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My first team

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Emmo, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. Emmo


    Dec 19, 2012
    Hi,probably sorry for the bad english because i'm italian
    Now go with the team:

    Mienshao @ Life Orb
    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpA

    Hi Jump Kick
    Hidden Power Ice
    Fake Out

    I choose mienshao for starter because he can easily destroy to many opponent starter pokemon like ninetales,politoed,tyranitar; I very like him also thank to his ability which is fantastis with U-Turn.
    HP Ice is an amazing move on this set because I can easily make damage to dragons and landorus or every pokemon who is weakness to ice, Hi Jump Kick is my main stab, fake out is for break focus sash and sturdy

    Tangrowth @ Leftovers
    252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef

    Giga Drain
    Hidden Power Fire
    Leech Seed/Knock Off
    Sleep Powder

    I very like this pokemon for his high def and also too much HP, he received an amazing ability from DW and I want to try him and it is fantastic.
    Giga drain i for have a bit more recovery and for hit pokemon such keldeo,terrakion,starmie,rotom-W,politoed and also more,HP fire guaranted me a good coverage to scizor,ferrothorn and other steel and grass pokemon.
    Sleep powder is a must and for the last slot I don't know, I need opinion

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    252 Spe/252 SpA/4 HP

    Ice Beam
    Rapid Spin

    Classic set of starmie, rapid spin is for remove hazards, Surf s my main stab and can destroy pokemon like gliscor, thunderbolt is for water and flying pokemon which are very common in the current metagame and ice beam is basically for dragons.
    Leftovers is for more recovery but I think that I can give him life orb instead

    Blissey @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    4 HP/252 Def/252 SpDef

    Stealth Rock
    Seismic Toss

    Blissey with his astronomic special defense allow me to take to many special move from pokemon like latias,latios,volcarona.
    He set up stealth rock and can toxic my opponent pokemon, seismic toss is for attack.
    He is good with tangrowth because he can take special attack direct to tangrowth him and tangowth can take fight move direct to blissey.
    He has a big role for the team because i really need a pokemon with an high special defense because scizor,salamence,tangrowth and mienshao ha a very low special defense

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    252 Spe/252 Atk/4 SpA

    Dragon Claw
    Fire Blast

    He is my revenge killer and his is monster with moxie and scarf he can easily destroy a team with dragon claw:
    Outrage is my main stab and dragon claw is for don't become confused, fire blast is basically for ferrothorn and earhquake is for more good coverage

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    252 Atk/248 HP/8 SpDef

    Bullet Punch

    Classi set for scizor, not to much say about him because everyone know scizor.
    U-Turn is a fantastic move and it is my main stab stab, bullet punch with technician and choice band can destroy to many pokemon, pursuit is basically for celebi,reuniclus,espeon,slowbro,latio and latias and superpower letterally destroy ferrothorn and tyranitar

    Every change is accepted but I very love Tangrowth, please don't remove it.

    P.S. I'll add the picture of starmie and blissey tomorrow because now I don't have time
  2. Leftiez

    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Jan 21, 2012
    Hi Emmo.
    Welcome on Smogon, this is a very solid team with a pokemon that I like much (Tangrowth) this pokemon is a very good staller, it can tank many physical sweeper then with capacity special regenerator, it can go back, I can't really rate your team it is very correct, but I see a weakness against Sableye, it has will o wisp + Recover/Taunt, You can not toxic or sleep powder and Scizor does not kill with bullet punch, then it can recover and start over, Sableye has also Night Shade, I suggest you put Heatran on Mienshao , Heatran is a very good counter for Sableye can come on Will O Wisp with its special ability Flash fire, and do not die on foul play/Night Shade easily, and Heatran is your only against the Hail's team because you can not come on Abomasnow/Kyurem correctly and now you can also come on Skarmory because even if Salamence has Fire Blast it does not roost, and then the opponent can switch to kill him after, Starmie also cannot kill him properly because it does not Recover, and Skarmory 2HKO Starmie with Brave Bird.
    0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 123-145 (46.94 - 55.34%) - 74.22% chance to 2HKO

    Show Hide
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 200 HP / 144 SDef / 164 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Lava Plume
    - Earth Power

    Hope I Helped, Good Luck and Good Team again.

    I like your team, it is solid, then I put a "like"
  3. Kidogo


    Feb 11, 2012
    Well, aside from the things Jirachi mentioned, this team actually looks pretty good. The main issue to me is that I don't really see what your goal with the team is--you have a very nice scouting core with mienshao and scizor, and a solid defensive core with blissey and tangrowth (physical + special wall). The thing is, you're not really fully committed to either, and both need some more support to help make them work. I'll give some suggestions depending on which team build you want to go with.
    If you want to go the more offensive route with a volturn strategy:
    You NEED hazards. That is the whole point of volturn--get hazards up early game and then spam scouting moves to wear down counters. A spinner is also great on this type of team--starmie definitely fits well, but I'd suggest a bulkier set, which I'll come back to below. Moxiemence is a great finisher for the team, so you're good there. In this case, I would suggest getting rid of blissey--it's very bulky, but it has 0 offensive presence and every time you send it out the opponent can take control of the momentum. Maybe try something like Jirachi instead--a SpD set is very good, and it can set up rocks, use toxic (if you want that, I'd suggest paralysis support), heal itself and the team with wish, and even join the scouting core with u-turn. A good set would look like this:
    Show Hide
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 236 HP / 252 SDef / 20 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wish
    - Toxic / Body Slam / Thunder Wave
    - Protect / Iron Head / U-turn

    EVs here max HP to a lefties number, max SpD, and conveniently enough speed to beat stuff like adamant breloom and pokes trying to outspeed it by one point. Stealth Rock is stealth rock, wish allows you to heal yourself and teammates. There are a few options for the last two slots. You can go for paralysis or toxic--rachi is famous for its ability to spread paralysis, but you may prefer the wall-breaking ability of toxic. If you choose paralysis, Body Slam and Thunder Wave are both good options--one does some extra damage and hits grounds, while the other has a 100% effect rate, so whichever you prefer. The last slot is fairly up-for-grabs. protect is always useful to guarantee wishes and to scout for stuff, but less recommended if you're using paralysis--if so, it's usually better just to hit the target with iron head since you'll be faster and have a 70% chance of getting the wish off. With toxic though, wish > iron head mostly. Another option is U-turn--if it's less important to you to keep rachi healthy and more important to keep momentum going, u-turn is a great option. It also forms a pretty cool combo with wish, since rachi can wish, take a hit, and then u-turn out to a frail poke. If you choose u-turn, it's worth considering taking away some speed EVs to underspeed targets in that speed range. Anyway, these last two slots will mostly come down to personal preference and how you want the team to play--u-turn is a bit of a more offensive take, whereas wish + protect will guarantee rachi's survival better.
    Tangrowth is very cool and all, and I get if you want to keep him. One possibility would be changing him to celebi--if you make the rachi switch above, you'll have nmo status absorber, which celebi gives. Celebi is also way way faster than tangrowth, and can be EVed to be almost as defensive. While it doesn't have regenerator, it has reliable recovery, something tangrowth would die for, and can even keep up your momentum with u-turn or BP. A possible set might look like:
    Show Hide
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 236 HP / 248 Def / 24 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Recover
    - Psychic / Giga Drain
    - HP [fire]
    - U-turn / Baton Pass

    EVs are similar to rachi's but physically oriented, with one more point in speed to make up for the IV drop from HP fire. Recover is a great recovery move, you have psychic or giga drain for STAB. I prefer psychic, especially since you have recover and so don't need the healing from giga as much, but your choice. HP [fire] works well on celebi as well to get those scizors etc. Finally, U-turn / Baton Pass allows you to keep up momentum. U-turn does a bit of damage, BP allows you to escape from pursuit, whichever seems more useful to you. Thunder wave could also fit somewhere on this set, perhaps in place of HP fire, but again, PP. This set also has fantastic synergy with jirachi, as they cover almost all of each other's weaknesses and one is a great SpD wall and the other Def while maintaining much much more offensive presence than blissey, for example.
    Lastly, you may want to consider adding the "volt" part of the volturn core--additionally, your two primary scouters (mien & zor) are both physical, which will make it hard for you to break through walls like skarmory. Adding a volt switch user such as rotom-w over one of them could help, although it's not necessary. I would suggest > mienshao, since tom + zor is such an awesome combo. Again, not strictly necessary.

    Now, if you instead prefer a more stally build:
    You'll want to concentrate more on your defensive core. Blissey + tangrowth is a great start, and you've got the physical + special thing going. You're very weak to strong physical attackers, however, especially if they have a type advantage over tangrowth (think scizor, kyu-b, versions of mence with fire blast, even something like heracross breaks right through the core). Unfortunately, there isn't one poke that can check all of these, which is why, in order to have a truly effective stall core, most of the team has to be devoted to it--something like blissey + tangrowth + skarmory + slowbro would do a good job at stopping pretty much all these threats. I don't know if you want to make that big a change, and even if you're open to it I would definitely recommend going with the more offensive build above.

    Some general set notes:
    Starmie could benefit from a bulkier set--you want to be able to come in consistently to spin the hazards off. I'd recommend something like:
    Show Hide
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Rapid spin
    -Surf / Scald

    If you don't want to sacrifice the coverage of the more offensive set, you could instead run a bulkier spread with the same moveset as you have. If you choose to run recover, however, it's recommended that you use the above moveset, as it gives you the best utility with just two moves. Scald is a good option > surf to burn stuff like ttar and scizor that try to trap you, but the loss in power is noticeable.

    Yeah, I'm not really sure what the deal is with the EVs on this set. I'd recommend a spread of 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe--SpD stands for Special defense btw.

    My last comment is that, as I mentioned earlier, it would be very beneficial for the team to have more hazards than just SR regardless of whether you go offensive or defensive. Some great spikes users are ferrothorn and skarmory, both of whom form very effective defensive cores with blissey--ferrothorn could potentially go in > tangrowth on a more defensive lineup. On a more offensive team, deoxys-d is a good option to lay spikes down--perhaps adding him > mienshao would be a good idea. If so, the final team lineup would look like:
    Hazard-setter Deo-d
    Phys. def. Celebi / Tangrowth if you want to keep him
    Bulky mie
    SpD rachi (which could lose SR if you use deo-d)
    This is a lot of changes, but I think it would really benefit the team. Of course, feel free to disregard any suggestions if you don't want to change your team too much.
    I hope this helps, and GL with the team!

    EDIT: and ninja'd by leftiez :p
  4. Emmo


    Dec 19, 2012
    @ leftiez: now I'll try your changes, thank you for your post

    @ kidogo: thank you for the analysis, now I'll try the team changed because despite being very different i really like it
  5. TheStriker


    Jun 11, 2012
    Hello Emmo!

    Welcome to Smogon! Tangrowth is fairly underated in this metagame without Chlorophyll. Regenerator won't really help because most Fire-Types will OHKO it like Flamethrower and Fire Blast. Your team is really offensive so I don't think another defensive pokemon is good. I would prefer a set-up sweeper. A set-up sweeper is a pokemon that can plow through entire teams after using a boosting move. An example of this Dragon Dance, Quiver Dance, Nasty Plot, Shell Smash, Rock Polish, and Sword Dance. Since this team needs needs a fast killer I would recommend Rock Polish Landorus. He covers all your problems and all his counters are revenged killed by Salamence. Here is the set.

    Landorus @ Life Orb
    Sheer Force
    220 Spe / 252 SAtk / 36 HP
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earth Power
    - Psychic
    - Rock Polish

    Rock Polish lets you outspeed Venasaur in Sun, Scarf Latios, and Terrakion. Psychic is the most important move on the set letting you kill Terrakion who is a big threat to your team almost OHKOing everything on here with a CB STAB Close Combat off a Base 129 Attack Stat. Terrakion is super common in today's metagame which will be a problem. Yes, now you have a bigger weakness to Mamaoswine but that problem is solved by Mienshao who can switch into a Ice Shard and OHKO back with Hi Jump Kick or use a combo of Fake Out and U-Turn to scout and kill. Earth Power is the strongest move on the set letting you kill may steels and will be the main move you will be using against pokemon who take damage nuetrally. Life Orb will not have any recoil do to Sheer Force canceling out. No power boost will be needed because all of your moves will be bossted 60%. Hidden Power [Ice] is the only "Ice" type move you can use letting you get past Dragon and Flying Types. skarmory who is the main counter to the set will be killed by a Fire Blast from Salamence if you predict the switch correctly. Your Italian right? Your english is not that bad you know.

    Speaking of Salamence. Why are you running that strange EV spread? There is a much better EV spread in 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe | Naive Nature. You can get better revenge kills with that and Special Defense won't let you survive an Ice Beam from a special attacker. You are x4 weak. Instead you can outspeed it and OHKO it with Outrage and gain the attack boost.

    Next I would prefer using the Starmie set of 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe | Timid Nature. Same with Mienshao except a Naive Nature. Okay, I do not know if SpD is speed but please change it to Spe or Spd with lowercase "D".

    Nice Team! After Gary2346 made that Mienshao team, everyone has been starting to use it!
  6. Redless


    Dec 16, 2012
    I played with this team some and I quite like it. I approve of how it uses its more offensive scouting core at first and can then stall or attempt a Salamence sweep. It can work well without gearing definitively towards either offense or stall, however it must have a sort of gameplan so that it can claim victory rather than merely prevent loss. I agree with TheStriker that it needs a sort of sweeper, however I also think that Salamence can be used this way fairly easily. You might want to focus more on team supporting Salamence as well. For this you might choose to run wish on Blissey. I think that you should run this set.

    Blissey @ Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    4 HP/252 Def/252 SpDef

    Stealth Rock
    Seismic Toss

    This seems kind of bad in that it lacks protect or softboiled for immediate recovery, but it is rather easy for Tangrowth or rarely another team member to force Blissey's threats out. You might instead run stealth rock on the Heatran that Leftiez suggested, and make room for softboiled or protect in the slot that Blissey was using for stealth rock. If you do end up using Heatran over Mienshao, then this is obviously a good idea, but if you decide not to use Heatran, I am not sure if this is very wise. I will test it without Heatran, but if you do decide to use this Heatran, which I recommend, then I would run stealth rock on that instead of Blissey. Of course, you could also use that Jirachi set with wish that was recommended. After testing, I am less sure about running wish Blissey without immediate recovery.

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