np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

[Raikaria]

Not to mention Jelli-Thorn in the rain is nightmareish.

Jellicent effectivly has a x 4 resistance to Fire, and is immune to Fighting.

Ferrothorn isn't OHKO'ed by much in the whole game except Superpowers from the likes of CB Azumarill, or other insanely powerful attacks. Not to mention he resists all of Jelly's weaknesses.

Jellicent gets a boost to Scald/Surf, making him hit decently hard... like Ferrothorn already does.

Mercifully, Rotom-W can cause havok on that core in the rain with Thunder for Jellicent and his stupidly strong Hydro Pumps that actually manage to dent Ferrothorn. But rotom-W causes havok for Rain full stop.

Throw in something like... Gliscor, and you have a defensive core that it very difficult to break, and resists EVERY SINGLE TYPE, all with decent offenses to prevent being set-up bait, forms of recovery [Recover, Poision Heal and Leech Seed]. You still have 3 more teamslots as well [2 if you're running Politoad for the rain boosts to Ferro and Jelli, but that's 100% optional]

Rotom-W is still a pain, however.

 

[GtM]

I suppose the main reason I haven't had a problem with Jellicent + Ferrothorn is that I run Nasty Plot Lucario, and it sets up on both of them with ease. :P Either that, or Gastrodon destroys them both with +1 Specs Earth Power.

 

[alexwolf]

Not to mention Jelli-Thorn in the rain is nightmareish.

Jellicent effectivly has a x 4 resistance to Fire, and is immune to Fighting.

Ferrothorn isn't OHKO'ed by much in the whole game except Superpowers from the likes of CB Azumarill, or other insanely powerful attacks. Not to mention he resists all of Jelly's weaknesses.

Jellicent gets a boost to Scald/Surf, making him hit decently hard... like Ferrothorn already does.

Mercifully, Rotom-W can cause havok on that core in the rain with Thunder for Jellicent and his stupidly strong Hydro Pumps that actually manage to dent Ferrothorn. But rotom-W causes havok for Rain full stop.

Throw in something like... Gliscor, and you have a defensive core that it very difficult to break, and resists EVERY SINGLE TYPE, all with decent offenses to prevent being set-up bait, forms of recovery [Recover, Poision Heal and Leech Seed]. You still have 3 more teamslots as well [2 if you're running Politoad for the rain boosts to Ferro and Jelli, but that's 100% optional]

Rotom-W is still a pain, however.

This core doesn't resist flying and so specs Tornadus wrecks it.Everything is 2hkoed by Hurricane except from Ferro who takes 40% damage on average iirc and with some residual damage he can be killed easily.

 

[BurningMan]

This core doesn't resist flying and so specs Tornadus wrecks it.Everything is 2hkoed by Hurricane except from Ferro who takes 40% damage on average iirc and with some residual damage he can be killed easily.

252/252+ Ferro takes 45-54% damage by Specs Hurricane and LO variants destroy it with Focusblast.
Tornadus is really hard to use though its biggest enemys Scizor/Rotom-W/Jirachi are everywhere (not rare that a team even uses all of them) and are all hard to take out (magnezone helps but both use U-Turn commonly ).

 

[Raikaria]

I missed Flying. My error there, 4 gens of being a rubbish offensive type and all. [Well, it's still not brilliant even with 2 Base 120 moves :/]

But seeing as we're saying Specs Tornadus spamming Hurricane, I presume this means Rain is up.

Which means Tornadus is ruined by Scald from Jellicent, and Specially Defensive Jellicent won't be OHKO'ed [Why run physical? You've got Gliscor]

Ferrothorn also survives, and can ruin Tornadus with Gyro Ball.

Of course, that's assumeing the 30% chance of confusion, followed by the 50% chance of hurting yourself dosen't kick in. Which it likly won't.

Not to mention Tornadus is hardly a factor in OU as it is.

 

[WinstonShnozwick]

How viable is Gyarados in the current metagame? I really like him, and he's actually deceptively bulkier than you would imagine, and is pretty good at attacking.

shame his special attack can't be helped, he has an amazing special movepool, with boltbeam coverage too.

 

[blarajan]

Flying has never been a terrible offensive typing. In fact, it's always been an amazing one. Nothing is immune to it and the types that are resistant (Rock, Electric, Steel) are all hit by Ground type moves super effectively. Many pokemon that could use their Flying STAB could use a Ground type move, or a fighting type move, for coverage, such as Staraptor. Or the ones that get Earthquake or something.

 

[WinstonShnozwick]

Speaking of Gyarados's flying typing, his only STAB flying move is bounce. How good is this? I mean, for stabs, it's a nice one to have, decently powerful, and the amazing 30% paralyze chance. Just bad acc and the 2 turn thing. I really don't know what to think about the 2 turn move that bounce is. How bad is it, does it make bounce completely unviable? I use bounce, because it's a stab that he needs with water, but the 2 turn thing is so shut down by protect, and essentially gives the opponent a free turn when they catch on.

oh and also, boosting gyara's spec def and giving him fire blast is not crazy at all. in fact, I've gotten great surprise KO's because of it, and it stops ferrothorn from walling him to hell.

 

[blarajan]

Bounce is very usable. Protect is annoying, but it gives you an extra turn of passive damage and healing on your opponent. You gain leftovers, they take extra sandstorm, toxic, burn, whatever. It's still pretty good.

 

[alexwolf]

252/252+ Ferro takes 45-54% damage by Specs Hurricane and LO variants destroy it with Focusblast.
Tornadus is really hard to use though its biggest enemys Scizor/Rotom-W/Jirachi are everywhere (not rare that a team even uses all of them) and are all hard to take out (magnezone helps but both use U-Turn commonly ).

I was just reffering to Raikaria and how Tornadus wrecks his defensive core.And seeing as he already has 1 water and 1 steel(Burungeru and Ferro) i think that it is very unlikely that he will have one of the pokes you mentioned...

I missed Flying. My error there, 4 gens of being a rubbish offensive type and all. [Well, it's still not brilliant even with 2 Base 120 moves :/]

But seeing as we're saying Specs Tornadus spamming Hurricane, I presume this means Rain is up.

Which means Tornadus is ruined by Scald from Jellicent, and Specially Defensive Jellicent won't be OHKO'ed [Why run physical? You've got Gliscor]

Ferrothorn also survives, and can ruin Tornadus with Gyro Ball.

Of course, that's assumeing the 30% chance of confusion, followed by the 50% chance of hurting yourself dosen't kick in. Which it likly won't.

Not to mention Tornadus is hardly a factor in OU as it is.

Yes i took rain as a given 'cause you mentioned that this core works wonders especially under rain...
Tornadus doesn't need to take any hit.Tornadus will be coming on something he can scare out like Gliscor or something else in your team and then he is guaranteed to kill something in your team either with a ohko or with a 2hko.

 

[Eggbert]

CB Terrakion ftw anyone? You can't just slap on a Gliscor and expect to check this thing.

 

[SJCrew]

You sure can. The strongest Terrakion's got against Gliscor is Stone Edge, which does a maximum of 49%. Gliscor easily avoids the 2HKO with Poison Heal, and of course, it's always safe on Close Combat.

 

[dori]

I wouldn't risk Gliscor to something that highly capable of hacking it's way right through you. Of course that can be said for any Pokemon against its counter, but with Gliscor a such important glue to most team, you really really don't want to expose Gliscor to potential critical hits. Remember it's probably someone's game plan to Stone Edge once or twice and then just let Excadrill take care of the rest. Terrakion most likely is never meant to actually sweep anyone, but to soften a lot of shit up for something else to sweep, or vice versa.

Although I like 4 Atk LO Terrakion much better, -SpAtk HPIce still nets a healthy 2HKO with Poison Heal.

 

[Eggbert]

It does 44.1% - 52.5% to 252 / 188 + so Gliscor is going to be in really bad shape after SR and it pretty much needs to be at completely full health. Either way switching into Terrakion and then trying to counter Excadrill isn't too easy. EQ doesn't even OHKO back if you really need that gliscor dead.

 

[SJCrew]

I'm assuming max/max Gliscor, so it's not a shaky calc at all. Arguments factoring critical hits are a joke, let's not go there. I could just as easily say Stone Edge misses for the failure to 2HKO and Gliscor easily protects a free 12.5% back to keep it even further out of reach. At the end of the day, the best switch in for Rak is still Gliscor, unless you want to fish UU for Nidoqueen and Golurk.

 

[alphatron]

Speaking of golurk, I've been trying to use his lately. Being the best swiitch in for terrakion isn't enough to win me over, but he runs a decent sub punch set with iron first. He's also one of the few ghosts who isn't instantly met with a tyranitar or CB Scizor whenever he hits the field.

The resistance to rock and immunity to fighting means that he can setup on a lot of things in the metagame currently. The rock polish set doesn't work at all though. And I seriously wish that he had the elemental punches. If not the elemental punches, then at least the pinch berries...

 

[-Tsunami-]

To the above comment: I agree, having the elemental punches would make Golurk a much more viable pokemon. I mean Togekiss, which has no hands, can learn Focus Punch, but something with 2 big usable hands that can learn Focus Punch cant? It'll be interesting when no guard gets released, as Golurk's typing is better than Machamp's, and another Dynamic Punch user could be very interesting.

 

[Pocket]

Elemental punches as in Ice - Thunder - Fire Punch. Golurk learns Focus Punch at level 70.
Interestingly it learns Ice Beam & Thunderbolt, so you can pick one to prevent either Gliscor or Gyarados from freely switching in. I'd chose Ice Beam, since Golurk still has Stone-Edge for Gyarados.

With no investment, Brave Golurk with lefties does 61% min to Gliscor with Ice Beam ;d

SubPunch - Ice Beam - Shadow Punch / Stone-Edge / EQ?

Shadow Punch is great for hitting the many Psychic and Ghost types and offers great coverage. Same story with Stone-Edge. STAB EQ is redundant with Focus Punch, but it is the move that lets it counter Terrakion.

How viable is Gyarados in the current metagame? I really like him, and he's actually deceptively bulkier than you would imagine, and is pretty good at attacking.

shame his special attack can't be helped, he has an amazing special movepool, with boltbeam coverage too.

I've been using Gyarados as a defensive glue and it works since DPP. Even with no Atk investment, 286 is a decent attack to bang stuff up with. Taunt is an essential move on Gyarados, preventing slower mons from setting up hazards. Taunt actually help it break walls by preventing them from healing. Combined with Dragon Tail, Taunt shuts down SmashPass or Baton Pass teams and rack up entry hazard damages. Dragon Tail and Taunt essentially prevents Gyarados from becoming a set-up bait, which is important. It can also provide some mean paralysis support with Thunder Wave, although sometimes I prefer the raw power of retaliatory Avalanche that can finish off dragons and grass types, or Stone-Edge / EQ for means to hit Water Types for good damage.

Last but not least, Intimidate plus its unique Typing is what makes it a distinctive defensive monster. It can cover Metagross (without T-punch / Zen Headbutt), Scizor, Gliscor, Infernape, Darmanitan, Volcarona, Heatran, Lucario, Conkeldurr (without Stone-Edge), and Jirachi (without T-Punch / Thunder). It can even sponge a hit from Excadrill to take it out under the Rain. As you can see, it can wall both physical and special offense.

Of course Stealth Rock, Rock moves, and Electric moves end Gyarados, so Conkeldurr, a Grass Type, and either an Espeon or a Rapid Spinner would be good partners

 

[Prankster]

I personally think Claydol is a good switch in to Terrakion, bar x-scissors
Speaking of Machamp, I find it annoying that it does not get drain punch, despite getting nearly every punch and being the premier fighting type of gen 1. Extra healing on machamp will definately help its survivability and possibly make it a bigger threat insead of being sooo close to dropping to UU.
PS today is August 2 iirc and I cant find the nominations thread. They are usually stickied or in blind voting, but its strange how that thread was not put up.

 

[WinstonShnozwick]

I've been using Gyarados as a defensive glue and it works since DPP. Even with no Atk investment, 286 is a decent attack to bang stuff up with. Taunt is an essential move on Gyarados, preventing slower mons from setting up hazards. Taunt actually help it break walls by preventing them from healing. Combined with Dragon Tail, Taunt shuts down SmashPass or Baton Pass teams and rack up entry hazard damages. Dragon Tail and Taunt essentially prevents Gyarados from becoming a set-up bait, which is important. It can also provide some mean paralysis support with Thunder Wave, although sometimes I prefer the raw power of retaliatory Avalanche that can finish off dragons and grass types, or Stone-Edge / EQ for means to hit Water Types for good damage.

Last but not least, Intimidate plus its unique Typing is what makes it a distinctive defensive monster. It can cover Metagross (without T-punch / Zen Headbutt), Scizor, Gliscor, Infernape, Darmanitan, Volcarona, Heatran, Lucario, Conkeldurr (without Stone-Edge), and Jirachi (without T-Punch / Thunder). It can even sponge a hit from Excadrill to take it out under the Rain. As you can see, it can wall both physical and special offense.

Of course Stealth Rock, Rock moves, and Electric moves end Gyarados, so Conkeldurr, a Grass Type, and either an Espeon or a Rapid Spinner would be good partners

Thanks for shedding light on more of his abilities. He certainly can be good defensively. I'm using him as the face of my team currently, with a tank set, sponge hits and hit hard back. With rock as a weakness to 4 mons on my team, what could be a good mon to help with that weakness?

I've been doing some tests with gyarados, and he has a gem of a special movepool. How would one go about making a MixGyara set? He has great potential there actually, and the element of surprise gives you KO's pretty nicely. Gimmicky sounding, but could absorb bulb work? Give him high sp def, and he can switch in on water attacks for that boost.

 

[alphatron]

As one who has used a naive gyarados with fire blast on a sun team before for the purpose of killing ferrothorn (which it fails to do), I can say with certainty that abusing his special moveset isn't worth it. The surprise factor is useless when the surprise doesn't accomplish anything. If you want a physical attacker who can get away with using special attacks, use Cranidos in LC or Sheer Force Tauros.

As mentioned, conkeldurr is a good partner for gyarados. So is virizion and bronzong.

 

[SJCrew]

To the above comment: I agree, having the elemental punches would make Golurk a much more viable pokemon. I mean Togekiss, which has no hands, can learn Focus Punch, but something with 2 big usable hands that can learn Focus Punch cant? It'll be interesting when no guard gets released, as Golurk's typing is better than Machamp's, and another Dynamic Punch user could be very interesting.

That's because Togekiss evolved from something with hands: Togepi and Togetic.

As "interesting" as Golurk is, not beating Gliscor is always a deal-breaker. We already have enough things walled by it, including the greatest sweeper in OU. I'll even take a No Guard Blizzard over what Golurk has now. Seriously.

 

[Pocket]

^ With no investment, Brave Golurk with lefties does 61% min to Gliscor with Ice Beam ;d. Even with Adamant or Impish Nature, it scores a solid 2HKO (55-65%).

 

[blarajan]

Speaking of running - nature special attacks to beat Gliscor, why don't more Terrakion run Rock Polish/Close Combat/Stone Edge/HP Ice? Gliscor switch ins are obvious and it 2hkoes every time, even with a - nature.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Without a swords dance it lacks the power to actually sweep, outspeeding things is nice and all but thats not going to sweep whole teams.