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Discussion in 'BW NU' started by JCM., Apr 1, 2013.

  1. JCM.


    Jun 28, 2012
    135 / 85 / 40 / 40 / 85 / 5

    • Pickup
    • Thick Fat
    • Gluttony

    Notable moves:
    • Curse
    • Body Slam
    • Toxic
    • Protect
    • Rest
    • Sleep Talk
    • Whirlwind

    Munchlax is an interesting Pokemon, but it seems outclassed as a Special Wall by Lickilicky, but it isn't always the case. Munchlax gets Thick Fat and Eviolite, making him a great Special Wall as it can take a lot of hits. It can even try to go Offensive with Curse, although it'll need a lot of boosts to be able to take strong Physical hits.
  2. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jan 13, 2012
    Yeah, I'm very exicted for the Munchlax drop, probably even more so than the other 2. With Munchlax and Musharna, they will form a very good walling combination, with all of the physical hits that threaten munchlax can be handled pretty well with musharna, while all special attackin pokes cannot really touch Munchlax. I think the biggest hit in nu on the special side against munchlax is 48-55% from a choice specs focus blast gardevoir, so i think munchlax will be a very reliable special wall. Plus, musharna can heal bell rests off of munchlax if needed. I think i might go with toxic/ rest/ whirlwind/ body slam or return as opposed to the standard set, but not sure. Problem with this set, unlike the most infamous 2 man wall core (alomomonguss) is the weakness to hazards, which might be more prevalent with scolipede.
  3. Celever


    Sep 25, 2012
    "as a Special Wall by Lickilicky, who can phaze, has Body Slam"

    "Notable moves:
    Body Slam
    Sleep Talk


    Anyway, this guy has finally dropped from RU, just to pull a stoutland and never be used here. Hopefully.

    I can see more psychic types running psyshock because of this thing, but that's about all the impact it will have on the metagame imo.
  4. cuckoos


    Sep 5, 2009
    Munchlax is definitely going to be one of the more controversial drops this month. He was almost unanimously regarded as one of the worst Pokemon in his former tier, and for quite a few reasons. Despite Munchlax's absurd special bulk with Eviolite, its Defense was pitiable, it didn't have reliable recovery, it couldn't provide residual damage, and it lacked any form of real team support apart from phazing: a talent that proved nearly feckless in a tier FULL of right-off-the-bat physical hard hitters such as Entei, Escavalier, and Poliwrath. It seems as though Munchlax was built for thwarting Special Sweepers via phazing, but was instead placed in a tier where Physical threats could easily pick Munchlax off and where special attackers could easily wear it down due to its lack of reliable recovery.

    With this in mind, one could easily say that Munchlax will do even worse in NU. One of the most ubiquitous and dangerous physical Pokemon in the tier is the Fighting-type Sawk, followed by Zangoose, Braviary, Kangaskhan, Gurdurr, and Sawsbuck, all of which commonly carry super-effective Fighting-type moves with which to nail Munchlax. However, set-up Special Sweepers (and even Special Sweepers in general) are perhaps even more popular than the latter. Munchlax is a complete stop to massive threats such as Musharna, Ludicolo, Special Samurott, Scarf Gardevoir, Gorebyss, and Exeggutor through its gigantic special bulk and ability to phaze. Because of this alone, Munchlax will be much more popular in NU than it was in RU. However, its lack of recovery, inability to cause residual damage, and bad Defense still hurts it a lot.

    In conclusion, Munchlax definitely has a niche in the current metagame but it dies to a lot of common physical threats, which makes it less notable overall. I'll probably try out Munchlax on a Stall team, as its walling ability is a huge boon to the playstyle.
  5. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest It's Showtime! Are you ready?
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 5, 2012
    I'm interested to see how Munchlax will fare in NU. It was absolutely atrocious in RU, mostly because most relevant special attackers carry Focus Blast. The other thing is that physical attackers are big and plentiful. That said, I do think Munchlax will very much be decent in NU, as not many special attackers can break through Munchlax, and he can also absorb sleep and phaze with Whirlwind (racking up hazard damage). I'm excited to try Misdreavus+Munchlax, with their great defensive synergy, not to mention they both like hazards, as Missy can spinblock, and Munchie can phaze and rack up the damage. I'll prolly try 'em in conjunction with Roselia or Garbodor; it'll be fun.

    Anyways, I'm sure it'll be decent.
  6. NfskMjmMal


    Jan 1, 2013
    One of the things Munchlax appreciates is hazard support because of his infamous phasing set. Therefore, for this less obvious reason, Munchlax fares better in NU because RU has way better spinners than NU. However, I still don't think Munchlax will be that good. It's pretty gimmicky and a lot of things can still beat it. However, I think ScraftyIsTheBest is on the right idea, as Munchlax brings opportunities for interesting new cores. I think the fact that Munchlax can wall things like Musharna, Ludicolo, Exeggutor, and Charizard will appeal to a good number of people, but again, it needs all 4 layers of hazards to really do much. Happy April Fools
  7. KingNeedlesThe1st


    Jan 25, 2013
    I think Munchlax will be hard pressed to find a niche as a specially defensive Normal type alongside Lickilicky, who has Lefties, semi-reliable recovery, and Heal Bell in addition to being able to phaze. It does take special attacks better than Licky, though, thanks to Thick Fat and Evio, especially from the likes of Ludicolo.
  8. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Apr 22, 2012
    He's right, change your op jcm and add curse to notable moves, far more interesting than stockpile imo. In fact, curse might seem like the most viable munchlax set. It's special bulk is so ridiculous, it can take several hits from even special samurott and with a curse or 2, it should be able to take some non-fighting hits on the physical side too. Although primeape now in the tier might seem like a terrible thing for curse munchlax, it might reduce the number of scarf rotoms that would normaly trick curse munchlax.

    Munchlax is definately the least interesting drop of the 4 but I still think it has some sort of potential in NU, I'll have to test it to confirm.
  9. Emerld Shuckle

    Emerld Shuckle

    Apr 10, 2013
    I'm using Munchlax as a Whirlwind user after i set up a bunch of entry hazards with Dwebble.

    Munchlax (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Whirlwind
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest

    This thing is absolutely amazing. Once I get Stealth Rocks and at least one layer of spikes up, I can just spam Whirlwind and win. Muchlax I think outclasses Lickiliky because Munchlax can phase pokes that are behind a sub and uses an 100% accurate move, whereas if you can get a sub against Lickiliky, he can't phase you (that is, if you're bulky) and Dragon Tail might miss.
  10. FortressDoor


    Nov 15, 2012
    That is really Munchlax's best set.

    And you win if the team isn't carrying something that can OHKO Munchlax, which is a big stretch. And Sleep Talk is pretty unreliable, as you could very well end up with Rest again. That set is good, but Lickylicky has a lot of perks over it, like causing more damage, and some pretty recovery with Wish+Protect
  11. Emerld Shuckle

    Emerld Shuckle

    Apr 10, 2013
    I'm not sure if there's much that can OHKO this Munchlax set (at least as far as unboosted moves go, which considering it has whirlwind, is pretty useless). Maybe CB Sawk, but who uses that? Unless that was the point you were trying to make and I totally misread your post.
  12. jmorris


    Dec 29, 2012
    Personally I like using CB Sawk, it makes a great antilead, and can really punch holes through things while your opponent is trying to set up in the early stages of the game.

    I ran CB Sawk through the calculator out of curiosity:
    252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 552-650 (134.3 - 158.15%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Then there's these guys:
    252 Atk Sawk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 338-398 (82.23 - 96.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    There's a 62.5% chance of a 2HKO with CS Sawk after Munchlax switches into Stealth Rock, although why you would want to switch into that I have no idea.

    252 Atk Primeape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Munchlax: 300-354 (72.99 - 86.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    I think as long as you carry something that can muscle through Munchlax's defenses, or have something with Taunt, or even lay down your own hazards it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

    Also Lickylicky isn't totaly outclassed by Muchlax. It has far more utility, being able to support the team with Heal Bell + Wish, as well as Phazing with Dragon Tail. It might only have 90 accuracy but there's always the chance Sleep Talk will select Rest instead of Whirlwind.
  13. Emerld Shuckle

    Emerld Shuckle

    Apr 10, 2013
    I think I could easily see a great core of Munchlax and Misdreavous. I've been testing it out and it works. Physically defensive Misdreavous walls all of Muchlaxes biggest threats, barring Golurk with Shadow Punch.

    Also you don't have to be asleep with Munchlax. You can totally spam Whirlwind while you're awake, so I'm not sure why you are assuming that Munchlax is asleep with this.
  14. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

    Aug 1, 2012
    Really, Munchlax is definitely not something that I consider to be overwhelmingly good. Despite its bulk, it's not any better than Lickilicky which outclasses it. Lickilicky has access to Leftovers recovery and Wish over Rest, which is pretty good already, increasing the longevity of the Pokemon by a lot. Munchlax also won't be able to take many hits from the hard physical hitters in NU previously posted by other users. Munchlax isn't garbage though; it gets some interesting stuff such as it's really nice Special Defense, although a lot of Psychics gets Psyshock which you know ignores Special Defense. Munchlax isn't as good as phaser as other Pokemons though; due to it's lack of reliable recovery and I'm not so sure on relying on Sleep Talk when you could very easily die to a physical move. Despite Munchlax's sheer bulk, I will probably use Lickilicky in most of my teams.
  15. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Feb 4, 2013
    Well with Jynx dropping, it does have a new niche, but I don't think it'll do too well. Probably better than Stoutland, though.

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