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Most Generation PRNG Help / Information

Discussion in 'Wi-Fi' started by mingot, Mar 16, 2009.

  1. Equinox

    Equinox

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    Does that mean it will be harder to use than Emeralds?
  2. LightningFusion

    LightningFusion
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    I would say yes it's harder because if you go for a certain set and change the time, each time you fail, you have to change the time back. It's probably the same difficulty to do but you need to change time instead of SR.
  3. thetorsoboy

    thetorsoboy

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    I'm going to start breeding in Platinum soon, so I'll update you guys there. I'm really hoping that it's random, though. :(
  4. thetorsoboy

    thetorsoboy

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    It's a love-hate thing. I mean, if I learn how to manipulate it well, I don't really need to trade anymore, you know? :P Maybe just for egg move parents or something.
  5. Equinox

    Equinox

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    That was my first impression on emerald. But ill start trading them again soon. It changes, you know? Even if you can get almost everything, its still fun for personal use, and if people want you to trade, you might as well. I hope its harder to do than emerald but not too hard. just for personal fun =/
  6. brobot

    brobot

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    I feel like this is a nicholas cage movie where he is trying to solve the puzzle to get the gold
    that one uhh national treasure or whatever.

    i hate nicholas cage.
  7. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    OMG . . . I started reading the article now, but I just wanted to post my translation of the introduction:

    ChouToshio's Translation:

    Selecting For Cresselia

    Introduction:

    In emerald, the initial point (seed) is fixed at 0, but in the DS in fluctuates. Because of this, it becomes possible to aim for a specific point in time with a much shorter wait.


    This sounds like some happy shit. Basically, he's saying that because the intial point can be altered, it's easier to aim for a specific frame. This sounds like some happy shit. xD


    edit:

    Alright, after reading some more, I have to admit it's a bit confusing to me since the article's kind of assuming the reader knows a bit about emerald (and I don't), and some of the math terminology is confusing me. I'll try to figure it out in greater detail, but some important facts I thought I should put out (and I just want to say that I am only 95% sure this is what it's saying):

    -Platinum's style of writing up seeds is the same as Emeralds
    -The IVs other information is the same as Emerald for the same seed (holy shit)
    -The seed can be targeted more easily than emerald by adjusting the DS's clock, so no waiting hours and hours to get to certain spreads-- you can target them.

    Overall, I got to say this: holy shit

    I'm starving, and off to dinner now, but when I get back I'll try to read it in more detail and explain how you abuse the clock to aim for certain seeds.
  8. LightningFusion

    LightningFusion
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    I was testing this out on my platinum. I caught a gastly and wrote done a range of seconds I caught it at and found the seed for each using the program. The seed 8209000A was the one it was, because it was the only one with the same nature. When I got to the ivs, they were not the same as it was in the game. According to the guide,

    First Random Number: x|xxxxx|xxxxx|xxxxx
    -|DefIV|AtkIV|HP IV
    The gastly I caught IVs were 17/5/23/22/10/26 (HP/A/D/SA/SD/Spe)

    My binary number is :
    1|01110|10101|01011

    which produces 14|21|11, not the IVs I got.

    If instead you keep the first number, I noticed it results

    10111|01010|101011

    which produces 23|10|x

    This way results in two correct IVs, Def and S Def. The last 6 numbers, no matter which 5 you choose ( keeping them in order obviously) do not create a third IV.

    All the IVs, beside the HP IV, can be created by deleting one number in the first binary number. The HP IV can be created in the second random number

    1100001110000011

    by deleting a zero

    1|100|0|01|110000011

    No other IV can be created in the second random number line except by deleting 2 or more numbers.

    I'll try and catch a pokemon later today, and see if the IVs form a pattern.
  9. mingot

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    I'd be happy to explain any of this to you in detail or fill in some of the blanks with the math that is probably being talked about.

    Actually it's not so much the time you caught it at, but the time you "Continue" from that screen which determines the seed. Additionally the hard part here is that the amount of time you spend on the continue screen also skews the starting seed.

    I would imagine you will need to get it down to a 2 or 3 second range and then also estimate the time you spent on the continue screen to within about 10 or so frames. So you really should be generating 30 or so lists of frames to about 2000 each. This gives you a lot of time to catch something.

    The RNG could very will still be running at some fixed frequency, as it does with emerald, so your seed would not in fact be the PID of the pokemon, but some other number a little furthur down the chain.

    There are a few other things you can do to find the actual PID of what you caught:

    1. pokesav inspection (look at the pokemon in pokesav)
    2. plug the ivs into xacts ivs to pid application
    3. use emloop to find that method 1 spread.

    Assuming your Gastly was Naive here should be the actual pid:
    PID: 2734719589 [A3008265] | Created by Method 1 | Gender Number: 101 | Ability: 1

    I think this is because your initial number was not actually the pid :(
  10. LightningFusion

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    You are right. I messed up on the continue screen part.

    How can you estimate how many frames you spent on it?

    Also, how is the platinum RNG different from D/P RNG?
  11. mingot

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    For estimation on how many frames on continue it is supposed to be about 60 per second. So if you stay on it for exactly one second it should be around 60. I am hoping Chou comes up with something on the "how to actually exploit this" front because it seems like way too much stuff to set up.

    Also, faq question #1 "how is it different".
  12. LightningFusion

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    Is it possible to catch a pokemon, write down all of it's info (time caught) that is needed for the formula and find out it's PID. Once you have the PID, you have ever variable for the formula except X, so you can solve for it.

    If so, wouldn't this make it easier to find pokemon with certain IV's.
    Can Misdreavus make a program where you enter pid instead of x then?
  13. mingot

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    Time caught is not part of the forumla for the seed.

    Time at the instant you hit "continue" is.
  14. Chou Toshio

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    Can anyone explain to me how you get 2fd8 out of 2099 - 2000 + x?
  15. Equinox

    Equinox

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    Wait, so Chou, are you saying that it says the IVs are generated the same way, but with different timing? Meaning the spreads are the same etc? Its somewhat hard to follow, or its just me -.-;;;
  16. Shelcario

    Shelcario

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    If this is true then we'll be able to get near perfect 4th gen. pokemon, super awesome:)
  17. mingot

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    Hrm, well the 2fd8 is hexadecimal.

    I sorta kinda explained what it was in a post earlier, but I can explain it better via msn/aim.

    One question, though.

    Early on it lists the formula for the seed as year - 2000 + X (X = seconds you spend on continue screen multiplied by 60). Wonder what this 2099 - 2000 is all about...
  18. VileTung

    VileTung

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    Could someone confirm this?

    For example, I want to hit 24-03-2009 10:05:30 with 600 frames, and it's 24-03-2009 10:05:00 when I'm a the continue screen.

    1. First start the game, after the START button is pressed, the frame is counting, I wait 10 seconds (600:60=10). After the 10 seconds are passed I press A to continue the game.
    2. Now I have waited 10 seconds, but I still need to wait 20 seconds, after 20 seconds I start the battle.
    3. I get a IV spread, so I can do it over and over and over to get the same spread if I follow step 1 and step 2?
    Am I correct?
  19. Pink

    Pink

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    If this happens, Trophy Cases are going to die out, and many people are going to leave Wi-fi altogether. I'm not really looking forward to this, if this is true, tbh. I guess now we can all get flawlesses with little work compared to D/P breeding... But where's the fun?

    W/e. Keep up the good work guys. Chou and Mingot, you two should team up and work out the details of that JP article. You two together would make short work of it.
  20. LightningFusion

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    Vliegtuig: I believe you are correct. Each time you would have to change your ds clock but I think it would still work.
  21. Wiil

    Wiil

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    I just beat Platinum, so if there's any way I can help out, let me know. Don't know much about the mechanics of it all, but I can test things.
  22. mingot

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    There were some posts about delay affecting the frame of fished Pokemon, so I have started to do some research. To eliminate as many variables as possible this was done with no runners out and all "not even a nibble" messages were soft reset upon. That will be tested later.

    So far the results are indicating that there is NO CORRELATION between delay and initial frame.

    If anyone wants to pick a different permutation of these tests let me know. Otherwise, I'll just plod on. A reliable tester indicated he got a different starting frame fishing in a cave, so that's a suspect. D/P probably also have to be "just in case" tested, but a smaller number. Good and Super rods need a go. Not a nibble and wanderers, too. Whew.

    Fishing
    Old Rod
    Platinum
    Lake Valor
    Standing on Land
    No Synchronizer
    No Wandering Pokemon


    1 ------
    Delay 610
    Frame 4

    2 ------
    Delay 630
    Frame 4

    3 ------
    Delay 634
    Frame 4

    4 ------
    Delay 610
    Frame 4

    5 ------
    Delay 616
    Frame 4

    Flip to ODD delays.

    6 ------
    Delay 637
    Frame 4

    7 ------
    Delay 617
    Frame 4

    8 ------
    Delay 619
    Frame 4

    9 ------
    Delay 1147
    Frame 4

    10 ------
    Delay 645
    Frame 4
  23. Jayson

    Jayson

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    I only have the japanese platinum, but i will get and english copy soon and beat it shortly after.... so i guess i can try to help w/ the testing of the theorys...
  24. Syberia

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    I just beat Platinum too (was careful to leave all my legendaries untouched), so I'd be happy to help test as well
  25. TDS

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    Does Synchronize work to narrow down spreads? Is it possible to leave giratina untouched for testing later on? Ill be testing what i can later on

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