I forgot about Hidden Power Ice which is indeed better. *switches moves*out of all the dragons in nu the only one that can "wall" charizard is altaria so hp ice is better than dragon pulse in that case
I've used Dragonair before, and it's a strange Pokemon. Though I love it to death and have used it on half the NU teams I've used, it really is outclassed by a lot of other Dragons in specific roles.One last nomination I'm gonna make is Dragonair to Top-C, or maybe even Low-B. I started using it a while ago and it's really really good, since it can set up all day against stall (except Bastiodon I guess) and is a really good check to a ton of things in this meta. It's super bulky and its Dragon typing lets it switch in on a whole slew of things and start setting up. It sets up super easy and even has ExtremeSpeed which I think OHKOes Jynx after +2 and rocks (too lazy to run calcs). ExtremeSpeed is another super cool thing about Dragonair since it lets it revenge kill low-health threats even without a boost, and it doesn't really need any coverage moves because of the lack of Steels. It has a ton of utility, and it also counters Eel and Zard which is a feat in itself.
sawk does its one job - wallbreaking - extremely well and it is unmatched in the tier for its amazing wallbreaking potential. Every team will have a Musharna, Misdreavus, or Alomomola +a ghost simply because otherwise they will lose to sawk. As tennisace said, the fact that your opponent will be hesitant to send out their hazard setter as a lead if you are carrying sawk is a potentially GOOD thing for you. You can easily use this to your advantage and send out somehing like Kangaskhan on their predicted Jynx. Sawk performs this one role extremely effectively, which is why it should stay in Low S.Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the NU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this tier have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
So Sawk is really well prepared for in the current meta and thus isn't as effective as it once was, which means it should remain S-rank? It's the same thing as what happened with Carracosta. It was a really unprepared for offensive threat that was really effective mostly because of this. It's still a really great Pokemon, but more people keep it in mind while teambuilding which makes it far less effective than it used to be.Every team will have a Musharna, Misdreavus, or Alomomola +a ghost simply because otherwise they will lose to sawk.
I really don't think Dragonair is outclassed at all as a bulky DD user / pivot / status absorber. Dragonair's two abilities push it far ahead as a RestTalker, since Shed Skin can potentially wake you up earlier and Marvel Scale actually takes advantage of Rest's sleeping status. While RestTalk obviously isn't the most reliable strategy out there, Dragonair makes the best out of it and is way more reliable than Shelgon who relies on the same method of healing. Meanwhile, Shelgon has higher physical bulk, but lacks many useful physical resistances to make use of it, and has significantly lower special bulk than Nair so it can't use its Fire- or Electric-type resistances as effectively. Dragonair is also way better than Altaria as a status absorber, since even though Altaria has Natural Cure and Heal Bell, the former requires switching out which compounds its SR weakness and the latter can be easily stalled out of PP. Nair is definitely outclassed offensively, but that's not really the point here. Dragonair has a lot of things going for it as a bulkier Dragon, and I feel it's a bit more reliable at what it does than its competition.I've used Dragonair before, and it's a strange Pokemon. Though I love it to death and have used it on half the NU teams I've used, it really is outclassed by a lot of other Dragons in specific roles.
As a bulky Dragon, I think Altaria outclasses it; although Dragonair has superior bulk, Shed Skin/Marvel Scale, and a lack of a weakness to Rock (and Stealth Rock) and quad weakness to Ice, Altaria has Roost (which someone mitigates its weaknesses as well), Heal Bell with Natural Cure, and Leftovers, as well as a typing that gives it a resistance to the Fighting-type attackers and Ground-type coverage running around NU. As a pure attacker, it's outclassed by Fraxure, which is arguably the best Dragon-type in the tier because of Dragon Dance and good, powerful neutral coverage backed by 117 base Attack.
Like most of the Dragon-types in NU, the only things it can viably use are bulky tank or support sets. However, the only real niche it has over Shelgon, Gabite, and Zweilous is the aforementioned Shed Skin or Marvel Scale, the former of which grants it a semi-immunity to status and the latter of which blasts its defenses through the roof if using a RestTalk set. But Dragonair fails to stand out because each Dragon-type mentioned here has something that gives it an edge over its competitors for a team slot: Shelgon is significantly stronger in physical defense, Gabite has access to Stealth Rock as well as a powerful secondary STAB, and Zweilous has the strongest offensive stats because of Hustle as well as a double-edged secondary typing (weak to Fighting, but immune to Psychic). Every one is crippled by a lack of reliable recovery and inability to use Leftovers (though Eviolite helps their defenses), or depends on the unreliable RestTalk set that hampers immediate offense and leaves only two moveslots to work with, usually taken by the predictable Outrage and Dragon Dance. It seems that most of the Dragons in NU are rather underwhelming simply because, as pre-evos, they lack the stats to attack the moment they come in and serve better as support that is probably better left to other Pokemon. Low-C or mid-C is as high as any of these dragons should go. (Seeing Zweilous sitting in mid-B is a little strange, though I might just be jumping to conclusions because I rarely see it or use it myself, but I don't want to overly discuss things I don't use.)
Just as a personal story, I used a weird set on Dragonair, which is Dragon Tail/Dragon Dance/Sleep Talk/Rest with max HP and Special Defense. Even though using a speed-boosting move with a move that has negative priority, it worked. With Rocks and two layers of Spikes, I brought it in mid-game and proceeded to stall and set up for over thirty turns with pseudo-priority phazing. Not saying the set is good, but it was hilarious.
Pretty much this. Between the boosting Dragons of NU, Dragonair seems to have the best of 3 worlds: it is a better RestTalker than Shelgon due to its abilities improving its effectiveness and is also faster, it absorbs status way better than Altaria to accomplish an effective boosting role (in terms of outright walling, Altaria is better, but Nair isn't meant to just wall), and it has the offensive potential comparable to Fraxure (not better I will admit). We've already acknowledged that Nair is not as good as Frax offensively, but this is a nomination for Top-C, not Low-B. Dat Blast has already mentioned many advantages Dragonair has over each of its Dragon brethren.I really don't think Dragonair is outclassed at all as a bulky DD user / pivot / status absorber. Dragonair's two abilities push it far ahead as a RestTalker, since Shed Skin can potentially wake you up earlier and Marvel Scale actually takes advantage of Rest's sleeping status. While RestTalk obviously isn't the most reliable strategy out there, Dragonair makes the best out of it and is way more reliable than Shelgon who relies on the same method of healing. Meanwhile, Shelgon has higher physical bulk, but lacks many useful physical resistances to make use of it, and has significantly lower special bulk than Nair so it can't use its Fire- or Electric-type resistances as effectively. Dragonair is also way better than Altaria as a status absorber, since even though Altaria has Natural Cure and Heal Bell, the former requires switching out which compounds its SR weakness and the latter can be easily stalled out of PP. Nair is definitely outclassed offensively, but that's not really the point here. Dragonair has a lot of things going for it as a bulkier Dragon, and I feel it's a bit more reliable at what it does than its competition.
Dragonair has better speed and reliability in RestTalking (Shed Skin cures, Marvel Scale tanks more hits while asleep), as well as better special bulk and Marvel Scale patching up its lesser Defense. I don't even know how to compare Gabite with Dragonair: their resistances are very different from each other, while one knows Dragon Dance & the other knows Stealth Rock. Zweilous may give some legitimate competition as a RestTalking tank, but it cannot boost and has more weaknesses.Like most of the Dragon-types in NU, the only things it can viably use are bulky tank or support sets. However, the only real niche it has over Shelgon, Gabite, and Zweilous is the aforementioned Shed Skin or Marvel Scale, the former of which grants it a semi-immunity to status and the latter of which blasts its defenses through the roof if using a RestTalk set. But Dragonair fails to stand out because each Dragon-type mentioned here has something that gives it an edge over its competitors for a team slot: Shelgon is significantly stronger in physical defense, Gabite has access to Stealth Rock as well as a powerful secondary STAB, and Zweilous has the strongest offensive stats because of Hustle as well as a double-edged secondary typing (weak to Fighting, but immune to Psychic). Every one is crippled by a lack of reliable recovery and inability to use Leftovers (though Eviolite helps their defenses), or depends on the unreliable RestTalk set that hampers immediate offense and leaves only two moveslots to work with, usually taken by the predictable Outrage and Dragon Dance. It seems that most of the Dragons in NU are rather underwhelming simply because, as pre-evos, they lack the stats to attack the moment they come in and serve better as support that is probably better left to other Pokemon. Low-C or mid-C is as high as any of these dragons should go. (Seeing Zweilous sitting in mid-B is a little strange, though I might just be jumping to conclusions because I rarely see it or use it myself, but I don't want to overly discuss things I don't use.)
These are my thoughts on the matter as well, except Missy also has to consider Heal Bell. Although Missy can be used to check a very large number of threats, she really can't do all of them simultaneously- every move you chose over another is another couple of pokemon that can beat you. You could use her as a spin blocker with Shadow Ball and such, but then she's a walking invitation for Normal Types to sub up. You could try using foul play instead, but now the two best spinners in the tier take fuck all from your attacks and can just sit there waiting to burn you with Lava Plume or Scald, respectively. If you don't run Pain Split it's incredibly easy to wear you down, and if you don't run taunt you're helpless against stall (especially if you opted for Foul Play). Not running Heal Bell means that Toxic screws you over, not running Will-o-Wisp means that Sawk can just Earthquake you to death. You get the idea.Misdreavus has a 4MSS, having to choose between Taunt, Pain Split, Will-O-Wisp, Perish Song, Shadow Ball, and Foul Play, which can stop it from doing as much as you would want it to. Sorry for this little post but I feel like Punchshroom pretty much said every reason as to why Misdreavus should stay Top-A.
I have 2 major nominations right now:Charizard up to Low S from Top A
Sawk down to Top A from Low S
Dragonair up to Top C from Low C
Pinsir up to Top B from Mid B
Alomomola up to Top A from Mid A
Camerupt up to Top B from Mid B
Roselia is really great right now, she can set up Spikes, hit hard. Her typing allows her to tank a lot of really strong hits. Being a great spiker alone should be enough for Top B. I could see her pushing for A, but that might be stretching it.Roselia up to Top B from Mid B
Probopass up to Top B (or Low A) from Mid B