mamo but that's about it.

Psychic
Pre DDance: Latios/Latias , Toxic/TWave SlowbroDBond CScarf Gardevoir? Mega Hyper Voice/Taunt Gardevoir? Specs Meloetta?
Post DDance: Slowbro ._.
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ZardX is hard to get rid off for Psychic, Especially because Mew can't WoW, much like Poison, only Psychic doesn't have as much checks to it.

Flying
CharX
---------- FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
CharX

In all seriousness, they break each other's Sandibuzzes and Skarmories, and end up being a speed tie or ends up with one of the 2 users feeling bad for running a bulky set, since its outsped by the opposing, and dies.

TL;DR
The above tells you about BOTH points of view of : A Type vs Zard X(Flying).

Zard X might be a win condition against some types, but NEVER by its own.
The opponent mustn't let the ZardX user set up.
If that's inevitable, Possibly against (Electric/Fire/Ghost) , then Zard X should be looked into more seriously.

If it ends up getting banned, keep in mind Flying loses Another incredibly reliable Sweeper, and lately, a Defogger.

So if it does get banned, I plead you to consider bringing Zapdos back.

If we're discussing ChariXard again, I'll bring this back.

Feel free to add anything since I obviously forgot some things ;/

Tagging ArVaDa- Arifeen SaNeski and Anttya to share their thoughts

 

[DoW]

Can someone pls explain to me why the popular opinion is that Zard X is that much worse than Altaria that noone talks about Altaria but there's a hate mob for Zard?

Also an argument from the ppl who hate Genesect would be nice too, cos my honest opinion on it is if it hadn't been brought down and instead had been here the whole time, ppl wouldn't bash it half as much but cos it has an Uber tag it's cool to do so. I think it brings an added dimension to Bug teams and doesn't overly destroy multiple teams like several banned threats and some of the stuff in this meta does.

I was probably at the forefront of people asking for Genesect to be banned until a short while ago, due to a) it being hard to hit, due to scarf u-turn everywhere and b) being able to choose what it beats to an extent in the same way as greninja, for example it can run ice beam / energy ball to destroy ground, boltbeam is nasty for flying, even stuff like flamethrower/gunk shot for bug and grass, etc.
For example, on my main Flying team I run Landorus with 11 Def IVs in order to make Genesect get the Atk boost, in order that it doesn't instantly get a KO with ice beam. This I took for overcentralisation, while it can also be a problem for a number of types.
However, having watched the meta for a while and more recently used a bug team, I've found it's not as bad as I earlier thought. While it's tough for these types to deal with, they can still beat it and in any case the only common set is scarf u-turn/boltbeam/flamethrower which makes it easy enough to predict, and once you can play around that set (which every type can) then it's evidently not broken.
Another argument is that Bug is a strong enough type already so doesn't need an uber dropped down, however Bug clearly isn't broken with Genesect and our aim should be to ban as few pokemon as possible, so clearly this argument does not hold water either.

tl;dr Contrary to what I've been saying for almost a year, Genesect on Bug does not need a ban. #Praise Genesect.

 

[Tyke]

Zard-X can sweep my whole team after one ddance if all my sashes are broken, and I run a fairly standard Ghost mono. However, I don't think Flying is particularly overpowered and I don't think its a ban worthy poke.

The same is true for electric and fire teams, for the most part. Even grass.

 

[Acast]

Can someone pls explain to me why the popular opinion is that Zard X is that much worse than Altaria that noone talks about Altaria but there's a hate mob for Zard?

I only place emphasis on Zard X over Altaria because I personally have not had much trouble with Altaria. To be fair, that's because I mostly run Steel lately. Steel has a lot of trouble with Zard X, while Altaria is weak to Steel's STAB moves. I'm not intending to be biased. I'm only bringing up what I've seen as an issue from my perspective. If I were to use another type and find that Altaria is just as much of an issue as Zard, I would be calling for discussion on Altaria just as much as Zard X. For now, until I experience it for myself, I'm just remaining neutral on Altaria and calling for discussion on what I think is most in need of debate.

Whenever I get the chance I'll hop on a testing alt and use a type that has more trouble with Altaria than Steel does to see what it's like.

 

[Freeroamer]

Altaria can bop Steel with the appropriate set, I've ran Return / Fire Blast / EQ / Roost on Flying as of late and it absolutely destroys Steel. This is what I meant by Alt can cater itself to beat specific teams, with the exception of Ice. (and kinda Poison) Hyper Voice and more special investment is viable for anyone who wants to try it, and might even be the better set.

 

[Acast]

Altaria has never been a problem for my Steel team. I'm not sure if It's just that I've been lucky or if the people I'm facing are using it poorly, but I've never found it to be threatening. Again, just my experience as of the moment.

 

[Anttya]

This is messy but w/e

In all honestly, both Mega Alt and Zard-X are insanely OP. They all steamroll specific types, and are able to threaten everything else. If you think either of those isn't broken or insanely OP, then grats, your type is one of the only ones that doesn't get beat by it. Like no offense, but it's true.

We all know that Zard-X is OP asf, but many do not know how good Mega Altaria is. They think that a slow speed tier (80) will make it easily revengable by something strong and fast, and psh, no investment = weak attacks. They also think that an Ice typing is easily exploited etc etc etc. It's true, but not true lol

This is the set I use btw

Hide

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 96 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Return
- Heal Bell

At the cost of being completely walled by every Steel type in existence, you can pretty much beat everything that isn't a Poison / Steel type and if they don't have a STAB SE move. That EV spread lets you live 2 LO HP Ice's from Thundy-I making it a pretty nice switch in while a +0 Return does 70+. Heal Bell lets you beat walls, and Roost lets you recover etc

soo what does Altaria beat? Let me list out the types and how Altaria brutally murders them

Normal = If you don't have a Ditto and if you let P2 + Bulkyraptor get worn down... gg! And even if you have a Ditto, Alt may be running Frustration so you just gave it another free boost. Here are some calcs:

0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 118-140 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - Unless if you get lucky and freeze, Alt's setting up
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Quick Attack vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 94-112 (26.6 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO - Lol revenge killing
+1 0 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 309-364 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO - xd
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 126-150 (35.6 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - Set up on one of the most threatening mons!

Grass = Ok, Alt does struggle more vs Grass because Grass has access to Alt's best counter: Mega Venusaur. Shame it's only on Grass and Poison monos :( However, if it's running Fire Blast you might as well say goodbye to Ferro if you switch it in.

Water = This sets up on so many things, it's not funny. Water is reliant on Azu tanking a hit, Scarf Keld slowing it down with Icy Wind to the point where it can be revenge killed, and Cloyster Ice Sharding it. You could run Ice Beam on various mons but that's not going to do much to Alt. So Alt pretty much sweeps once its checks are weakened (Esp Empoleon)

+1 0 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 279-328 (69 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - lol
252+ Atk Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 86-104 (24.3 - 29.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO - lol
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 106-126 (30 - 35.6%) -- 28.2% chance to 3HKO - lol

Fire = You might think that resisting Return will save you, but what can you do stop Alt from getting to +6? Practically nothing can effectively kill Alt and if you've already put something to sleep with Yawn and Heatran's dead... gg! (This can be sped up if you have EQ lol)

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria in Sun: 137-162 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - And they call it a wallbreaker! (Fire Blast is stronger than Air Slash)
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 90-107 (25.4 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO - lol
8 SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 84-100 (23.7 - 28.3%) -- 94.4% chance to 4HKO - yay super effective moves
252 SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 104-124 (29.4 - 35.1%) -- 13.2% chance to 3HKO - On the plus side you're only facing a +6 Altaria with no speed boosts :)

Flying = First of all, this thing beats Zard-X and Mega Dos 1v1 soooooooooooo, get rid of Skarm = Gg!

4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 111-132 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 83.5% chance to 3HKO - Time to set up!
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 144-171 (40.7 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - This is a +1 Flare Blitz from another broken mon :D
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 152-179 (43 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO - If you give this thing a safe switch in it's living everything you can throw at it
This pretty much 2HKOs everything else at +1

Steel = One of the only types that doesn't get beaten by the King DDD (Defensive Dragon Dance) set. However, if it runs Fire Blast and Eq... gg as well!

Fairy = It has an easier time stopping it but it can set-up on Klefki (if it doesn't have Play Rough) However, if it gets to +1 it's denting something before it dies (or it sweeps because of Fairy's low def)

+1 0 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 204-241 (51.7 - 61.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 170-204 (48.1 - 57.7%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO - If Alt's healthy enough to take 1 Moonblast then you win 1v1. (Assuming you set up on Klefki or something looked into something that can't hurt it)

Poison = You win vs Alt 90% of the time. It can't really setup on anything and it's not hurting anything if you have a Venusaur

Dragon = Dragon loses once you get to +1 and if they don't have any intact sashes lol. Immunity to Dragon Tail lets it set up even further

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 109-129 (30.8 - 36.5%) -- 63.9% chance to 3HKO - lol
8 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 200-236 (56.6 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and it's really easy to set up, just bring it in on a choiced Outrage / Dragon Move and win

Ground = Ground can revenge it w/ Excadrill and WW it out w/ Hippowdon. Sludge Wave from Lando makes it hard for Alt to set up as well. However, it's still setting up on things like Gastrodon so something's going to be taking a +1 Return. However, it is easier to beat it.

Rock = If you don't have a Mega Aggron / Defensive Rhyperior or if it's dead, then gg. Nothing can beat Altaria. It sets up on practically everything, T-tar, Terrakion, Cradily etc

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 121-144 (34.2 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - lol revenge killing
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 136-162 (38.5 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - Grats, you outsped (hopefully) but Terrakion can't even kill it afterwards and the Alt user can just roost until you miss or run out of PP

Ghost = Froslass is dying early, and if Aegislash is weakened say gg as well.

+1 0 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 176-207 (67.9 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - If that thing takes a little rocks + LO damage it's not living a return.
252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 124-147 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - Cute scarf, let me set up all over that and kill you once you get a -spdef drop

Psychic = Like Zard-X, Alt can pretty much solo Psychic if they don't have a Metagross or Taunt Mew because this thing sets up on everything. Heck, it can even take a Specs Latios's Psyshock fairly well. Tbh your only hope of ever beating this is to paralyze it with Slowbro and keep on paralyzing it until Alt kills you so you can revenge it w/ something else. Also, unlike Zard-X Alt has Heal Bell / Refresh so it doesn't have to worry about T-waves.

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 145-172 (41 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fake Out vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 54-64 (15.2 - 18.1%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 204-240 (57.7 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Yes, you can do a lot but Alt can use this as an opportunity to Dragon Dance and kill everything lol. Besides, if you're running Ice Punch you don't run Bullet
252 Atk Mega Gallade Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 146-172 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Electric = Lets be honest, the match was over at preview. yay you have a Magnezone but that's not living forever

Dark = This was also over at preview. Alt pretty much kills everything

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Fake Out vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 40-48 (11.3 - 13.5%) -- possible 8HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 120-143 (33.9 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Bug = Alt can set up on so many things and kill everything offensive. However, Genesect, Volc and Forretress give it some problems.

+1 0 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 121-143 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Tl;dr So yeah, Alt's actually insanely good in this metagame and I really hope it gets suspected because it can effectively beat a ton a types while completely shutting down others. I didn't say this in the actual thing, but it gets the support it needs as well. Lando-I completely bops steel, while Skarm can effectively take on Hippo and Exca.

Mfw Omnia highlighted me, I didn't plan on writing anything

 

[Zar]

252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 211-250 (72.5 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 105-125 (36 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

For Fire ^

 

[RZL]

What can beat Mega Alt with ease. Empoleon can Roar, Azumarill can take a hit then Band can KO back with Play Rough, and Keldeo for Flying's main sweeper is a good trade. If you play with a modicum of perspicacity you would realize Ice Beam is an option on quite a bit, and that Cloyster is shit.

Other Options (assuming we are using your set), Tentacruel, Starmie, Cloyster, and Swampert all have ways of deal with it.

Swampert has Ice Punch: 0 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 120-142 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- 19.9% chance to 3HKO; 4 Atk Swampert Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 88-104 (24.9 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO

Tentacruel has Acid Spray and resists: 0 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 72-86 (20.1 - 24%) -- possible 6HKO after Black Sludge recovery; Acid Spray's damage does not matter, as it decreases special defense.

Starmie: You survive one Return without any boosts, and then: 252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 187-221 (52.9 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Cloyster: I doubt I need to elaborate on how potent a Shell Smash Cloyster is to Flying. First turn, you Return, I Shell Smash, literally any move on that set will not beat Cloyster.

Sure, once Mega-Altaria's checks are weakened, yes Mega-Altaria would sweep, even though half of most teams check Mega-Alt. Keldeo, Gyarados (Heavily damages, only if you play right in a Dragon Dance war), Azumarill, Swampert, Starmie, Tentacruel and Cloyster. All of which are used at least on 30% of Water-Monos, seriously people do Empoleon disparagement.

 

[Freeroamer]

Lol half the checks you just listed lose to a set with EQ, idk how Keldeo and Swampert are checking the set ant posted, and other sets can beat the checks you listed. Don't think so one dimensionally when it concerns this mon, as it has a whole host of viable sets that have about 3 full answers between them, and if need be when I'm on my laptop later I'll go through them.

Starmie: Alt DDs on it then KOes the next turn

 

[RZL]

Lol half the checks you just listed lose to a set with EQ, idk how Keldeo and Swampert are checking the set ant posted, and other sets can beat the checks you listed. Don't think so one dimensionally when it concerns this mon, as it has a whole host of viable sets that have about 3 full answers between them, and if need be when I'm on my laptop later I'll go through them.

Starmie: Alt DDs on it then KOes the next turn

Well they set up revenge kills don't they? I did say just using the set that Ant posted. Check isn't the best word, but set up for revenge kill more so. Leaving a Pokemon with heavy damage is good, enough. Mega-Alt obviously runs through Defensive Water Monos.

Yes, Starmie loses one-on-one, but utilizing your full team in a battle is good, and I am just stating that Mega Altaria is not going to easily set up anywhere on water, barring sheer stupidity, or Politoed which I have never ran.

Tentacruel eats an EQ. +1 0 Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 220-260 (61.6 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery;+1 252 Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Tentacruel: 272-322 (76.1 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery and then lowers special defense for this: 252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. -2 248 HP / 96 SpD Mega Altaria: 210-248 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Swampert is a check if they lack Roost.

Ugh, I think the others are rather obvious.

Mega-Alt, all in all, I rarely find as a huge threat, I honestly have more trouble dealing with Thundurus, or Kyurem-Black on their respected monos. If you are stupid enough to let Mega-Altaria get away from you then you should lose to it, this is the same with any sweeper.

I am sure other types are more troubled, but I rarely findMega-Altaria set up past +1.

 

[Freeroamer]

Lol eq sets run Attack but ok, you don't really seem to get the fact that it has multiple sets which each have varying checks which means that most of the time you're saccing a mon just to find out the set. I mean comparing it to Kyurem in th context of discussing its effectiveness vs Water is just blatantly trying to make it seem worse, but Kyurem has a ton of flaws which stop it being as effective in the general metagame such as possibly one of the shittiest type combos, from which comes a rocks weakness, lack of means of boosting its Speed without locking into a move, reliance on Life Orb or Band for true wall breaking power, and constant checks for whatever set gets used.

Lemme go through your answers:

Swampert: Almost all Alt have Roost, so you're fighting a losing battle here if you try and Ice Punch it to death. Yawn delays the problem but doesn't stop Swamp getting worn down. Tox or Scald burns fail miserably against Facade or Heal Bell sets.

Keldeo: Specs Icy Wind does a chunk but dies in the process, but it does force the Altaria out next turn I suppose, but it's not hard to find opportunities to Roost it off.

Empoleon: Loses to EQ sets, does nothing vs last mon Alt even if it doesn't have EQ, more of a delay than a solution.

Tentacruel: Same as above except the last mon part

Starmie: Does nothing vs boosted sets, needs Taria significantly weakened(down to 60%) to revenge

Azumarill: Literally one of the easiest mons in the game to wear down, and considering it needs to be at high HP to even eat a hit, that's not a great solution.

Cloyster: Ya it sucks but is probably the best actual check if it has Ice Shard, eats a Return and can Shell Smash on Taria, dies to Hyper Voice sets but those are less common.

Slowbro: Has a miserable time vs Sub or Heal Bell sets, is cleanly 2HKOed by Hyper Voice, but for 2 attacks DD Roost sets its a good check.

Some of these lose to Cotton Guard too, which I forgot when writing this up =] mainly Azu

 

[RZL]

Tentacruel takes Earthquake regardless by the way. Also both of those Earthquake were at +1 attack, but you cannot read how both calcs are Earthquake from Altaria. Huh, so I guess it is just me that finds no problem in beating Mega-Altaria, most of these revenge kills are in pinch, and you are doing something wrong if you let Altaria get too many boosts up. Altaria is not frail, it has great power, but by no means do I find it that harmful to water insofar as to make this statement "Water = This sets up on so many things, it's not funny. Water is reliant on Azu tanking a hit, Scarf Keld slowing it down with Icy Wind to the point where it can be revenge killed, and Cloyster Ice Sharding it. You could run Ice Beam on various mons but that's not going to do much to Alt. So Alt pretty much sweeps once its checks are weakened (Esp Empoleon)" (Anttya, 2015).

I am just saying that this aggrandizes the situation, Altaria cannot set up on many common Water-types. Sure, if it has Roost, I'll give it Swampert, and Politoed (even then Perish Song).

 

[DoW]

While I'm not particularly convinced about saying "you sweep if X counter has been removed", as the whole point is you don't let Skarm or Tran get removed, the fact that they go down to fire blast and eq respectively doesn't help Altaria's case at all.

I don't really know much about altaria TBH, as recently I've been using types and teams that happen to do reasonably well against it. However, I'd like to see analyses of how it does against types it's strong against (e.g. Dark, Dragon, Fighting), which I expect would make me convinced of it being broken.

 

[Freeroamer]

Tentacruel takes Earthquake regardless by the way. Also both of those Earthquake were at +1 attack, but you cannot read how both calcs are Earthquake from Altaria. Huh, so I guess it is just me that finds no problem in beating Mega-Altaria, most of these revenge kills are in pinch, and you are doing something wrong if you let Altaria get too many boosts up. Altaria is not frail, it has great power, but by no means do I find it that harmful to water insofar as to make this statement "Water = This sets up on so many things, it's not funny. Water is reliant on Azu tanking a hit, Scarf Keld slowing it down with Icy Wind to the point where it can be revenge killed, and Cloyster Ice Sharding it. You could run Ice Beam on various mons but that's not going to do much to Alt. So Alt pretty much sweeps once its checks are weakened (Esp Empoleon)" (Anttya, 2015).

I am just saying that this aggrandizes the situation, Altaria cannot set up on many common Water-types. Sure, if it has Roost, I'll give it Swampert, and Politoed (even then Perish Song).

Lanturn is an extremely popular mon on Water monos who for the most part, represents a 100% free setup. Tentacruel takes one EQ and does what, a 40 BP Acid Spray? Even Keldeo represents a setup if it locks into either of its STABs lol. You're taking this way too personally because it's your type, and it's blinding you to reason, but Altaria is very strong vs Water and sets up on a great deal of the type. I get one DD on a mon that can do nothing to me, another DD while tanking a hit, and proceed to sweep at +2, so unless you run Cloyster and something that can outspeed +1 Taria and hit it hard, your team is probably weak to it. That's just a fact of monotype and is the same for a lot of other Monotype teams. God forbid should I be Cotton Guard or Sub or something else that stops Cloyster rking it.

 

[Monotip]

Just a thought, but I think people are focusing on the wrong thing for Mega Charizard X vs. Altaria. :s

It isn't that Altaria is a less threatening sweeper than Charizard, they're both good against different things. It has been determined in the past that Charizard's ability as a Dragon Dance user shouldn't be the focus of the discussion around it. The things that set Charizard apart from its Dancing fellows on Flying is the fact that the next fastest Mega-Dancer has a base speed of 81 versus Charizard's 100 and that Charizard isn't weak to Bolt or Beam. In fact, I know of no other type-changing Mega that has a typing so well paired with its teammates, sharing only a common weakness to Rock with a Flying type. Flying has numerous checks to Rock so that's not much of a concern.