np: ORAS UU Stage 3.1 - Sex on Fire [Victini Remains BL]

[Pak]

I'm excited to see how Victini would fit into the meta. It would definitely make the tier less stale if it is to stay, but it destroys balance so most of my teams wouldn't appreciate it being here.

 

[GULLY]

I've been testing out phys def rotom h and its really good. It checks not only Victini but Mamo and those two are now the two most unwallable mons in the tier.
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 126-148 (41.4 - 48.6%) (thats the most it can do to u, keep in mind tho that mixed tini is prob going to be getting more usage this go around)
Ye thats alot of damage but u can split that damage off, its a really good pivot rn and along with a good water type can deal with fire spam, which will def be the meta now with out a doubt.

 

[The Immortal]

Ladder is up.

 

[sniperr]

oh yea! let's see what Tini can do

 

[Sabella]

i expect to see extremely bulky water types along with pursuit trappers on each team. this will be the most reliable way to deal with victini. i expct to see the the life orb special/mixed set the most as grass knot + tbolt and glaciate destroys many of its switch ins like swampert, defensive salamence, blastoise, and other dragons and bulky waters. curious to see how the tier handles it though

 

[nv]

As of right now, I see Victini being a major threat in UU. Now whether or not it is broken...well...that is why the suspect test is happening, but I will link my post from the previous np thread here discussing what my thoughts are on Victini in general. Cannot wait for this suspect test (here I come Tiering Contributor badge)

 

[yamb]

I really hope RU hasn't gotten too attached to Tyrantrum.

252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 87-102 (28.4 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO

 

[sniperr]

I really hope RU hasn't gotten too attached to Tyrantrum.

252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 87-102 (28.4 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO

I didn't even know tyrant was that bulky. I may attemp to use dugtrio to scare Tini from getting trigger happy. for a quad resist that a decent check to cb tini

 

[Schpoonman]

It helps that Tyrantrum has a 4x resistance to Fire. We haven't seen him more because every other strong physical Fire-type beats Tyrantrum anyway (Entei burns, Infernape and Darm hit it with SE coverage). The only real issue is that you're 2HKO'd at worst by any of Victini's special coverage if he has any sort of boosting item. But (again) assuming people don't get smarter with Victini, Tyrantrum uses Choice-locked Victini as huge set-up fodder.

 

[Cynde]

My initial opinion on Victini is leaning towards broken, although it is still pretty early in the suspect test to tell if it is. Offence seems to have a much smaller problem with this mon owing the the fact that there would be quite a few reliable enough checks to it such as Maero / Gatr / Krook. How ever the same can't be said for balance or bulkier teams sadly. Outside of being able to check it switching in is an immense struggle. Being a fan of playing balance I hate switching into this monster mainly because scouting for its set is a pain. In my opinion the Choice Band set while powerful, seems outclassed by the unpredictability of the expert belt set which is what makes finding a switch in rather problematic. Tini's amazing movepool allows it to beat some of the common switch ins to it such as Glaciate for Dragons or Energy Ball / Thunder / Grass Knot for bulky waters. Even having access to Focus Blast allows it to do a solid chunk to things like Snorlax while OHKO'ing some of the checks to BandTini like Hydrei ( provided rocks are up). While this may be a very scary mon when I was testing I found two rather decent answers to it. One being Defensive Mega Ampharos, and the other being mixed def Arcanine w/ Crunch. But these face trouble with Life Orb Mixed sets sadly. While they do take under 50% they aren't particularly hard to wear down (which is why i ended up running both on the same team along with swampert) . Personally I would be happy to see the back of Victini.

Mega Amphy Calcs
Band
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 127-150 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 114-135 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- 18.1% chance to 3HKO
E-Belt
156 SpA Victini Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 105-124 (27.4 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
156 SpA Expert Belt Victini Glaciate vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 122-144 (31.8 - 37.5%) -- 88.5% chance to 3HKO
156 SpA Expert Belt Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 149-178 (38.9 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
156 SpA Victini Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 93-110 (24.2 - 28.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 4HKO
(From these it's rather easy to see how much of a pain Life Orb is)

Arcanine Calcs

Band
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Arcanine: 120-142 (31.3 - 37%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 144 Def Arcanine: 111-132 (28.9 - 34.4%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
E-Belt
156 SpA Victini Thunder vs. 248 HP / 112+ SpD Arcanine: 89-105 (23.2 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
156 SpA Victini Psychic vs. 248 HP / 112+ SpD Arcanine: 109-129 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- 96.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
156 SpA Victini Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 112+ SpD Arcanine: 96-114 (25 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery


Edit: After a little more testing, realised that Mega Camerupt does a decent job of beating Victini. credits to Yifeng senpai for the idea

Camel Calcs

Band
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Camerupt: 143-168 (41.6 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Camerupt: 127-151 (37 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
E-Belt
156 SpA Victini Psychic vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Camerupt: 99-117 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 1.5% chance to 3HKO
156 SpA Expert Belt Victini Hidden Power Water vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Camerupt: 216-254 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
156 SpA Victini Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Camerupt: 88-104 (25.6 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

 

[fran17]

I'm really happy to see this retest, especially now that the tier got some good checks like Salamence and Mandibuzz, and many other checks got some viability like Dragalge, Feraligatr and Tyrantrum. I'll add something after I ladder more

 

[Pearl]

Yeah, Tyrantrum (and to an extent, Salamence and Hydreigon. Maybe Chandelure, although that makes you lose way more momentum if it comes in on an U-turn) is probably offense's best bet against Victini. Personally, and even though I haven't played Pokemon as much as I should (especially as a council member), I think that Victini is gonna be too much for the tier to handle (once again). It's true that UU is equipped with a lot of other strong Fire-types, but none of those are able to match Victini's versatility. For reference. Really old replay, but the point I'm trying to make still applies in this metagame. Mixed/Special Victini manhandles everything that's supposed to stop it, and even if it gets through the suspect test, It'll only be a matter of time until people find out Victini doesn't spam V-create only.

 

[Tom Bus]

My first thoughts are that Victini is probably overpowered in UU, having the capacity to 2HKO almost everything, although physically defensive mega Ampharos and Arcanine should be fairly reliable switch ins. Pursuit mega Aerodactyl is something that I used at the end of the previous Victini UU meta with decent success, especially if you can bring it in on a V-create and OHKO with pursuit after -1 defence (if it tries to switch out). Life orb Victini should be useful to break down defensive teams, and it'll definitely be interesting to see this mon retested.

 

[silenced]

I've been testing out phys def rotom h and its really good. It checks not only Victini but Mamo and those two are now the two most unwallable mons in the tier.
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 126-148 (41.4 - 48.6%) (thats the most it can do to u, keep in mind tho that mixed tini is prob going to be getting more usage this go around)
Ye thats alot of damage but u can split that damage off, its a really good pivot rn and along with a good water type can deal with fire spam, which will def be the meta now with out a doubt.

You might want a small amount of speed creep on your spread there so you don't tank 2 V-creates in a row. I think for rotom, you need 48 speed EV's to do something before tanking a second V-create.

 

[DEG]

The time has finally come, I've been waiting for that for so long. Seeing the new shifts, and the rise of Pokemon I would say to let Victini stay in UU, It has notable checks in Mandibuzz, Arcanine, Bulky Water, Salamence and more offense threats such as Feraligtr, Hydreigon, Chandelure (Didn't mention all). These Pokemon can be somehow checked by Life Orb Mixed Victini which usually carry Glaciate, Grass Knot, V-create, Blue Flare, ThunderBolt, Psychic, U-turn, it shifts between these moves. Adding to that Mega Abomasnow which checks Bulky Water, Ground, Dragon, Flying threats that Victini is scared of. Water type pokemon, such as Suicune, Mega Blastoise keeps in check Bulky fire types which resist Victini such as Arcanine.

Thanks to these move sets and Victini's team mates, I'll say to keep Victini out of UU.

 

[scolipede]

Honestly I really hope this stays banned. It can run many viable sets and it hits hella hard. This mon is too much for the uu tier even with the recent tier shifts.

 

[Winter's Howl]

I got bopped hard by Glaciate Victini. Just when you think you are safe. Hopefully the large majority of people are not running this..at least for a short while so I can get reqs :]

 

[Schpoonman]

And that's why Victini's still borked.

Question: Are people running Adamant or Jolly on their DD Salamences? EDIT: Thank ye.

 

[teal6]

And that's why Victini's still borked.

Question: Are people running Adamant or Jolly on their DD Salamences?

My most successful ORAS team so far ran a Salamence for a long time (though I've since swapped it in a newer iteration for Heracross). I believe Salamence must be running Jolly. The main threats worried about were Scarf Salamence and Hydreigon, you just cannot afford to be slower than these threats.

 

[Schpoonman]

So I just got off a game on the ladder with a set that had me going "Oh, FUCK." Endure Weakness Policy Dugtrio. He switched in on my Tentacruel, Endured the Hydro Pump, but then unfortunately misplayed and used Rock Slide instead of EQ. It's certainly worth checking out.

 

[Nysyr]

So I just got off a game on the ladder with a set that had me going "Oh, FUCK." Endure Weakness Policy Dugtrio. He switched in on my Tentacruel, Endured the Hydro Pump, but then unfortunately misplayed and used Rock Slide instead of EQ. It's certainly worth checking out.

Reminds me of the duo I've been using for lulz lately. Does require pursuit support, preferably 3 attacks roost Mega Aero.

Lucario @ Salac Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endure
- Bullet Punch
- Reversal
- Ice Punch

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Roost

 

[sniperr]

So far I've been seeing a lot of arcanines and dugrios. makes me kind of scared to even use Tini when most people are trying to counter it.

 

[firehusky]

I've just started learning UU, but I think Victini should stay in BL. With CB sets, it can almost always do lots of damage or get a kill everytime it switches in. With its choice scarf set, it can be a decent cleaner, a powerful revenge killer, and a great momentum grabber with u-turn. Life orb sets also have great coverage and it is very hard to switch into. A lot of its checks like salamence are weak to rocks and are easy to wear down, and victini can even run glaciate to lure it in. It's wallbreaking powers make balance extremely hard to build so I think it should stay banned.

 

[jeronipuff]

My baby is back :]

 

[Patrick1088]

So, ive been playing with Tini and the one thing i do like about tini is that its one of the best checks to Lucario and Infernape, but other than that, Tini is still the versatile mon its always been. I havent seen too many Victini on the actual ladder, but still see a lot of preparing for it (Tyrantrum, Chandy, etc..)

Im just going to say a point to the new people who have never been in UU when Victini was around, its not the V Create thats the problem (Houndoom, mega amphy, suicune, swampert, enteri, arcanine, rotom h, rhyperior can all tank thehit easily), its the high power bp coverage moves that it can spam easily thanks to victory star; thunder, focus blast, energy ball, grass knot, psychicm fusion bolt, etc... the unpredictability of victini puts all the pressure on the opponent while the only way you can RELIABLY check it is after it KOs something (open to pursuit, trapping but damage is done already and opponent had to sack a mon) or tini user mispredicts or opponent predicts correctly (doesn't guarantee that Victini is beaten, only that it is forced out).

Jus' saying...