1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

np: RU Stage 9 - Shadows of the Night

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Oglemi, Aug 14, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Oglemi

    Oglemi I love you wonderful Minun-Kun!
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,820
    Well last round we saw the introduction of Nidoqueen and Escavalier into the tier, as well as the release of BW2 which brought with it Hurricane Moltres and an abundance of released DW abilities. After a long road, it was finally determined that Nidoqueen and Moltres were not broken, and have a home here in RU.

    However, as of August 9th, Shadow Tag Gothitelle has been unleashed unto the tier. So what are we going to experience this round? With Gothitelle rule all and be banned, or will the tier be able to adapt? Can't wait to find out!

    This round will "hopefully" end on September 7th. However, the council may decide to initiate a quick vote on Gothitelle should she prove too much for the tier, at which point voting would take place on or around August 24th.

    We'll keep you posted on the situation with the ladder on PS! If we are able to use that and it's up and running soon, that's the method we'll use to determine non-senate member voters. However, if it's not, it'll be like this most recent round and SilentVerse and myself will handpick additional voters. Be sure to have a strong IRC and forum presence should that occur!

    Have fun!

    [youtube]DgNqQ6rFGQo[/youtube]
  2. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,868
    At first, i thought gothitelle was going to be a terrible presence in RU and should have been banned Asap. But after playing with it both in fun matches on the ladder, ive changed my opinion. Gothitelle doesnt seem like a bad influence imo, i havent had any trouble with it so far, and while it is a very useful pokemon for taking out certain opponents, its not capable of bringing a full stop to EVERYTHING. It kinda reminds me of dugtrio in that sense, dugtrio is able to easily trap and eliminate certain opponents in OU, but it often becomes dead weight if the user mispredicts and/or if the opponent doesnt have anything it can take advantage. Some common defensive pokemon in the tier also outright beat it (cofagrigus, drapion, spiritomb), or can run shed shell with little trouble (Slowking, Tangrowth, Amoonguss). Two INCREDIBLE teammates for gothitelle are Klinklang and Crawdaunt, both pokemon benefit from the support gothitelle provides, while they also resist gothitelle's weaknesses (including pursuit!). If the opponent uses pursuit with a bandtomb after you trap their counter/check, they are going to have a much harder beating your sweeper. I see blackglasses/dread plate tomb becoming more common/popular due to not being locked into pursuit and being total set up bait after taking out goth.
  3. SpecsX

    SpecsX

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    370
    I highly doubt Goth will be banned. Low Defense and no recovery really hurts it(although I have seen resttalk Goth). He has a decent HP Stat, but it isn't huge like Wobbuffet's
  4. Radiant Miku

    Radiant Miku

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Messages:
    22
    I agree, unless "he"'ll receive enough usage in higher tiers...
  5. august

    august free the robots
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winnerwon the 5th Official Smogon Tournament

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,037
    Goth does not have low defense, especially not for RU.

    Regardless I do not think it will be banned, although it does limit defensive playing in a similar manor to nidoqueen..
  6. SpecsX

    SpecsX

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    370
    I said "HE" because the the Shadow Tag Gothorita that was released was male

    I suppose its defense isn't too bad. It gets reflect too right?
  7. Bigblue

    Bigblue

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    140
    Lol wut
  8. SpecsX

    SpecsX

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    370
    Oops! I mixed up Goth's defense and attack stats. 70/95/110 defenses are considerably better than 70/55/95.
  9. BattleStar

    BattleStar

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    637
    What I find makes Goth so viable in RU is the niche it has to set up on many key defensive Pokemon most notably Tangrowth. I mentioned this in another thread that Goth gets free set up due to him. She can set up as many Calm minds,substitutes, etc. This also is a fairly common event due to tango having high usage.

    One Pokemon I already use and I might see this set become more popular is Haze Cyrogonal. He is able I stop a fully set up Goth wih haze.Though one carrying Psyshock can make quick work of him after that.

    I do find Gothitelle having it self decrease in effectiveness because of its below average speed. Because I that reason that also in my mind the reason it is staying in RU...for now at least.
  10. RainbowCrash

    RainbowCrash

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    My opinion DO NOT BAN

    for now i dont feel it is broken its slow and not all that bulky.Its not like wobbuffet where it can get that encore in and then do shennanigans .Its just plain and simple not good enough it cant set uip and sweep and it can't sit there and stall out because of it adverage defences.What i have taken to running is kinda a way to make gothitelle like wobbuffet in a way.Wobbuffet was good at encore then you switch and set up so ive been running

    Gothitelle (F) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Taunt/Thunder Wave
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Psychic
  11. Ningildo

    Ningildo

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    759
    Since when is 75/95/110 defenses not bulky/average?

    Further more, it is slow, but a Specs set hits deceptively hard, and thanks to Shadow Tag, you're losing a pokemon guaranteed. And comparing Wobb to Goth is very, very wrong. While Wobbufet can kill a choice locked mon, Gothitelle can actually attack and kill something without relying on Countercoat with it's decent base 95 Special Attack. So while you can't buy a set up turn with Encore, you CAN remove a counter for a sweeper, which is far more devastating.

    Finally, this a discussion thread (for the metagame in general), not a suspect vote, so no shouts of picking ban/no ban. You can give reasons why you think it is so, but back up your statements. E.g., don't say it's bulk is bad, without ever giving an example of a weak attack OHKO/2HKOing.
    (Please don't tell me this counts as mini modding...)

    Back to topic, I haven't actually played the meta extensively, but I dislike the idea of having every single pokemon on my team being able to handle Gothitelle at any given time, lest losing all of them one by one. Stall sounds like pretty much unviable right now. Sure, Nidoqueen was hard to wear down with Stealth Rock alone, but Gothitelle can remove any team member at any time and thanks to it's nice bulk, it can tank a few hits. And you can bet the member being trapped and killed is probably the counter to the sweeper that wrecks you otherwise...damn, I just repeated the same thing. Oh well, I can always ladder with Volt-turn...
  12. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    8,335
    The metagame is full of fast attacker nows and in that sense, Gothitelle hasn't really been able to do much. It does pick off a few 4x Grass weak pokes here or there, but it's not very powerful without Specs.

    However the best usage is still to use Scarf and just fuck up Cryogonal with Psyshock and then Trick Scarf onto later. Otherwise it's not like the second coming of Chandelure here actually being able to pick off every single team member.

    Support sets are just whatever, I'd still rather use Uxie/Mesprit who can actually still do something else like SR and actually fulfill it's team slot.
  13. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent ium and me <3
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,071
    Gothitelle is incredibly threatening, because of the Choice sets. Specs is guranteed to remove tanks/walls, such as Rhydon, Ferroseed, Poliwrath, bulky Water-types, Escavalier, Nidoqueen (if Timid Specs), Roselia, Cryogonal, the list goes on. Initially I thought it wouldn't be broken, but I've changed my mind; I now think it is. You see, Gothitelle is so easy to use with VoltTurn support. VoltTurn means that Gothitelle can come in on any of these Pokemon for free and simply go for the OHKO. So what if the opponent packs a Pursuit user such as Spiritomb? If Gothitelle removes Poliwrath or Ferroseed, your DD Crawdaunt is gonna be unwallable, and can simply smash through the rest of your opponent's team. The tink I like most about RU is that before Gothitelle, EVERY playstyle was completely viable. Gothitelle can give bulkier teams absolute hell with a Choice Specs or SubCM set hell, or annihilate threatening offensive sweepers with a Scarf set. I'm telling you, I pack a CB Spiritomb on my team, and to be honest it makes not a blind bit of difference, when you consider that with VoltTurn support it can simply pick the Pokemon on my team that's most threatening and eliminate it, and then go to town with me. RU's not as much fun as it was before Gothitelle...
  14. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,145
    Gothitelle is broken. It's basically made offense the only viable playstyle, since it can get free kills on most walls in the metagame. It basically forces you to use a Pursuit user on every team, and even then it's often paired with something like Crawdaunt or Klinklang that gets a free setup on Pursuit. The Specs set is probably the best set, although the SubCM set is probably the most retarded. It's really retarded on either VoltTurn or Memento spam teams, since it can basically choose what it wants to set up on, and get 3 free kills because of it. It makes Ferroseed and Roselia practically unviable since they rely on Eviolite for their massive bulk, making them unable to run Shed Shell. Poliwrath lacks reliable recovery and doesn't want its only source of constant healing to be gone. Slowking and Cryogonal are stretched pretty thing as it is with the things that they wall; Slowking needs to take on both Moltres and Entei a lot of the time, and Nidoqueen gets past it a lot easier if it doesn't run Leftovers. Cryogonal also needs the Defense to take on Pursuit Spiritomb, and needs Special Defense to wall threats. Stall counts on spreading around residual damage. Gothitelle makes stall bad in this metagame because it can trap and kill every defensive Spiker in the metagame. It hurts stall way too much, basically making offense the only viable playstyle, since even balance suffers from it too. Gothitelle deserves to be banned.
  15. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,478
    I think that Gothitelle is going to change how people play a lot—if people start using it, that is >_>. However I think it will interesting to see how the tier will adapt. I expect some new sets to come about (there were a few with Nidoqueen!) and some new offensive teams that effectively utilize Gothitelle. While stall is definitely taking a HUGE hit from it, I'm not really sure if stall is completely eliminated yet, as it can use its own Gothitelle and double switch to that x). In my opinion, only time will tell if it's broken, so we'll see in which way Gothitelle affects the metagame in a few weeks!
  16. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,271
    Stall with Nidoqueen and Moltres is just hard in this currently metagame, in addition Gothitelle can kill almost any pokemon, Gothitelle only need kill 1 or 2 mons in your stall that means "GG" if your opponent is competent.

    In the worst instance Gothitelle can setupp in different mons in the stall team with SubCM set. This means again 6-0.

    If you are using full stall and your opponent use Gothi then you lost.
  17. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Messages:
    3,033
    Fortunately, full stall doesn't really exist in RU. And if you're using full stall, you should probably be more worried about Nidoqueen, Moltres, Kabutops, or any of the several other mons that have few counters and force you to rely on checks to beat than you are Goth.

    Goth really doesn't have the niche it does in UU of picking walls to take out to clear the way for your real offensive threats. In RU, those threats can just do it themselves.

    I'd be more worried about a possible niche of being a scarf revenge killer against most threats. I haven't seen it used like that, and I still need to try it out, but I think there's more potential there than using it to clear walls or sweep nonexistant stall teams. Though I'm hesitant to use any form of Goth with so many spiritomb all over the place. Makes for a pretty rough environment.
  18. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    8,335
    Kind of confused at what a "full stall team that gets 6-0'd by CMGoth" even looks like....A competent one at least anyways..
  19. Shinji Mimura

    Shinji Mimura

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    How do you all feel the ban on Gothitelle will affect RU?
  20. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,145
    it won't affect RU at all since no one really adapted to it in the first place. it's the same meta as before so everyone will just use their old teams

    it will give us a new np thread though
  21. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2010
    Messages:
    486
    I don't think the Suspect Round is over. To be fairly honest, almost nothing happened because it turned out that Gothitelle was broken in UU, thereby making it unusable in RU and NU due to being in BL.

    I get the feeling we should test new Pokes to see how they'd fare in RU. Isn't Absol arriving to the RU tier? Why would it be any good in the tier and metagame? There's still questions that need to be answered that haven't been answered, and less than a month awaits before major tier shifts occur anyway. Keeping a thread active for at least a month shouldn't be too hard.

    Also, Stoutland is coming down from UU soon. That will be grounds alone for a new "np Stage"
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)