np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

[Drifloon]

Rain will be a force if auto weather is banned. Gastro usage will go up even more.

Oh, and these nominations are ridiculous. I feel people want to ban anything they struggle with, even if it's something like conk lol.

 

[WildfireXIII]

Rain Dance teams weren't considered broken in last gen, and it's not like they got any significant improvements in Gen 5. Of course things might get nasty once Keldeo comes...though whether or not Keldeo will make Drizzle/Rain Dance broken is uncertain. But that is something for another time.

I think looking at the number of counters something has isn't as important as looking as the number of checks it has. Haxorus' only counter is Skarmory, but it has many, many checks. Same with Hydreigon; countering it is difficult but checking it is not.

It is for this reason that Blaziken most certainly does not deserve to be re-tested because Speed Boost make most of its previous checks not checks anymore.

 

[New World Order]

Don't know why people are nomming Deoxys N to be unbanned tho, especially when Deoxys S is being nommed so much.QUOTE]

Personally I don't think Deoxys-S is broken. As well, Deoxys-N never got a fair test at all. People simply assumed it was broken because Deoxys-A could 2HKO most of OU with even like Extremespeed. Deoxys-N just plain doesn't hit nearly as hard.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

BAN EVERY POKEMON IN THE TOP TWENTY, THEN VOTE NEXT SUSPECT TEST ON WHO TO BRING BACK DOWN.

EDIT: in case you're wondering, this is only half satirical.

So, you want to ban the top 40 ?__?

One thing about the "ban all weather noms", have you all considered the fact that without auto-weather, Rain Dance is really, really good? Sure, Ferrothorn does a number on most Rain Dance teams, but it was something that was highly controversial in an environment where no weather exists (see 4th gen UU).

...Good catch. I was about to say "lol Tyranitar", but... Wait, we have Rotom-W too.

 

[badabing]

Can we just shut up about the "zomg look what this (BAN ME PLEASE) nommed"? If there's no substance to their arguments or they are just flat out ignorant, they will obviously never make the ballot.

 

[Jaetheho]

i always liked torndaus. why isnt he used more?

specs hurricane HURTS SHIT.

 

[shrang]

Unban Brightpowder/Lax Incense - Silly ban for something that's objectively worse than Leftovers, was extended to GSC constituting a ban on two horrible items which had been allowed for more than ten years, its only abuser got his ass kicked to Uber and the other three ones (Froslass, Gliscor and Cacturne) won't even come close to broken, or at least OU-level in usage. Besides, people want to ban Sand Veil and Snow Cloak using Evasion Clause for "consistency" without realizing this would mean a ban on Cacturne in ADV Ubers: if we have to be consistent with Evasion Clause, it means the clause has to be the same in every generation! Seems only fair to me.

Ban Stone Edge - Worst move in the game, one in every five misses and one in every eight CHs, this clearly stimulates luck and thus, uncompetitiveness. We should ban everything that's solely uncompetitive (no really, do you use Stone Edge for inflicting damage? Please niggas), and this is the first step into making Pokémon a true game of chessskill. Also, Tyranitar gets nerfed so it's for the sake of the metagame and further balancing of the "weather war" OU has become.

You sir, have made my day. Thank you.

 

[-Tsunami-]

i always liked torndaus. why isnt he used more?

specs hurricane HURTS SHIT.

Thundurus is usually used over Tornadus due to his better coverage. Thundurus learns Nasty Plot, a huge advantage over Tornadus; it can also run Lum sets quite effectively, being able to dent Chansey and Blissey quite a bit, and also destroys specially defensive Jirachi. He is also less easy to revenge kill, as he resists Bullet Punch from Scizor, the main priority user in OU.

 

[Meru]

Tornados is reliant on rain and hard countered by SpDef Jirachi. Thundurus is neither.

 

[Pocket]

I would need to see significantly more mons banned from OU due to "weather boosts" before considering banning auto-weather. So far we only have Garchomp and Manaphy banned due to weather. Even if Thundurus, Excadrill, and Landorus get banned, it would most likely not convince me that weather is the culprit, since they were all great mons in their own right, regardless of weather (yes even Sand Force Excadrill; outruns Rotom-W), and it's not worth losing the benefit weather brings to other mons.

 

[Joel]

You sir, have made my day. Thank you.

I agreed with your statement about banning Excadrill in the other thread, and I agree that Bright Powder/Lax Incense were silly bans, as well, but I hope you can't seriously be agreeing with Mario with Lasers on the rest of his post.

He rants about consistency in the first portion of his post, but becomes inconsistent himself in the second part. He nominates Stone Edge, yet did not nominate Cross Chop??? A move that hits more types for SE damage, and does the exact same thing.

I am aware that there are a grand total of thirteen Pokemon that get Cross Chop, and there are only four of those thirteen that use it effectively, and only one of those four are even viable in OU Standard (The four, imo, being Toxicroak, Magmortar, Electivire, and Elekid), but still, despite a different, yet all around better typing, it does the same thing.

Please, don't cheer him on. He's clearly needs to learn to actually practice what he preaches.

 

[X5Dragon]

No, it's not a joke.
UU is all about hail ._.
The #1 guy on the UU ladder uses hail as well.

ROFL.
There you go, you either ban them all or ban none of them, and the latter didn't work.

Also I kind of regret not waiting for a special application approval before posting in that topic, seeing how many non applicable users and their nominations almost felt like the first time Eminem heard Ice Ice Baby.

Srsly we all need to agree on how to vote against weather, so we don't have a shattered vote and in the end nothing gets banned. I'm calling out all voters who want to have weather/weather related pokemon and abilities to be banned here.

Lets agree on a common solution and work to get a super majority vote for it.

1) Exadrill is manageable without Sand Stream, and a lot are proposing the return of Chomp and Manaphy if the auto-weathers are gone.

2) Some of you want to ban weather abilities, but at the same time have no problem with a user using damp rock + rain dance and then sending out that swift swim Kingdra, so let's not ban abilities here, just ban the free broken stuff.

 

[Woodchuck]

I agreed with your statement about banning Excadrill in the other thread, and I agree that Bright Powder/Lax Incense were silly bans, as well, but I hope you can't seriously be agreeing with Mario with Lasers on the rest of his post.

He rants about consistency in the first portion of his post, but becomes inconsistent himself in the second part. He nominates Stone Edge, yet did not nominate Cross Chop??? A move that hits more types for SE damage, and does the exact same thing.

I am aware that there are a grand total of thirteen Pokemon that get Cross Chop, and there are only four of those thirteen that use it effectively, and only one of those four are even viable in OU Standard (The four, imo, being Toxicroak, Magmortar, Electivire, and Elekid), but still, despite a different, yet all around better typing, it does the same thing.

Please, don't cheer him on. He's clearly needs to learn to actually practice what he preaches.

Yes, because Mario With Lasers was totally serious.
if he had been serious he would have mentioned focus blast

Edit to insure against infraction:
I've just been trying a team with SubMoxie Gyarados and to my surprise it's actually really, really, good. Gyarados has great natural bulk and can easily get up a sub on Gastrodon, so it fits well in rain. People having to sac pokes to break my sub (consequently giving me +1) just makes Gyarados even more potent.

I also think that Excadrill centralizes the metagame around countering it and if we banned Excadrill, the speed tiers would be resolved, the difficulty of hyper offense and stall would be somewhat ameliorated, and Thundurus would not be as broken thanks to scarfers being viable again.
Too bad I didn't have enough time to make reqs, lol

 

[shrang]

I agreed with your statement about banning Excadrill in the other thread, and I agree that Bright Powder/Lax Incense were silly bans, as well, but I hope you can't seriously be agreeing with Mario with Lasers on the rest of his post.

He rants about consistency in the first portion of his post, but becomes inconsistent himself in the second part. He nominates Stone Edge, yet did not nominate Cross Chop??? A move that hits more types for SE damage, and does the exact same thing.

I am aware that there are a grand total of thirteen Pokemon that get Cross Chop, and there are only four of those thirteen that use it effectively, and only one of those four are even viable in OU Standard (The four, imo, being Toxicroak, Magmortar, Electivire, and Elekid), but still, despite a different, yet all around better typing, it does the same thing.

Please, don't cheer him on. He's clearly needs to learn to actually practice what he preaches.

I'm not agreeing with it. I just got a nice laugh out of it, and I'm pretty sure that it was a joke anyway.

 

[Joel]

I'm not agreeing with it. I just got a nice laugh out of it, and I'm pretty sure that it was a joke anyway.

I hope so, but sarcasm in text is hard to read.

 

[pedrokabu]

Could I make a little suggestion for people too afraid of Baton Pass teams? Punishment; it's like Stored Power, but against your opponent. I know, being forced to use one move to get rid of an annoying situation isn't something people usually like, but... cofcofrapidspincofcof

About the silly nominatings, I think these people (almost?) never used the Pokémon they put on the suspect board. To make a fair jugdement, you should see both sides of the question, and I believe this principle can be applied to competitive Pokémon, too.

 

[Blue_Star]

Imo, Manaphy and Blaziken are broken even if drizzle/drought are banned. The former has a fucking +3 special attack instant boost, is bulkier than scrafty, faster than hydreigon and has only 2 weakness, while most revenge killers (such as scarf latios, landorus, hydreigon, or excadrill) fail to revenge it. Blaziken is broken as well because it lacks surefire counters in OU and can't be revenged due to Protect + Speed Boost, as well as +2 HJK OHKOing everything.

 

[shrang]

Wait, who was it that said Balloon Lucario was a good check for offensive teams for Excadrill? Issues with Balloon getting popped early aside, +2 LO Return does 77.30% - 91.13% to your Lucario. Not exactly my idea of an "excellent check".

 

[Blue_Star]

Not to menton some excadrill also have brick break. Still, i don't think exca should be banned as of now, because he doesn't really meet the offensive uber characteristics, while there are pokemon that do and are still OU (dragonite, thundurus).

 

[Mario With Lasers]

I agreed with your statement about banning Excadrill in the other thread, and I agree that Bright Powder/Lax Incense were silly bans, as well, but I hope you can't seriously be agreeing with Mario with Lasers on the rest of his post.

Please, don't cheer him on. He's clearly needs to learn to actually practice what he preaches.

You guys are fooling yourselves if you can't see half of those nominations are jokes.

Eh...

Not to menton some excadrill also have brick break. Still, i don't think exca should be banned as of now, because he doesn't really meet the offensive uber characteristics, while there are pokemon that do and are still OU (dragonite, thundurus).

Well, it's not like we ~need~ the pokémon to meet those characteristics in BW anymore.

 

[Rurushu]

Are we still banning things based on uber characteristics? I'm not sure but i don't think so. Every single weather inducer (except abomasnow because hail sucks) undoubtely fits in support characteristics, so they would have been banned right from the start if we were still following the "Portrait of an Uber" thread. Instead, i think we are following this.

 

[-Tsunami-]

Are we still banning things based on uber characteristics? I'm not sure but i don't think so. Every single weather inducer (except abomasnow because hail sucks) undoubtely fits in support characteristics, so they would have been banned right from the start if we were still following the "Portrait of an Uber" thread. Instead, i think we are following this.

Nope, we're not (to the question of banning things based on uber characteristics).

 

[haunter]

No, we're no longer requesting that you vote according to the uber characteristics, though they can still be used as basic guidelines.

 

[New World Order]

No, we're no longer requesting that you vote according to the uber characteristics, though they can still be used as basic guidelines.

So voters can just vote to ban mons that they don't like dealing with...

I believe that Manaphy is broken regarless of Drizzle. Tail Glow+Substitute+2attacks would shred OU regardless. Blaziken on the other hand, deserves another test IMO.

 

[Sir Azelf]

If Blaziken is re tested, Drought needs banning first and foremost. Keeping Drought and testing Blaziken is stupid because drought was essentially one of the main it was banned in the first place so it seems really counter productive. I also hate these ignorant claims that people make such as "well Gliscor, Mence, Gyara, Jelli, Lati etc wall it so it should be retested" if you'd kindly do calcs in the sun you'd see that SD Flare Blitz with LEFTOVERS (post intimidate) and SR up OHKO's all of them apart from Jellicent who cannot do anything back to you. This is the same case for every check and counter apart from Slowbro (ok Chandelure walls the broken set which was SD/Protect/Flare Blitz/HJK but thats on the verge of being UU) and that only wins in sun because of Psychic. I especially like the Gliscor claim though as its KO'd even outside of sun with SD LO FB. Onto priority, because what exactly is going to KO it with priority apart from maybe CB Nite lol ? (In Drought even Aqua Jet is doing nothing). TL;DR; if Drought is banned then you may have a valid case for it being retested.

On a side note, I dont think people who are nomming to retest Blaziken in the current meta remember the Tickle Wobbuffet + Pursuit Scizor + Blaziken core spam with sun teams that were abused in past rounds which make sweeping with Blaziken easy as you get kills on Toed and Slowbro too. Iirc it was KG who abused this strat and got to #1 with it.