1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Murkrow (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by MikeDecIsHere, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,590
    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>Murkrow has always been outclassed in previous generations; however, in this generation, the black bird was given some buffs, namely Prankster and Eviolite. Eviolite greatly boosts Murkrow's lackluster 60 / 42 / 42 defenses into something much more manageable. With Prankster, Murkrow has access to priority Taunt, FeatherDance, Roost, Thunder Wave, and Perish Song, making the little crow an ideal stallbreaker. However, Murkrow is definitely not without its flaws, as even with Eviolite, its defenses are still subpar. Its typing is also not the best defensively speaking, as it leaves it weak to many common attacking types and neutral to Fighting-type moves. However, Murkrow is definitely the Pokemon to use, should you ever be in need of a stallbreaker.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Perish Trapper
    move 1: Mean Look
    move 2: Perish Song
    move 3: Roost
    move 4: Protect / Substitute
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Murkrow fills the niche of being the only Prankster Pokemon that is able to Perish Trap. The strategy of this set is to trap one of your opponent's Pokemon, preferably a wall that your team has trouble with, and proceed to Perish Song, causing them to faint in three turns. Roost is essential, as Murkrow needs to be alive in order for Mean Look to remain in effect and prevent your opponent from switching out. The fourth moveslot is essentially a toss-up between Protect and Substitute. Protect is a guaranteed way to burn off a turn, making it the more reliable choice; however, Substitute keeps Murkrow status free, which allows it to possibly come in late-game and Perish Trap another Pokemon into oblivion.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>You can choose to make Murkrow either physically or specially bulky, since its defenses are the same. Investing in Murkrow's physical defenses tends to be the more popular option, but a 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD EV spread with a Calm nature is viable. A specially defensive spread allows Murkrow to reliably check Choice Specs Exeggutor, something not a lot of other Pokemon can claim. The nature should always be an attack-reducing nature in order to minimize possible confusion recoil. Taunt or FeatherDance are options for the fourth moveslot, but they are more often than not the inferior option. The main draw to using Perish Trap Murkrow is its ability to reliably eliminate a wall from the opponent's team, so including a Pokemon that can sweep once a problem wall is gone would be a good idea. An example of a good teammate would be Swellow who can sweep once the opponent's physical wall is KOed. Murkrow is easily capable of trapping and KOing Probopass, Metang, Alomomola, and Bastiodon, opening a sweep for Swellow.</p>

    [SET]
    name: FeatherDance
    move 1: FeatherDance
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Brave Bird
    move 4: Taunt / Substitute
    item: Eviolite
    nature: Impish
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Eviolite and priority FeatherDance, Murkrow is capable of being a fairly decent physical wall, capable of shutting down some scary threats such as Sawk. FeatherDance lowers the opponent's attack by two stages, which easily patches up Murkrow's lackluster base 42 Defense. Roost is there to make sure that Murkrow is in good health, as it can't take too many hits even with FeatherDance. Taunt is there in order to shut down Pokemon who utilize set-up moves, such as Cacturne and Tangela, while Brave Bird prevents Murkrow itself from being Taunt bait. Substitute is a viable alternative over Taunt, as it helps Murkrow scout the opponent's moveset and easily prevents any status effects.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is designed to make Murkrow as physically bulky as possible, which works great in tandem with FeatherDance. 248 HP EVs gives Murkrow an odd HP number so it can switch into Stealth Rock four times. Murkrow users still need to be wary of switching into physical attackers, as a strong super effective hit will really put a dent in Murkrow, even with Eviolite, due to its poor defenses.</p>

    <p>In terms of other options for this set, Thunder Wave can be used over Taunt in order to cripple Gorebyss if it finds a way to set up. However, a Murkrow that lacks Taunt is basically set-up fodder for Spikes users such as Cacturne, so Taunt is usually the better option.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Murkrow has access to a ton of support moves. Confuse Ray is an interesting choice, as it prevents your opponent from attacking 50% of the time. Murkrow also has access to Haze, which can make Murkrow a good phazer. However, the most deadly set-up sweeper in the tier at the moment is Gorebyss, and Murkrow doesn't enjoy taking even a neutral hit from it. Murkrow can also function as a weather inducer, but as Murkrow is unable to utilize Damp or Heat Rock while holding Eviolite, it is usually outclassed. Finally, Tailwind or Thunder Wave can be used for team support, the latter being a good way to cripple Gorebyss if it manages to get off a Shell Smash.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While Murkrow is a decent wall, it isn't very hard to muscle your way through it. Any Pokemon with a powerful super effective move, especially a special one, has a good chance of beating Murkrow. Pokemon such as Eelektross, Rotom-F, and Beartic all stand a good chance of beating Murkrow, as Murkrow really can't switch in on any of these Pokemon. For the Perish Trapping set, any Pokemon with Volt Switch or U-turn will end Murkrow's games very quickly, as both avoid the effects of Mean Look. Finally, Taunt will completely ruin Murkrow. If you can Taunt Murkrow as it switches in, then you are almost guaranteed to have rendered Murkrow useless.</p>
  2. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,590
    I think the Perish Trapping set is the only set worth mentioning. I could add a FeatherDance/ Toxic Stall set if need be, but this set seems to be the only one out there that's worth running at the moment
  3. tennisace

    tennisace I love you wonderful Minun-kun!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,935
    I've played extensively with a set of:

    Murkrow@Eviolite
    (i'll look up the EVs/Nature)
    -Featherdance
    -Roost
    -Brave Bird
    -Taunt

    Shuts down Fighting-types like Sawk/Throh and Grass-types like Roselia/Exeggutor. Brave Bird is better than Toxic because you beat Roselia that way. It's a really really great set, I encourage you to try it before writing the rest of the analysis.

    Also I think a weather starter deserves a set, you could run something like:

    -Rain Dance/Sunny Day
    -Taunt
    -Roost
    -Featherdance/Toxic

    For a longer-lasting weather setter that can come in and deal with various threats (such as bulky grass-types on a Rain team).

    Finally I've heard talk of a mixed attacking set since Murkrow's stats aren't terrible (Base 91 speed is quite good in NU), but I haven't ever seen or tried one.
  4. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,856
    i ran an offensive LO set in the past, it did neat little thing such as 2hko klinklang on the switch in and cripple rhydon, maybe worth an OO mention?
  5. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    Offensive Murkrow has some merit. It's got a good speed tier and access to good physical STAB at least, as well as priority Thunder Wave to neuter fast revenge killers. Alternatively it could just run Heat Wave with Insomnia, Brave Bird must do a number on Roselia so it makes a pretty good last minute check. I'd give it an OO mention at least, since this is the best tier for Murkrow to try an offensive set in other than LC.
  6. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
    SubRoost is probably viable as well.
  7. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    Also, a little nitpick. Non-attacking sets should use a Bold nature to reduce confusion and Foul Play damage. It's minimal admittedly but there's absolutely no reason not to.
  8. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,590
    Changed Nature to Bold.

    @ Tennisace: I will test the FeatherDance set that you mentioned before I write it up. Do you have any suggested EV spreads?

    I was also thinking of a weather inducer set. I'll look into it.

    I'll also throw Mixed Offensive into other options
  9. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Toxic Stall might be worth a shot too, as there aren't that many Steels in NU. I haven't played much with Murkrow, so I'll get back to you on that.
  10. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
    Seeing as it can't carry Eviolite and Damp / Heat Rock, I don't think a weather inducer set is good enough to get beyond OO.
  11. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,590
    I've been testing the FeatherDance set, and I have to say it's been quite underwhelming. Murkrow really lacks the bulk to properly abuse FeatherDance, and Roost canceling out its Flying Type means that Close Combat still does a nice chunk of damage. Perhaps I'm not using the right spread, but I've been using 252 HP 252 Def with an Impish Nature.

    Of course, I could be using it without the proper team support, but that's just my opinion :/
  12. tennisace

    tennisace I love you wonderful Minun-kun!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,935
    Im not on my computer right now but i'll get some logs of it and/or get other qc to test with me. Ive had quite a bit more success with it than one would expect. Ill also get back to you on the spread.
  13. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,590
  14. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,459
    I have tried feather dance set in both OU and UU and it worked great to me. Its awesome at stopping things like (for example) leafeon, who you can shut down with taunt+feather dance and etc etc. Gurdurr struggles too, 'cos with 2 feather dances you will be able to roost without fearing drain punch and etc.

    Definitely should be on analysis.
  15. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,590
    Ok, while I personally find the set underwhelming, I will add in the FeatherDance Murkrow set. Before I add it, I want to make sure this is correct:

    [SET]
    Name: FeatherDancer
    Move 1: FeatherDance
    Move 2: Roost
    Move 3: Taunt / Substitute
    Move 4: Brave Bird / Thunder Wave
    Item: Eviolite
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
  16. tennisace

    tennisace I love you wonderful Minun-kun!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,935
    Brave Bird should be in the third slot alone, Taunt/Sub in the fourth but yes that's right.
  17. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,590
    edited and updated
  18. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,590
  19. tennisace

    tennisace I love you wonderful Minun-kun!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,935
    Personally I think the Featherdance set should be the first set since its the only one I see but we can let the usage stats in a couple days decide that.

    [​IMG]
  20. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    I personally think PerishTrap is better but w/e

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  21. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
    Tentatively stamping this. I still think some kind of offensive set might be viable, but that can always be uploaded separately.

    [​IMG]
  22. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,590
    once the usage stats come out, we'll figure out the order of the sets
  23. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,590
    ok, this is all written up and ready for GP approval
  24. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,592
    placeholder for amateur check

    add
    remove
    other (comments)

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>Murkrow has always been outclassed in previous gens. However generations; however, this generation, Game Freak decided to give the black bird was given some buffs, namely Prankster and Eviolite. With Eviolite, Murkrow fixes its mediocre 60 / 42 / 42 defenses into a something much more manageable 60 / 83.5 / 83.5 (see below post). With Prankster, Murkrow has access to priority Taunt, FeatherDance, Roost, Thunder Wave, and Perish Song, making the little crow an ideal stallbreaker. However, Murkrow is definitely not without its flaws, as even with Eviolite, its defenses are still subpar. It's Its typing is also not the best defensive type, as Flying leaves it weak to key attacking moves while Dark makes it neutral to Fighting. However, Murkrow is definitely the Pokemon to go to if you want need a stallbreaker.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Perish Trapper
    move 1: Mean Look
    move 2: Perish Song
    move 3: Roost
    move 4: Protect / Substitute
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [Set Comments]

    <p>Murkrow has a niche for being the only Prankster Pokemon able to Perish Trap. The strategy of this set is to trap in one of your opponent'(apos.)s Pokemon, preferably a wall that your team has trouble with, and proceed to Perish Song, causing them to faint in three turns. Roost is essential, as Murkrow needs to be alive in order for Mean Look to remain in effect and prevent your opponent from switching out. The fourth moveslot is essentially a toss-up between Protect and Substitute Roost. Protect is a guaranteed way to burn off a turn, making it the more reliable choice.(period); however, Substitute keeps Murkrow status free, allowing it to possibly come in late-game and Perish Trap another Pokemon into oblivion.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>You can choose to make Murkrow either physically or specially bulky, since its defenses are the same. Physical Defenses tend Investing in Murkrow's physical defenses tends to be the more popular option, but a 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD EV Calm spread with a Calm nature is viable. The nature should always be an attack-reducing nature,(comma) though,(though) in order to minimize possible confusion recoil. Taunt or FeatherDance are options for the fourth moveslot, but they more often than not tend to be the inferior option.(period)</p>

    [SET]
    name: FeatherDancer
    move 1: FeatherDance
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Brave Bird
    move 4: Taunt / Substitute
    item: Eviolite
    nNature: Impish
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [Set Comments]

    <p>With Eviolite and priority FeatherDance, Murkrow is capable of being a fairly decent physical wall, capable of shutting down some scary threats like such as Sawk. FeatherDance lowers the opponent's attack by two stages, which easily patches up Murkrow's lackluster base 42 Base Defense. Roost is there to make sure that Murkrow is in good health, as it still can't take too many hits even with FeatherDance. Taunt is there to shut down set up Pokemon who utilize set-up moves, such as like Cacturne and Tangela, while Brave Bird prevents Murkrow itself from being Taunt bait. Substitute is a viable alternative over Taunt, as it scouts the opponent's moveset or switches (switches? what do you mean here?) while easily preventing status effects.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>The EV spread is designed to make Murkrow as physically bulky as possible, which works great in tandem with FeatherDance. 248 HP EVs gives Murkrow an odd HP number so it can switch into Stealth Rock four 4 times. Murkrow users still need to be wary of switching into physical attackers, as a strong super effective hit will really put a dent in Murkrow due to its poor defenses, even with Eviolite.</p>

    <p>In terms of other options for this set, Thunder Wave can be used over Taunt in order to have a way to cripple Gorebyss if it finds a way to set up. However, a Taunt-less Murkrow that lacks Taunt is basically set-up fodder for Spikers like Spike users such as Cacturne, so Taunt is usually the better option.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Murkrow has access to a ton of support moves. Confuse Ray is an interesting choice,(comma) as it prevents your opponent from attacking 50% of the time. Murkrow also has access to Haze, which can make Murkrow a pseudo-phazer. However, the most deadly set-up sweeper in the tier at the moment is Gorebyss, and Murkrow doesn't enjoy taking even a neutral hit from it even really like to take a Neutral hit from that. Murkrow can also function as a weather inducer, but since it can't use the Weather Rocks with Eviolite, this is usually an inferior option but as Murkrow is unable to utilize the weather Rocks, it is usually outclassed. While rarely seen, Murkrow can also be a mixed offensive attacker with Brave Bird / Heat Wave / Roost / Filler, since it has fairly decent offensive stats and base 91 Speed is fairly fast in NU. Finally, Tailwind or Thunder Wave can be used for team support, the latter being a good way to cripple Gorebyss if it manages to get off a Shell Smash.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While Murkrow is a fairly decent wall, it isn't very hard to muscle your way through it. Any Pokemon with a powerful super effective move, especially a specially based one, has a good chance of beating Murkrow. Pokemon like such as Eelektross, Rotom, and Beartic all stand a good chance of beating Murkrow, as Murkrow really can't switch in on any of these Pokemon. <merge> For the Perish Trapping set, any Pokemon with Volt Switch or U-turn will end Murkrow's games very quickly, as they both avoid the effects of Mean Look. Finally, Taunt will more likely than not completely ruin Murkrow. If you can Taunt Murkrow as it switches in, then more likely than not you have left you are almost guaranteed to have rendered (redundancy) Murkrow useless.</p>

    done
  25. V0x

    V0x o:
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,878
    I'm curious where 60/83.5/83.5 comes from, since that would mean both defenses were fully invested right? I'm not sure, I'm not up on my base stats calculations. Perhaps just leave it at manageable as to not leave the wrong impression?

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)