Gen 2 Monotype

Lavos

alone with my friends
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
#1
There's been a lot of competitive discussion surrounding GSC lately, so I thought I'd bring up a more lighthearted metagame which has caught my interest. I was complaining in another thread about how mono Electric sucks in OU when I started to consider how it would fare against other monotype rosters, and the idea has snowballed into this thread.

Monotype in Gen 2 seems like it would be a fun and decently competitive metagame in that many types have one or two standout threats but none are overwhelmingly powerful against others. While some types like Ghost and Dragon don't have enough Pokemon to field a team of 6, the rest are generally comprehensive enough to stay competitive, and many types like Flying and Water are extremely diverse. I think this could be a good way to not only take the pressure off GSC players for a little bit, but also to expand interest in Gen 2 metagames and find whimsical enjoyment in what is often deemed the most serious of metagames.

Below are some types and respective Pokemon that I think would perform rather well in a GSC monotype format. Standard format would mean all 6 Pokemon must share one type, standard OU banlist applies along with all competitive clauses. Snorlax is banned, it's unkillable without a rare Explosion.

Normal

Blissey - Special tank, as if Lax wasn't enough. Soaks Electrics and Waters pretty well.
Clefable - One Drum makes it an instant thread. Alternatively, a mixed attacker could hit multiple types.
Kangaskhan - Similar to Snorlax, but faster and less bulky. Dangerous setup sweeper and phazer.
Miltank - Cleric, tank, checks other Cursers.
Porygon2 - Curse sweeper, or support with status.
Tauros - Mixed sweeper.

Electric

Zapdos - Powerful and versatile. RestTalk, screens, even Rain Dance are all potentially viable.
Ampharos - Tanky with screens. Dynamicpunch for Normal coverage.
Electabuzz - Mixed sweeper.
Electrode - It Explodes...
Jolteon - Most Electrics are already fast, but this one can Growth pass.
Lanturn - Surprisingly tanky, can RestTalk with ease. Convenient Water typing unless vs Electrics.
Pikachu - Strongest Thunder in the game. Can Sing for sleep. Mixed coverage.
Raikou - Ultimate special wall. Screens, phazing, lots of offensive options too.

Water

Suicune - Extremely tanky with good coverage. Can spread status and phaze.
Cloyster - Provides the rare Spikes. Can take hits and Explode.
Lanturn - Can RestTalk and doesn't instantly die to Thunders.
Lapras - Jack of all trades. Ice Beam hurts.
Omastar - Screens and Haze are niche options.
Poliwrath - Lovely Kiss and Belly Drum for the price of one.
Quagsire - Immune to Electric moves. Could force HP Grass tech from Electric monos.
Slowbro - Extremely tanky. Can spread status and Growl stuff.
Tentacruel - SD sweeper on a team swamped with special attackers and tanks.
Vaporeon - Growth sweeper or passer. Good RestTalker.

Psychic

Exeggutor - Status, Leech Seed, Explosion. Powerful STAB attacks.
Alakazam - Very strong Psychics. Good coverage. Encore and Recover are both nice.
Espeon - Growth passer. Morning Sun for recovery.
Girafarig - Agility passer with decent coverage.
Hypno - Spreads status and sets screens. Decent tank.
Jynx - Relatively fast with Sleep. Ice Beam in particular hurts.
Slowbro - Extremely tanky. Can spread status and Growl stuff.
Starmie - Fast with good coverage and Recover. Rapid Spin is possible though not always needed.

Ground

Marowak - Terrifying SD sweeper. Can punch holes in any team.
Donphan - Spins, phazes, does damage.
Golem - Strong Earthquakes and Rock Slides. Fire Blast for coverage. Explodes.
Nidoking - Powerful mixed sweeper. Lovely Kiss for sleep. Counter can be a nasty surprise.
Nidoqueen - Defensively stronger and offensively weaker than its male counterpart.
Piloswine - Can Curse and phaze or RestTalk. Ice coverage is good to have.
Quagsire - Completely walls non-HP Grass Electrics. Not that this team has a problem with them.
Rhydon - Curses and phazes with strong attack and defense. Rock type walls Normals.
Steelix - Curses, phazes, and Explodes.

Other types that I think could be threatening include Fighting, Fire, Flying, Grass, Ice, and Poison. I won't write them all out because this is partially about being creative with a new ruleset. Feel free to use this thread as a place to discuss the metagame, find battles, and post replays! I hope you all find it to be fresh and interesting.

edit #1: SNORLAX IS BANNED
 
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Isa

CHINGUYA
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#2
i'd be down for some of these although i suggest a snorlax ban, i think very few teams have a way to break STalkcurselax beyond exploding on it. many types don't get a normal resist/immunity and neither ghost nor steel can field 6 fully evolved mons.
 

Lavos

alone with my friends
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
#3
Yeah I definitely considered a Snorlax ban while drafting this. Normal seems to have enough threats. I'll wait for some more people to weigh in before changing anything, but the point is well received.

edit: SNORLAX IS BANNED (just tested it, nothing kills it, curse stalk 6-0s non fighting monos)
 
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Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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#5
I'm concerned that Normal is just too strong, even with the Lax ban. Fighting doesn't entirely work as a counterpick; Normal has play with all the Twaves/Growls/Reflects/Counters at its disposal. Not to mention the Dodrio/Girafarig side-deck. And the shitty accuracy of Cross Chop, the only Fighting move really strong enough to muscle past most Normal-types' massive bulk. We'll let the games speak for themselves though.
 

Mr.E

im the best
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#7
I'm concerned that Normal is just too strong, even with the Lax ban.
Electric runs train on everything except Snorlax, Blissey, and fellow grounded Electrics. But nobody has the latter except itself, and Blissey can't kill anything like Snorlax kills everything. Blissey isn't even that unbreakable since Electabuzz and Drill Peck Zapdos can both 1v1 it and Pikachu/Raichu can screw with it using Encore.

I think mono-Ground will still beat mono-Electric but even that's probably kinda close with judicious use of Reflect and Hidden Power.
 
#8
Okay so I am gonna try to revive this thread so I think that in particular electric offense is pretty good I think that it would mostly consist of something like this.

Ampharos-Good lead and good scouter can force switches a decent amount of times probably mandatory because it is the second best way to break normal teams.
Zapdos- One of the best mons and can sweep a lot of teams once their dedicated special wall is gone due to its high attack.
Jolteon-Helps with a sweep and is the only thing that can pass out of the electrics.
Raikou-Pretty sure he is close to mandatory too because he prevents you from getting swept by shit like a growth pass mon and is probably one of the best damn special walls in the metagame.
Electabuzz/Pikachu-Electabuzz is a fearsome sweeper when its checks are gone or if it has a boost from jolt. Pikachu is also pretty scary too and it can sleep something with sing and thunder does a shitload of damage to a good chunk of things.
Electrode-I personally like electrode in this spot as its fast and can provide fast twave/ls support or be a "I screwed up button" with explosion to stop a sweep or severely damage a wall or something. Lantunr doesn't have much power behind it.

Throw in some type coverage moves in with these mons and you should be fine.

I am gonna give some of what I think are the best mons on other, lesser types in no paticular order.

Flying-Doesn't have that many good sweepers but has a good variety of mixed attackers with coverage and some strong overall attackers too. Also has arguably the best physical wall in the game. Also have a good amount of thief mons.
Zapdos- Powerful and versatile. RestTalk, screens.
Charizard-Can be BD but I think that a mixed set would be viable with sun too.
Aerodactyl-A very fast mon that is decently versatile, can run a phazer set (which is outclassed by skarmory) or just run a curse set as he is the fastest curser around. Can also run a mixed set too which is pretty decent as well.
Dragonite-Extremely versatile with its moveset can run a support or a mixed set, one of the better flying mons.
Articuno-Can be a pretty decent support mon I guess.
Fearow-Against the right team this thing could be good but seems to be mediocre for the most part.
Gyarados-Unique mixed attacker.
Jumpluff-Annoying in many ways, its fast and is a good support mon.
Moltres-Very threatening, it can act as a sun spam core with zard and dragonite.
Skarmory-Its a great phys wall and phazer.
Scyther-Is a baton passer maybe you can get it to work.
Dodrio-Decent rest-talker but very frail.
Xatu-Only psychic mon and may be viable.
Delibird-Only flying mon that can spike.

Fire-SUN SPAM
Arcanine-May be outclassed by somethings but can take some hits I guess.
Charizard-Take your pick, bd or sun.
Entei-Sunnybeam is viable due to sun being prominent in the fire types wall breaking power.
Flareon-Can pass subs or something.
Houndoom-Sunnybeam is again viable, it is also the only viable pursuit user on this type of team.
Magmar-Excelling mixed attacker is also very viable.
Moltres-Sun spam
Ninetales-Can be an annoyer
Typhlosion-Mixed attacker is pretty nice I guess.

Fighting- Limited options, is still okay. It is very sweeper heavy.
Machamp-Can run mixed or a curse set up to you.
Heracross-Can run a curse +3atks or can run standard rest-talk
Hitmonlee-Can run a meditate set and act as a sweeper second fastest fighting pokemon.
Hitmontop-Better hitmonchan, can use an rs set if you want but it might be a waste, curse counter set is what makes it viable, decent coverage
Poliwrath-Probably a late game sweeper as BD could be threatening to the right team.
Primeape-3rd best mon, it can run meditate or sub up to you.


Grass

Exeggutor - Status, Leech Seed, Explosion. Powerful STAB attacks.
Jumpluff-An annoyer, and can status mons.
Meganium-Screens support, can also acts as an SD sweeper.
Sunflora-Pretty decent sweeper, Can abuse sun if needed.
Tangela-Decent counter to some of the grounds
Venusaur-Can be a decent wall or an SD sweeper.
Victreebell-Great sweeper.
Vileplume-Stat inducer with good sludge bombs.

Ice
Articuno-Good support mon.
Cloyster- Tanks hits and is a good pokemon overall.
Dewgong-Unique mon as it can switch into a lot of things and it has encore.
Jynx-Needs to run psychic, only thing that makes ice not get straight out beat by fighting.
Lapras-Another pretty cool mon kinda like dewgong except bulkier has some good versatility.
Piloswine-He is great, can setup curses to sweep and can phaze or be a rest talker
Sneasel-Odd man out, can run a physical attacker set but thats it, very frail.
Delibird-Can be a spiker or a curse option but is another odd man out.


Poison
Arbok-Decent coverage and has access to glare too.
Ariados-Can be used as a trapper for certain mons then baton pass into a sweeper.
Gengar-So good as a mixed sweeper and trapper.
Haunter-May be viable in conjunction with its evolution, aside from that it is outclassed however.
Muk-Nice Mixed attacker, can be a curser too, great boom.
Nidoking-Very good mixed sweeper, again.
Qwilfish-Only poison spiker has curse too.
Tentacruel-Nice SD sweeper can run RS if needed.
Venemoth-Pretty decent curse sweeper.
Venuasaur-Same as in grass
Vileplume-Same as in grass
Victreebell-Same as in grass

Rock
Tyranitar-Jack of all trades mon, pretty good.
Aerodactyl-Okay, it can acts the same way as it did in flying.
Golem-Nice boom and can run mixed if needed.
Kabutops-SD sweeper should save for a lategame sweep.
Rhydon-Can run curse or mixed attacker zap cannon can slow things down for the other rock types.
Sudowoodo-Nice Curse sweeper.
Omastar-Nice tank for this team.

Bug
Ariados-He traps and passes
Butterfree-Is a double powder mon its okay.
Forretress-Good mon sets up spikes and rapid spins.
Scizor-Passes sd and could lead to something sweeping
Heracross-Good sweeper and mixed wall.
Ledian-Another Baton pass mon.
Parasect-Dual Powder and is a sd sweeper or a mixed attacker too.
Pinsir-Can be very threatening but is an okay sweeper, very frail.
Scyther-Another passer, can be used over zor if you don't want the steel typing or something faster.
Venemoth-Still a curse sweeper.


Semi-Viable Types:
Steel- 6 mons and only one of them is bad.
Dark-Has 6 mons 3 are good, 1 is ok, 2 are bad.

Unviable Types:
Dragon- 4 mons and 3 of them are bad.
Ghost- 4 mons and 1 is bad and another is just ok.


Final thoughts: Fun tier, will post more later and as kind of a type viability ranking:

1. Normal
2. Electric
3. Water
4. Psychic
5. Ground
6. Flying
7. Fire
8. Fighting
9. Grass
10. Ice
11. Poison
12. Rock
13. Bug
14. Steel
15. Dark
16. Ghost
17. Dragon
 
#10
This thread has been dead for almost two years. If people are losing to mono ice using standard teams, I assume they are playing wrong or they just don't have a full grasp of GSC yet.
 
#11
Hey there, just wanted to drop some opinions on all of this.

So you're probably wondering why few people are participating. Well, I'm sorry, but I gotta be blunt here: This looks extremely unfun and boring. The problem with old generation monotype metas, in my opinion, is that there are simply too few mons to make monotype teams that don't all look identical. As such, most teams end up looking the exact same: there is simply too little variety in each type, some of them even just barely get enough mons to fill up a full team (and a select few can't even fill up a full party).

If you want to start up an old gen monotype meta, you should try doing Gen 3 or 4. Those already have lots more creative possibilities and flexibility with teambuilding. As in, roles that aren't just spamming dual screens/Curse.
 
#12
I've been toying for a while with the idea of "extended monotype (X-Mono)" in which you can either match the team type or alternatively have a corresponding type-damage move, allowing a meta that is a lot closer to OU while still maintaining the type theme and preventing meta mons from just getting slapped on(Toxic, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Spikes etc do not qualify a mon for an X-Mono team as they don't deal type-damage).

For instance, if you were fighting a team with Forretress lead which switched out to Gengar you could assume you were fighting a Normal team and that they had rapid spin and explosion, respectively. Therefore all boom teams end up being normal teams.

If it was a Zapdos lead that switched to Cloyster turn 1, Zap is probably running HP Ice and the majority of the remaining team members must have an ice move. It could just be HP Electric on the Cloyster, or the rarer HP Water on the Zapdos, or something far more obscure. Much like standard you don't really know the archetype for sure until at least 2-3 mons have been revealed.

A problem that manifests is you can actually run any 4 moves on a mon and as long as you use only use (or randomly trigger with ST) 3 of them each game there's no evidence that you have no type-damage move as your 4th. This isn't really a problem though since even though it can't be proven, you're going to have a major disadvantage to people who run 4 moves, so these grimy mons probably wouldn't end up being that significant in a meta like GSC's. If discovered thought it'd be an instant loss/DQ.

Any thoughts?
 
#13
I've been toying for a while with the idea of "extended monotype (X-Mono)" in which you can either match the team type or alternatively have a corresponding type-damage move, allowing a meta that is a lot closer to OU while still maintaining the type theme and preventing meta mons from just getting slapped on(Toxic, Seismic Toss, Dragon Rage, Spikes etc do not qualify a mon for an X-Mono team as they don't deal type-damage).

For instance, if you were fighting a team with Forretress lead which switched out to Gengar you could assume you were fighting a Normal team and that they had rapid spin and explosion, respectively. Therefore all boom teams end up being normal teams.

If it was a Zapdos lead that switched to Cloyster turn 1, Zap is probably running HP Ice and the majority of the remaining team members must have an ice move. It could just be HP Electric on the Cloyster, or the rarer HP Water on the Zapdos, or something far more obscure. Much like standard you don't really know the archetype for sure until at least 2-3 mons have been revealed.

A problem that manifests is you can actually run any 4 moves on a mon and as long as you use only use (or randomly trigger with ST) 3 of them each game there's no evidence that you have no type-damage move as your 4th. This isn't really a problem though since even though it can't be proven, you're going to have a major disadvantage to people who run 4 moves, so these grimy mons probably wouldn't end up being that significant in a meta like GSC's. If discovered thought it'd be an instant loss/DQ.

Any thoughts?
Sounds... bad. At that point, every team will just be standard GSC teams with useless coverage hidden powers replacing good moves. In order to make it work, you would have to place a restriction on how many mons you can add with this clause. And even then, it still goes against the "spirit" of monotype.