NOC OC NOC GAME OVER - Now Despair

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I'm back.

I stand by by my belief that BT and Walrein will make good lynch today. And as time goes by, Walrein became a better choice.

At first, I found BT to be contradicting himself. If his original intent was observation, one would seize opportunities to let other post as much as they could. Yet he was so eager to hijack the light from Walrein, clearly he was not interested in seeing how Walrein would respond to my prod. Which led me to believe that BT already knew Walrein's alignment, or is not interested in finding out at all. Either way, it's not good.

It could be that BT was scum and Walrein was not but then Walrein did return the favor, brushing off another of my prod for BT with a joke, then BT did conveniently not answer it till I point out I have him on my list.

Overall, I feel like these two have some form of connection with each other, albeit weak, subconscious even. And flipping one would give us more insight on the other.

As times went by, people have begun taking side in this lynch, which made Walrein became a better choice than BT. His flip will give us much to work with.
 
I'm not quite sure what to make of the whole Lightwolf on MoodyCloud on Walrein interaction, but I find moodycloud to be making less sense between him and lightwolf there.

I've been "scumread" and "scumleaned" by a few people, but the only vote on me so far was a jokevote that's already removed. I don't really have a problem with that, so w.e

Before something stupid (i.e. me forgetting) happens, let's unvote: acidphoenix
 
As we approach deadline at 4pm EST, and I might have to work from 7am until 5pm (definitely 7am-3pm but I have the increasing feeling that I'll be asked to pick up overtime), I'm going to throw my thoughts right now with all that we have.

I would not be okay with a lynch on: Walrein (I don't get any damned arguments that were made on him, and even if I wasn't involved in Cancerous' rationale, I wouldn't buy it. Asek is an outstanding poster who started the attack on Walrein and said he would post why later, and we're at the time where there is no real later if he wants a Walrein lynch to go through), Lightwolf (I think he is becoming more engaged and less cynical with his last few posts, and that points me in a good mood with him), Blazade (Nothing tells me he is playing reserved at all and seems pretty engaged and is largely my biggest gut town read).

I would be okay with a lynch on: Texas (for weird and extremely vague posting habits that don't make logical sense and his explanation feels contrived), Moodycloud (his bandwagon onto the Walrein vote really makes no real sense to me), and pick any of the idlers because besides the two people I have listed, I really don't feel uneasy about any one of the other active posters yet. There are so many inactive fish in a barrel, that there are definitely mafia among them and Day One is largely just a dice roll anyways.


Who I am voting on for the time being: Ethically I kinda hate basing votes on non-game things, I think people asking for subs on Day 1 like Martin did screams more of a Mafia action than a town action. Considering Post #94 where Martin plays the "I'm new" card and then subsequently, at least in his mind, tries to do something helpful for discussion sake... the idea of him quitting feels off.

I know in my mind, if I was mafia and I was having a hard time playing or if I was having activity problems, I would feel more pressure asking for a sub. Especially when Night 1 is around the corner and mafia cahooting being in its peak. I'm going to definitely not want to be a dick and a bad team mate to my mafia buds if I'm not going to give it my all.

Subsequently, if I'm losing motivation to play as village, I'm way more likely to just cut back on activity and not request a sub. Especially because no one is really putting Martin on blast, questioning his activity, or whatever. It just doesn't seem like something I would personally do as village, while it makes all the sense to do as part of the mafia.

It just seems like this action leans a lot more in favor of being something a mafia would do than a village. And for a Day 1 vote, that's all I'm really looking for.

Vote Martin
 
I'd be okay with lynching you because of your weird and extremely vague posting habits that don't make logical sense. I feel your explanation to why you are posting the way that you are as being contrived.

Additionally, while I'd be okay with you getting lynched because of your play, I didn't vote for you and gave a quite detailed explanation of why I am voting for someone.

In retrospect, I should have just thew your name on my list and not included my parenthesis.
 
If it's not abundantly clear what is your weird and extremely vague posting habits, it's you voting for half of the player base throughout the course of the day without a word to why on seemingly anyone. You'd be equally contributing in my mind if you just started posting fun facts about the Blue Jays. And I think you're experienced enough to know this. Not "having free time to post" is a shit excuse. You obviously have the free time to vote for everyone.

The whole issue with it is that it is poor gameplay and you know it is poor gameplay. You playing this way is like some kind of weird reverse psychology experiment. That or you created a role that has to spam votes every page.

Though I have to say, the more you keep repeating the ridiculous behavior, the more I think you're literally just trying to be weird.
 
A) I've voted for what, haruno, walrein, and fort?

Apparently three people is half of a 20+ playerbase

B) do you not understand the concepts of reaction tests and pressure?

Fort is an RVS vote, walrein vote served to generate a town slip and serves it's purpose and I'd really like haruno to start doing something

I would scum read you for this awful, awful reasoning but I legitimately can't imagine scum arguing this badly
 
All that said, I don't mind your reasoning for voting Martin. I don't agree with it and it's not a justification I'd look for in an ideal d1 lynch but the logic behind it is fine even if the tactics are not.
 
Been PM'd by Hitmon saying that subbing is a bit inconvenient due to the nature of the NOC so I'll keep playing I guess. FWIW that was genuinely motivation based (re: ButteredToast) and I simply wasn't feeling it at all for the entire day leading up to that post and I felt that subbing would be more useful to village than me idling, but I'll try my best and it may have just been cause its day one hahaha

I will (actually) read over this later and give whatever thoughts I can then. I'll hop on the wagon for now, although I may end up hopping off again later.

Unvote
Vote Haruno
 
it takes an honest man to sub rather than idle.

was gonna leave haruno at 2 but texas moved off and got better over the course of the evening

unvote vote haruno he's way below par and flying under the radar at the moment
 
Fort Colorcastle said:
I would like to think I play the same as scum and town, but obviously not.
I haven't played a game on circus before, and in the past 9+ months, any ps game I joined was just claiming cop immediately regardless of role. Even when there's no cop.

So there isn't really any recent (and therefore relevant) data for me to use in answering that question. For non-recent cases, I've played entire nightless vanilla games without checking my role pm (on ps), and managed to scumslip despite thinking I was town.

Thus, regarding myself, I found that question to be laughable. It's pretty much laughable in general tbh
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ur not me mate. u don't get to pull these kind of stunts.

Anyways moving out. Starting off from the rest of page 6 after this.

Moody is going in on walrein because funny = scum? And then LW is buddying up with walrein later. I feel at least one of LW/walrein are scum since this buddy scenario seems odd to say the least. Either that or moody is scum. This whole interaction is weird and def looking into.

page 7
start is still more of LW buddying walrein with moody still trying to go in on supposed suspicions? The whole thing still seems forced, I can see it if moody is something merlin/percival in DN mafia esque where he knows some mafia ahead of time, otherwise this is weird for a town, the other option is he's mafia trying to push a town but it's odd overall.

Fort Colorcastle said:
I assume people know that smogon's search command has the ability to search for a certain user's posts, as well as a checkbox for "this thread only".

Typically, the person making an accusation that "[x person] posted in a certain suspicious manner" has the burden of proof. And analysis.

Note that my "devaluing of scumslips" was part of my point that there isn't really recent and therefore relevant data for me to answer the question about how I act.

The thing about day 1 is that few things are productive, effective, or both. Town legit has 1 piece of public information total, and that's that there's some kind of letter-collecting town role. Which *cough cough* doesn't quite help with alignment indication or scumhunting day 1, because it's doubtful that said lettertaker claims because of important info or something (which I guess they could get?).
Thus, people might as well post townreads (having reasons is better, obviously)

~
Uh... this is a non-bastard game right? I would assume so.
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Tries to end conversation + trying to hop on LW/walrein's dick, seems scummy af. Not to mention him specifically asking leet/internet could be a sign that he's a lie detector or recruiter or something retarded that him trying to hide himself early on by claiming this while he infact has one of these roles (similar to how i cleared myself of being saboteur as early as cycle 2 in official 2).

The fuck is aubisio doing? Is he just posting nothing again and trying to slip through.

KnightsofCydonia said:
LightWolf I'll answer you, but it means the question will be compromised for future use.

My goal for the percentages question to see how much stock players put into scumhunting. That's the backbone of the game and imo the most important Towntool. Even if you aren't a PR, you can still use your brain to suss out scum. With that logic in mind, I try to gauge if players who don't consider scumhunting to be as important as other factors are actually trying to scumhunt. From there, it falls to determining if a player is phoning it in (which then needs to be compared against past behavior, if available, to make a read) or if a player possibly has ulterior motives.

Fort Colorcastle This game is built on player input, which means any level of bastardry is determined by the players. Being familiar with other players' mannerisms and preferences would probably be helpful in gauging how likely it is that there's a role that directly affects the Mods.
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Never ask such a stupid percentage based question again LOL since it isn't NAI for any user as far as I'm concerned.


More of the weird af walrein/lw/moody interaction. Honestly moody is seeming fishier and fishier but it could just be bad town play or mafia trying to bus I guess. I still find the LW + walrein buddying odd and it's either LW is trying to buddy up with walrein (the only "notable" player in this game) or they're both connected aka twins or whatnot. It's still a weird interaction and I feel someone here would make a good day 2 lynch.

Fort Colorcastle said:
I'm not quite sure what to make of the whole Lightwolf on MoodyCloud on Walrein interaction, but I find moodycloud to be making less sense between him and lightwolf there.

I've been "scumread" and "scumleaned" by a few people, but the only vote on me so far was a jokevote that's already removed. I don't really have a problem with that, so w.e

Before something stupid (i.e. me forgetting) happens, let's unvote: acidphoenix
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First line is literally "I'm retarded and idkkkk anything but let's move on! xdxdxdxd", second line is "I've been scumread/scumleaned but you're all dumb because the only person that voted for me unvoted so I'm town!!!!" Hint that doesn't make you town at all.

Random af vote on acid? what the fuck lol


BT makes a very interesting post that I feel is more useful later on but so far it seems townish with his intentions though him somewhat trying to get moody lynched is odd but it was pretty subtle. Thought I feel his post is more useful later on than rn as far as alignment is concerned.

Fort Colorcastle said:
this is almost getting to the point of seeming like a flavor requirement... either that or lynchworthy trolling. Who knows? maybe both.
lynch haruno
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LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO finally showing his colors after weird ass posts aka all his posts were shit and suddenly trying to start a wagon on me? Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa no, he's easily a scum as far as I'm aware. His posts have all been too useless and him trying to push a bus out of nowhere seems very characteristic of someone that doesn't know how I play and something mafia would do.


unvote
vote fort colorcastle

the fuck is this bt + texas convo LOOOL.

Martin going from "Oh I have low motivation to 'hosts say i can't quit' so suddenly i have motivation! YIPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" is damning as all hell It just seems unbelievable as hell and him riding on fort is laughable in itself. I can see him + fort being scumbuddies.

Overall fort is the most obvious scum, martin slipping with his most recent buddying is damning as well. LW + moody + walrein interaction is weird as fuck and it wouldn't surprise me if two of them were scum but I'm almost certain at least one of the three is scum in the order of moody > LW > walrein.
 
Haruno said:
ur not me mate. u don't get to pull these kind of stunts.

Anyways moving out. Starting off from the rest of page 6 after this.

Moody is going in on walrein because funny = scum? And then LW is buddying up with walrein later. I feel at least one of LW/walrein are scum since this buddy scenario seems odd to say the least. Either that or moody is scum. This whole interaction is weird and def looking into.

page 7
start is still more of LW buddying walrein with moody still trying to go in on supposed suspicions? The whole thing still seems forced, I can see it if moody is something merlin/percival in DN mafia esque where he knows some mafia ahead of time, otherwise this is weird for a town, the other option is he's mafia trying to push a town but it's odd overall.


Tries to end conversation + trying to hop on LW/walrein's dick, seems scummy af. Not to mention him specifically asking leet/internet could be a sign that he's a lie detector or recruiter or something retarded that him trying to hide himself early on by claiming this while he infact has one of these roles (similar to how i cleared myself of being saboteur as early as cycle 2 in official 2).

The fuck is aubisio doing? Is he just posting nothing again and trying to slip through.


Never ask such a stupid percentage based question again LOL since it isn't NAI for any user as far as I'm concerned.


More of the weird af walrein/lw/moody interaction. Honestly moody is seeming fishier and fishier but it could just be bad town play or mafia trying to bus I guess. I still find the LW + walrein buddying odd and it's either LW is trying to buddy up with walrein (the only "notable" player in this game) or they're both connected aka twins or whatnot. It's still a weird interaction and I feel someone here would make a good day 2 lynch.



First line is literally "I'm retarded and idkkkk anything but let's move on! xdxdxdxd", second line is "I've been scumread/scumleaned but you're all dumb because the only person that voted for me unvoted so I'm town!!!!" Hint that doesn't make you town at all.

Random af vote on acid? what the fuck lol


BT makes a very interesting post that I feel is more useful later on but so far it seems townish with his intentions though him somewhat trying to get moody lynched is odd but it was pretty subtle. Thought I feel his post is more useful later on than rn as far as alignment is concerned.


LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO finally showing his colors after weird ass posts aka all his posts were shit and suddenly trying to start a wagon on me? Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa no, he's easily a scum as far as I'm aware. His posts have all been too useless and him trying to push a bus out of nowhere seems very characteristic of someone that doesn't know how I play and something mafia would do.


unvote
vote fort colorcastle

the fuck is this bt + texas convo LOOOL.

Martin going from "Oh I have low motivation to 'hosts say i can't quit' so suddenly i have motivation! YIPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" is damning as all hell It just seems unbelievable as hell and him riding on fort is laughable in itself. I can see him + fort being scumbuddies.

Overall fort is the most obvious scum, martin slipping with his most recent buddying is damning as well. LW + moody + walrein interaction is weird as fuck and it wouldn't surprise me if two of them were scum but I'm almost certain at least one of the three is scum in the order of moody > LW > walrein.
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Is it just me or is this entire post just an OMGUS?

Ok to actually reply to things:

ur not me mate. u don't get to pull these kind of stunts.
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Can I just take this as a shitpost? That wasn't a stunt, it was the blunt truth of my mafia situation to clarify a response to a question asking about past tendencies in mafia.

Tries to end conversation + trying to hop on LW/walrein's dick, seems scummy af. Not to mention him specifically asking leet/internet could be a sign that he's a lie detector or recruiter or something retarded that him trying to hide himself early on by claiming this while he infact has one of these roles (similar to how i cleared myself of being saboteur as early as cycle 2 in official 2).
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That was nowhere near trying to end the conversation. Saying that the burden of proof lies with someone who hadn't given proof yet shows that I think he should bring proof forward. I guess agreeing with someone can be "trying to hop on [their] dick", OR... it can also just be agreeing with someone after reading what they wrote. Heck, even you also stated that at least 1 of the three is almost certainly scum, and that the situation is something that you're "def looking into".
And for the question about bastardization, it was literally just because I wanted to know if we could trust that the DX letters go to a town role. Read however far into it as you wish; I won't accompany you.

First line is literally "I'm retarded and idkkkk anything but let's move on! xdxdxdxd", second line is "I've been scumread/scumleaned but you're all dumb because the only person that voted for me unvoted so I'm town!!!!" Hint that doesn't make you town at all.
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The first line was rather wishy-washy, but I did state a position of believing LW about MoodyCloud.
And nowhere did I say that the lack of votes makes me town nor that people are dumb. I said that I don't care about the scumleans because it's not really giving me pressure (it's day 1, and that [active but semi-fillery]'s the way I play.)
I would think it's better to give my thoughts than to just stfu even when I have something to say.

Random af vote on acid? what the fuck lol
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note that that's an unvote from a random lynch way early in the day.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO finally showing his colors after weird ass posts aka all his posts were shit and suddenly trying to start a wagon on me? Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa no, he's easily a scum as far as I'm aware. His posts have all been too useless and him trying to push a bus out of nowhere seems very characteristic of someone that doesn't know how I play and something mafia would do.
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So "player meta" is a good argument for constantly lynching rssp1 instead of contributing? A single vote with reasons behind it isn't "pushing a bus". There's been plenty of votes around, including the post right above mine detailing why he made lynch on Martin.
And how is "characteristic of someone that doesn't know how I play" a mafia alignment indicator? It seems to me more of an indication that you're trying to use player meta (for a player I'm not familiar with) as an excuse for the way you're acting.


Let's face it most of that entire post was ripping on me because I lynched him. He suddenly stops shitposting and makes a huge-ass analytical post decrying the first person of a chain to lynch him, completely ignoring cancerous, the BT + Texas interaction (except for a line saying LOOOOL), people hopping on the wagon, Texas's other posts on page 7, smashlloyd, and probably more.


~~~
Let's try to transition from his posts about me and look at some other things in that post while we're here.
~~~

One thing Haruno did get right was:
The fuck is aubisio doing? Is he just posting nothing again and trying to slip through.
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which echoes walrein's comment saying much the same.

martin said:
Been PM'd by Hitmon saying that subbing is a bit inconvenient due to the nature of the NOC so I'll keep playing I guess. FWIW that was genuinely motivation based (re: ButteredToast) and I simply wasn't feeling it at all for the entire day leading up to that post and I felt that subbing would be more useful to village than me idling, but I'll try my best and it may have just been cause its day one hahaha
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how is that "'hosts say i can't quit' so suddenly i have motivation! YIPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" in any way? No matter how I look at it, it looks like him reluctantly trying to keep the game going and not ruining it because of his lack of motivation. And lol @ calling us scumbuddies because he lynches you as well. Then what about Texas and Blazade?

And finally, Haruno didn't go into particulars about BT's post except saying that it's interesting and more useful later.


/sleep
 
Okay where to start...

Cancerous your reasoning is flawed from the get go because it all started with Walrein calling out your RQS post as directly what is wrong with rqs and then when you asked him to explain what was wrong with your post BT took that as a chance to or present his own take. There was no attack on Walrein there so there was nothing to defend him from, it all boils down to BT having a similar stance as Walrein on RQS.

The Walrein photogenic line also doesn't feel as a defense of BT more like an invitation to scrutinise him. I do however think BT should have responded to that. I think the connection between the two is flimsy at best and more effective on BT than really alignment indicative on Walrein.

I don't really mind BTs no lynch list but the Martin reasoning is farfetched and a time waster not to mention way too easy. If he was subbed most people would just give the sun at least this day to get his shot together about events that have already transpired. At best it's nothing at worst it sets up someone being lynched and judged based on their previous player losing interest. Let's not mention the explanation is way too subjective and only holds water for bts personality.


Onto haruno! Buddying would be defending someone for the sake of defending them. If you want to make the case I'm Buddying Walrein point out where my logic about my problems with Moody's arguments fall apart. I find it unlikely you will after stating you find moody scummier in said interactions.

Now what haruno stated about fort is where the juicy stuff starts. The post is full of misrepresentations of what fort actually said, includes stuff like belittling his opinion on the moody vs me exchange, when it matches the statement made by haruno himself, yet makes it out like fort made no point at all. Or when fort tried to and the me vs moody fight by saying that yeah it is on moody to provide evidence to his case and pointing out the search function that makes it easier for people to verify statements(both of which would extend the convo moody tried to end if anyone). The accusations haruno made feel extremely rushed and highly defensive including saying fort can't make that vote without addressing the actual reasoning or any other vote on themselves. Also fort didn't vote acid, fort unvoted acid. This plus other mistakes make it feel rushed enough to make me suspicious and would vote haruno if not for wanting moody to keep talking and addressing my and others problems that creeped up.
 
I don't really have much to say on this page right now because i cant be bothered digging into harunos post but I will say anybody who is advocating to lynch an idler day 1 is seriously looking in the wrong places from a town perspective and im not opposed to lynching them for suggesting it. The most important thing to get from a day 1 flip is information to base night actions + tomorrows lynch direction from and lynching an idler provides - get this close to 0 information to where your actions should be going tonight, which will lead to overall less information to work with tomorrow.

unvote

I'M going to check when deadline is. I think I've still got time to make my mind up about who is the best target for todays lynch
 
Oh nevermind I don't have that much time

I think walreins the best lynch today

The main basis for this is the basis of Walreins play today has come from what I consider to be playing from the perspective of scum. Its in mafias best interests to actively townread people this early, for when a lynch vote comes around for today townies will generally NOT vote for those that have been town reading them, quite naturally in fact. When walrein finds a scum read, you a supposed townie in his eyes will be inclined to follow him moreso then if he was neutral / scummy on you yes? In fact this is play that mafia will employ quite often. Approaching the game in a way where only a minimal amount (usually 1) person is scumread to ensure that the lynch direction on that person makes supposed sense from their perspective, encouraging those that are being 'townread' to follow along etc... basically buddying but I've gone into it a bit deeper then that and am suggesting it extends to the WHOLE of the playerlist rather then to any individual here.

But I ask what is the goal for you as a town in a NOC? From my perspective, I'm here to establish a large enough circle of clean villagers that the rest of the playerlist becomes largely irrelvant to me and I can lynch whomever from that pool under the knowledge (or should i say assumption) that I have enough villagers I'm certain are clean to make flushing out idlers and the remaining scum fine in end game. Lynch result is irrelevant because I have enough clean people with me that the mafia won't be able to outkill quicker then we can lynch them Obviously this state is rarely if ever achieved, but its a lot healthier to me as a town to actively treat every slot as scum until you actively gain a town read - not the other way around in the purpose of reaching this goal. I don't think theres any real reason for me to declare a town read on anybody yet. Call me paranoid but thats just my approach to this game.

Then theres the whole nature of first day lynches. I think a walrein lynch regardless of result today will provide possibly the greatest amount of information to me out of any of the other lynches I'd pursue today. Knights hasnt actively engaged anybody properly. I think lightwolf is the only person i believe is town at this point, but a walrein flip helps me gain a lot more insight on them as well. Cancerous and ButteredToast both also get a deeper perspective revealed on them from a walrein lynch. I'm not going to bother delving into haruno as to be honest hes just going to say stupid stuff regardless of alignment, and I'm not really getting a lot of fort colorcastles content ideas but I don't think hes a good lynch either. And hell y'all probably have a better idea on what to think about me from a walrein lynch as well.

lynch walrein
I might be able to reevalute my position tomorrow morning. I might not. I cant be bothered timezone converting
 
I'd like to hear how a Walrein lynch affects the perception of those listed depending on if Walrein flips scrum or town.

I find it unlikely you could analyse the results only after he flips, and if the main draw on the Walrein lynch is the insight I certainly want proof this will actually result in useful stuff and not just end up dismissed as wifom the next day.

I will also say I dislike the artificiality of their Walrein lynch when it was forced into the forefront with a simple discussion generating bandwagon and then the discussion around it leading to might as well lynch him rather than someone with less or no interactions.
 
So, Im posting now of all times since I actually have something to contribute to discussion.
Reads:
Lean Scum:
Walrein: Asek has a point. Usually, when person X has a generally good view on Person Y and PUBLICLY announces it, then Person Y can and most possibly reciprocate that view onto the giver. This would translate as:
MoodyCloud said:
Slight scumread on walrein atm because while he seems to be positively contributing to the discussion he is also giving out town reads like it's Christmas.
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.
Former:
Former Hope said:
tbh, no I don't remember paranoia very well so I could be mistaken. But I suppose if I felt motivated tomorrow I could check.

I guess the word I was thinking of, is that your posts are much more aggressive then I recall you being in the last few games we've been in (or I guess I don't think of you as typically aggressive). Aggressiveness itself doesn't really scream scum to me (see: Josh), however it is an easy thing to bandwagon, and worse it's an easy thing to bandwagon for newbie town. Though, I'm not personally scum reading you for it, hence why my vote isn't on you. I just found it unusual and I think it warrants looking back at your posts and inspecting it more closely for fine details, which I plan to do tomorrow after midterms (whoever asked, my midterms are tomorrow morning).

As for backing Asek, tbh, I'm really grateful he broke the RQS as I really didn't want to wade into the useless RQS is bad/isn't bad argument yet I wanted to post something actually productive. I suppose that came off like I was backing him up, but eh, whatever.
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Seemed to cover for Walrein rather than Asek imo. Thinking rn, but lynching you or Walrein would actually confirm Asek is town or not if you flip scum. This applies to Walrein too, though.

Lean Town:
Asek: Haven't been seen scum-slipping so far, and like I said, He makes a big valid point at Walrein, which summed up is called Mirroring, but a problem with using such a tactic here is that it usually goes 50:50 if used with such a large crowd, and I think Walrein didn't know this/forgot or was not actually Mirroring.
That's all. Thank you people. Rest are null for me.
 
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