np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

[Olijolly]

I mosly play ou but keldeo is great, also mixnite never works for me because life orb is the best item and it breaks multi scale and i end up getting ohkoed a lot, although i will try out mixmence.

Also i find cb terrakion to destroy skarmbliss and most defensive cores but it requires a lot of prediction for the correct move

Yeah mixed nite with multiscale will lose out on superpower which is a meh
Also cb terra is nice but out of the things you mentioned...it gets wrecked by gliscor...and jellicent can be a problem if you dont run eq

For mixed mence I always feel like it's not bulky enough though but yeah

 

[Tobes]

Actually CB Terrakion wrecks Gliscor and Jellicent with Stone Edge. Nothing can safely switch into it, really. It can also emergency revenge kill with Quick Attack. It's a really great underrated set, and it also pairs well with sand sweepers because Skarm and Glis can't come in without risking a 2HKO.

 

[Bobmonkey07]

hey does anyone know of any good mixed sweepers, or things that can break apart tough defensive cores, like skarmbliss, skarmbliss and gliscor, jellicent ferrothorn, im pretty sure fighting stab is the key to breaking these cores but can anyone help me out?

i had a few people saying that i'm basically an idiot for using it, but electivire works well for me.
cross chop-blissey/chansey
ice punch-sp def skarm/gliscor(it doesn't always 2 shot it though :/)
flamethrower-skarm/ferro
wild charge-jellicent.

 

[IcyMan28]

Infernape still works, too. The old NP / Close Combat / Fire Blast / Grass Knot helps with pretty much everything you listed, though you need to have something that can deal with Dragonite/Latios/Latias.

 

[alphatron]

Infernape himself can deal with dragonite if you're running sun support (provided that Multiscale is gone. SR is appreciated). Actually, Infernape himself can deal with Latios too if you manage to catch him on the switch. If running sun support, you don't even need grass knot that much, since you're probably only running it for Jellicient, and the few quagsires and gastrodons running around.

You know, I really must thank Rotom-W for keeping me from using any water type pokemon that isn't Quagsire, Gastrodon, or Lanturn. When Vaporeon needs to partner with Blissey, we kind of have a problem...

Oh yeah. Camerupt isn't as bad as I thought.

 

[Ewil]

i've used MixApe with LO and a set like CC/grass knot/overheat/mach punch.
He works extremely well even in sand (yeah, have short life but works)

 

[alexwolf]

I did some playtest with CB Terakion and i can't say i was amazed...
Yes he packs a lot of power but still he cannot 2hko his common counters.Full health skarmory avoids the 2hko while steadily regaining health with lefties and roost!He can easily stall for CC's 8 pps to finish unless of 'course a crit happens...
Also many gliscor's nowadays run Protect so killing them is even harder.IIrc a healthy Gliscor never gets 2hkoed by SE(or wants really big damage rolls which just never happens considering SE's accuracy).Then he can also stall you out from pps with protect or just kill you with EQ.However in Gliscor's case it will be certainly weakened so something like Dory can clean up...
Also Hipo,which i have seen quite a lot lately also avoids the 2hko from CC and just stalls out ur pps or just straight up ohkos.However if he kos he is left with 10% life which is bad for him but still...
Anyway my point is that even with prediction(which is the key factor for any choiced attacker)he doesn't seem so great to me...
I don't know maybe i am not using him right...
The truth is that i don't have any sand abuser like landorus or exca that benefit from gliscor's or skarmory's removal but i still have some physical attackers that do like breloom and scizor...
But for me the double dancer set definitely seems better now.I prefer having to remove priority users and gliscor(or have him weakened)than being locked into the right move and not packing enough power.Just a matter of preferance i suppose...

 

[Eggbert]

Has anyone given smash passing a go? A 2+ / 2+ Scrafty is actually instoppable with the set I'm running. Bulk Up / Drain Punch / Ice Punch / Crunch with lum and moxie. Get the bulk up which stops conk and dory from revenging (dory does like 40% with EQ) and then drain punch back up to full. Lum stops status one time which is really all you need. Moxie is what makes it work as your attack boosts keep adding up and you can keep recovering health with drain punch. It isn't stopped by status, most priority, it can't be worn down easily, and it has coverage and increasing attack boosts. Everytime I've gotten a pass to him it's been a 6-0. Then again I'm still new to smash passing so it can be tough. (Hope this is relevant!!!)

 

[alphatron]

I've never liked Choice Band Terrakion but balloon double dance terrakion is a boss. Unliuke the CB set, it can reliably kill both Gliscor and Hippodown on it's own, even if either pokemon were to switch in on the sword's dance.

 

[Meru]

You know, I really must thank Rotom-W for keeping me from using any water type pokemon that isn't Quagsire, Gastrodon, or Lanturn. When Vaporeon needs to partner with Blissey, we kind of have a problem.

Yep I said this a few pages back but everybody was too busy arguing about Drizzle. Vaporeon, Milotic, and Slowbro all get held back from being the bulky walls they could be because they're always met by Rotom-W switching in unscathed. People say Ferrothorn killed bulky waters this gen, but I think it was Rotom-W that's murdering them all.

The only one that seems to shine past Rotom-W is Jellicent, which only does so because of the assload of utility it offers.

 

[FunLovin]

Has anyone given smash passing a go? A 2+ / 2+ Scrafty is actually instoppable with the set I'm running. Bulk Up / Drain Punch / Ice Punch / Crunch with lum and moxie. Get the bulk up which stops conk and dory from revenging (dory does like 40% with EQ) and then drain punch back up to full. Lum stops status one time which is really all you need. Moxie is what makes it work as your attack boosts keep adding up and you can keep recovering health with drain punch. It isn't stopped by status, most priority, it can't be worn down easily, and it has coverage and increasing attack boosts. Everytime I've gotten a pass to him it's been a 6-0. Then again I'm still new to smash passing so it can be tough. (Hope this is relevant!!!)

I have to say I love SmashPass teams :) I'm a 2 week old noob and even I can pull them off to some success.

I just hate how much of a gamble they are. You either get the Smash and sweep, or the enemy counters your Smash and you lose.

Personally I use D-Night and Lucario in my SmashPass teams, but to each his own.

Also why aren't more people using Brellom to counter Excadrill? As long as he isn't using X-Scizor you should do fine, or am I missing something?

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Also why aren't more people using Brellom to counter Excadrill? As long as he isn't using X-Scizor you should do fine, or am I missing something?

Well, he isn't really a counter...he can't switch in on X-scissor or Return, or even Swords Dance for that matter.

He's just a check, but idk, Breloom isn't really that great anymore IMO.

 

[FunLovin]

idk man he fucks over my SmashPass team like there's no tomorrow. Maybe I just need to learn how to fight the walking 1-Up, but damn he scares me more then any grass type out there.

(until serperior gets her dream world ability)

 

[astrohawke]

Also why aren't more people using Brellom to counter Excadrill? As long as he isn't using X-Scizor you should do fine, or am I missing something?

Because no one even uses mach punch breloom except in DW and without mach punch it can't do much except spore.

 

[AlphaSpade]

Well, he isn't really a counter...he can't switch in on X-scissor or Return, or even Swords Dance for that matter.

He's just a check, but idk, Breloom isn't really that great anymore IMO.

Bulky SubSeeder is the way to go, as it's a solid check against variants that don't run LO Return.

 

[SJCrew]

People say Ferrothorn killed bulky waters this gen, but I think it was Rotom-W that's murdering them all.

Would you say "murdered" or "replaced"? I mean, why would you take a bulky Water-type with one STAB, two weaknesses, and no WoW when you can just go vice versa with Rotom-W? It seems to me like the bulky Water types of this gen are usually just not as good as Rotom. And it's probably singlehandedly spiking the usage of Celebi, who kills it on the regular and doesn't care about a single move in its arsenal.

 

[alphatron]

Rotom-W hasn't replaced them. Rotom-W isn't even used as a bulky water that often-his most common EV spread is an offensive variant. He can't phase or wishpass like vaporeon. He can't take even SE hits like Milotic. He doesn't have regenerator and can't setup like Slowbro/Slowking can. If you wanted to run a bulky water than can do what Rotom-W can't do, then you'll find that you're out of luck once he uses your bulky water as a free switch in for himself.

For the record, shaymin handles him too.

 

[astrohawke]

Yea rotom-w isn't really that bulky. Typing is great and all but he's not really tanking anything really powerful which is most things this gen. WoW not completely necessary given scald and the fact that he has to resort to hydro pump for his water stab isn't so great for a tank. You really don't want to be missing on that landorus or excadrill when they're at +2. Overall he's better used more offensively.

 

[shrang]

Speaking of Rotom-W, are there any good lures for that thing?

 

[Bobmonkey07]

Speaking of Rotom-W, are there any good lures for that thing?

i like gyrados. from there, have a switch that can take a volt switch.

 

[Matthew]

Ttar is an okay lure but the best you'll get off is a scarf crunch. Nothing really lures it in which is annoying as fuck considering its power during rain. Honestly the really only good way i have handled it is start switching and leech seed ferro. If anything its probably switching weather (like most sweepers these days) or passively damaging it through stealth rock. Though paralysis is great too!

 

[Pocket]

There may not be a lure to dispatch Rotom-W, but you can lure in Rotom-W as an opportunity to set-up your Breloom, Virizion, CM Latis, CM / SD Pass Celebi, and Subseed Shaymin.

 

[Mike Legend]

I did some playtest with CB Terakion and i can't say i was amazed...
Yes he packs a lot of power but still he cannot 2hko his common counters.Full health skarmory avoids the 2hko while steadily regaining health with lefties and roost!He can easily stall for CC's 8 pps to finish unless of 'course a crit happens...

or maybe you should check your EVs. 535 Atk vs 416 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 166 - 196 (49.70% - 58.68%) That's a 2HKO 100% of the time after Stealth Rock, and even with no Stealth Rock and Leftovers you 2HKO 67% of the time.

Also many gliscor's nowadays run Protect so killing them is even harder.IIrc a healthy Gliscor never gets 2hkoed by SE(or wants really big damage rolls which just never happens considering SE's accuracy).Then he can also stall you out from pps with protect or just kill you with EQ.However in Gliscor's case it will be certainly weakened so something like Dory can clean up.

Even if it has Protect it won't be coming in on a Stone Edge again after that.

Also Hipo,which i have seen quite a lot lately also avoids the 2hko from CC and just stalls out ur pps or just straight up ohkos.However if he kos he is left with 10% life which is bad for him but still...
Anyway my point is that even with prediction(which is the key factor for any choiced attacker)he doesn't seem so great to me...

Well Hippo's like the bulkiest physical wall in OU and still takes up to 52% and can be 2HKOd 20% of the time and 100% of the time with a layer of Spikes.

But for me the double dancer set definitely seems better now.I prefer having to remove priority users and gliscor(or have him weakened)than being locked into the right move and not packing enough power.Just a matter of preferance i suppose...

lol what

 

[alphatron]

I take back what I said about Camerupt. People other than me have begun running hidden power water on thundurus, so he can't counter him anymore. Not only that, but using a pokemon who's less bulky than Ninetales overall as a special wall wasn't exactly the brightest idea.

As I post this, I'm fighting in a match against a thundurus...Sigh...

Edit: So Shed shell magnezone switches out of dugtrio into Metagross on the turn I use Memento. I'm sorry, but I thought we were supposed to be playing pokemon against human beings. And how did the magnezone know my Ninetales wouldn't kill it? My opponent knew I would assume Zone had a scarf?

 

[Matthew]

What use does HP Water have on Thundurus? Doesn't Thunder(bolt) Focus Blast and Hidden Power Ice give better coverage? I can't think of one thing that HP Water would hit over his other moves.