Metagame np: Stage 2 - You Spin Me Round (Like a Shellfish)

[Orphic]

I don't think
a] Malamar will be that common, its still not that great.
b] Malamar being the reason stall takes a hit.

Stall took a hit because it's most brainless pokemon [besides Audino] just got sucked up to RU. It had an Aegislash-like defensive stranglehold on the tier, where its typing alone made dozens of things unusable/unviable. Stall also lost it's best spinblocker and priority user. There was seriously little to no reason not to throw this thing on your team, and now that it's gone, stall is having to adapt.
When it comes to stall teams facing new-found pressures, Malamar has something to do with this, but it's like 1% of the problem.

I've not seen malamar tbh, and I gave it a go myself it's still not that effective.
I have noticed a rise in the use of Kanga and other physical attackers of the like, mainly with the main physical attacker crippler now gone, despite it's ability scrappy, tomb could still bring any Kanga down a peg or two.

Anybody had more success with subplot Mismagius with it's biggest threat now gone? I think this powerful threat could make an impact on the new metagame since after a sub, it outspeeds and can destroy most of the tier with it's coverage, especially at +2.

 

[g]

Malamar sucks pls

Anyway after Spiritomb's departure i've tried different spinblockers and (bar the obvious Colbur Mismagius which is still cool) my favourite one is Rotom.
Rembering from BW RU that Rotom could (and still can if you avoid Knock Off) stop both Cryogonal and Kabutops from spinning via Trick for the former (which basically forces him to give a free setup if it wants to spin) and with Electric STAB for the latter (and if he predicts and kills you on the switch you should have something that outspeeds and takes it out on offense anyway like Lilligant, Sawk, Kanga).

For hazards setting my personal favourites after Omastar's departure are Garbodor (who can Explode on spinners/defoggers and has lots of bulk+aftermath to clutch revenge kill physical attackers/punish kanga), Qwilfish (Taunt for Defoggers, can threaten rhydon with Hydro Pump, Explosion, Dbond), and Crustle (who can set up Stealth Rock too and threatens Xatu).

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Mesprit @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Healing Wish

I know there are a lot of people who are addicted to this right now because it's really good (TCW, Raseri, Soulgazer I think) so might as well post this here to spread it. Scarf Mesprit doesn't outspeed any of the smashers unfortunately, but it does outrun the entire unboosted tier which is great. Mesprit has a ton of good physical moves to abuse with Scarf, and I don't think I need to explain what the moves do. Scarf Mesprit can afford to run Adamant because apart from random bs like Adamant Scarf Sawk, Mesprit doesn't get the speed jump on many notable things anyway with Jolly. This Pokemon fulfills the role of Scarf user, Healing Wish supporter, and momentum grabber all in one, plus it's got decent bulk. If you haven't tried it yet, go give it a shot before you regret not doing so earlier.

 

[soulgazer]

I told them to use it :), Choice Scarf Mesprit is a god.

Oh and here's somthing that Raseri told me to try:

Rampardos @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Earthquake

This Rampardos set is kinda niche, but to be honest I prefer this over the bad Archeops lead set that needs to be used less. Unlike Archeops, Rampardos CAN stop Crustle without risking being OHKOed by Rock Blast: Mold Breaker Stone Edge OHKO it through Sturdy. Unfortunately, some people run Focus Sash Weak Armor Crustle as they can't get over Omastar leaving the tier (you know who you are), but thank god only few people do that. Rampardos also doesn't care about Xatu as it can OHKO it with Stone Edge and set up Stealth Rock freely as Mold Breaker ignores Magic Bounce, which is quite nice. It also has Endeavor and a decent-ish base 58 Speed, letting Rampardos outspeed the majority of the walls and bulky Pokemon in the tier and weaken them with Endeavor and EdgeQuake coverage. Now you might think that not having Taunt makes it worst than Archeops, but to be honest its not even a big deal: Mismagius fits really well on the teams that would usually use this Rampardos set, so entry hazard control shouldnt be too much of an issue.

It's also a dinosaur so I don't really see a reason to not use it.

 

[glock in my toyota]

So I took a break for a while, as frankly, I thought this tier was getting very bad. But now, with Tomb gone, the reign of Spikestack is gone! While people have been saying Rain will be way too good, I actually haven't had too many problems playing it.

I told them to use it :), Choice Scarf Mesprit is a god.

Oh and here's somthing that Raseri told me to try:

Rampardos @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Earthquake

This Rampardos set is kinda niche, but to be honest I prefer this over the bad Archeops lead set that needs to be used less. Unlike Archeops, Rampardos CAN stop Crustle without risking being OHKOed by Rock Blast: Mold Breaker Stone Edge OHKO it through Sturdy. Unfortunately, some people run Focus Sash Weak Armor Crustle as they can't get over Omastar leaving the tier (you know who you are), but thank god only few people do that. Rampardos also doesn't care about Xatu as it can OHKO it with Stone Edge and set up Stealth Rock freely as Mold Breaker ignores Magic Bounce, which is quite nice. It also has Endeavor and a decent-ish base 58 Speed, letting Rampardos outspeed the majority of the walls and bulky Pokemon in the tier and weaken them with Endeavor and EdgeQuake coverage. Now you might think that not having Taunt makes it worst than Archeops, but to be honest its not even a big deal: Mismagius fits really well on the teams that would usually use this Rampardos set, so entry hazard control shouldnt be too much of an issue.

It's also a dinosaur so I don't really see a reason to not use it.

Can I just say..... use this. It is so fucking good as a lead hazard setter. Edgequake Coverage is godly as always, Endeavor is perfect, and SR is obviously great. Rampardos is such a good lead hazard setter right now, honestly.

One more thing: More people need to be using Superpower Feraligatr.

+1 252+ Atk Feraligatr Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 190-224 (65 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Whats a Ferroseed Anyway? Superpower Gatr is so fucking good right now, as at +1, the only thing that comfortably handles it is Tangela, which takes 40% from a +1 Ice Punch. Running Superpower on Gatr is the smartest possible thing you can do on it.

TL;DR: Rampardos and Superpower Gatr are super fucking good and you need to try them.

 

[Ares]

This thread needs some more discussion!

Honestly Superpower Feraligatr isn't to great, literally the only reason to run Superpower is for Ferroseed. Outside of that the attack drop and defense drop seriously hinder its sweeping capabilities. Ice punch and return provide better coverage on SD Gatr and should be the only two options. On DD aside from waterfall, there are better coverage options to run that won't hinder you as you are trying to sweep.

If you are having problems with Ferroseed stopping your Gatr sweep, volbeatdown then I recommend trying out trapper Probopass who can trap and 2hko Ferroseed with HP Fire. A set should look like this:

Probopass @ Air Balloon / Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

84 speed allows you to outrun base 50s and Air Balloon is for trapping Steelix and not getting KO'd by Earthquake. Air Balloon is a dead give away to trapper Probo so you can run Leftovers to bluff more of a defensive set. Good partner for Gatr, also checks Slurpuff and a good partner for Belly Drum Slurpuff. I recommend trying it out over Superpower Gatr.

 

[Brawlfest]

This thread needs some more discussion!

Honestly Superpower Feraligatr isn't to great, literally the only reason to run Superpower is for Ferroseed. Outside of that the attack drop and defense drop seriously hinder its sweeping capabilities. Ice punch and return provide better coverage on SD Gatr and should be the only two options. On DD aside from waterfall, there are better coverage options to run that won't hinder you as you are trying to sweep.

If you are having problems with Ferroseed stopping your Gatr sweep, volbeatdown then I recommend trying out trapper Probopass who can trap and 2hko Ferroseed with HP Fire. A set should look like this:

Probopass @ Air Balloon / Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

84 speed allows you to outrun base 50s and Air Balloon is for trapping Steelix and not getting KO'd by Earthquake. Air Balloon is a dead give away to trapper Probo so you can run Leftovers to bluff more of a defensive set. Good partner for Gatr, also checks Slurpuff and a good partner for Belly Drum Slurpuff. I recommend trying it out over Superpower Gatr.

If you don't have Taunt on Probo its not like you are stopping Ferroseed from doing its job anyways..

 

[Deej Dy]

Ferroseed doesn't only serve as a hazard setter brawl, it a great wall to gatr/ any other physical mons and forces many switches with leech seed and protect. So killing it after it sets up rocks or seeds probo for some hp is worth it. (having xatu is an even better counter though)

 

[Disjunction]

So I'd like to bring to attention the best answer to Mesprit that I've found in the tier so far

(mfw lead mesprit)
Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Heavy Slam/Gyro Ball
- Earthquake/Crunch
- Roar

Specially defensive steelix is able to combat just about any of mesprit's seemingly endless amount of sets. Obviously unable to prevent things like Trick, Healing Wish, and Stealth Rock, but is a perfect switch in to take any attack from the pixie.
Important calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Mesprit Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 104-123 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Mesprit Hidden Power Fire vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Steelix: 140-166 (39.7 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

12 Atk Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mesprit: 109-130 (36 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I prefer Heavy Slam over Gyro Ball any day, tbh, but I've seen Gyro a lot so I figured there must be some mon out there I'm not thinking of that it's worth running for so idk. Worst case scenario Mesprit tricks you a scarf on the switch in and you get it down to probably ~30% by spamming slam

 

[Punchshroom]

First off, your Steelix EVs are mismatched; the Mesprit calcs show it attacking a 252 HP Steelix, when your set only has 244 HP.

Secondly, while I won't deny that Steelix has a decent matchup against Mesprit, it's certainly not the best. That honor goes to (offensive) Probopass, which can handily take on any Mesprit bar bulky Calm Mind variants (most are offensive CM due to the existence of Uxie), but Toxic Probopass can easily handle that one. It isn't weak to any of Mesprit's common moves, while SpD Steelix gets 2HKOed by +1 LO Hidden Fire. Even Trick variants of Mesprit do not cripple Probopass too badly, as Probopass can get a power boost from a Tricked Choice Specs to overwhelm Mesprit (while Steelix is all but crippled by Trick Specs), while getting Tricked a Choice Band or Scarf isn't the end of the world for Probo if it can bait a Knock Off, which CB & Scarf Mesprit tend to run.

 

[Disjunction]

oops, yeah, just used default calc evs and changed em up for my own. I'll edit my post for the correct HP value even though it doesn't change the outcome of the calc at all.

More importantly, however, is that I don't see how Probo is any better than Steelix. I'll be honest, I shouldn't have made the claim that Steelix was the best, but I would wager to say that the two are on pretty equal ground. Probo loses to bulky (or even just offensive sub) cm Mesprit (252+ SpA Probopass Flash Cannon vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Mesprit: 64-76 (21.1 - 25.1%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO) while Steelix loses to offensive CM. Yeah, having a specs tricked on probo "helps" it in giving it a power boost, but so does tricking Steelix a band.

I'd say choosing between the two depends more on what your team needs instead of which is "better" to beat Mesprit because the two do relatively the same amount of work to it. While probo has more switch in opportunities throughout the match due to better special bulk, Steelix has an extra immunity and lacks the two x4 weaknesses.

tbh, I just wanted to bring up another general answer to mesprit because I want the tier to start shifting towards mesprit not being so scary.

 

[soulgazer]

Uxie @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 188 HP / 60 Def / 36 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Giga Drain
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

OK so I have not seen lots of SubCM Uxie lately and it honestly surprise me as it is Uxie's best set imo, and when I see it its some weird 0 spe Uxie or Versace Python Cased's RestTalk innovation (too bad they suck and used it on a team 6-0d by NP Liepard). So yeah thats why I decided to post about it.

SubCM Uxie needs to be fast. Really fast. Enough Speed for 90s (Adamant Zangoose and Kangaskhan) is good enough, but I prefer 224 Spe Timid to outspeed a potential Specs Rotom or to outspeed Rotom if it tricks me a Choice Scarf im dumb (really situational, but it doesn't really need the EVs lol). 188 HP gives Uxie a Leftovers number iirc, and when paired with 60 Def EVs Uxie's Substitutes will be able to survive an Audino's Knock Off. Rest goes in SpA to do a bit more with Psyshock and Giga Drain.

Speaking of Giga Drain, that is my favorite coverage on Uxie for multiple reasons; it gives Uxie a way to recover health, beat Steelix 1v1, and beat muh common Vileplume + Ground + Hariyama core along with Psyshock. Always nice when your opponent think its safe to keep their Seismitoad in to spam Knock Off on Uxie when u will just OHKO it after a boost or two and regain all that health. Dazzling Gleam isn't even needd anymore since Spiritomb left, and Uxie shouldn't try to beat Pawniard and Liepard by itself. Really underrated coverage for a set that needs more usage!

Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes

Garbodor is known to be so annoying to physical attackers and to always run defense investments, but a lot of people forget (including me before I heard about it) that Garbodor can go specially defensive to cover special attackers that would usually OHKO it or do more damage to it. Here's a calc to show the bulk:

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Garbodor in Rain: 269-317 (73.9 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

so yeah ever since Versace Python Cased pmed me about his innovation of the day being SpDef Garbodor, I didn't use a physically defensive one again.

Besides taking a Hydro Pump in rain from Ludicolo, it also allows Garbodor to check CM Slurpuff better and to set up entry hazards infront of special attackers more easily. To those who might think Garbodor wouldn't be able to handle physical attackers with a specially defensive spread, well keep in mind that with Rocky Helmet + Aftermath, few physical attackers will try to hit it with contact move anyway, and even with a physically defensive spread it will just be fodder for Zangoose / SD Feraligatr / Kangaskhan for massive amount of recoil. Works well with the good ol' Physically Defensive Seismitoad :)

 

[The Quasar]

Aleccat you were never funny so stop

Qwilfish @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance
- Poison Jab
- Destiny Bond / Explosion

Now that rain is becoming so common, I like using Qwilfish on rain because it's the fastest Swift Swimmer (barring Floatzel and Golduck?) in NU, or in other words, the fastest relevant one. This immediately gives me at least a decent matchup vs opposing rain especially with Qwilfish's good STABs to beat most common rain sweepers. As a bonus it absorbs Toxic Spikes which means I don't really have to run Rapid Spin on Kabutops, which gives a free move for Superpower / Knock Off / whatever. The last move is also real fun because it takes down troublesome stuff for teammates. Destiny Bond is less reliable but works on all opponents while Explosion deals reliable damage but doesn't always guarantee a KO. As for the nature, pretty much every rain sweeper runs Adamant or Modest so you can get away with running Adamant right now, but once the +Spe natures start picking up Qwilfish will have to make the switch too.

Sorry for delay, I was reading this thread just now. My little cent about Qwilfish. It being understood that it's possibile to evaluate how could be useful a Qwilfish SAtk 's set (its movepool includes Scald/Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball and Signal Beam) for 4th slot you can use HP Grass, useful when waterfall isn't boosted by rain.

0- SpA Life Orb Qwilfish Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kabutops: 172-203 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Punchshroom]

More importantly, however, is that I don't see how Probo is any better than Steelix. I'll be honest, I shouldn't have made the claim that Steelix was the best, but I would wager to say that the two are on pretty equal ground. Probo loses to bulky (or even just offensive sub) cm Mesprit (252+ SpA Probopass Flash Cannon vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Mesprit: 64-76 (21.1 - 25.1%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO) while Steelix loses to offensive CM.

This is more to do with the meta, but bulky CM / SubCM Mesprits aren't seen since Uxie generally does those better, so losing to the less common variants of Mesprit gives Probo a slightly better matchup than Steelix. Also, doesn't Steelix also lose to bulky CM Mesprit @ Hidden Power Fire?

Yeah, having a specs tricked on probo "helps" it in giving it a power boost, but so does tricking Steelix a band.

While Steelix does make use of a Tricked Choice Band, it's kinda fuked if Tricked a Specs since Specs Mesprit doesn't carry Knock Off, meaning it would be a less reliable response to Mesprit while Probopass can answer any Mesprit regardless of whatever Choice item it carries. Hell, Steelix flat out loses to Specs Mesprit anyway. Granted, the Mesprit users may have some Knock Off users that Steelix can switch in on so I could've mentioned that, but those Knock Offs tend to be stronger, or coming from Pokemon such as Sawk, Samurott, and Zangoose.

I'd say choosing between the two depends more on what your team needs instead of which is "better" to beat Mesprit because the two do relatively the same amount of work to it. While probo has more switch in opportunities throughout the match due to better special bulk, Steelix has an extra immunity and lacks the two x4 weaknesses. tbh, I just wanted to bring up another general answer to mesprit because I want the tier to start shifting towards mesprit not being so scary.

Well Steelix does make a good answer for (most) Mesprit, while Probo can answer almost all of them. Both have separate merits such as blocking Volt Switch and trapping Ferroseed respectively. I mean it's not like I disagree with you that Steelix isn't a good Mesprit answer that still function well in the tier; it's just that its matchup against Mesprit is slightly shakier than Probopass, since any HP Fire Mesprit can put Steelix on the backfoot, especially if it is hit on the switch with HP Fire, is all.

I will say that Steelix answers Uxie far better than Probopass, if that's what you were going with.

 

[ryan]

I've been using lots of SD Grass-types lately. I built tons of teams while I was away, and probably about half of them featured some kind of Grass-type with Swords Dance. Now more than ever, packing some kind of Grass-type is really important. They check Feraligatr and Kabutops, rain in general, and most importantly for me at least, they pack a Ground resist and can usually take on coverage moves from Ground-types. I swear to god, I'll be just about finished with a team, and I'll have like two or three Ground weaknesses with no resists. The specific SD Grass-types that I've been using have been Leafeon, Sawsbuck, and Jumpluff, but Serperior and Sceptile are also pretty good because of their sick Speed. Here are some sets:

Jumpluff @ No Item............Sawsbuck @ Life Orb........._Leafeon @ Lum Berry
Ability: Infiltrator.............._Ability: Sap Sipper............_Ability: Chlorophyll
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe.._252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe.._252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly nature......................_Jolly nature........................Jolly nature
- Sleep Powder...................- Horn Leech......................- Leaf Blade
- Acrobatics....................__- Swords Dance................_- Swords Dance
- Swords Dance..................- Return.......................___- Knock Off
- Seed Bomb...................._- Jump Kick....................__- Synthesis / Baton Pass

No Item Jumpluff is really fun. It's a slightly worse SD Jumpluff from last gen when we still had Flying Gem, but with the buff from Infiltrator allowing you to hit through Subs and kill stuff or put things to sleep behind Subs. This is especially cool for being able to hit things with a faster or priority Sub like Sceptile or Liepard without them using it to dodge your Sleep Powder.

Sawsbuck is generally inferior to Leafeon because of its weakness to Mach Punch, worse bulk, and lack of Knock Off, but Jump Kick for Ferroseed, Sap Sipper, and Normal STAB are all reasons to use it. It's also better at not being revenged by Scarf Rotom thanks to its Ghost immunity.

Leafeon is well known by now. Not much to say here. I've been using it tons because it's like the best offensive Feraligatr check there is.

Of course, non-SD Grass-types are also quite good, but these fit pretty well onto offensive teams. Highly recommend them.

 

[Cased]

Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes

Garbodor is known to be so annoying to physical attackers and to always run defense investments, but a lot of people forget (including me before I heard about it) that Garbodor can go specially defensive to cover special attackers that would usually OHKO it or do more damage to it. Here's a calc to show the bulk:

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Garbodor in Rain: 269-317 (73.9 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

so yeah ever since Versace Python Cased pmed me about his innovation of the day being SpDef Garbodor, I didn't use a physically defensive one again.

You're welcome you overrated piece of garbage

Anyways, for some actually good sets...

Mismagius (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 52 Def / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute / Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Taunt / Pain Split

Some pretty cool things about this set. Obviously it shuts down a lot of the support Pokemon in the tier, and I just think HO can be so unreliable in this tier due to Kabutops being able to threaten basically every spinblocker on the switch (Besides Gourgeist but Adamant LO Stone Edge still hurts), and the bulky Pokemon in the tier with good synergy are just a bit too much to handle sometimes (2-3 man cores, mainly Seismitoad or Rhydon/Garbodor or Roselia or Ferroseed) and Scarf Mesprit/Kangaskhan fit so easily on those teams it's crazy, so I think balanced/bulky offense really dominates the tier right now. And this set really thrives against a lot of the sets. EVs help outpace Base 95s with a +Nature, and the rest of the EVs allow for optimal bulk in HP and Defense, and a burnt Ferroseed Gyro Ball is unable to break a Substitute when burnt, (if you decide to use Substitute) and a burnt Audino is unable to break the Substitute as well, both moves do 20-24% which is a really awesome thing for Mismagius to abuse.

Hex is a really interesting move, clearly Mismagius isn't very strong since it has no Special Attack investment, and Hex is able to hit the Defensive Pokemon for a lot better damage than Shadow Ball (double damage when Burnt + Stab is a solid amount). Although I advise having decent switch-ins to Audino and stuff because when Wisped/Taunted and they have no other choice to go for Knock Off / Double-Edge, it sets up opportunity for a lot of Pokemon to take advantage of being able to come in on insanely weak attacks. Wisping AV Hariyama is fun as fuck too.

Welp here try it out you won't regret it ggGG

 

[Ares]

Gonna just post some sets about some Pokemon I've been using as of late to try and spark some discussion, some of them are underrated in the current meta and some of them are pretty meta.

First off is this pile of trash

Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD or 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Careful Nature or Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
So Garbodor is a fantastic spike stacker in the current meta as well as being a good check to physical attackers. It can come in multiple times on various things set up a layer of spikes and at the end of its life is a great way to take 35% off of a physical attacker due to Aftermath and Rocky Helmet. I've been trying Specially Defensive, as Soulgazer said it was much better than defensive, although you can run defensive to take physical attacks better. Gunk Shot is for STAB and for Slurpuff while Drain Punch is a nice way to get some health back.

Next is one of my favorite Pokemon in NU

Kangaskhan (F) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
Personally I like running a bulkier version of Kangaskhan that can take a couple of hits from faster threats, you can also run max speed if you gotta go fast. Kangaskhan is a fantastic Pokemon that can 2HKO a lot of the meta with STAB+ Silk Scarf + Double-Edge. It has amazing dual priority between Fake Out and Sucker Punch, and Earthquake is there to hit Steel- and Rock-types hard. Healing Wish Mesprit is a nice partner as it can fully heal Kangaskhan to deal more damage with Double-Edge, definitely try it out if you havent already.

Next is one of the best checks to Feraligatr and a fantastic wincon.

Sceptile @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Substitute
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse
Great check to Gatr, can come in and take next to nothing from an Aqua Jet and KO with a Giga Drain. Substitute is to avoid status and to get into Overgrow range, while Focus Blast is for Ferroseed and coverage. Dragon Pulse is a big FUCK YOU to Dragalage and is specifically on this set for that reason, it can become and easy 2HKO with either all hazards up or prior damage.


Thats it for right now, Post your comments on these Pokemon or talk about Pokemon you've been using as of late and how you think the meta has shifted recently.

 

[Deej Dy]

Monty, what is your reasoning behind Earthquake over Drain Punch when Kanga lacks recovery? Also Pain-split Garbodor is underrated, as it can come back from the dead and reek even more hazard havok.

 

[Ares]

Monty, what is your reasoning behind Earthquake over Drain Punch when Kanga lacks recovery? Also Pain-split Garbodor is underrated, as it can come back from the dead and reek even more hazard havok.

I just dont like how pitiful the damage is when running Drain Punch and the recovery is next to nothing unless its like a quad weak Probopass. I prefer doing more damage and then offering team support such as Healing Wish Mesprit or Wish support from Lickilicky. I will say that I like running Drain Punch on AV and in RU though.

Edit @ below: completely agree thats another reason to run EQ, Garbodor.

 

[ryan]

I just dont like how pitiful the damage is when running Drain Punch and the recovery is next to nothing unless its like a quad weak Probopass. I prefer doing more damage and then offering team support such as Healing Wish Mesprit or Wish support from Lickilicky. I will say that I like running Drain Punch on AV and in RU though.

I also like hitting Garbodor without taking Rocky Helmet, Double-Edge, and potentially Aftermath recoil. The choice between Drain Punch and Earthquake won't make a big difference in the majority of your matches, and it's really a matter of preference.

I'd probably not run Rocky Helmet on SpDef Garbodor though. 80/82/82 bulk isn't amazing; it's Garbodor's typing that really helps it wall things. Without investment, as an example, Hariyama does roughly 35% with Close Combat. Black Sludge seems like a better option to me, though I suppose getting that extra bit of damage off while sacrificing Garbodor can be nice.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

First rule of Garbodor:
You always sack it to your opponent's physical attackers

 

[Aladyyn]

Yea, Rocky Helmet makes SpDef Garbo a solid check to both Slurpuff variants - straight up walls CM and when BD ko's it it takes heavy damage, making it easily revengeable with priority.

 

[Pooch13]

Gonna just post some sets about some Pokemon I've been using as of late to try and spark some discussion, some of them are underrated in the current meta and some of them are pretty meta.

First off is this pile of trash

Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD or 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Careful Nature or Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
So Garbodor is a fantastic spike stacker in the current meta as well as being a good check to physical attackers. It can come in multiple times on various things set up a layer of spikes and at the end of its life is a great way to take 35% off of a physical attacker due to Aftermath and Rocky Helmet. I've been trying Specially Defensive, as Soulgazer said it was much better than defensive, although you can run defensive to take physical attacks better. Gunk Shot is for STAB and for Slurpuff while Drain Punch is a nice way to get some health back.

Next is one of my favorite Pokemon in NU

Kangaskhan (F) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
Personally I like running a bulkier version of Kangaskhan that can take a couple of hits from faster threats, you can also run max speed if you gotta go fast. Kangaskhan is a fantastic Pokemon that can 2HKO a lot of the meta with STAB+ Silk Scarf + Double-Edge. It has amazing dual priority between Fake Out and Sucker Punch, and Earthquake is there to hit Steel- and Rock-types hard. Healing Wish Mesprit is a nice partner as it can fully heal Kangaskhan to deal more damage with Double-Edge, definitely try it out if you havent already.

Next is one of the best checks to Feraligatr and a fantastic wincon.

Sceptile @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Substitute
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse
Great check to Gatr, can come in and take next to nothing from an Aqua Jet and KO with a Giga Drain. Substitute is to avoid status and to get into Overgrow range, while Focus Blast is for Ferroseed and coverage. Dragon Pulse is a big FUCK YOU to Dragalage and is specifically on this set for that reason, it can become and easy 2HKO with either all hazards up or prior damage.


Thats it for right now, Post your comments on these Pokemon or talk about Pokemon you've been using as of late and how you think the meta has shifted recently.

Isnthp fire better for AND other Grass/ steel types on Scpet? I dont like the shady accuracy on FB either but i was just wondering.
And shouldnt garbo run sime speed EVs to outspeed some key mons? :)

And nice kanga set, healing wish mesprit is a solid partner as you said.

 

[Ares]

Isnthp fire better for AND other Grass/ steel types on Scpet? I dont like the shady accuracy on FB either but i was just wondering.
And shouldnt garbo run sime speed EVs to outspeed some key mons? :)

And nice kanga set, healing wish mesprit is a solid partner as you said.

HP fire is redundant with Focus Blast on Sceptile, the HP of choice should be HP Ice, but I prefer Dragon Pulse lol. As far as speed goes you can run some, but I just prefer max max.

 

[bb skarm]

So anyways, I've been playing around with not a niche set, but more or less a niche Pokemon in its entirety:

Yanma @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- Giga Drain

I know it's very hard to justify any use for a D rank Pokemon in the lowest of all tiers (especially when it dies to fucking tackle, 4x weak to rocks, and isn't that strong), but honestly, I've actually had some success playing with this set. It is the only Pokemon with offensive presence and Speed Boost in NU, and it is probably one of my favorite usable cleaners in the entire tier. My common, and best said only, playstyle is hazard stacking, and this set is just amazing at doing that. After a bunch of rounds of hazard damage and general weakening of the opponents, I like to use this little bug late-game to clean up. After a Speed Boost, Yanma is actually really fast (like omg) and with maximum Special Attack investment with a LO, it packs just enough power to get rid of weakened opponents. Giga Drain + Bug Buzz + Air Slash can great coverage, beating common things like Seismitoad and Mesprit. I've personally used this set to revenge kill and just clean. It seems underwhelming, but try it, because it actually is somewhat effective.