np: XY UU Stage 2 - Light Em Up

[pokemonisfun]

Hey can someone tell me exactly what Volcarona sets are being run now anyways?

Personally I see bulky versions of Volcarona (well all versions really) as just another reason to use 252 Def 252 SpD Calm Blissey now instead of 252 HP 252 Def Bold. Equipped with Toxic this Blissey for me has always been so much better on defensive teams where Blissey without SpD investment can sometimes get stomped on by NP Houndoom and NP PZ and Seed Flare Shaymin and Focus Energy Kingdra with pure special moves. But with this spread Blissey stands a much better chance at being a reliable counter to them and can even try and stall a CM Chandelure occasionally (very very hard to do but nearly completely impossible to do if you don't run SpD). Chesto Berry Volcarona might possibly still be able to beat you but you can force it to go to sleep for two turns because Chesto Berry is single use and the only way Volcarona can win is by PP stalling with Rest. Hopefully you can smack it with a Rock move or phaze in those two turns. Also I have noticed quite a few people run Wish/Heal Bell/Protect/Seismic Toss on Blissey but I think Granbull is becoming slightly more popular and significantly more popular with strong players. Since Granbull learns Heal Bell and can form the beginnings of a core with Blissey very well it sort of makes it easier to let Blissey run Toxic (or Thunder Wave which is very good in many situations).

This is somewhat less concrete evidence but I remember reading on these forums a year or two ago someone posting about the power levels of Adv Ubers and DPPT OU. They said something along the lines of "People used 252 Def 252 SpD Calm Blissey in Adv Ubers which had comparable or even weaker special attackers to DPPT OU. So they should be using 252 Def 252 SpD Calm Blissey in DPPT OU as well." If I remember correctly both spreads were used in DPPT OU but the Bold spread was significantly more popular, even on stall. Well I think now XY UU has a special attack power even stronger than both DPPT OU and Adv Ubers (and physical attack too so there is little argument in saying physical defense didn't matter as much in Adv Ubers or something similar).

To me this suggests the Calm Blissey spread is better for nearly all defensive teams and on some other teams where Blissey is needed.

 

[Patrick1088]

hilarious ive been running bulky moth timid plus enough evs to outspeed timid nidoking, 248 hp evs (sr number) and the rest into defense. It can come in on nidoking sludge waveboost and roost andvstart to sweep. I like fiery dance and bb, but you can opt for sub to block toxic and status.

 

[Psychotic]

I just hope Volc doesn't get banned so that there can be a setup sweeper that Hydreigon can't revenge kill .-.

 

[Hot N Cold]

I dont agree with that pif, max SpD Blissey is rarely/never better than using 252 Def Blissey because already have enough Specially Defensive bulk if you plays correctly is kinda an inefficient spread against special things anyways, also the difference between using 0 bulk in defense and maximizing their physical side is huge; you definitely cant compare a tier like UU with Ubers Old gen tiers where you need the max SpD Blissey to avoid 2/3HKO from special powerhouses like Choice Specs Kyogre and be able to beat CM mons.
If you decides using no physical Evs or nature (or both, depends on what level) means that you will lose now against Psyshock, Dugtrio, Pursuit trap, mixed mons as Hydreigon, any physical mon is gonna pressure you a lot which otherwise you should be able to stall them etc

 

[pokemonisfun]

I dont agree with that pif, max SpD Blissey is rarely/never better than using 252 Def Blissey because already have enough Specially Defensive bulk if you plays correctly is kinda an inefficient spread against special things anyways, also the difference between using 0 bulk in defense and maximizing their physical side is huge; you definitely cant compare a tier like UU with Ubers Old gen tiers where you need the max SpD Blissey to avoid 2/3HKO from special powerhouses like Choice Specs Kyogre and be able to beat CM mons.
If you decides using no physical Evs or nature (or both, depends on what level) means that you will lose now against Psyshock, Dugtrio, Pursuit trap, mixed mons as Hydreigon, any physical mon is gonna pressure you a lot which otherwise you should be able to stall them etc

I don't think you understood my post. I never said nor ever will say use 0 def Blissey I said use 252 def 252 spd calm. Even calm Blissey is destroyed by specs ogre by the way and that was ubers gen4. My point still stands besides the obvious and huge exception of ogre (well not really since specs ogre was not a thing in gen3): the attackers now in xy uu are stronger than in adv ubers.

 

[Hot N Cold]

You cant compare completely different metas like XY UU with ADV Ubers lmao For example, Dugtrio is one of the mons most metagame definining in Advance and on this gen is barely RU, everything has changed~

252 SpD + Calm is still bad, a bit better than using 0 defense but still inefficient on this tier.

 

[pokemonisfun]

You cant compare completely different metas like XY UU with ADV Ubers lmao For example, Dugtrio is one of the mons most metagame definining in Advance and on this gen is barely RU, everything has changed~

252 SpD + Calm is still bad, a bit better than using 0 defense but still inefficient on this tier.

Yes you can compare.

Pokemon is a pretty fun game and the tiers we play in use a combination of calculation and principle. Principle is something like although you cannot fully understand the benefits it will bring you you know that Stealth Rock is a fantastic move and you strive to set it up as early as you can to make sure it does the most damage. Calculation is something like you only have a Lucario in on a Blissey and their next Pokemon is a Scarf Heracross so you see one move ahead: if you kill the Blissey you lose the next turn to Scarf Heracross but if you Swords Dance now you can kill the Heracross and Blissey and win.

The comparison I made is a very principled one while I did give more solid concrete evidence to back up my Blissey spread.

Let me first tell you I'm only slightly moved by your own concrete evidence.

+1 252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 349-412 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Dugtrio will have an extremely hard time winning against Blissey still especially if she just uses Wish and Protect. Critical hit mechanics do not favor Dugtrio.

252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 317-374 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 347-409 (53.3 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Psyshock is important to a certain extent but I would argue that Psyshock is now standard on Alakazam and Blissey shouldn't even be considered a main switch in regardless now anyways. Also Focus Sash Alakazam which is quite common, possibly even more common, cannot 2HKO still. Protect and Leftovers and Stealth Rock and critical hits by the way mean these guarantees are far from guarantees anyways.

I actually do not know much about Pursuit in the tier at the moment but I assume they are going to be used only to either kill a Blissey for sure (in which case it might not matter as much what spread you use because you are expected to be on low health anyways) or to weaken the Blissey badly in which case since as you're switching out you have no chance for recovery you will be weakened badly regardless what spread you use.

0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 463-546 (71.1 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 424-499 (59.3 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 283-335 (39.6 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yeah it is a big difference in terms of percentage dealt to Blissey but regardless what set you run SR+Draco Meteor+Superpower is likely going to KO you.

If you want to argue this point more, please at least respond to the Pokemon I pointed to that Calm Blissey spread is better than Bold Blissey spread at beating. I also did not Calm Blissey was mainly for stall and otherwise as good as Bold Blissey so I'm not suggesting for the average team one is automatically superior.

As for the tier comparison this is what I mean when I say principled. The special attackers in XY UU right now are by many measures stronger than the attackers in ADV Ubers. We have Nasty Plot, Choice Specs, Life Orb, Psyshock, Chandelure, etc etc. If we can agree to that let me make my next point please, which is that, and I haven't said this until now so feel free to disagree, that the special defenders in XY UU are not significantly stronger than the defenders in ADV Ubers. Just in principle this means defenders are going to have to be more creative or at least innovative. The Calm Blissey spread isn't innovative by any reasonable means but it is at least following the principle that defenders need to adapt to a ridiculously powerful metagame that our council has irresponsibly let run rampant in this now pathetic excuse for a metagame.

 

[Patrick1088]

hilarious so your calcs showed that 252/252+ blissey takes physical hits better than 0/252. Can you show a special attacker lacking psyshock where 252+ calm is better?

252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 173-204 (26.5 - 31.2%) -- 13.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 227-269 (31.7 - 37.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

If you go by numbers alone, your spread takes 5-6% less damage from a LO hydreigon draco meteor, but takes almost 14-15% more from superpower. Is that 6% really worth it? Its going to survive draco meteor regardless, so from a principle standpoint, why would ypu let blissey take an extra unnecessary 15% damage?

 

[kokoloko]

you should probably run 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD Bold. The defense points gained from the +def nature are fucking huge, and the SpD gained from the investment over HP is a bit more significant than the Def gained by investing in HP.

Alternatively, use good pokemon.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

you should probably run 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD Bold. The defense points gained from the +def nature are fucking huge, and the SpD gained from the investment over HP is a bit more significant than the Def gained by investing in HP.

Alternatively, use good pokemon.

I've been thinking about what the best spread would be too, but honestly investing in HP still seems the best to me because it improves your bulk overall. It's true that you take special hits better with max SpDef, but the difference is trivial between max HP and max SpDef and with max HP you also improve your physical bulk even more.

252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 612-720 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 612-720 (94 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 262-309 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 217-256 (33.3 - 39.3%) -- 15.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

The first calc shows a more significant improvement in bulk, the special bulk improvement is pretty much trivial (that's a pretty powerful hit).

 

[effyouzion]

I've been thinking about what the best spread would be too, but honestly investing in HP still seems the best to me because it improves your bulk overall. It's true that you take special hits better with max SpDef, but the difference is trivial between max HP and max SpDef and with max HP you also improve your physical bulk even more.

252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 612-720 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 612-720 (94 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 262-309 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 217-256 (33.3 - 39.3%) -- 15.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

The first calc shows a more significant improvement in bulk, the special bulk improvement is pretty much trivial (that's a pretty powerful hit).

You guys are looking at percentages the wrong way. 0/252+/252 has the best overall bulk

In your Infernape example, the difference between the max HP and 0 HP is 8.3% of Blissey's max HP. Since the first hit was 85.7% of Blissey's health, that's about a 9.76% difference in damage taken (8.3 / 85.7 = 9.76)

In the Hydreigon example, the difference between the max HP and the max SpD is 3.3% of Blissey's max HP. Since the first hit was 33.3% of Blissey's health, that's a 9.91% difference in damage taken (3.3 / 33.3 = 9.91)

The difference is small, but investing in defenses over HP definitely gives you the best overall bulk. The reason to invest in max HP would be because you want to stay in on psyshock users or take on u-turns/Dugtrio more easily.

I'd say almost all Blisseys would be better off with 252/252+/0 spread, but that doesn't mean it gives you the best overall bulk.

 

[radianthero156]

i was one of the people who voted volcarona as potentially broken, but honestly i'll vote it UU now. it has a load of checks, counters if it does not run specific moves and even has hard counters.

firstly, i'd like to discuss its sets. there is physically defensive with leftovers and qd, roost, bug buzz, fiery dance/substitute/WoW. that is a very good set that can setup much more easily than the others, but lacks a lot of power. the other best set is full spe/spa+ w/ life orb and qd, bug buzz, fire blast, hp water/hp rock, which is imo the best set atm; it requires far more support than the first one and gets much less free turns to setup, but it is A LOT stronger (it's stronger at +1 than bulky qd at +3), and has coverage to beat stuff like aero/cm chandy, that the bulky one lacks; hurricane and giga drain are outclassed by other coverage moves, but can be used as well. the other used set is chesto rest, which sucks, as in it cant beat anything that the other sets dont already beat. if there is another set im not aware of, feel free to show me it.

as for counters, it'll NEVER beat a well played blissey (nor snorlax for that matter, but blissey is more common), no matter what set. offensive qd needs +2 (or even +3 if it's spdef blissey) to 2HKO it, and blissey can easily stall it out or twave it. bulky qd is even easier to stall, unless it packs sub, in which case blissey only needs to predict the roost and status it. chesto rest wont beat it either as it will be forced to rest more than once; on the second rest, you kill/phaze it with another mon. the other hard counter for defensive teams is snorlax, though you can use goodra (but it needs rock slide or dragon tail). lastly, when diancie finally drop, it'll be an excellent counter as well.

for offensive checks, there are entei/arcanine, infernape with cb or at least stone edge, scarf mienshao with stone edge, cm chandelure, fletchinder, mega aerodactyl noivern... a lot of stuff. you can argue that those will get wrecked by a +1 hp rock/water, but thats why they're counters, not checks. and as i said, it's hard to setup offensive volc; and even then, any setup sweeper is hard to stop if they get boosts, you can say the same about lucario, ape, haxorus, p-z, etc.

edit @ below: yeah, it gets 2HKOed, but diamond storm is a clean OHKO in return. and that is if volcarona runs hp water instead of rock, i don't even think giga drain should be used on offensive volca (or in any volca for that matter)

 

[Schpoonman]

Diancie will be an excellent check, as you're 2HKO'd no matter what by +1 252 LO Giga Drain. Hidden Power Water (shoutouts to Our Benevolent Dictator) also gets the 2HKO with Rocks or prior damage. Of course, these are both at +1 with a Life Orb. It stands to reason that Diancie completely shuts down any Volcarona without these moves and most Volcarona that aren't heavily offensive.

 

[KM]

i really don't think we can assume diancie will stay in UU at this point, that's pretty heavy theorymon.

In general, I think analyzing Volcarona's brokenness based only on its ability to be a Boosting Sweeper is like analyzing Hydreigon's viability based on its damage output. The reason Volcarona is so fucking annoying isn't because it's uncounterable, or because it can sweep teams, it's because it has insane defensive and supportive capabilities as well. It's not a frail set-up sweeper like Lucario, ape, haxorus, p-z, etc, and it really shouldn't be compared to those. None of those mons have an ability that heavily discourages u-turns / punishes misprediction from mons like Mienshao / Moxiecross / Mew / Forretress / Umbreon / Lucario / Jirachi etc. None of these mons have as good of defensive typing for a Sweeper (resistance to Fighting / Steel / Bug / Grass), and none of them can very viably run a bulky Leftovers set. None of these mons can viably run Recovery moves (if someone tries to compare slack off ape with roost volcarona i will smack them in the goblet).

It's not fair to only focus on Volc's strength as a set-up sweeper - because if it were just another frail set-up sweeper with a useless ability, it really wouldn't be broken. It has plenty of checks and counters on all types of teams (even though it can technically run shitty coverage to get past them), just like Hydreigon has plenty of checks and counters on all types of teams. However, the fact that it can switch into and sponge hits from so many Pokemon while passively spreading dangerous status AND still retain the ability to be one of the most effective set-up sweepers in the tier propels it past the realm of "good" and far into the realm of broken.

 

[radianthero156]

unless diancie gets an absolutely overpowered mega evo, it will most definitely drop. (i'd argue it's currently NU material with its shitass movepool)

and imo you're overrating both volcarona's bulk (volcarona's physical bulk is lower than p-z's) and typing. while fight/bug/grass/steel resistances are nice, being OHKOed by random stone edges, losing half of its health switching into sr, and being weak to flying/water in general is really annoying for volc. and i'll mention sr again because switching volca is basically impossible if you have sr on your side.

you also mentioned that it punishes mispredictions from the likes of hera/mienshao, but i think this is actually better for the meta. mienshao currently has no regrets about spamming ridiculously op hjks (barring random misses), unless if they have a strong resist... in that case it'll just u-turn out unpunished. additionally, cb hera is another ridiculously powerful monster that 2HKOes stuff like florges, then just switches unpunished as well. the threat of being swept counter-balances these threats and i think this is good.

 

[RowDog]

Being weak to Flying is not that big of a deal in UU, given that like the only main users of Flying type moves is M-Aero, Crobat and the rare Fletch and Torn-I. And the Water-types in the tier are generally uninvested in their attacking power. I even posted a calc above on how Volc can setup on Slowbro if it has recovery:
4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 114-134 (36.5 - 42.9%) -- 97.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And that is no bulk investment on Volc. The fact is that it is our bulkiest setup sweeper in the tier at the moment, and adds quite a lot to its abilities in the tier. It can quite easily find 1 boost, and more easily than any other sweeper in the tier get to +2 imo.

 

[KM]

also you have to remember that quiver dance is not your normal old sd / np whatever other set up move, as a move it's extremely bork by itself. A special dragon dance is bad enough (there's a reason there's only one viable dd user in the tier), but the addition of bulk makes it possible to invest in hp / def and be both physically bulky, specially bulky, strong, and fast. i really can't agree with the comparisons to other setup sweepers still.

 

[Meru]

Bulky QDrona beats Snorlax... just saying

+2 0 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 169-201 (32.2 - 38.3%) -- 1.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Good luck avoiding Flame Body hax while also boosting up alongside something that is fast enough to 3HKO you long before you 3HKO it while also having the luxury of instant recovery.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Turn 1

Snorlax comes in.
Volcarona setups

Turn 2

Volcarona setups
Snorlax setups

Turn 3

Volcarona setups
Snorlax setups and can now 2hko it
Volcarona attacks and fails to 2hko ,,,

Please tell me how is volcarona beating snorlax.

 

[Patrick1088]

Kitten Milk is it really fair to focus on the 30% chance that flame body gives? Its frustrating when it does happen for the opponent, but its not reliable enough as say wonder skin from venomoth which lowered the accuracy of moves to 50%. The only real u turn users affected by flame body are shao and flygon. Infernape , tini and darm are immune to burn and can pretty easily ko moth.

If it has checks and counters (none of which are obscure or demolished by a coverage move), but its typing gives it resists to fighting steel and fairy, while giving it a weakness to SR, rock, flying and water. If we didnt have solid revenge killers or counters, id say volc is pretty broken. Im leaning more towards hes a top tier threat rather than broken.

 

[KM]

SmashBrosBrawl, here's how Volcarona beats Snorlax.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-149822730

(tl;dr, +1 snorlax doesn't 2HKO. Even +2 you can roost and fish for burn hax. it's by no means a solid counter at all)

Re: Patrick1088 , there are actually quite a lot of u-turn users affected by Flame Body. Other than Shao and Flygon, Mew, Jirachi, Crobat, Hydreigon, Tornadus, Ambipom, Gligar, and Zoroark also can all be heavily punished for clicking a move that is only punishable otherwise with Rocky Helmet. It's not always a good idea to switch Volca in on these pokes, but that doesn't mean it can't be used to punish U-turn. Also, U-turn obviously isn't the only move it can be switched in on.

Also, its checks and counters are almost all demolished by a coverage move, so I don't know exactly why you said that.

+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 192-228 (47.5 - 56.4%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (scald does like 30%)
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chandelure: 240-284 (91.9 - 108.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 247-292 (72.4 - 85.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine: 266-314 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 362-428 (86.1 - 101.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 608-716 (150.4 - 177.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 232 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 480-567 (110.5 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(I'm probably missing some, but you get the point.) The only things that really counter all Volcarona sets are like, Blissey, Rock Slide Goodra, and Qwilfish.

And once again, yes, he has solid revenge killers. This is especially true for the slower Bulkyrona set - it's Revenge Killed by stuff like Scarf Ape, Scarf Hera, Scarf Mien, BandTini... However, given the relative ease of clearing hazards and Volcarona's respectable bulk (both inherent and boosted), it has many chances to come in. It's not like any other one-time-only set-up sweeper, and you really can't choose to isolate it from its team and pretend like bringing in Mienshao after Volcarona's just killed something important and clicking Stone Edge is somehow guaranteed to eliminate it once and for all.

 

[Patrick1088]

Kitten Milk i think those last 3 were alot less common tbh, but ill give you jirachi since it relies on paraflinch and definitely crobat.

He cant every single coverage move. Bug buzz and fiery dance/fb are almost given. Hp water gives him the most coverage imo with only jellicent really giving him trouble. Half of the pokes you listed cant really setup on amy of them. Modest chandy is doing almost 75% with fire blast, rhyperior can have stone edge or rock blast, tini just blasts him away with v create.

Swampy, hippowdon and jelli are prob the 3 pokes that would need to invest iheavily in atk/sp atk to immediately threaten moth.

 

[Meru]

Turn 1

Snorlax comes in.
Volcarona setups

Turn 2

Volcarona setups
Snorlax setups

Turn 3

Volcarona setups
Snorlax setups and can now 2hko it
Volcarona attacks and fails to 2hko ,,,

Please tell me how is volcarona beating snorlax.

I mean if you wanna go ahead and be dumb and not even read my post feel free to????? I know you know I have run Curselax so try not to be so airheaded in the future.

Anyways, Jellicent is not a counter to Volcarona unless it's running Toxic, as Scald even barely scrapes away any health at +2 SpD, and Jellicent has never been relevant to the UU metagame, not to mention the option of Giga Drain. Let's not discuss that any further (this coming from someone whose top five favorite pokemon is Jellicent)

What needs to be discussed is reliable sweeping conditions. Is preventing/clearing Stealth Rock easy enough for the Volcarona team? Are there enough set-up opportunities for Volcarona on common teams, if so, on what Pokemon? We know that the counters fluctuate based on moveset, but what's more important to Volcarona staying UU is whether or not it can even begin a QD sweep.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Hello why on earth would snorlax attack straight away instead of simply setuping 2 curses and then 2hkoing volca while a +3 volca actually fails to 2hko back. Sure theres that 30% chance to burn but that by itself doesnt invalidate lax as a counter just like venomoth having a 25% chance to miss sleep powder doesnt make it any less broken. If you want to make an actual case for volca being banned then the focus should be on the life orb set which can actually hurt lax badly and even do something to blissey (but still loses to both,,,).

 

[Moose V]

What exactly is the appeal for wanting this thing in UU? It outclasses all other special sweepers by miles and allowing it to stay would almost certainly be a step away from creating the ideal balanced metagame. I feel very strongly that continuing Volc's presence would be a huge mistake.