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NU Pokemon of the Week - Golurk

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by DTC, Sep 21, 2012.

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  1. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Welcome to the pilot of the newest NU forum project, Pokemon of the Week. You will probably be familiar with it if you frequent the UU, RU, or RoA Smogon Metagame sub-forum, but for those of you who are new to this, I will explain it.

    The purpose of this project is twofold: to discuss prominent NU Pokemon and serve as a guide of sorts to newer players. A new Pokemon will be discussed each week. Feel free to share your experiences with the Pokemon, their role in the NU metagame, creative sets you've came up with that are effective, etc.

    There is also a page on-site in the NU hub that will detail all of the NU Pokemon of the Week. It can be found Here

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The first Pokemon of the Week is:

    [​IMG]
    Ludicolo
    Type: Water / Grass
    Base Stats: 80 HP / 70 Atk / 70 Def / 90 SpA / 100 SpD / 70 Spe
    Ability: Swift Swim, Rain Dish, Own Tempo

    Ludicolo has been rapidly increasing in popularity recently. Lots of NU players agree that it's one of, if not the best sweeper in NU. It's incredibly potent and also more versatile than people give it credit for. Surely the rise in rain teams lately attests to how effective Ludicolo is. What do you guys think of Ludicolo?
  2. Elegy96

    Elegy96

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    Ludicolo is insanely good. Great stats all around make him viable in several roles. Although a Rain setter and sweeper is his best role, being capable of tearing through entire teams with little trouble, he can also work as a defensive pivot, with a great ability in Rain Dish, effectively giving him double Leftovers. A great typing in Water-Grass also gives him some handy resistances and neutrals, for example Grass cancels out Water's Grass and Electric weaknesses, while Water cancels out Grass' Ice and Fire weaknesses.
  3. Ewil

    Ewil

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    Ludicolo is a great Rain sweeper, but even a great rain counter with Rain Dish+Giga Drain.
    With rain his water moves becomes insanely powerfull and his typing and stats gives him a damn good bulk. His weakness are pretty rare or obvius to predict, so you can switch easily in to a check/counter and his bulk allows him to survive even a super effective hit (Special SE attacks or weak SE physical).
  4. CrashinBoomBang

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    Ludicolo is probably the best Pokemon in NU right now, all the way up there with Zangoose. It has all the things that make it a great sweeper: minimal setup (it just needs one turn to set up Rain Dance, allowing it to shred most stuff in NU in one hit), a speed stat that allows it to outrun most revenge killers, enough firepower to break even the bulkiest of walls most of the time, great typing and just the right movepool to actually pull of the sweeper role. And, unlike most sweepers of that kind, it isn't frail by any means: It can easily set up Rain Dance against weak Special Attackers and most of those that can't hit its fantastic typing super-effectively, including but not limited to special Samurott, Zebstrika, Gorebyss and even stuff like Scarfed Rotom/Charizard in a pinch, since even those two can't OHKO it with STAB Air Slash. Once it actually has set up, there are very, very few Pokemon that can stand up to its incredibly powerful attacks and even less Pokemon that outspeed it. While it may have problems setting up Rain Dance at times, especially in the face of powerful physical attacker such as Zangoose, Absol, and Braviary (the former two can revenge kill it as well) and definitely has problems breaking through certain threats such as Specially Defensive Amoonguss and Lickilicky, its pros outweight its cons by a long shot.

    Seriously, I've been using Ludicolo since the beginning of Black and White 2 now, and Ludicolo has never ceased to amaze me, either sweeping teams outright or pulling off fantastic comebacks all the time. It doesn't even need a dedicated team/rain team built around it, since it just fits extremely well onto offensive teams with its great resistances. If there's one Pokemon that should skyrocket in usage within the near future it's probably Ludicolo, and rightfully so.
  5. ThePhalanx

    ThePhalanx

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    I won't say anything for Ludicolo (I'm sure everyone can and will say how great it is) BUT one thing to note is that Swift Swim Seismitoad (I've been seeing a rise in them too) can outspeed and KO SS Ludicolo with Sludge Wave after a few hits of LO recoil. (Though bulkier sets and bulky Rain Dish Ludicolo stops it cold).

    Rain in general has been seeing a rise lately, and for good reason. Personally, I've been running a Dual Weather team, with Ludicolo providing rain and Exeggutor + Charizard for sun. It's fun watching how one weather breaks through a team while the other cleans up any stragglers.
  6. Ashley11

    Ashley11

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    I agree that ludicolo is really good, with, what I think is nothing in the NU tier that resists All of it's attacks. This means that ludicolo can take a nice chunk out of about anything. It also has great typing, but with a flying weakness you need to watch out for scarf rotom f. I haven't seen too much use of the bulky set so I can't really say anything about that. But, without rain set up ludicolo is mainly just a pile of dirt. But, if once you do get the rain set up, your going to have a good chance of sweeping.

    Overall, I think ludicolo is a fairly over average Pokemon, but has to rely on weather to sweep. I would stick with gorebyss IMO.
  7. WhiteDMist

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    In addition to what everyone else has already said, Ludicolo is notable for being a Pokemon that most NU teams have trouble dealing with unless they specifically adapt their team to handle it. With most NU teams being offensive, many teams don't carry a Special Wall. Even outside of Rain, I've found that Ludicolo has some amazing utility in: handling Gorebyss (boosted and unboosted), scaring out opposing Water and Fire types, being a good switch in to SubSeed users, and others that I can't think of off the top of my head. When rating teams, I've seen many a team that has a severe Water weakness. Ludicolo is usually an excellent option for most teams in order to handle these powerful threats.

    I've used Ludicolo ever since it fell into the tier for many of the reasons I've listed above. Funnily enough, I had considered Ludicolo to be an anti-meta Pokemon when it was lower in usage. Even now, I still find Ludicolo to be an excellent Pokemon to somewhat 'counter-team' a considerable portion of NU players. With the rise in Jolly Samurott, a Timid nature has become a necessity; the lower power is a bit disappointing against Special Walls like Lickilicky, but at least with Rocks and a layer of Spikes it is a guaranteed 2HKO in the Rain with Hydro Pump (57.31 - 68.16%).
  8. CrashinBoomBang

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    The main things Ludicolo has over Gorebyss are better typing and speed; and both are actually really, REALLY important. Ludicolo can sponge attacks such as Hidden Power [Grass] or even STAB Giga Drain pretty easily while Gorebyss just gets destroyed by them. It also gets STAB on its Grass attack which, again, is incredibly useful to OHKO Alomomola/Samurott if you can't get to set up. You also don't lower your defense when using your boosting move. The only true advantages Gorebyss has over Ludicolo are a lot more power and what is arguably a better boosting move regardless of defense drops (no 5 turn limit and you also get a Special Attack raise). I really wouldn't directly compare the two, though.

    Also, its Flying weakness doesn't matter that much as you outspeed Rotom-S in rain and you can take a Scarf'd Air Slash regardless. If anything, Gorebyss has problems with Rotom-S since Gorebyss is easily outsped at +2 and Rotom-S can actually use Volt Switch to kill Gorebyss/get a free switch instead of the easy-to-set-up-on Air Slash.
  9. SotheBlacKnight

    SotheBlacKnight

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    The only pokemon that I've seen that can handle the Rain Sweeper set is special defensive Amoonguss and Lickilicky and even they can get hit pretty heavily. Amoonguss is 3HKO by Modest Ice Beam and Lickilicky is done in with Hydro Pumps under rain.
  10. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Another thing that's nice about Ludicolo that hasn't been mentioned is that it can heal as it's sweeping thanks to STAB Giga Drain. Few other sweepers boast the ability to do this. Its bulk, ability to outspeed nearly ever Choice Scarf user after setting up, unique typing that gives it few weaknesses, and easy set up opportunities on Pokemon like special Samurott go a long way in making Ludicolo the potent sweeper it is.

    One of the only things I dislike about Ludicolo is its typing is awkward for FWG cores. It lacks that Fire-type resistance that every other Water-type in the tier has. It's still a fantastic Pokemon though; this is just a minor annoyance.
  11. WhiteDMist

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    @DTC: Wouldn't it be more prudent to consider Ludicolo the Grass-type in a FWG core? Rather than considering it a Water type that doesn't resist Fire, think of it as a Grass-type that isn't weak to Fire. :)
  12. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

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    I don't think ludicolo can be considered as a water or a grass type in fwg cores. The point of these cores is to have the combination of resistances of those 3 types, and ludicolo only has a huge water resistance and a cool ground and steel resist. It's offensive set is not tanking any powerful fire, ice or grass move. It still can be used defensively since specialy defensive ludicolo is one of the only things to resist water without fearing ice and have reliable recovery. It also has access to scald wich is a cool move on sepecialy defensive mons since it threatens every offensive physical pokemon that would want to come in to abuse it's weaker defence. Weakness to air slash and sludge bomb is still something pretty annoying on a special wall when you could be using a normal type that doesn't fear it. His resistances aren't incredible either and a specialy defensive set might suffer from 4 move slot syndrome. I'll still give specialy defensive ludicolo a try, talking about it makes me want to test it.

    Since we've already talked about offesnive ludicolo in another thread (the best pokemon in NU), I'll take this oppurtunity to start a discussion about specialy defensive ludicolo. Is it worth trying ? what set is best ? Is own tempo better than rain abusing abilities when using synthesis ? Is leech seed a good idea ?
  13. Raikaria

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    Shedinja. Unless it's running HP Fire/Rock/Dark/Ghost/Flying. But nothing resists any pokemon fully if you take HP into account, barring things like Magikarp.

    Also, Ludicolo, in my opinion, isn't good because of one particular set. It's good because of it's combination. It's versatility. You see most pokemon in NU and you know exactly what they aim to do. Not so for Ludicolo.

    Tankier Ludicolos who abuse Rain Dish in tandem with Leech Seed/Giga Drain can still dish out respectable damage with Rain boosted Surfs, and Ludi's weaknesses are easily covered by any rock type.

    Then there's sweeper Ludicolos, who have a massive movepool; hell, Ludicolo can even run a physical set with his coverage, he does get Swords Dance too... and can even use Drain Punch to keep himself healthy like the special sweeper.

    About the only thing he can't do is run a dedicated support set.

    Think like Gen 4 Salamence, he can run multiple sets, all of them deadly, and if you pick the wrong set to respond to you get screwed over by the other set.
  14. ium

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    i have to agree with this; water/grass is more of a blessing in terms of offensive typing than it is defensively although the water and ground resist is neat.

    while ludicolo is monstrous in the rain, it's not so great against opposing ludicolo because giga drain and life orb going back and forth is unreliable and could just result in either side sweeping the opponent once one of them is down. i really favor the offensive variant but specially defensive ludicolo may seem like a better rain check while not being a "maybe" against offensive ludicolo.

    also leech seed works fine in conjunction with giga drain so i don't think synthesis is entirely necessary unless it helps ludicolo beat something one-on-one. i would personally go with leech seed and three attacks with a bulky spread because the only main draw i see to this is just having a more reliable answer to rain dance ludicolo while checking/countering some of the same rain threats in general. i would still like to keep the fantastic coverage. i've never tried a bulky ludicolo though. also, hidden power electric would theoretically be nice on any ludicolo so it can smack swanna or mantine harder, but it's just terrible four slot move syndrome right there. :(

    anyway, what are some good teammates that ludicolo appreciates? offensively, i like normal types (zangoose mainly) and skuntank that could weaken or rid of amoonguss, lickilicky, and bulky psychic types that could give ludicolo trouble.
  15. CrashinBoomBang

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    Yeah, my favorite teammates for Ludicolo are probably Zangoose, whom you already mentioned, as well as special Samurott who can punch holes into most Pokemon that cause Ludicolo trouble (not to mention that he can take out opposing Ludicolo with Megahorn so the situation you described doesn't come up).
  16. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    Honestly, Ludicolo isn't that versatile, especially compared to other Pokemon in the tier such as Braviary, Emboar, and Samurott. It's still more versatile than Pokemon such as Klang or Golem, but it's main selling point isn't versatility. Its main selling points are it's great typing which is great offensively and defensively, and its ability to put the whole match into its favor with the use of Rain Dance. A Specially Defensive set it pretty good, but isn't as game-changing as the Rain Dance set.

    The only thing I dislike about Ludicolo is how setting up Rain Dance is pretty hard to do in this metagame where there are multiple powerhouses that won't allow Ludicolo a free turn. Priority is a small issue for Ludicolo since it only resists Aqua Jet and takes a decent chunk from other priority moves such as Mach Punch or Sucker Punch. As a side note, some special Samurotts are starting to run Megahorn to nail Ludicolo pretty hard. Ludicolo is a really great Pokemon that should definitely be noted as one of the best Pokemon in NU atm.
  17. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    in my opinion Ludicolo is in the top 3 pokemon in NU. He has a really cool typing, which gives him STAB on two solid attacking types. His STABs alone are enough to rip through most teams, with Ice Beam allowing him to beat Altara and Grass-types.

    I woudn't call Ludicolo a versatile Pokemon, there are two sets that I would use. The Rain Dance sweeper, which rips through most teams easily. And the tank set, which walls most Ludicolo.

    What I really love about Ludicolo is that it is the best Special Water-type in the tier, while also being the best counter to special water-types.

    There are some Ludicolo sets that I've really wanted to try, particularly Swords Dance, if anyone has experience with it I'd love to know if it works or not :)
  18. NidoJosh

    NidoJosh

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    Ludicolo is easily one of the largest threats in the NU Metagame
    As mentioned previously, his two powerful STABs are enough to plow through the majority of pokemon in the metagame, and this is also helped by being potentially the fastest pokemon on the field due to the possible presence of rain - which Ludicolo itself can set up.

    I play my Ludicolo with Cincinno, another fast threat who covers the other side of the attacking spectrum. Together, there really is nothing that can put an absolute stop to them
  19. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Alright, we've talked enough about Ludicolo. I'll update the hub sometime tomorrow.

    Next Pokemon of the Week

    [​IMG]
    Braviary
    Type: Normal / Flying
    Base Stats: 100 HP / 123 Atk / 75 Def / 57 SpA / 75 SpD / 80 Spe
    Ability: Sheer Force / Keen Eye / Defiant

    Ever since the SubBU set was discovered, Braviary has been a hot topic among NU players. Braviary was always a very potent Pokemon that has the ability to easily break through NU teams even before it got Roost in BW2. What do you guys think of Braviary?
  20. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    Ah Braviary, one of my recent favorites in the NU tier atm. We all know that Braviary can destroy the tier with a CB set, set-up and beats Rock-types with its Substitute Bulk Up Roost set, or revenge kill/late-game sweep with a Scarf set, but you will never know which set it will run when you see it in a battle. Its versatility is one of it's main attributes (ever since SubBU was "released") since you will never know which set it is running. It might be bluffing a scarf, it might 2HKO your mighty physical walls, or you could be sending your Rock-type to hell. You won't know until it makes its move.

    Aside from Braviary's versatility, Braviary is still a huge threat with its powerful Brave Bird paired with a wonderful coverage move in Superpower. It's high base Attack stat paired with its decent speed allows it to tear holes in offensive and defensive teams alike. Its Stealth Rock weakness is a downer, but decent spinners have come out of their shell in the form of SMASHKOAL and Armaldo. Braviary is also a great part of "Normal spam" chains as it is one of the best normal types in the tier while taking care of Rock-types with SubBU that trouble most Normal types. Braviary fits on many teams due to it's great sets and just being a good pokemon in general.

  21. FLCL

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    if you're not carrying two solid checks to braviary then your team is built wrong. it can break walls with the sub + bulk up set or simply smash through the opponent with a choiced set. one of the most versatile pokemon in the tier for sure.
  22. ium

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    well, the good points about braviary have already been outlined. but the issue with braviary is that a lot of the power or speed backing it up comes from being choiced which is really irritating for a stealth rock weak pokémon when the user predicts wrong. and admittedly, being choice locked into superpower can suck. for sub + bu, it doesn't really have that immediate offensive prowess so it can be pressured by offense. it also kind of suffers from having to use one attack. brave bird does hurt electric types even if it's resisted, but there are still a fair amount of bulky ones that comfortably take one at +1 and get off at least two attacks.

    now, these cons are easily outweighed by the benefits. even though the user needs to predict with a choiced braviary, so does the opponent. a lot of the rock type checks lack recovery, so they can be worn down or can be taken out with a well-timed superpower. even though stealth rock limits the hit-and-run nature of braviary, it's bound to get at least a kill in the right hands. sub + bu practically shits on almost anything using a weak/uninvested attack which is pretty common with all the regenerator cores or whatnot. it's not even limited to this too, which makes braviary so good.

    i wouldn't exactly call it versatility (even though i did say that once). it's just that the choiced and sub + bu sets play extremely differently that you may just need that extra check.
  23. Raikaria

    Raikaria

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    I've got to admit, my favorite set is Life Orb now that Braviery has Roost. Braviery forces so many switches out of fear I can usually get some healing done viva Roost at some point in the game.
  24. ebeast

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    Braviary is a really good Pokemon in NU and shares a key characteristic with Samurott, its set unpredictability. Braviary can run Choice sets or the newly "discovered" SubBulk Up set that turns it into a big threat before it even does anything. The opponent won't know what they're dealing with until after Braviary make a move, and a missplay could be dastardly. Think you might be dealing with a Scarf Braviary and want to switch into your Alomomola? You might find yourself at the wrong side of a Substitute with Braviary ready to Bulk Up to victory. Maybe you infer that the opposing Braviary is a SubBU set you and immediately go to your Golem, Regirock, or Carracosta attempting to shut it down before it's too late. If not careful you might get smashed by a Superpower or having the Braviary U-turn out into another dangerous Pokemon such as Ludicolo or Samurott. This level of unpredictability is what makes Braviary so hard to deal that teams will carry more than one check to prevent it from being beating down their teams. Even if you know what set Braviary is using it can still provide a challenge to deal with as a Choice Band Braviary is capable of doing massive damage by just spamming Brave Bird or using Superpower at the right time, while a well timed Bulk Up or Substitute from SubBU might allow Braviary to even beat some Rock-type Pokemon with its ability to stall out Stone Edge.

    Overall Braviary is a difficult Pokemon to deal with and one of the best Pokemon in the tier due to it's unpredictability, effectiveness in all of its sets, and the pressure it puts on the opponent by just being there.
    Passion, TROP and atomicllamas like this.
  25. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    So Metang dropped! That'll be a bit of a pain for Braviary, but at least SubBU Braviary just sets up all over Metang.

    One trait I particularly enjoy about Braviary is its excellent bulk. 100 / 75 / 75 is solid, especially for an offensive Pokemon. Braviary can survive most common attacks and withstands the very common priority well. Thanks to its solid bulk, it is quite easy to find opportunities to Roost back health. I haven't seen much of Life Orb Roost Braviary, which is a shame because it effectively combines the power of Choice Band and the durability of SubBU. Braviary also forces quite a lot of switches, which you can take advantage of by using Roost.

    Here's one set I've been theorymon'ing in my head for the past 20 minutes:

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Braviary [​IMG] (Sharp Beak)
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird
    - Return
    - Superpower
    - Roost

    Very similar to the Life Orb Roost set, except more durable. I've always been interested in using a bulky offensive Braviary EV spread because its Speed isn't that stellar and it has fantastic Attack + defenses. Life Orb recoil is annoying in many situations; I've started to sway away from using Life Orb on many Pokemon because of that. Sharp Beak makes Braviary's main STAB -- Brave Bird -- more powerful. Perhaps Life Orb would be the better option because otherwise you don't do that much to most Rock-types, but Sharp Beak might be an interesting option. One flaw I see with bulky Braviary is you underspeed Pokemon such as Samurott and Ludicolo, but if you're using Adamant, Braviary already fails to outspeeding those two Pokemon if they're using Jolly -- which they are using much more often nowadays -- anyways. Bulky Choice Band is probably pretty good as well (PS EV spread suggester recommends it!!).

    Any other flaws I've missed about bulky Braviary? I know I've said this idea before on IRC, but I figured I'd post it here as well.
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