np: Doubles Stage 3 — Hit Me Baby One More Time [Kangaskhanite stays in Doubles]

[trc]

Electrolyte I've actually seen quite a few. They've never been that effective, in general just predictably first-turn protecting and then attacking, but they've never caused me much trouble at all. It's weak to Earthquake, takes a ton from Hyper Voice, isn't /that/ strong without a boost which is often difficult for it to set up, and is easily taken care of by something like Rotom-W or Talonflame or Chople Heatran (which obviously isn't as effective as Shuca Heatran but it's still a thing). But yeah, never really that impressive or difficult to beat.

 

[Temporaryanonymous]

Electrolyte I've actually seen quite a few. They've never been that effective, in general just predictably first-turn protecting and then attacking, but they've never caused me much trouble at all. It's weak to Earthquake, takes a ton from Hyper Voice, isn't /that/ strong without a boost which is often difficult for it to set up, and is easily taken care of by something like Rotom-W or Talonflame or Chople Heatran (which obviously isn't as effective as Shuca Heatran but it's still a thing). But yeah, never really that impressive or difficult to beat.

Depends on your team I guess. The mega Blaziken I've faced were harder for me, but that's likely because I don't have intimidate users, Talonflame, or Heatran. Mega blaziken can play mind tricks with protect (like not protecting the first turn!), and they can also run a mixed set with overheat that I saw. Without priority, it's sometimes a hassle, especially once it racks up the speed boosts.

 

[koolkranny]

I've seen a lot of fake out Ambipom running around, not sure about everyone else. In general, I have seen a lot more teams, not just the old ones with a new megas tossed in the empty slot. Rain, sun, lots of trick room, but all of the good teams I see in general are completely new, that didn't get attention until Mega Khang disappeared. I see much greater variety in the new meta without mega Khang, than I did with it.

Oddly enough, I have also seen an increase in intimidate users like Gyarados. And all the other intimidaters are also more common overall.

This post was a little shorter than I was planning, but in general, I have had more fun in this new meta with out Mega Khang. I like the variety that it brings.

 

[scene]

I haven't seen any Ambipom, or much Fake Out at all (aside from some TR Scrafty and Rain Ludicolo teams). As for megas, there's been a distinct lack of them in the no Kanga ladder from my experience. Haven't seen more than one or two Zard-Ys, a few Gardevoirs and the odd Manectric.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

i think the ambipom was, largely, the lower ladder trying to find an alternative to kanga.

as for the new ladder, i have not actually seen many mega kangas at all on the ladder. and i have been romping through the ladder with hail semi room. the combination of mega abomasnow and jellicent in tr, and scarf excadrill and talonflame out of tr breaks down unprepared teams with ease.

i have seen loads of mega gengars, presumably to will o wisp trap mega kanga. however, scarf ground types (lando t/excadrill) beat megagar easily.

 

[Hakumen]

So, after laddering for the time in doubles I'm gonna share my experience in the tier about the non-kanga meta :

I feel that Doubles is a diverse tier as I've seen many different playstyle. From what I remember, there was lots of Weather teams, Trick Room, Fairy Spam, Perish Trap, Gimmick and of course Weatherless teams.
I've seen numerous Sun and they're quite threatening. Charizard-Y is a great Weather Inducer itself as it's really powerful, quite bulky and kinda fast and it makes Chlorophylers such as Venusaur(the main one I've seen along with Shiftry) really dangerous. There was also a few teams using Ninetales over Zard in order to sweep with Mega Houndoom but there was much less efficient. Rain teams were also common, using powerful Swift Swimmer like Luddicolo and Kingdra as well as strong Thunder users like Zappy, Mega Manectric, sometimes Thundurus and once Mega Ampharos iirc.
Trick Room was great, it used bulky mons such as Cress, Reuniclus and Dusclops to set up Trick Room throughout the whole game so that bulky powerful threats like Conkeldur, Azumarill and Escavalier could sweep.There was also Fairy Spam that is an excellent strategy, early and mid-game Sylveon uses Hyper Voice to open holes and then in late game, Gardevoir is able to sweep. Perish Trap was kinda gimmick and annoying tactic to face when not prepared. I've seen some MegaGengar paired with supporters like Whimsicott and Amoonguss that used Disable and then proceed to PerishTrap. Gimmick was moslty things like Skil Swapping to Slaking or using Beat Up vs a Terrakion.

Overall, it was a great experience and I feel that the non-kanga meta is really fun.

 

[atomicllamas]

Okay, so I've been playing on the current ladder with a Transform Mew team that was given to me by a true fren, ebeast ;o. And has actually been a lot of fun, however, it made me realize that mew is actually really cool right now just in general, and not only as a teammate to make a gimmicky Mega-Mom duo (though if you pull it off it is hilarious). This is the set that I have been using:

Mew @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Transform
- Low Kick
- Tailwind

So the EVs and Low Kick are for Tyranitar and Bisharp I assume, as well as under-speeding adamant Kangaskhan (I really have no idea, lol). But this whole set is actually really cool for support as well. As Mew is the only viable user of Fake Out and Tailwind (unless you really like Smeargle and Shiftry Oo). But Transform is the real highlight on this set, in many games I haven't even transformed into mega-mom, as you really have 11 options to choose from that can give your opponents team a lot of trouble. This is a replay of me vs Pinoy Pwnage where Mew transformed into his own Keldeo and completely turned the game around (with the help of a well timed Paralysis). It also shows off Defensive Gyarados which has actually been pretty decent w/ T-wave / Waterfall / Taunt / Protect and can be really annoying for opponents to take down thanks to its good typing and bulk. Gyarados (non-mega) is actually surprisingly versatile in doubles, and I'm really surprised I haven't seen more of it.

Anyways I've had fun on both ladders, definitely think that Mega-Gardevoir would be the next big mega-evolution if kanga gets banned, as mega gard hits like a truck and its actually kind of hard to deal with.

 

[Enki]

Well, I am agree with the no kangaskhan, it is a threat for anything, and not all players could spend a slot to put jellicent for kangaskhan I think.
His principally set is fake out, return, power up punch and sucker punch, a double fake out could put anything in ko rage of return or sucher punch, power up punch is a nice boost move, to finish the oppo and boost himself.
Well, intimidaters couldn't stop definitively, because switch in is the best move, and kangaskhan is mostly with a nice support to create him the way to victory.
I forgot his brockeness, but in ladder I encounter nice player in ladder and I saw how kangaskhan is broken with a support.
There is some solution will be great, not only counter kangaskhan, Weather I think.
Rain is the best for this, swift swimmers is soo cheap and can kill, but there is wide guard / rage poweder / follow me, will be annoying, I really don't know how we stop him, hitmontop don't make OHKO, it is fucking bulky and with a not bad speed.

 

[Nollan]

Waited 'til I laddered on both ladders so I could have a better view on things. Also do not have the time or energy to read everything so I'm just going to be lame and post what I personally saw/used. Anyway without further ado:

No Kanga Ladder

Sun was everywhere here, with rain appearing very frequently. Also lots of Greninja toward the lower end of the ladder. TR was common as well. Really I found this ladder to be more bland just because without Kanga around a lot of players could use these given teams are hardly ever be punished due to the lower level play that takes place on ladder (I hardly ever think things through much and I assume a lot of other people don't either). I used a cool little Mega Blastoise team for this ladder, since Blastoise is good at getting rid of Heatran, Lando-T, Bisharp, and others. I found Blastoise to be very effective which was really what I was hoping to see, as it definitely proved in my mind that Kanga is by no means by far the best Mega out there and is probably a bit overused imho (I also used it in some non suspect matches for fun and it worked just as well w/ Kanga around, hammering Kanga with Aura Sphere).

No Kanga Ladder Team

Electric Oven (Rotom-Heat) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 180 SAtk / 252 HP / 20 SDef / 52 Def / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

En Garde (Terrakion) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SAtk
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Helping Hand
- Protect

Shroomsday (Amoonguss) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 192 SDef / 252 HP / 64 Def
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Protect

Shell Shock (Blastoise) @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Rain Dish ---> Mega (C)Launcher
EVs: 252 SAtk / 160 HP / 96 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Aura Sphere
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Bullet Bug (Scizor) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 244 Atk / 144 HP / 76 SDef / 44 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Best of Gen V (Latios) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Tailwind
- Protect

Kanga Ladder

I liked this ladder more I'll be honest. I by no means saw Kanga every match (actually saw Charizard more though that might be because some people don't realize Kanga is allowed again) and (almost; mostly to be safe in case I forgot a match or something) every time I saw it I won. I actually had 4 Kanga counters on my team (Lando-T is more like a half counter but I'll call it an entire one; Rotom doesn't count since it had Thunder Wave), and really Intimidate was a convenience to make life a bit easier and Terrakion alone was what beat Kangaskhan with a few exceptions (aka sometimes I just burned it with my star player on the team). In fact, Terrakion won me a lot of matches, as a lot of common team line-ups had tons of trouble winning when I saved Terrak for a late game sweep. Note I did not use Kanga as my Mega and actually used Mawile + Landorus-T, one of my favorite cores (and it alone was another option to beat Kanga; basically I'm saying I had multiple options but never did I need more than one of them to beat it).

Anyway, I used a team featuring a Pokemon I've been rambling about for awhile now: Magmar. I originally used it on a joke HailRoom team but after seeing it do well at some VGC events/Battle Spot ladders and seeing it do some work in my matches with my joke team I thought I might try it on a serious team. So I did. I found Magmar to be really useful (even though it is unable to make use of Flame Body; for some strange reason it never activated at all =/), supporting more offensively orientated Pokemon w/ Follow Me while spreading burns through Will-O-Wisp (or Flame Body if it actually ever worked) and picking off/dealing damage to threats like Aegislash with Overheat.

Kanga Ladder Team

Lolz (Rotom-Wash) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 72 SAtk / 120 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

Magmar the Boss (Magmar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Flame Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Helping Hand
- Follow Me

T Wrecks (Landorus-Therian) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Soul Dood (Latios) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Tailwind
- Protect

Venus Fly Trap (Mawile) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate ---> Huge Powah
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 76 SDef / 56 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Man Eating Wolf (Terrakion) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Taunt
- Protect

Conclusion

More than anything else what I've learned is this: Terrakion + Tailwind Latios is a really effective core. It was at the centered of both of my teams and I almost never minded the loss of Hidden Power on Latios because Tailwind did work in so many of my matches. Terrakion in general really punishes people for using standard things like Togekiss, Kangaskhan, Bisharp, Heatran, among others as if I can get rid of the Lando-T's or Rotoms I can usually take the match fairly easily late game.

In terms of overall metagame difference I felt like the absence of Kangaskhan didn't do much other than make CharYZard absurdly common. I do think the ladders are not largely accurate to what a Kangaskhan absent meta would be like on the top level, though I definitely think the metagame would not change much. Even w/ Kanga gone physical attackers like Mawile-Mega, Landorus-T, Bisharp and Charizard-X among many others are frequent in the metagame, making Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp useful assets. Still it does remain true without Kanga a lot of teams can not make use of these and still perform excellently (with Kanga there are still teams that don't need these but more of them would be around without it is what I'm saying).

I personally do not think Kanga has a very large effect on the meta, it simply "locks" people into using standard things as making use of unusual things is hard when the common threats (Rotom-W, Terrak, Lando-T) do such a good job of keeping it in line. It is still possible to make unusual things work though (see: Magmar). I emphasize this paragraph states an opinion and not a fact, and I find it entirely reasonable for someone to think Kanga restricts teambuilding. I just don't, so there we have it.

 

[Anty]

Although kanga usage is still high, i am suprised about the mix of megas. Throughout laddering, i have only seen 1 chary, 0 megacross and only a few mega gard. Mega gengar has definately seen a huge uprise in usage, countering kanga without crunch, although i have found it doesnt always work (scrappy fakeout :3). It is also very offensively and support based threatening. You dont want to get burnt or hit hard by a STAB shadow ball coming from a base 170 spatk. It is also great when partnered with certain pokes. The scariest part about it is that it also has a partner. You cannot simply predict correctly vs a gengar lead. If you choose stuff like scrafty, you get burnt (knock off is a 5hko after burn!), heatran is trapped and a partner can kill it (dril, zygard, idk), it is also easy just to double attack the gengar and then get nailed by its partner. Mega gengar is a very good, i am suprised it took this long for people to recognised its true potential.

I have also seen quite a few more charx's (yes, on competant players). Charx is a very interesting dragon dancer, although it receives competition from (mega)gyarados (ik different types, but teams wll only have 1), as lack of intimidate does hurt, but xzard has very good natural bulk and power as well as recovery. I know if you want roost you have to sacrifice coverage/protect but it is still nice, especcially if your followme user goes down (assuming you have one). Its strength is amazing and its dual types have nice coverage (azu is most relevant one that resists them and is 2hko'd at plus 1). It can be easy to set up a dd instantly as most people will assume its yzard. It hates intimidators and scarf lando but it is definately nice to try.

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

SAND RUSH EXCADRILL

Pierce the Heavens (Excadrill) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Protect
​

I've really enjoyed playing with this buddy again. Sand Rush Exadrill was a quintessential threat to consider when building a Gen V team, the sand archetype was a real threat and weather wars ran rife. These days though, the meta has manifested itself in a different way and a few old gems have fallen to the wayside. Recently however, we've seen tests into our old friend Politoed and found that rain can still be a dominating force in the metagame. I took it upon myself to build a team around a personal favorite Pokemon of mine and I've been overwhelmed by the performance it's shown me.

Initially I set off with a more complicated EV spread built around outspeeding threats under sand, however, it was too much hassle needing to maintain sand all the time and I decided that outspeeding key threats like Heatran outside of sand was far more important. Another change from the standard Gen V Excadrill is the addition of Iron Head. Bonking Pokemon like Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir is super important, it also helps with Togekiss and the flinch chance has come in handy a few times. In addition to this, an increase in the popularity of Wide Guard users such as Hitmontop and Aegislash has meant that a single target attack is pretty important.

This set has performed brilliantly for me, dismantling common team archetypes and dealing with a wide variety of threats I've seen on the suspect ladder. I strongly recommend you build a solid team with this fellow and give it a go!

 

[Enki]

I think Excadrill isn't the biggest threat now.
To beat excadrill there is the intimidators and the rain teams, and he is weak to ground type, earthquake is everywhere, I think Kangaskhan is the main threat right now..

 

[finally]

sand rush excadrill​

​

fren. sand rush drill is bad in comparison to the god. as per late D-Quag and I have been extensively testing the set of the gods: Scarf Drill. All your worries are gone as you are no longer packing tyranitar which doubled your water, fighting, and ground weaknesses. And you get to be fast and furious! Being locked into things isn't too bad as long as you make sure to pack flying types on your team to switch in on your own eqs. But as totem already stated, the ability to bonk things that beat regular base 88 speed, get smashed when drill is in the sand or has a scarf. Gardevoir gets bonked. Charizard and talonflame get bonked. random levitators that you need to finish off get bonked. It's just a real cool set.
but the best part about scarf drill is that you get to smack rotom :^). sand rush drill actually has to switch out around rotom. oh the humanity
here's the set
Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Drill Run
i've tried manipulating the speed evs to increase its bulk, but its not really worth it. the idea of losing x amount of speed for y amount of bulk loses ground when you want to be fast and furious. like 1 speed point is a lot more important than 1 defense point, because of the whole issue who goes first is decided by that speed point as opposed to taking 1 less damage because of that hp point.
anyways, you're supposed to play this guy as a mid to late game cleaner. weaken the things he cant ohko and eliminate his checks and hes good to go (ik ik, that's all offensive threats, but its really easy with scarf drill because hes scarfed!!!)

another thing that i've been noticing is the rise in sub kyub. trigger warning: pls dont eat me
i've always thought sub kyub was cool, but it was kind of lack luster. like why would you wanna use a physical monster like kyub for special attack (ice ground coverage with special, etc)? and i thought to myself, "it's not worth it. you need big damage." so in the style of white water, i propose that people should start running the superior mixed kyub.
1) sexy base 170
2) not being totem
3) you are no longer stopped by bulky waters
anyways, here's the set:
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SAtk / 252 Atk
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Protect

pinnacle of the set is fusion bolt. most people drop it for earth power if they go mixed, but i never leave home without it because i hate it when politoed or suicune or some bulky thing weak to electric just sits there taunting me. and also it forms a nice bolt beam coverage combo kind of. oh yeah, and dragon claw actually hurts as opposed to ice beam from sub kyub :^) and you can still smack lando-t's with this set!!!!!! best set na
ill drop some more dooces later :^)

 

[LightningLuxray]

Well, here's what I've experienced.

At least with good players, I've noticed a drop in weather. Instead, it seems to be a draw to more of a "balance" team, so to speak (I think it's called Good Stuff?) Anyways, Pokemon such as Mega Gengar and Keldeo are two Pokemon I've seen who can deal with Mega Khan reasonably well. Mega Gengar is one who's been getting a lot of hype recently, and for good reason. With Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, two strong STABs, and even Perish Song, Mega Gengar can be a serious threat to the enemy team. A great base Speed and Special Attack stat also aid it greatly, as it allows it to both outspeed Mega Khan and do good damage if it chooses to attack (Will-O-Wisp will usually be used first, though). One of my only loses on the ladder came to a Life Orb Keldeo, who has the power to do serious damage to Mega Khan with Secret Sword, as well as threaten common partners such as Heatran. Combine this with a Pokemon such Tyranitar to help deal with Togekiss, and it can be a serious threat to Mega Khan based teams. I will admit, though, that the lack of weather has been quite disappointing; with Charizard-Y and Politoed being no where near as common, my old ladder reqs team is no where as near as efficient. :[

Not necessarily sure if I like a metagame with Mega Khan, but I don't think it makes a huge difference.

 

[Stratos]

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Drill Run
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Spd / 4 SAtk / 252 Atk
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Protect

team created: spl week 8 (no spe only because is TR)

team created: 7 weeks ago

this nigga is claiming credit for literally all of my sets, next he'll be going HEY GUYS, I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING BRILLIANT: HP GROUND EBELT CRESS. #endtheplagiarism x(

i'm famous for my defensive team, the pwnemon special, and while that team is still super good, i've actually been having more tournament (not so much ladder, which is still weak to autopilot play) success recently with the one in that second screencap. And I have to say, much of this success comes from two agents: terrakion (already heavily covered itt and, imo, the single best anti-meta pokemon in doubles at the moment) and...talonflame (SORRY Braverius). My opinion on talon has changed spectacularly since this metagame's inception. A well played talonflame is the pinnacle of offensive pressure, well played talon meaning the life orb set (lo with bb / flare blitz / protect / wow or tailwind [i like wow, but pinoy kills with tailwind]). Thanks to its impressive set of resistances (bug, grass, steel, ground, and fire) it's not actually as hard to switch in as I thought it was—though you definitely want to make sure you won't be bringing it in on anything that can actually hurt it. Priority is just so good that it's practically impossible to overvalue, a beautiful lock move that forces specific exploitable plays when up against offensive pokemon or else just kills them. He still has no place on defensive teams, but on more offensive ones he is almost a necessity. There's a reason that of the seven teams that used talonflame in SPL, seven won. Try him out if you're still a hater.

 

[finally]

[21:16:23] @Pwnemon: finally
[21:16:25] @Pwnemon: stop claiming credit
[21:16:27] @Pwnemon: for all my sets
[21:16:28] @Pwnemon: wtf
[21:16:33] @finally: hello
[21:16:41] @finally: when did i claim credit for the pwne special
[21:16:45] @Pwnemon: uh
[21:16:47] @Pwnemon: scarf exca
[21:16:49] White Flood: Hey guys
[21:16:50] @Pwnemon: ive been using for two months
[21:16:52] @Pwnemon: mix cube
[21:16:54] @Pwnemon: three months
[21:16:58] @Pwnemon: those exact sets
[21:16:59] @finally: yeah i gave mixcube credit
[21:17:00] @finally: :]
[21:17:01] @Pwnemon: o

i even told this nigga i wasn't claiming credit. now keep in mind i told him before he posted his accusations of plagiarism!!!
I EVEN HAVE WHITE WATER IN MY FUCKIN DESCRIPTION
idek what this nigga wants from me
I CAN DO MLA AND CHICAGO IF YOU WANT

pwne edit: whitewater was CB cube, get it right you goon

 

[Anty]

Ive started to use escavalier and it has been very impressive due to its sheer power and ableness to wreck in/vs tr.

Putting set in spoilers cuz i forgot where to find the pics

Hide

note: not taking credit, saw esca is spl or something
Escavalier @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Megahorn
- Knock Off
- Drill Run
- Iron Head

A set like this works, maximising its strength and increasing its nice natural bulk. Even if your not using it with room, i would advice no spe ivs due to its 20 spe, it is slower than dusclops and aroma, its slower than everything relevant apart from ferro, which also has 20 spe. Esca has such amazing coverage, steel is a strong stab that nails fairies (who are often in tr: sylveon, aroma) as well as hitting the fm users hard (knock off + dr can ko magmar), megahorn is stupidly strong and hits neutral threats hard, knock off is annoying and hits clops/jelli and dr run kills tran (hopefully in room). It also has overcoat to shit on amoo/loom/vivilon. Im starting to think lum could be good, most tr users can wisp and its a bit of a duck when burnt + intimidated.
Lando-t and gyara wall it pretty hard.

calcs

Hide

ik the sets might be wrong, just usig presets
252+ Atk Escavalier Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Eviolite Dusclops: 126-150 (44.5 - 53%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO (assuiming it gets tr up first turn u might win without burn)
252+ Atk Escavalier Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 320-378 (79.2 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (same with clops)
-1 252+ Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 109-129 (34.1 - 40.4%) -- 43.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (still a lot of damage)
252+ Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aromatisse: 390-458 (96 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 220-261 (53.1 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 135-159 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Esca is great with teams weak to tr. Its not s-rank but it's certainly worth a try.

 

[finally]

escav

it's interesting that you are using escav as an anti-tr measure. him and scizor are great additions to a rainroom team or as a countermeasure to opposing tr. my beef with using escav as an antimeasure is that he will be moving last most of the time as you are forced to rely on opponent tr that will often simply not come because most opponents arent tr. and then also megahorn misses a lot.
personally i like using scizor a lot more. bug/steel stab coverage is great for nailing tr setters. the thing that scizor can do better though is abuse the priority of bullet punch. this means that he ignores the atmosphere of whether it is trick room or not, and can get in big hits whenever. i also like scizor because it is easier to get sd's up with. finally, his moves don't miss.
i suppose another big difference is the two's ability to beat one of the core components of tr: amoonguss. escav literally ignores amoonguss' rage powder and is unaffected by spore. scizor on the other hand can hardly deal with amoong if its at full hp. amoong will either eat up a hit and put to sleep (if tr isnt up) or straight put scizor to sleep (if tr is already up). i ~guess~ escav is good if you need an amoong and tr counter. but that would be implying you don't run resto chesto sd scizor :^)

it's interesting that you bring up escav as it makes sense that a rain anti-tr measure gains popularity (with a lack of kanga im assuming?) since tr got a little more breathing room without kanga. more breathing room = more tr teams. no more scrappy fake out from a fast fake outter who would be a slow tr fake outter (scrafty). and then also, kanga's priority sucker punch nailed a lot of setters which made it hard for them to actually abuse tr and attack if they got tr up.
with him gone, i can see a lot of potential in reunciclus. back before the no kanga ladder went up, i tried using reunc a lot, but to no avail many a time because of it just getting overpowered by kanga. and this kind of speaks to how certain "frailer" (at least in comparison to cress) tr setters would have to be benched more often because of the powerhouse kanga was.
these frailer setters do have a purpose for those of you who may say "just use jellicent as a setter to beat kanga." these frailer setters pack a punch. gallade and reunc hit really hard, something that the bulky ghost setters can't do. (i even tried offensive spell tag jellicent. it was garbo). personally i like the diversity in setters that has grown from the lack of kanga.
tl;dr tr got more popular with kanga gone.

edit: i saw something about char-x
don't forget that it's best part isn't that it can set up dd's easily. it's best part is the surprise your opponent gets when he realizes the char-y check he just switched in gets mauled by char-x. or that electric move he went for was resisted. you gotta remember that a lot of char-y checks are eaten by char-x. a prime example is rotom-w or ttar. both try to play around solar beam, hitting with thunderbolt and rock slide. but when char-x comes out, big x lives both hits and does a butt ton with dragon claw. char-x revival :]
i guess people are just exploring other megas, but i gotta be honest. sun is better than a surprise ;]

 

[Anty]

it's interesting that you are using escav as an anti-tr measure. him and scizor are great additions to a rainroom team or as a countermeasure to opposing tr. my beef with using escav as an antimeasure is that he will be moving last most of the time as you are forced to rely on opponent tr that will often simply not come because most opponents arent tr. and then also megahorn misses a lot.
personally i like using scizor a lot more. bug/steel stab coverage is great for nailing tr setters. the thing that scizor can do better though is abuse the priority of bullet punch. this means that he ignores the atmosphere of whether it is trick room or not, and can get in big hits whenever. i also like scizor because it is easier to get sd's up with. finally, his moves don't miss.
i suppose another big difference is the two's ability to beat one of the core components of tr: amoonguss. escav literally ignores amoonguss' rage powder and is unaffected by spore. scizor on the other hand can hardly deal with amoong if its at full hp. amoong will either eat up a hit and put to sleep (if tr isnt up) or straight put scizor to sleep (if tr is already up). i ~guess~ escav is good if you need an amoong and tr counter. but that would be implying you don't run resto chesto sd scizor :^)

it's interesting that you bring up escav as it makes sense that a rain anti-tr measure gains popularity (with a lack of kanga im assuming?) since tr got a little more breathing room without kanga. more breathing room = more tr teams. no more scrappy fake out from a fast fake outter who would be a slow tr fake outter (scrafty). and then also, kanga's priority sucker punch nailed a lot of setters which made it hard for them to actually abuse tr and attack if they got tr up.
with him gone, i can see a lot of potential in reunciclus. back before the no kanga ladder went up, i tried using reunc a lot, but to no avail many a time because of it just getting overpowered by kanga. and this kind of speaks to how certain "frailer" (at least in comparison to cress) tr setters would have to be benched more often because of the powerhouse kanga was.
these frailer setters do have a purpose for those of you who may say "just use jellicent as a setter to beat kanga." these frailer setters pack a punch. gallade and reunc hit really hard, something that the bulky ghost setters can't do. (i even tried offensive spell tag jellicent. it was garbo). personally i like the diversity in setters that has grown from the lack of kanga.
tl;dr tr got more popular with kanga gone.

I never really thought of scizor. It is great vs some tr setters but then there is jelli and clops which it can only touch with knock off (thief lawl) which isnt always the best use for a moveslot when it also want bugbite/superpower. Scizor also doesnt have the bulk escavalier has. 70/80/100 isnt bad, and 70/105/105 isnt that much better but the extra 25 def is nice as well as having 5 more attack (again not bad at all, esp with sd). I prefer escavalier as it is better in tr, iron head is stronger than techni bp, megahorn is stronger than bb before sd. I guess you could use sd escav in tr, but i doubt itll be that good, bug/steel coverage only gets you so far (you could run sd 3 attacks with dr for tran/fires). Amoo is also a growing threat and megahorn + iron head is a 2hko (vs not sitrus, if thats a thing) but 2 megahorns can ko. Scizor does 80-90 vs 252/184 with +2 bugbite and takes sitrus berry which is nice (mega has 1/3 chance to ohko), but it isnt easy to get sd up without roost and hgh usage tran.

I have seen and decrease in tr with the kanga ladder but it is still a threat, unless you lead with kanga + sharp then jelli/clops will be a problem turn2 as many people are leading with setter + scrafty, which has fakeout and the abiity to ohko sharp and 2hko kanga. After tr, the ghosts have desperately trying to burn kanga as it is a huge threat and can be somewhat predictable and with eviolite clops is taking any kanga hit. Kanga definately scared tr. Only recently i have noticed that she is my only one who can nail (non ghost) tr setters, scrafty/tran just dont seem strong enough. Reunicles is annoying (esca is slower B)) but gallade seems cool. A physically offensive tr mon is rare but it has nice coverage (fight/psy/dark/leaf/rock even priority with shadow sneak) and offensively threatens av scrafty.

 

[finally]

i guess i didn't quite emphasize the most important difference between scizor and escav. on paper, escav sports better stats, better moves, and even arguably a better ability for its niche of stopping tr. the only noticeable flaw is his speed, which initially dosen't look that bad, but in practice can serve as a severe hindrance to trying to kill things. i prefer scizor because of his ability to act without speed control, primarily because of bullet punch.
on the topic of tr killers in the meta, the first thing i think of isn't actually escav or conk or scizor. it's bisharp. it nails every setter with stab, and i'm pretty sure the life orb set can get most the kills. the banded set is edgy, but it guarantees kills on setters and then even on random intimidators. +1 252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 342-403 (106.8 - 125.9%)
another random interesting trend i've noticed is the decline in use of intimidators. on the no kanga ladder, there is less of a need to carry intimidators as soft checks for kanga. this has had the effect of making life easier for physical attackers in general but also the negative effect of making life harder for defiant users. it's interesting how defiant users feed off of the enemy, and when no one is packing intimidators, they lose value. thoughts on other lost checks? something that i thought would go is fighting types, but fighting types still fulfill the niche of good offensive pressure as well as rock resist for me at least. thoughts on things that you would leave with kanga, but stayed because they are just naturally good?

 

[qsns]

In the non-Kanga ladder, I found my Jirachi a lot less effective because it wasn't able to cockblock the Returns and Sucker Punches headed at it's partner, so it was delegated to the role of sponging a double-target attack and fainting afterwards. Also, Keldeo and Terrakion usage seem to be the same for both ladders; they're both good pokes even without the role of checking M-Kang.

 

[realiti]

i guess i didn't quite emphasize the most important difference between scizor and escav. on paper, escav sports better stats, better moves, and even arguably a better ability for its niche of stopping tr. the only noticeable flaw is his speed, which initially dosen't look that bad, but in practice can serve as a severe hindrance to trying to kill things. i prefer scizor because of his ability to act without speed control, primarily because of bullet punch.
on the topic of tr killers in the meta, the first thing i think of isn't actually escav or conk or scizor. it's bisharp. it nails every setter with stab, and i'm pretty sure the life orb set can get most the kills. the banded set is edgy, but it guarantees kills on setters and then even on random intimidators. +1 252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 342-403 (106.8 - 125.9%)
another random interesting trend i've noticed is the decline in use of intimidators. on the no kanga ladder, there is less of a need to carry intimidators as soft checks for kanga. this has had the effect of making life easier for physical attackers in general but also the negative effect of making life harder for defiant users. it's interesting how defiant users feed off of the enemy, and when no one is packing intimidators, they lose value. thoughts on other lost checks? something that i thought would go is fighting types, but fighting types still fulfill the niche of good offensive pressure as well as rock resist for me at least. thoughts on things that you would leave with kanga, but stayed because they are just naturally good?

All of your points are true. When I think of a TR killer, it's Aegislash. It's able to use its typing to resist moth things aimed at it, and Shadow Ball really packs a punch. However, only 10% of teams I see run TR. About 65% run Goodstuffs, and about 25% run weather. I think Weather should be used much more, and so should TR. I'm not saying Goodstuffs is bad, just that there are many other playstyles that can work well.

 

[Arcticblast]

All of your points are true. When I think of a TR killer, it's Aegislash. It's able to use its typing to resist moth things aimed at it, and Shadow Ball really packs a punch. However, only 10% of teams I see run TR. About 65% run Goodstuffs, and about 25% run weather. I think Weather should be used much more, and so should TR. I'm not saying Goodstuffs is bad, just that there are many other playstyles that can work well.

The problem with using Aegislash as an anti-TR Pokemon is that 60 base Speed. Sure it's slow and its STABs hit most setters super effectively, but a lot of Pokemon common on TR (such as Conkeldurr, Mega Mawile, Escavalier, Scrafty, and a lot of setters) actually underspeed it, meaning Aegislash has to play very carefully or it risks being OHKOed in Blade form. If I was looking for something that could bash some setter heads in, I'd definitely go with Bisharp paired with a decently fast Fake Out user - Fake Out on TR is often either entirely left out or relegated to Hitmontop and Scrafty, which both carry Intimidate, and Bisharp is easily capable of capitalizing on it. Of course TR can carry countermeasures (Conkeldurr in particular really ruins Bisharp's day), but it's definitely the single best Pokemon for disposing of TR setters.

While I'm here, I just want to bring up a set I tried on a whim that's actually been putting in some serious work.
normally I would have just posted it instead of making that response up there but when your community is based almost entirely on IRC and PS chat what can you do?

Goodra @ Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 80 Def / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt / Muddy Water / Ice Beam
- Protect

Damn right I'm running LO Goodra. It's an absolute beast with some speed control support (I'm personally using both Tailwind and Icy Wind) and is a great Pokemon to throw on an offensive team with a Sun weakness. Its Special Attack with a Modest nature is 350 - just 9 points short of Timid Latios - and it lacks the gross Psychic typing that Latios brings with it and in exchange gets Fire Blast, which allows it to nuke the typical answers to some of the top threats in the metagame while abusing opposing Charizard Y. It has a huge fucking movepool too, which means you can customize the last slot pretty easily. Thunderbolt is probably the best option, although I've found Muddy Water useful on my team for hitting Heatran and Lando-T while also being able to finish off two weakened opponents. Sap Sipper is cool for eating up Spores too!

I'll also say that I've tried AV Goodra several times and it's a momentum-sucking sack of shit. Sure it gets Feint, but AV Goodra is weak as hell, really slow if you want any sense of physical bulk, can't Protect or HydraRest, and completely kills any momentum you have the second it hits the field. Goodra already avoids the 2HKO from Modest Charizard-Y's Sun-boosted Fire Blast; you don't need anything bulkier than that surely...

 

[Lolk]

So I have been experimenting with Thunder Wave for the past few weeks and I am pretty impressed with the results. The original focus of my team was just to slow stuff down so I could sweep with a slower mega. Kanga didn't fit the role very well because half of its movepool is priority, so I ended up using Mega Charizard Y. However, with the offensive nature of Doubles, that gameplan rarely sticks through, and I usually end up just attacking with my twave mons lol. It is easy to appreciate T Wave's utility, though, as it is not only useful against physical attackers, like Burn, and it is more reliable than Sleep because it lasts forever.

The most interesting thing I learned about TWave is a great method vs Trick Room leads because they are always prepared for Taunt and Spore, and they can't afford wasted turns with their Trick Room timers. I also attempted a badass turnaround vs a solid Trick Room team where I paralyzed my teammate to outslow the opponent lol, but I ended up getting haxed like wtf.

Another factor that has to be considered when TWave is the dominating status is the lack of Attack Control. It gets too hectic when TWave and WoW are on the same team, and I always ended up afflicting the wrong status to the wrong mon. This means that Intimidate users are important to my teams, and they tend to have a lot of weight on their shoulders. :(

O yea my fav TWave users so far are Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, and Togekiss :>. Gyarados seems cool too, but it's typing doesn't synergize with anything I like.

Landoge and Rotom-W being everywhere doesn't help TWave's reputation, tho. It just sucks that Electric-type's can't be paralyzed now.

It does get annoying tho when you end up having to rely on a Para for the win tho lol.

Another annoying thing about using TWave is that every opponent blames their loss on hax even though they only get paralyzed a fourth of the time like fo real learn to math.

So yea I give TWave a solid 7/10 out of a scale i just made up, so yea try it out it is very cool in this meta :>

 

[koolkranny]

I have been using Twave Meowstic, and everyone keeps telling me that i like to use hax because of it. I use it primarily for speed control, because the opponent never seems to get parahaxed when it would be beneficial to me.

Deflector Dish (Meowstic) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Thunder Wave
- Quick Guard
- Safeguard

Mewostic is the only mon who can learn these 4 moves, and this synergy is what i need for my team with prankster. Between Twave and quick guard I can safely attack Mega Khang until he returns Meowstic for the ohko. It also helps against talonflame and other fast threats, but i almost never win against a Mega mom team without this meowstic causing havoc.