Obama's First Term

Obama Poll

  • obama is a great president

    Votes: 9 5.1%
  • obama is a good president

    Votes: 53 30.1%
  • obama is a decent president

    Votes: 74 42.0%
  • obama is a bad president

    Votes: 40 22.7%

  • Total voters
    176

Eraddd

One Pixel
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PostingDoes not equate to an intelligent discussion. Its just a way to make you feel better for voting for a do-nothing president.

I did not vote for Obama (or McCain). I didn't want him to be my president. He stands for many things that I abhor. But I've actually been pleasantly surprised that he has been such a do-nothing president. His impact has been so small that the next president should be able to clean up after him.

And no offense, but the majority of those "What has Obama done?" quips are incredibly small matters. You could easily compile a list much longer for Bush, if it wasn't for the fact that that particular two-term president is unpopular on the internet.

I listen to NPR every single day. The newscasters there clearly supported Obama from the start, and are general liberal leaning. I've been listening to nothing but complaining, disappointment, and frustration from the very people who pushed for and voted for that man for 3 years now. Sure, if all you read is internetwebblogtrash you'll hear a lot of hopeful support.

As someone who opposes many of his political positions, I'm fairly happy with the way he's acted in the presidency.
First: Where did I compare Bush to Obama.
Second: You still haven't put out any reason for your snide post. How dare he support the other side? List reasons as to why he's justified in doing so, instead of making stupid remarks.

You claim the next president can clean up Obama's "mess". You also claim he's a do-nothing president. You're being inconsistent. Either you believe he's has had an impact (however negative it may be), or none at all. Stop trying to substantiate your irrational dislike of Obama with bullshit.

Nothing in your post actually describes why Obama was a terrible president.
 
Am I the only one who reads this thread and comes out with a completely neutral opinion on Obama? It seems like people who go too far either way are grossly misinformed and/or have some kind of spasm because of how Obama reacts to their fundamental beliefs.
 

DM

Ce soir, on va danser.
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If you can't post in this topic without being openly insulting to others, don't bother. This is the only warning I will give.
 
obama is basically trying to put humpty dumpty back together again.
I cannot stand that statement. How long is that an excuse for nothing changing while he is president? I'm assuming you mean bush left him a mess like many others are implying. I'm still not sure how Bush is responsible for banking and the housing market.
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
I cannot stand that statement. How long is that an excuse for nothing changing while he is president? I'm assuming you mean bush left him a mess like many others are implying. I'm still not sure how Bush is responsible for banking and the housing market.

either you don't know how to read economic research that differs from what you already believe or you've never heard of deregulation.

or had you forgotten that the economic crisis happened during the Bush Administration as a consequence of an atmosphere of deregulation of institutions and supply-side economics.
 
either you don't know how to read economic research that differs from what you already believe or you've never heard of deregulation.

or had you forgotten that the economic crisis happened during the Bush Administration as a consequence of an atmosphere of deregulation of institutions and supply-side economics.
Was there some sort of Bush administration doctrine encouraging competing business and financial institutions to make poor lending choices? I don't recall Bush telling banks what to do. Just because it happened during his term doesn't mean it's his fault.
 
On track with the OP, Obama really hasn't accomplished much in my opinion. Also on whatthefuckhasobamadone it listed him closing Guantanamo as an accomplishment.
 

Firestorm

I did my best, I have no regrets!
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Was there some sort of Bush administration doctrine encouraging competing business and financial institutions to make poor lending choices? I don't recall Bush telling banks what to do. Just because it happened during his term doesn't mean it's his fault.
Removing restrictions on dangerous lending practices and making them the easiest way of creating short-term profits is the same as encouraging them and yes that is his administration's fault. Although to be fair, it started with Reagan. This documentary takes a decent look at it. I found it a bit dry but they have interviews with many of the culprits and critics:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/inside_job_2010/
 
I cannot stand that statement. How long is that an excuse for nothing changing while he is president? I'm assuming you mean bush left him a mess like many others are implying. I'm still not sure how Bush is responsible for banking and the housing market.
The effects of a serious economic change like deregulation of lending takes more than 5 years to manifest and you expect it fixed in 2?
 
Removing restrictions on dangerous lending practices and making them the easiest way of creating short-term profits is the same as encouraging them and yes that is his administration's fault. Although to be fair, it started with Reagan. This documentary takes a decent look at it. I found it a bit dry but they have interviews with many of the culprits and critics:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/inside_job_2010/
Oh Republicans, what are we to do with you... :I


But to be fair Bill Clinton's mortgage policies did have some effect on the crisis, too.
 

Codraroll

Cod Mod
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First of all, I'm no American. Let that be some kind of warning in case of a bias in this post.

To us foreigners, the US seemed to display a nasty "we do whatever we want 'cause we're 'murricka and if you're not with us you're our enemy!" attitude at the end of Bush's term, and we were all quite fed up over here. "Imperialism" was on somebody's lips whenever the US was mentioned. Obama stretched out a hand of dialogue, particularly to the Muslim world, where quite some tension had been built up over the past eight years. For changing the political climate, he got the Nobel Prize (I admit that that committee has made better decisions, but it wasn't entirely undeserved).

To me, it seems like the political scene in the US has been increasingly polarized lately. To us foreigners, it looks like a giant poop-flinging contest between parties, where making sure the other party doesn't rule the country is more important than actually ruling the country. Republicans block Democrat proposals because it would have been an achievement for the Democrats if it went through. Vice versa when the other party holds the majority in the Congress. Though, most of the poop-flinging happens without any politicians present, through independent media (Fox news have gained a notorious reputation overseas for being the worst, for instance). To sum it up, it looks like it's more about the competition than about politics.

In regards of budget spending, could anybody tell me where that power lies in the US? I can't imagine the president being given a sum and told to distribute it fairly, but I suppose he has something to say in the process. Either way, blaming the president only for budget overspending seems a little harsh.

Concerning Afghanistan, I ask people to read up on the conflict before they start commenting. And pulling out of Iraq isn't as simple as calling General McCarthy on the evening of the inauguration day, and tell him that the men can come home. The same could be said about Guantanamo. You don't have other permanent facilities to house this sort of criminals, and you can't just let them go either. Keep going (preferrably without the torture) while negotiating for a solution is the best way to go at the moment, I think.

The Obama adminstration has stepped into one nasty beehive, though: Pakistan. While the country on the paper is an ally of the US, there are strong rumours and various reports suggesting a bond between Pakistani intelligence bureau ISI and Taliban/Al-Qaeda. Either way, the drone attacks are regarded as an insult to Pakistani sovereignity. Imagine if France had sent their planes to bomb suburbs of New York, to take out people they suspect plan terror against the French Embassy. The bin Laden operation was actually per definition a short-lived invasion, because there were soldiers on the ground unauthorized by Pakistani government. Not exactly a way for the US to be popular over there, though it might have stopped significant threats to global security.

Though, Obama doesn't sit in the Oval Office doing war in the Middle East like it was some strategy game. I can imagine that he gets a proposal to "bomb target X to kill terrorist Y, but we need your authorization to do it" slapped on his desk whenever the strategists have found a target. All he does is reading and signing it, very few such operations would be his idea from the get go.

All in all, then, I'd say he's an okay president. Remember, he doesn't run the country alone, there are people in the system preventing him from doing whatever he want (for better or for worse, depending on the situation and your point of view), and it is hard to run a country. Things also tend to take time. Please keep that in mind.
 
I'm enjoying how all the obama supporters disregard Deck Knights post.
Deck isn't worth discussing with, any time you prove him incorrect he simply shifts the goalposts, declares it "your opinion" (as though you'd be posting someone else's opinion?), or comes back with some fundamentally unsound argument based off a study funded by a right wing think tank (especially on economic issues). Between that and the hyperbolic bullshit he really isn't worth it.
 

jrp

Banned deucer.
At the rate the Obama administration is going with spending, Obama's going to leave double the crap Bush left if he gets a second term...

If we don't do something about this Obamacare law, our country is done in 2014, because at that point everyone will either have to be on a "government-approved plan" or face fees not to. (there's a word for this, and that word would be socialism). So Obama isn't the president that has screwed America yet, but if he stays in office...maybe.

And who in God's green earth asks pretty please for getting a spy drone back from the IRANIAN GOVERNMENT. "oh yes, we'll give it back, and why don't we just give you all of our nuclear resources too... /sarcasm"

Yeah, I feel I'm going to be raising a bit of hell in this thread later on...
what is it with all you republicans acting like socialism is such a bad thing, canada has socialized health care, and they're doing just fine...
 
what is it with all you republicans acting like socialism is such a bad thing, canada has socialized health care, and they're doing just fine...
I'll tell you the difference: Canada is Not a "major" world power first of all, and isn't nearly as involved in foreign affairs as the U.S is, causing them to spend less money than we do. Secondly, Canada's provinces aren't nearly as diverse as our states, which brings me to my next point. Canada's population is around 34 million, which is a bit higher than 10% of the entire US population. With a small population and people with generally the same preferences, a "one-size-fits-all plan" may actually be feasible. In the US, we are a Major world power with completely diverse states with a large population, and a one-size fits all plan would never work nearly as well as it did for Canada. Why did the Massachusetts health care plan work so well then? because it was tailored for the people of Massachusetts, and only the people of Massachusetts. Obama, seeing how it worked so well, failed to see how the law was custom-made for Massachusetts, but still took the some of the same ideas of the plan and put it onto a federal scale, which won't work because again, it was made for the people of Massachusetts. Stick that plan and apply it to a state like Texas, all Hell would break loose, because they have different issues and different needs.

And even still, look at all the socialized health care Eurozone countries who are in a crapload of debt... Greece and Italy to name a few.

And just nitpicking, I never said I am a republican (although I am) outright.

To me, it seems like the political scene in the US has been increasingly polarized lately. To us foreigners, it looks like a giant poop-flinging contest between parties, where making sure the other party doesn't rule the country is more important than actually ruling the country. Republicans block Democrat proposals because it would have been an achievement for the Democrats if it went through. Vice versa when the other party holds the majority in the Congress. Though, most of the poop-flinging happens without any politicians present, through independent media (Fox news have gained a notorious reputation overseas for being the worst, for instance). To sum it up, it looks like it's more about the competition than about politics.
I have never heard such a more accurate analogy. Let's face it, The Republicans have people like Rush Limbaugh throwing stuff around about the Obamas, and the Democrats have the liberal magazine Newsweek finding unflattering pictures of the GOP presidential candidates. Part of this partisan situation is caused by the media itself. you'll here everything and more about Obama's "moments" from Fox news, and nothing from NBC. NBC would find everything they could about the GOP candidates, and never touched on Obama's "moments"

IMO, its important to know everything that we as the American people have the right to know. Yes, we should hear about what Obama's doing politically and economically, but at the same time we don't need to hear about his personal issues and his pecadillos. The same goes for the GOP, If Dick Cheney misspells a word SOMEONE would've written an article on it. Truthfully, we don't give a crap, and we shouldn't give a crap. Focus on the country, and not focusing on trying to make they other guy look guilty.

But to be fair Bill Clinton's mortgage policies did have some effect on the crisis, too.
And they did, and while it seemed great then, its now coming back to bite us in the butt. He basically gave houses to people who couldn't pay it back.
 

Firestorm

I did my best, I have no regrets!
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So basically: "Just because it works in Canada doesn't mean it'll work here for these reasons that aren't exactly all true" and "It didn't work in these two countries that are even less like the United States than Canada so it won't work here" in the same post.

Socialism is not a bad word. Your media has done a damn good job of making it that way though. Social democracy can work pretty well and it does. I'm not sure what being a world power really has to do with it. Nor do I understand how Canadian preferences "are the same" or what that even means.
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
America has many aspects of a socialist country, it did under Bush as much as it does under Obama. People in America don't know anything about politics as they continue to show in this thread.
 
@Myzozoa: American Politics could be a different science of itself then...

@Firestorm: part of understanding the whole "one-size-fits-all plan doesn't work" involves experience, and by that I mean living in America. Your social health care works for you, which is whats important. I didn't say socialism was a bad thing in itself, it just Doesn't work in this particular instance in our country, because again, each state has its different needs and issues.

And as far as the remark about Greece and Italy goes, I was just proving that just because it works for one country doesn't mean it will always work.
 
I think what he was trying to say, is America is so much larger in scale than Canada. Our populations are just so drastically different, that enforcing the mandated healthcare stipulations would be very difficult. Canada's system works well enough for its population size, while people in the United States tend to be antagonistic towards anything they think "infringes on their rights", or has any relation to the word "socialist".

Is Canada's healthcare mandatory? If you don't buy it, can the Canadian government fine the citizen for refusing it? I'm, sadly, not familiar with Canada's policies.
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
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Obamacare is entirely different than Canadian Healthcare/European Healthcare which is a single payer system. The reason why Obamacare is bad is because it isn't a single payer system, though it is a step in the right direction.

It's kind of shocking still, to see people in this thread rail against Canadian Healthcare which is very different than Obamacare and then try to ascribe their attacks on Canadian Healthcare to Obamacare. Not that I like Obamacare, in fact I much prefer the Canadian Healthcare system, it's just people showing their ignorance.

Canadian Health Care is paid for by greater taxes, there is no opt out as long as you're paying taxes to the Canadian Government. Though if you're poor enough you probably pay a diminished tax rate, so you may get it for 'free.'
 

Firestorm

I did my best, I have no regrets!
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Canadian healthcare system is more like the one in MA which I will continue abbreviating until I can spell the full state name. I was under the impression the Obama administration wanted to go single-payer but lobbyists for insurance companies and brainwashing of the public led them to the half-assed system that is being implemented?

Anyway, I just find it hilarious that people think that every state is different as if even different parts of the same province aren't different in Canada. A person in Dawson and a person in Vancouver aren't looking at the same needs. We still need health coverage though.
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
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Yeah, last i checked there was no Quebecois-esque separation movement in the U.S...
 
I never once said "Canadian health care is bad." And likely, I never will, because unlike Obamacare, IT WORKS. I just want to make it clear that if someone says "Oh, well Canada's doing well with their socialized healthcare, so it should work for us too," that it is not the case. I'm not criticizing social health care in general, I'm criticizing people's (rather, Americans') lack of foresight in thinking that "social health care will work because the other guys pulled it off." I am in no way against Canadian Health Care, and really can't say anything about it, so please don't accuse me of criticizing it, I'm merely trying to get the point across that our social health care act doesn't work here.

@Firestorm: unless someone brainwashed Obama (A daunting task, I assure you), if he wanted single payer, He would get single payer. Its called Obamacare, so it was mostly his idea.
 

Myzozoa

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Unless someone brainwashed you (a not so daunting task apparently), you'd know that Congress writes legislation not the president, health care was basically shitted up by congress and their pack of lobbyists. That doesn't excuse Obama, who signed it. You should be aware that political pundits made up the term 'Obamacare,' that's why it's called Obamacare, lol.

As for Canadian style health care in the US, WHY wouldn't it work. You can't just say 'canada isn't the US, so it won't work' because Sweden isn't Canada either and it works there. The burden of proof is on you to establish why something that works in so many places wouldn't work here, as there is abundant evidence that it COULD work here.
 

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