np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head

[M BLADE]

Okay.
Venusaur switches in on Slowbro's Toxic.
Venusaur uses Swords Dance. You switch to Entei. Entei is now at 81% health.
Venusaur does 76.7% - 90.5%. Entei dies most of the time. If it doesn't die, it uses Lava Plume and does 52.5% - 62.5%. Venusaur easily survives, kills you, and has enough health left to attack two more times, unless you burn it, in which case it just kills you.

So yeah, you have small chance of actually doing anything, and an even smaller chance of doing something useful. Not what I would call a "counter".

Compare this to, say, Arcanine, who does 108.3% - 128.2% with 0 ATK Flare Blitz, has Intimidate (so boosted Earthquake from Venusaur does "only" 67.7% - 79.7%), and has instant recovery in morning sun.

tl;dr don't use defensive Entei

Edit: And I don't want to seem like I'm against "gimmicks", since most of my teams involve novel and less-than-standard Pokemon/sets. But there's no point in using a Pokemon for something it sucks at or in something which another Pokemon does much better.

You need balls to stay on Entei.
Physical Arcanine and CM Entei are entirely different pokemons. Sorry, but i just don't know what you're saying.

And, first: use it before you call something gimmick.

 

[shrang]

That Bibarel is rightfully owned by Venusaur and outsped by Milotic, which means it will be able to Toxic you before you use Taunt and, from there, your opponent can just go to a bulky Ghost. Speaking of Ghosts, any of them easily stop that, except for Froslass.

I can change that so Bibarel can outspeed minimum speed Milotic by giving it 84 Speed EVs. Yes, Bibarel will lose to Venusaur and Ghosts, but pretty much wrecks everything else on a Stall team.

EDIT: @ Delko, oops, I stuffed up. The analysis says Careful. But I guess you can run Impish. So I guess a new EV spread could be 252 HP/160 Def/12 SpD/84 Spe, with a Careful nature.

 

[Bluewind]

Just like any other taunter.

 

[M BLADE]

The difference being that Bibarel isn't too shabby against offensive teams (and it certainly holds it's own very well against Baton Pass teams that already started passing something).

 

[Bluewind]

What can Bibarel do against offensive? In a metagame in which the most common teams are Miloitc/Venusaur/Moltres/Froslass/Registeel/Donphan I see it doing no more than staying there as fodder and then dying.

 

[M BLADE]

What can Bibarel do against offensive? In a metagame in which the most common teams are Miloitc/Venusaur/Moltres/Froslass/Registeel/Donphan I see it doing no more than staying there as fodder and then dying.

Unaware cancels all those set ups that offensive teams like to use.
Same to BP teams.

Ok, it still dies too easily and can't accomplish much: at least it can stop a troublesome poke as long as it isn't Raikou or Venusaur or something like that.

 

[franky]

You don't need one Pokemon to "beat" stall, it simply doesn't work like that. No one can single-handedly break stall by itself - not even Gallade can do this. What you need to do is limit the amount of set up opportunities for stall, after all, entry hazards makes stall so successful. With that being said, think of something that can effectively deal with Spike users at the start of the match; Hariyama, Venusaur, and Moltres and excellent candidates for this. Double-switching also works well with stall. Overall, you probably want to apply as much offensive pressure as possible. For balanced teams, its a bit more difficult but try to pack an offensive Pokemon that can threaten stall as a whole, but not beat it single-handedly.

 

[capefeather]

You don't need one Pokemon to "beat" stall, it simply doesn't work like that.

Why does this discussion sound so much like the Rain discussion?

Anyway, I do agree with franky. I was going to say more but I realized that franky said everything already.

 

[M BLADE]

Damn, are all Alakazams choiced?

If yes... well, i just have one of the best combos ever to dispose of ghosts/Alakazam: Primeape and Skuntank.
Primeape is a fighting type, so ghosts are probably going to switch in. Go to Skuntank. Adios ghosts.
It you catch a ghost switch in with U-Turn, even better. Skuntank appreciates the less damage it takes.
So you have one revenge killer that attracts lots of ghosts for Skuntank to dispose of. Cool.

It doesn't attract Alakazam, but Alakazam often tries to revenge Primeape... just for Skuntank to switch in and...

I used the combo on Cresselia /P-Z era... but i'm glad it still works wonders.

 

[Shy Glizzy]

Speaking of gimmicks, has anyone used Gabite.Choiced is usually its best set. A scarfed or banded dragon move is great late game.

 

[Heysup]

You don't need one Pokemon to "beat" stall, it simply doesn't work like that. No one can single-handedly break stall by itself - not even Gallade can do this. What you need to do is limit the amount of set up opportunities for stall, after all, entry hazards makes stall so successful. With that being said, think of something that can effectively deal with Spike users at the start of the match; Hariyama, Venusaur, and Moltres and excellent candidates for this. Double-switching also works well with stall. Overall, you probably want to apply as much offensive pressure as possible. For balanced teams, its a bit more difficult but try to pack an offensive Pokemon that can threaten stall as a whole, but not beat it single-handedly.

I find that it actually does work like this, but it isn't as simple as it would seem.

I remember in the earlier rounds, every time I brought in Blaziken it would have the possibility of taking out one of the opponent's stall Pokemon one by one. I would have to play Blaziken carefully, but that's how I would beat stall.

Lately, I have used Absol to beat stall, and as I'm sure stall players can tell you, Absol is ridiculously hard to stop for stall. I can just switch it in on something and literally spam Superpower. Hitmontop is a good check but it drops quickly with Spikes and SR.

Now I just use Raikou to beat everything to a pulp and call it a day :D

 

[Stagnant]

Choice Band Gabite isn't a gimmick. The combination of Outrage + EQ, even off a mediocre attack stat gimps everything. I always lead off with Outrage because at worst Registeel/ Steelix switches in... otherwise everything else is 1-2hko'd. Outspeeding Base 82 and lower as well as tying with Magmortar is just icing on the cake.

 

[Shy Glizzy]

I always love it when altaria comes in only to get outspeeded by one base point and hit with a CB Dragon Claw.

 

[PK Gaming]

I always love it when altaria comes in only to get outspeeded by one base point and hit with a CB Dragon Claw.

Why the hell would they switch in Altaria on Gabite?!?

 

[Shy Glizzy]

Back when I used him I bluffed a CB with Expert belt.

 

[Bluewind]

I find that it actually does work like this, but it isn't as simple as it would seem.

I remember in the earlier rounds, every time I brought in Blaziken it would have the possibility of taking out one of the opponent's stall Pokemon one by one. I would have to play Blaziken carefully, but that's how I would beat stall.

Lately, I have used Absol to beat stall, and as I'm sure stall players can tell you, Absol is ridiculously hard to stop for stall. I can just switch it in on something and literally spam Superpower. Hitmontop is a good check but it drops quickly with Spikes and SR.

Now I just use Raikou to beat everything to a pulp and call it a day :D

I acutally never saw neither of them as problems when I ran stall to be honest (even though I'm not what you could call a profilic stall user); and had much more troubles with SD Ken and NP Doom (Flinch sucks) than with MixKen or Absol, especially considering I can just Foresight spin on its face and use Rest+Aroma to keep myself healthy; while Absol itself would die very fast due to my own hazards. I myself ran a dual Ghost core though and had a perfect counter for Absol, so this is an example of a situation in which certain pokés work against certan stall teams and not against others, like Hariyama (Guts activated), Toxicroack, SD Venusaur and such.

 

[IronBullet]

NP Houndoom rapes stall indeed. But the biggest dilemma I face is what to use in the last slot. Sucker Punch for Duggy, Beat Up for Chansey, or HP Grass for Bulky Waters?

 

[Bluewind]

Beat Up Passho Doom >:D

 

[IronBullet]

Very interesting:P Loss in power matter much?

 

[Ekanselttar]

I go with Sucker Punch. You can NP up and 2shot Chansey eventually, and dent bulky waters on the switch-in with Dark Pulse. Sucker Punch is nice security against Duggy and Swellow, provided they don't be sneaky and use their own priority moves. Also, priority moves are just nice.

 

[Bluewind]

I'm not really sure to be honest, as I never tried; but it actually sounds good even though it's clearly a gimmick, and not only against stall. Pairing that kind of Houndoom with something like Moltres or Feraligatr, that benefits from the removal of bulky waters could be really boss. Regarding the damage dealt, I think a +4 Pulse KOes Milotic, but gotta confirm.

 

[Conflict]

NP Houndoom rapes stall indeed. But the biggest dilemma I face is what to use in the last slot. Sucker Punch for Duggy, Beat Up for Chansey, or HP Grass for Bulky Waters?

Dont use {Grass} ever! It does only slightly more damage against Bulky Waters then Dark Pulse and wont grant you many more ohkos after an NP.
After an NP you also still 2hko Chansey when it cant do much back if it doesnt run T-Wave. So i recommend to use Sucker Punch to kill this nasty Pokes, who wants to revenge you.

@Bluewind: Passho Berry sounds indeed nice - equivalent to PasshoNape in OU.

 

[yond]

Has anyone ever tried Swords Dance Zangoose? I have been using it for the past few days and I have to say its cash. The only things that really put a stop to it are Scarf Rotom ,Offensive Migmagius with HP Fight and a well played( full health)hitmontop.
Its really not a pain to counter these pokes either.
With Spikes and SR support Slowbro and Milotic don't give Zangoose much trouble same for Donphan.

 

[PK Gaming]

Has anyone ever tried Swords Dance Zangoose? I have been using it for the past few days and I have to say its cash. The only things that really put a stop to it are Scarf Rotom ,Offensive Migmagius with HP Fight and a well played( full health)hitmontop.
Its really not a pain to counter these pokes either.
With Spikes and SR support Slowbro and Milotic don't give Zangoose much trouble same for Donphan.

Meh, why would I use that over any other swords dancer in UU? Leafeon, Sceptile and Venusaur seem much more appealing. (Has used Zangoose in NU before and was dissapointed)

 

[FlareBlitz]

I would personally use Sub on NP doom, but I just love putting Sub on everything so don't mind me~