Oh Hail No! (Offensive Hail)

[biscuitz]

Oh Hail No!

​

So yeah, this is Hail: the only permanent weather in UU and (in my opinion) one of the most under-rated playstyles of the tier. When people think Hail, they think of slow, lumbering Abomasnow/Walrein attempting to stall out the opponent using only Substitute/Protect. THIS DOESN'T WORK. I've never liked Hail-Stall, and was convinced there must be some way of utilizing Hail's 100% accurate Blizzards offensively. After some searching, this is the team I've come up with. It's by no means perfect, but I do enjoy playing with it and it got me to around #270 on the ladder (which isn't too shabby for a new-ish player). Any advice/criticism would be greatly appreciated. Thx :3

Abomasnow

Abomasnow @ Expert Belt
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SAtk / 208 Spd / 48 HP
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ground]​

It wouldn't be much of a Hail team without Abomasnow, and so it's with him I begin my team profile. I'm running a fairly straightforward special set, with max EVs in SAtk to make him hit as hard as possible, and 208 EVs in Spd to ensure he outpaces the more defensive pokes such as Togekiss, defensive Suicune and Gligar. The Remaining EVs are dumped into HP for bulk. As for attacks, Focus Blast and HP-Ground hit the Steel, Fire, Poison, Electric and Ice types that resist his two special STABs, as well as ensuring that he can hit Umbreon and Snorlax as they switch in. Expert Belt aims to make the most of this good type-coverage, by providing a little added power without the cost of HP/being choice-locked, as Abomasnow's awful defensive typing means he needs all the health he can get, as he HATES having to repeatedly switch out and then in again.
​

Rotom-F

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Trick​

The answer to Hail's lack of offensive presence lies before you, all the way from the deepest depths of NU. Rotom-F possesses base 105 SAtk, which when combined with a nifty 86 speed and STAB on both Blizzard and Volt Switch make him a perfect fit for a Hail Scarfer. Moreover, his defenses far exceed that of most other Choice Scarf users, with a cool 107 in Def/SDef, AND he can outspeed Choice Scarf Heracross! He also has a handy immunity to spikes/toxic spikes, allowing him to outspeed and revenge kill with Volt Switch without taking any residual damage. Trick can be used to cripple any special walls that are giving him trouble, whilst granting him the freedom of move selection. All in all, he's a pretty powerful late-game threat provided you give him a partner that can kill the Rock/Steel/Fire types that resist his STABs. *cough* Mienshao *cough*
​

Mienshao

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Hasty Nature
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]​

LO-Mienshao and Rotom-F work wonders together. The former runs round tearing holes in teams whilst healing off any hail/hazard damage with Regenerator, whilst the latter cleans up the mess left behind, either with a Volt Switch revenge kill or a late game Blizzard sweep. This set is fairly simple, and is lifted straight from Smogon. I don't run Fake-Out because I'm not an idiot.
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Swampert

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Swampert @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 240 HP / 16 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock​

I've always loved Swampy: decent bulk, good offenses, with stealth rock support and only a single weakness. This is the standard offensive set used to lay hazards, maintain momentum and kill off other SR-users, as well as Scarf Mienshao and Scarf Flygon, both of whom cause the rest of my team trouble. Like Abomasnow, poor Swampy rarely makes it through the match, but the hits he deals and the rocks he sets are invaluable to my team.
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Chandelure

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Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 SDef / 128 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick​

The third and final special attacker on my team: Choice Specs Chandelure. It hits like a truck that's on fire and driven by ghosts. Yep. For seriously though, it kills pretty much anything slower than it, and players don't seem to realize that switching their Roserade out for their Blastoise is an INCREDIBLY obvious play and will ALWAYS result in the death of said Blastoise. It's not unique, it's not clever, it's not gimmicky...it just causes opposing pokes pain. Simples.​

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Crobat

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 136 HP / 4 SDef / 232 Atk / 136 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Roost​

Last but not least is Crobat. Like Swampy, I have been using him pretty much since I started UU and I have never stopped loving him for his sheer utility and abilty to check fighting, bug and grass type attackers, all of whom are as common as dirt. He is my dedicated anti-lead, and even at 1600+ ranking players still attempt to use their Rhyperior to set up SR against him on the first turn. TAUNT IS A MOVE PEOPLE. Regardless, he is my answer to anything that's acting too stall-ish (read Umbreon) as well as Ambipom, who is awful.

And that brings this RMT to a close, congrats if you've read my ramblings all the way through and please feel free to suggest changes that you think would make the team better. Abomasnow, Rotom-F and Mienshao are kinda my core, so I'm not really looking to replace them, but if you think you can genuinely think of a better alternative I'm all ears.
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TRY ROTOM-F!!!​

 

[Patrick1088]

Very good hail team! Welcome to smogon! Just a few points
1. Abomasnoe i have no problem with just a preference of mixed or even choice specs on asnow.
2. Rotom f looks good too. You even out the 4 sp def evs to prevent a p2 or pz boost.
3. Mienshao is good no complaints.
4. Swampert is a great poke BUT i feel that your team can try something different. Have you tried eviolite piloswine with thick fat? Its ice/ground coverage is similar to swampy but it has icicle spear to easily destroy zapdos who threatens most hail teams with heat wave sub roost etc. Also piloswine can tank most special hits from zapdos amd raikou better than swampy since a lot of them are carrying hp grass now.
4. Crobat is ALMOST perfect. The jolly nature and 136 spd evs iz to outpace max speed 115 pokes like raikou amd azelf. Change it to jolly nature.
5. Chandy is very goox in this meta and i have a better set for you. You have a faster revenge killer in rotom f. You have a potent special attacker in asnow with more coverage moves. If you look at your team it will struggle against snorlax once shao is gone. Crobat is okay but can be koed easily between sr anx hail and bb recoil. I recommend trying subsplit chandy in place of your current choice specs version. Lo and hail makes pain split more powerful hurting lax. Subztitute gives you protection from being pursuit trapped. Since most people run choice chandy, it makes the subsplit set more difficult to counter.
Other than that good team!

 

[Patrick1088]

Note why that ev apread on crobat?

 

[biscuitz]

Very good hail team! Welcome to smogon! Just a few points
1. Abomasnoe i have no problem with just a preference of mixed or even choice specs on asnow.

I didn't like Specs, simply because so many pokes resist his STABs that once he becomes locked into a move, he is often forced to switch after a single turn. Also, the ability to switch moves is nice on this set as he has so much good coverage.

4. Swampert is a great poke BUT i feel that your team can try something different. Have you tried eviolite piloswine with thick fat? Its ice/ground coverage is similar to swampy but it has icicle spear to easily destroy zapdos who threatens most hail teams with heat wave sub roost etc. Also piloswine can tank most special hits from zapdos amd raikou better than swampy since a lot of them are carrying hp grass now.

Nice, I'll look into that.

4. Crobat is ALMOST perfect. The jolly nature and 136 spd evs iz to outpace max speed 115 pokes like raikou amd azelf. Change it to jolly nature.

Woops, genuine mistake on my part, I'll fix that.

5. Chandy is very goox in this meta and i have a better set for you. You have a faster revenge killer in rotom f. You have a potent special attacker in asnow with more coverage moves. If you look at your team it will struggle against snorlax once shao is gone. Crobat is okay but can be koed easily between sr anx hail and bb recoil. I recommend trying subsplit chandy in place of your current choice specs version. Lo and hail makes pain split more powerful hurting lax. Subztitute gives you protection from being pursuit trapped. Since most people run choice chandy, it makes the subsplit set more difficult to counter.
Other than that good team!

Again, I'll try this set out.

Note why that ev apread on crobat?

Just to hit harder really. I was using the standard set but then switched to this one, and as I didn't notice a drastic decrease in its ability to take hits I decided to keep it. I'd recommend trying it if you haven't already.

 

[Iminyourcloset]

Hello there! I humbly welcome you to Smogon ;)
Very impressive team here.
Just a couple more minor things, though:

Consider Leftovers > Ebelt on Abomasnow. That could A) let him have a little bit of survivability (stupid SR), and B) could bluff a defensive set in the right scenario (although A is the main point.) But I don't use him often, so idk. Ebelt can only do so much (I mean, it only boosts SE moves. /shrug).

Considering you have at least three users of Ice moves on your team, does Mienshao really need HP Ice? I suggest you could put Drain Punch > HP Ice there so you have a reliable fighting type move, and so Mienshao can have an added a smidge of survivability.

Piloswine, while I don't use it personally, I've heard is very good, so I second Patrick. No Lefties recovery (Eviolite), but since Swampert's lefties get cancelled anyway, meh. Piloswine > Swampert is an option to try out.

Since you already have Rotom-F and Abomasnow, if you don't think you need Specs Chandelure, I would suggest changing it to the SubSplit Chandy set on its Smogdex Page. It's very nifty in the sense that it's still strong but behind a sub and with semireliable recovery, it's verrrrrry dangerous, even despite the limited coverage.

Suggestions/Changes:

Hide

Abomasnow @ Leftovers

Mienshao @ Life Orb
HP Ice ->Drain Punch

->

Swampert -> Piloswine (Look for set on forums or something. Usually Max HP/Max Attack IcicleSpear/EQ/SR/Filler)

Chandelure @ Life Orb
Trait:Flame Body
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 184 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
-Substitute
-Pain Split
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I hope I helped! ;)​

 

[biscuitz]

Hello there! I humbly welcome you to Smogon ;)

Consider Leftovers > Ebelt on Abomasnow. That could A) let him have a little bit of survivability (stupid SR), and B) could bluff a defensive set in the right scenario (although A is the main point.) But I don't use him often, so idk. Ebelt can only do so much (I mean, it only boosts SE moves. /shrug).

I hope I helped! ;)​

I found Giga Drain to be just as effective as Lefties in terms of healing up SR damage, and (as I said before) Abomasnow can hit the majority of pokes for super-effective damage and so really appreciates being given an E-Belt.

 

[Psychotic]

==>

Currently, your team is wrecked by any form of Kingdra. The Dragon Dance set can set up on Choice-locked Chandelure and sweep you because Swampert doesn't carry Roar, you have to sac a pokemon every time Choice Specs comes out, and the Rain Dance set sweeps you clean once Abomasnow is gone. You should replace Swampert with Offensive SR Empoleon, which will significantly lessen your Kingdra weakness, while at the same time putting offensive pressure on the opponent by spamming Blizzard and Hydro Pump. Having a reliable Kingdra check is more important than keeping Swampert imo, you can't really play around it because it can just spam Draco Meteor and everything dies. I would recommend using Aqua Jet over Grass Knot on this set, which allows you to beat leads such as Azelf and Crustle 1v1, as well as revenge killing weakened fire types.

If you make the previous change, you should make one other changes to help combat the one threat that Swampert was most important in stopping: Scarf Darmanitan. Replacing Hidden Power Ice with Fake Out on Mienshao would help with this a lot: between hail, Stealth Rock, Fake Out damage, and Flare Blitz recoil, Darmanitan will pretty much get one or two chances at most to attack before it dies. You have plenty of stuff to deal with Gligar anyway, and Fake Out comes in handy against Rain Dance Kingdra as well, allowing you to stall out a few turns of rain before it fades.

The last suggestion I have is to replace your current Abomasnow set with Swords Dance Abomasnow. Your team would benefit a ton from this, because it lures in a ton of pokemon that wall your team, and destroys them. The most common switch-ins to Abomasnow are Umbreon, Snorlax, and Fire-types, all of whom get nuked by a +2 Wood Hammer. Earthquake wrecks Fire Type switch-ins, and Ice Shard gives you even more security against Flygon. Being able to lure in Umbreon and Snorlax and eliminate them is amazing, because it allows both your Chandelure and Rotom-F to spam their powerful moves and sweep. Even with Focus Blast, your current Abomasnow can't really break through these walls, and also doesn't do enough to fire type switch-ins with HP Ground.

Suggested Changes:

Hide

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Blizzard
- Stealth Rock
- Aqua Jet

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Fake Out
- U-turn

Abomasnow @ Expert Belt
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 Atk / 44 HP / 212 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Hope this helps!

 

[An-94]

Well Any Mienshao without HP ice is walled by Low gliscor which loves switching in on you, your rocking Regen which means the HP you'll get from drain punch that'll be lost due to the weather or even if the poke lives and hits back is useless. Try switching Chandel for a CB Golurk with Eq Shadow punch Drain Punch stealth rock. you can lead and get SR then after that you can do what you please, also using golurk gives you a decent fighting check and his natural bulk means he can take a hit then hit back with a CB drain punch which hits pretty hard and will get you enough HP back.
Also the only obama I even find usable is the Ebelt set but if you don't want to run that then idk.Change that funny Crobat set to either Bulky bat with infiltrator or standard taunt bat because your set is... well idk what you're trying to do with it but with those ev's its outspeed by base 75s wit scarfs which is a no no and you want to keep momentem

 

[biscuitz]

Well Any Mienshao without HP ice is walled by Low gliscor which loves switching in on you, your rocking Regen which means the HP you'll get from drain punch that'll be lost due to the weather or even if the poke lives and hits back is useless. Try switching Chandel for a CB Golurk with Eq Shadow punch Drain Punch stealth rock. you can lead and get SR then after that you can do what you please, also using golurk gives you a decent fighting check and his natural bulk means he can take a hit then hit back with a CB drain punch which hits pretty hard and will get you enough HP back.
Also the only obama I even find usable is the Ebelt set but if you don't want to run that then idk.Change that funny Crobat set to either Bulky bat with infiltrator or standard taunt bat because your set is... well idk what you're trying to do with it but with those ev's its outspeed by base 75s wit scarfs which is a no no and you want to keep momentem

I have enough Ice-type moves on my team that Gligar usually dies pretty quickly, so I'm following PsYch071c's suggestion of replacing HP-Ice with Fake-out, and so far it's worked well. I'm struggling to see why I need Golurk, my team deals pretty well with fighting-types in general, as Rotom-F can outspeed and KO Scarf Heracross and LO Mienshao and I can usually predict my way around Scarf Mienshao as sensible players won't even think of using HJK until Chandy dies. Again, going off what PsYch071c said, I've changed my A-Snow set to the SD variant, mainly because I needed to maintain the balance of 3 physical attackers and 3 special attackers. This A-Snow set dies faster but hits harder, as he misses the regen from Giga Drain but LOVES the extra power of a +2 Wood Hammer, even with 33% recoil. As for Crobat, he has the exact same speed EVs as the standard Smogon set, with the only change being +40 EVs in Atk and -40 EVs in HP. It's honestly not that weird. I exchange a little bulk for a little more power, it's a personal choice and it's always worked well for me.

I WILL UPDATE THE OP WITH THE CHANGES I HAVE MADE TO THE TEAM IN A FEW DAYS, ONCE I'VE FINISHED TESTING SOME SHIZZLE-WIZZLE.

 

[biscuitz]

Change of plan, just gonna add them in a new post instead.

Abomasnow @ Life Orb
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 Atk / 44 HP / 212 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard​

This change was mainly made to maintain my 3:3 ratio of special and physical attackers, as replacing Swampy with Empoleon upset the balance a little. As mentioned before, this set tends to die sooner than the previous one, as his main STAB of choice has some fairly nasty recoil and he does miss the extra HP stolen with Giga Drain. However, it's not all doom and gloom as he more than often has an opportunity to set-up a SD on the switch to a special wall/a poke that isn't Swampy or Ryperior, after which he can really go to town, soundly 2HKOing even defensive Cofagrigus after stealth rocks. All in all, I reckon it's a pretty even trade. Credit to PsYch071c.

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
[No change]

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Fake Out
- U-turn​

Just a minor change here. HP-Ice is replaced by Fake-Out, as I have more than enough Ice-type moves on my team and between Fake-Out and hail damage, I can chip away at my opponent's pokes every time mienshao switches in. This is probably the only time I'd use Fake-Out though, as on other teams it's kinda meh. Credit to Patrick1088 for the idea of scrapping HP-Ice and to PsYch071c for the suggestion of using Fake-Out.
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Empoleon @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Blizzard
- Stealth Rock
- Aqua Jet​

Bye-bye Swampy, hello Empoleon. This guy's secondary steel typing gives my team a nice set of resistances, namely to Dragon, Ghost, Dark and Psychic type attacks, whilst still doing all the things Swampert could. It's also fun netting a cheap KO on weakened pokes with Aqua Jet, and is probably my favourite way of eliminating Choice Scarf Darmanitan. Credit to PsYch071c for this set, although I'd like to thank Patrick1088 for his suggestion of Piloswine, unfortunately it added only weaknesses, not resistances to this team.
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Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick
[No change]

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 136 HP / 4 SDef / 232 Atk / 136 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Roost
[No change]​

 

[Moose V]

Couple things:
1 Give empoleon 88 speed EVs to outpseed hitmontop/umbreon and maybe a few other things. You could also go 212 to outpseed suicune/gligar.

2 SD Ab needs life orb to get a guranteed ohko on umreon at +2, otherwise umbreon lives the hit and finished it off with foul play. Running expert belt on a SD set makes no sense cuz the whole point is to bluff scarf/band which doesn't work when you SD.

3 120 HP EVs on chandy isn't really worth it considering you get outspeed by nidoqueen, max speed honch, max speed bisharp, 0 speed mew, 0 speed zapdos, and max speed scrafty. I'd go 252 spe 252 spA