OM Team Study! [Week 1: Balanced Hackmons ft. Arcticblast]

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by BlankZero, Jun 11, 2013.

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VOTE FOR NEXT WEEK'S METAGAME

Poll closed Jun 18, 2013.
  1. Smogon Standard Doubles

    10 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. CAP

    3 vote(s)
    6.0%
  3. Balanced Hackmons

    5 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. PU

    15 vote(s)
    30.0%
  5. Tier Shift

    7 vote(s)
    14.0%
  6. STABmons

    10 vote(s)
    20.0%
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  1. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Approved by Arcticblast

    OM Team Study
    Certain thread components and idea from Melee Mewtwo!
    Format (and much of the wording) stolen from Princess Bri's OU thread of the same title.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Welcome to the OM Team Study. The goal of this project is to help unite the community while improving the overall quality of the playerbase by studying the art of teambuilding at the highest level.

    What is this for?
    This project was shamelessly stolen from Melee Mewtwo. Princess Bri created an OU thread of the same type, and PsYch071c created one for UU. I stole the format from them and am just changing basic things to make it make more sense for the OM Subforum, which gets a ton of traffic already, but the ladders are less than stellar, which is frustrating for those of us who enjoy these games. The basic idea of this thread is to look at a high level player's team under the microscope and see what the community can find and learn from each team. Discussing a team helps not only you learn and think about it, but the fellow OM'rs who are new can learn by reading your post. It is a win-win situtation! Additionally, you are supplied with high-level teams to take ideas from if you like a build, and it gives us a look at what is "good" in the high-stakes Tournament metagame. This will also give new players the building blocks necessary to get themselves started in a new metagame, without the awkwardness of not even knowing where to start.

    How does it work?
    Each week (more or less) there will be a high-level team from one of the more popular metagames (as evidenced by forum activity) that will be displayed for the community as a whole to discuss. The aim of this discussion will be to analyze the team by identifying roles and explaining their purpose, investigating specific movesets and Pokemon choices, strong points of the team, flaws it may have and even questions concerning unusual or confusing aspects. Essentially, the team will serve as a model to learn from and an example to refer to. Once the discussion is over, the teambuilder will post explaining his decisions and answering any questions or false ideas concerning them. This will also allow newer players to the OM scene to get an idea of how different Metagames are played, as well as learn new strategies, new Pokemon niches, etc.

    What do I get out of it?
    • Good posting can result in nominations for a Ladybug or Community Contributor badge depending on your work in the OM subforum.
    • A good look at current tournament teams and trends.
    • Insight on how teams are built and more knowledge of the different Other Metagames out there.
    • There may be another prize or so, but it's still not worked out yet. Don't let this discourage you, however.
    • A good, intelligent thread!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    Week 1's Metagame is Balanced Hackmons!

    Week 1's team is provided by Arcticblast! Let's cut it up, shall we?

    This is a trial team for Week 1 that some players may recognize. Please vote for next week's metagame in the poll above. After this week, the winning Metagame will not be voted for again for the following 4-5 weeks, to allow a good rotation of games being showcased.

    Week 1: Arcticblast's Balanced Hackmons Team
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Importable (open)

    Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry
    Trait: No Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Magic Coat
    - Skill Swap
    - Taunt
    - Magma Storm

    Shaymin-Sky @ Icicle Plate
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Judgment
    - Giga Drain
    - Earth Power
    - Quiver Dance

    Regirock @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Heal Order
    - Stealth Rock
    - Magic Coat
    - U-turn

    Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Close Combat
    - Sacred Fire
    - Magic Coat

    Blissey (F) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Imposter
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Wish
    - Aromatherapy
    - Sandstorm
    - Volt Switch

    Shuckle @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Unaware
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SAtk / 0 Spd
    - Foul Play
    - Leech Seed
    - Spikes
    - Recover


    Some things to consider are:
    • What do think was the main/inspiring idea/goal Arcticblast had when building this team?
    • Is there a discernible core that he tried to build around?
    • What are the strong points of the team?
    • What are the weak spots?
    • How could his use of certain EV/Moveset/Abilities twists help his team vs specific threats or archetypes?
    • How does he use some underrated threats to give his team an advantage?
    • Just about anything else you might want to comment on or ask about.
  2. Mizuhime

    Mizuhime Last dance with Mary Jane, one more time to kill the pain
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

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    At the time of the creation of the time (a very long time ago), Imposter Chansey/Blissey were running wilde. The teams set up sweeper in skymin helped this team rip apart teams because the 2 thought they could come in and copy boosts, but they would quickly eat a Ice Plate Judgment leaving a giant hole in opposing teams and making it very easy to sweep or clean up with Kyurem-B. The one weak point I found well using this team was the threat of opposing hazards. If your opponent managed to get hazards up it put lots of pressure on you, due to 3 rock weaknesses and only 1 immunity to spikes, Damage stacked up very quick if you played it wrong

    edit: the version of the team I used had prankster Rhydon with heart swap nature power, stone edge and baton pass, and a Eviolite Imposter Chansey > deoxys and blissey respectively
  3. Doolez

    Doolez

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    Great team. Does seem like it was designed a while back when Imposter Blissey/Chansey was in vogue. I've never used it but it seems like the idea is to trap an opposing Deoxys-Speed lead with Magma Storm, and switch into Shaymin-Sky who can bounce back their Spore/hazards. Shaymin-Sky then sets up on the hapless Deoxys-Speed and proceeds to attempt a sweep. Imposter Blissey/Chansey is then sent in as it was everyone's counter to a boosting sweeper, but Giga Drain and Earth Power do nothing to Shaymin-Sky who in turn blasts off an Ice Plate Judgement crippling the Imposter. If Shaymin-Sky is taken down, sand is set up with Regirock, allowing Kyurem-Black to come in for a late-game sweep. Unaware Shuckle with it's bulk in sand is there to stop the opponents boosting sweepers. Imposter Blissey is always welcome on a Balanced Hackmons team.

    On first glance I imagine hazards are the biggest danger to this team. Shuckle, Kyurem-Black and Shaymin-Sky all take big damage from rocks while having no Rapid Spin support. Personally, I would consider Rapid Spin on Regirock over Magic Coat considering he is holding a Lum Berry.

    Another idea is maybe running Unburden over Sand Rush on Kyurem-Black and replacing the Life Orb with a Dragon/Fighting/Fire gem. The extra damage from Life Orb isn't really needed (correct me if I'm wrong) and can result in this Kyurem-Black being worn down quickly. Also, this gives it an advantage over opposing Imposter Pokemon. Instead of having a speed tie, you are guaranteed to be faster if you've lost your gem. That is unless their Blissey has no item, but that's just stupid. Also because of the extra speed, Substitute over Magic Coat is an option.
  4. Doolez

    Doolez

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    Also, why can't we vote for Hackmons in the poll :(
  5. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Hackmons has been dropping heavily in usage as of late. If it makes a comeback, I'll consider it for week 3, but I'll need to chat with Arcticblast about it. This is more of a trial week to gauge interest and from there I'll mess with the Metagame List. Level 1 and 1V1 got nixed this week as well, as well as the Pet Mods like Gen-Next/Joimmons/Duskmod.

    Great posts Doolez and Eggy! Keep it up folks!
  6. SpartanMalice

    SpartanMalice

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    While I wasn't around when this team was made it looks like a solid team on paper, what with Shaymin-Sky being a fantastic counter to opposing Imposter Blissey, which I've found to be quite annoying sometimes. Shuckle with Unaware is a great idea as well, although it does take damage from rocks if the opposing Deo-D manages to set that up before Shaymin is sent out after Magma Storm. But with Leech Seed and recover, I don't think that's much of a problem since it can tank any hits thrown at it, and Kyurem-B won't be outsped in Sand by much anyway so it doesn't need to worry about hazards either. Shaymin's similar because of 127 base speed, but if it gets a boost in it can wreck things anyway. As Doolez said, Rapid Spin on one of the defensive pokes is a good idea. Other than that though this team is perfect.

    I voted for Stabmons because that's what I've been playing as of late, and there's some interesting things in there.
  7. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    You don't have to announce your vote lol. I didn't make it public because it doesn't matter who voted for what lol. You can only vote once though.
  8. SpartanMalice

    SpartanMalice

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    Oh alright. I'm used to doing that in forums normally so yeah. I kinda find it weird that Hackmons has been dropping in usage though. I'd expected it to be more popular...
  9. Doolez

    Doolez

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    Ahh yeah it doesn't surprise me you say Hackmons has been dropping in usage lately, I have started to notice that. I just wanted to vote Hackmons because I wouldn't mind submitting my own team :)

    But back on topic, I would be interested to see how this team would cope with a Prankster Heart Swap after Shaymin-Sky is set up. Would Unaware Shuckle be able to handle a special attacker using water attacks for example? I have noticed a lot of rain-based teams lately. Or is this why Imposter Blissey is in the team?
  10. SpartanMalice

    SpartanMalice

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    Given that blissey is holding a Lum Berry, I'd assume it would take care of that, and most of these pranksters carry Spore as well. I'm pretty sure Prankster Rhydon carries Heart Swap and Spore. Whether it's Spore or any other status, Blissey can absorb it with Lum Berry and then force that status right back into the opposing poke. However whether it could actually take it down depends I guess, if it's forced into a similar situation as the opposing Blissey did against Shaymin. In any case, Kyurem should be able to take care of it if Blissey can't, since Quiver Dance boosts Special stats.
  11. PattyP

    PattyP

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    So I know a lot of you are concerned about the hazards. Which is a really good point because there is a problem with the deo-s. So obviously it has a lot of options first turn, whether to coat or taunt really. If it fails to do that and just goes straight for the trap then it is possible for them to get free rocks up. Then if you decide to taunt first turn they can just switch out so you can no longer trap something worth trapping. Id say the best thing you could do it trap first turn hoping they spore so you wake up. Then you go straight into shay to bounce back anything. I do however see a lot of mold breaker leads or teravolt so that is all kind of situation but im assuming that was his idea. So spin support would def help this team out
  12. SpartanMalice

    SpartanMalice

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    Mold Breaker doesn't affect No Guard though, AFAIK. Also, opposing Deoxys-S almost always go for Taunt themselves in the first turn, which when faced with a speed tie might cause Deoxys trouble. If you can predict well and trap it, you can switch safely to Shaymin.
  13. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Resident OM designer/curator/defiler extraordinaire
    is a Community Contributor

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    I like this team. It has some powerful attackers, good support, fail-safes, and complementing strategies. Here's what I think:

    The overall theme I see in this team is anti-meta. First, ArcticBlast wants to screw over the opponent's lead. Second, protect against ImposterBliss/Chansey. Third, break Sturdy Shedinja. And fourth, use Sand to the team's advantage to buff Unaware Shuckle and outpace most Contrarymons with Sand Rush Kyu-B.

    The core I see consists of special attacker Shaymin-Sky and physical attacker Kyu-B.
    • Shaymin-Sky, as noted already, runs a set to completely check Imposter. Should Shaymin be copied, the opponent cannot hurt it with Earth Power, does 1/4 damage with Giga Drain, and Judgment becomes Normal while Shaymin's is still Ice and hits for x4 damage. Magic Bounce blocks status, Taunt, Prankster shuffle, and hazards, something this team is weak to.
    • Adamant Kyu-B flies past every Pokemon except max base Speed 127 with a Choice Scarf/+1 or higher (Kyu-B: 578 vs 127 +1: 582). As such he checks Contrary users with +1 Speed after V-create like Dialga (with Close Combat) or Reshiram and other Kyu-B (with Outrage). Sacred Fire works nicely with Dragon and Fighting, hitting everything at least neutrally, but most for super-effective damage.

    The other Pokemon are built to help this core. Regirock initiates Sand, generates momentum, and sets hazards--something crucial to offense. He ensures Sturdy Shedinja does not wall this team, but there's still the chance of Sacred Fire's burn, Leech Seed and Spikes. (However, Kyu-B does not want Endeavor bringing it down and later causing a self KO with Life Orb and Shuckle does not want to lose 99% of its health.)
    Shuckle sponges all hits with Unaware and a huge Special Defense under Sand, shrugging off Contrary, and taking virtually no super effective damage other than the rare Water, Rock, and Steel.
    Blissey is the other fail-safe and almost obligatory when this team was popular.

    And this brings us to the lead and the start of my criticisms.
    Deoxys-S, the go-to for leads in BH, is running No Guard, a nice ability that affects the attacker and defender, giving it a field effect of sorts. This is where Skill Swap kicks in. Once No Guard has been swapped with the other lead's more appealing Magic Bounce, Prankster, or Mold Breaker, ArcticBlast's Deoxys-S can hit it with Magma Storm, trapping it.
    But a couple of things need to work for that to happen. First of all, Taunt/Spore must be predicted and shot back with Magic Coat, which is kind of a given on turn 1. Unless their lead runs Substitute first, which of course will block a bounced back Spore on turn 2. But they also may begin to setup, in which case a turn 2 Magic Coat is useless. If you predict that and Taunt, you better hope they're not Magic Bounce. And if they're Prankster, well they're already one step ahead of you.
    Basically, No Guard Deoxys falls into the high risk/high reward category IMO. Sometimes it screws them up, but it requires a lot of things to happen correctly, and the gamut of opening leads that can check it is filled with common strategies. The typical Magic Bounce->Prankster->Mold Breaker trio is what I'm referring to. Whereas those leads have utility throughout the game, this No Guard build is designed for openings, and if it fails to get that right, it isn't going to help much later on. Had it Sing/sleep in general, Zap Cannon/Inferno, or another strategy to fall back on it could be useful later.
    Luckily, the rest of the team isn't relying on it for too much. Kyu-B just wants Sand Stream and Shaymin-Sky does work regardless.

    My other criticism rests on the attackers. Kyu-B, simply because it doesn't run Sub to block Imposter or Prankster Spore and can 2HKO Regirock and Shuckle after SR if copied; and Shaymin-Sky, because Grass/Ice/Ground is okay coverage but not great. It fails to do much to the Kyurems, who can annihilate it and Ho-oh, who attacks physically and with super effective Fire and Flying. Ho-oh might not be hugely popular, but both Kyurems are.
    +1 252+ SpA Icicle Plate Shaymin-S Judgment (Ice) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyurem-B: 172-203 (37.88 - 44.71%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (82.42% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
    +1 252+ SpA Icicle Plate Shaymin-S Judgment (Ice) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyurem-W: 161-190 (35.46 - 41.85%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (78.52% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
    +1 252+ SpA Icicle Plate Shaymin-S Judgment (Ice) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ho-Oh: 119-140 (28.6 - 33.65%) -- possible 4HKO (guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock)

    Obviously SR helps, though, so as long as you get that up early, Shaymin has a good chance.

    Speaking of hazards, my third biggest criticism is there is no Spin support. Stealth Rock hurts the main attackers. Besides Giga Drain or Wish, they don't have recovery. SR also hurts one of the walls, Shuckle, but he is still pretty okay with Leech Seed and Recover. Rapid Spin could fit on Regirock and SR could go to Shuckle, or replace Spikes with Rapid Spin on Shuckle, dropping Spikes either way. Or if both hazards are desired, giving Rapid Spin to Blissey over Sandstorm is an option. But then the team struggles if Sand is replaced after Regirock dies.
    I think the SR weakness warrants Rapid Spin support, however, regardless of who gets it.

    I should also note the purposeful lowered Attack IVs. My impression is it works to reduce Foul Play's power, especially on Deoxys who is weak to it.

    Overall, this team is pretty solid, even if the lead misplays. The opening requires careful prediction, but the rest can function should that not work out. It's very anti-meta and handles big threats that were popular in its inception.
  14. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Super-Long (open)



    This is probably the best post so far and I can't wait to see more. Great job folks!
  15. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    There's just a couple days til this is over and we start a new week folks. So far, PU is winning, but Doubles and STABmons are close enough that I can't call it yet. Keep those votes coming in!

    I'll be adding Pure Hackmons to next week's vote, and BH will not be on there, nor will the winner this week.

    If you have a PU, Doubles, or STABmons team you would like to have put up on display, please shoot me a PM with the team in Importable Format, as well as which Metagame it is for. I'll put up one of them next week.
  16. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Well, Week 1 is over! Looks like PU won the vote, so it'll be up a bit later. Please note that BH AND PU will not be available to vote on for the next couple of weeks, so make sure to vote for Week 3 when it goes up!

    Thanks for the great write ups folks! I'll see if Arcticblast can do a brief writeup of his team in the meantime. Good work, and keep it up next week!
  17. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast improsin + bapongbas gg,,,,,,
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Other Metas Leader

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    You know what I think I'll just make this my 3k post instead of a doubles RMT

    This is the rather well-known (at this point) team that I made an RMT out of several months ago, which can be found here. As far as the actual teambuilding itself goes, a user whose name I can't remember was discussing sand in BH back when PS was in private beta. I don't remember what happened to him, but I was intrigued and made myself a Sand team too, and if I can remember correctly it was something like Sand Stream Scarf Dialga, Prankster Groudon, hazard lead Deoxys, Unaware Tyranitar, Sand Rush Kyogre, and probably an ImposterBliss. The team started out pretty bad, but in a move rarely seen from me, I slowly altered the team to deal with threats I saw more, and the team pushed on through the end of the Huge Power era. At this point is when BW2 was released, bringing the powerful new formes we all know and love, and Judgment sweepers became the new big thing. In the meantime, I'd changed out several Pokemon (no more Groudon, Regirock > Dialga, Shuckle > Tyranitar), but with all of the new changes I had to use some of them. Additionally, the metagame was shifting more towards Contrary than it was before, so Kyogre was underperforming against the now-common Dragon-types. Enter Kyurem-B, the nuke that I absolutely could not part with on this team. I went through a few different movesets and the like, but the sheer power and versatility that Life Orb gave it won out. And since Judgment Gengar seemed so appealing, I decided to bring in a Judgment attacker of my own. I started, believe it or not, with some sort of Arceus (which ended up dropping Judgment, LOL), but that wasn't giving me results. At the time, I also completely lacked Magic Bounce, and my only Magic Coat users were Deoxys-S and Regirock. I decided that I'd give Shaymin a shot, and boy was it amazing. The immunity to Ground was a huge boon against Prankster Groudon (Rhydon wasn't big until late into this team's career), especially with STAB Giga Drain destroying it and restoring my own HP. Earth Power was my Steel-hitting move (I idiotically went with Blue Flare first, heh), and Icicle Plate Judgment hit Dragons and Imposter Blissey. I slowly found that Deoxys-S was doing pretty badly, unfortunately, since everyone was prepared for the standard Deo-S lead. I had the idea of No Guard Magma Storm, and decided to run it for a while, and it did a lot better than I thought it would end up doing, messing with Deoxys-S leads and Contrary leads at the same time. Magma Storm was also a fun move to use, especially in the Sand, where every time it used it the opponent lost an extra ~12% of its health.

    As for the team itself, everyone has basically said how it works already, which is pretty neat - Eevee General pretty much hit the nail on the head, although sometimes Shaymin-S ended up being my win condition while Kyurem-B was dead from something I totally didn't expect. As for his comment on Imposter Blissey destroying me when it copied Kyurem-B... yeah. My only real way to handle it was to send in Regirock and hope it didn't destroy it, slow U-Turn to Shuckle, and stall with Leech Seed + Recover.

    I think this thread has gone incredibly well, and can't wait to see how the next one turns out! (Holy fuck Agent Dell, long post O.o)

    mushy gushy 3k stuff (open)
    I don't have time atm to write up all of my 3k shoutouts, but there are ten users I'd like to mention first who have made my time on Smogon what it is now. Zarel for making PS (where all of the other important stuff happened!). verbatim, for noticing me and giving me voice in the first place, back when PS averaged twenty users online at a time, and for everything related to Balanced Hackmons and OM in general we've done. aldaron, for bringing me up for PS mods. Birkal, for many things - recognizing me in the nom thread (badgeholders go look it up, he was pretty much the only one who knew who I was lol), getting me into The Smog (alongside Bummer), bringing me up for OM mods, and being an awesome guy in general. Treecko, for being my assman in OMPL (second only to Congregation of the Classiest in classiness in PLs), a fun guy to have around PS and OM, and having cute avatars. Blank Zero for being probably the most active and approachable guy on my team who's really active in OM and really awesome. Electrolyte, for being one of the guys I could talk about just about anything Pokemon with, helping me out with several OU teams, and being radioactive. Yes, I fucking love that song and still need to check out Imagine Dragons' other stuff. IceyCold, for being the coldest bro a bro could have. And jonathanrp for being the only active Smogon user I know irl (also for sucking).

    General shoutouts:
    Level 51 - fuck timezones man, fuck timezones
    Oglemi - caching all of my frantic SCMS edits
    ...
    All PS staff previously unmentioned
    All of the Smog crew previously unmentioned
    (WIP)
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