Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

[Halcyon.]

Landorus has also started running Rock Slide pretty often, which can do massive damage to Torn-T and Zapdos, making them just checks. Mega Ltias and Cresselia are literally the only Pokemon that counter Landorus, and even still can get fucked by U-turn Landorus into Bisharp or BandTar.

 

[56k]

It's a good rocks setter. Much like heatran it forces out sableye and there's no way sabel switches in trying to block rocks like it does with garchomp or ferro etc. EarthPower/SludgeWave/HP-Ice/Rocks seems to be a good set considering all the spdef gliscors running around.

 

[Freeroamer]

Yeah I've ran the set above a few times, it's nice because as you say none of the Magic Bounce users in the tier will want to switch into it and reflect your rocks. However I would only use the set on specific offense teams where you don't have another viable rocks setter, as a big part of Landorus' threat comes from the huge amount of moves it could potentially have, which range from more coverage to hit specific threats (Knock Off for Lati switchins etc. they've all already been discussed) to set-up options to increase it's threat vs certain playstyles(Rock Polish for Hyper Offense and certain balance teams, Calm Mind for stall and fat balance). I've even seen someone make very good use out of a double dance set with both Calm Mind and Rock Polish, in order to maximise it's effectiveness in multiple matchups. It's just a metagame defining threat, and certainly something you have to be able to handle if you want to be successful in the metagame.

 

[XxbraedonxX]

I've been out of the meta game for awhile (after breeding and training my 6IV Greninja, I took a break, then came back to find it banned, raged and continued my break) and I noticed Raikou has been bumped to OU. He's one of my favourites, and I've been running him every so often since I started competitive in gen 4.

Anyways, I'm just curious as to the reason for the surge in his representation? Is there anything it specifically counters? Does it provide certain utilities on a team? Or are people just realizing Raikou's a boss? How have people been using the Assault Vest set?

 

[Grim]

The reason why Raikou went to OU is because its Speed + typing makes it a good check to Flying-types such as Talonflame and Mega Pinsir and to the two genies (Thundurus and Landorus), the latter especially with an Assault Vest. It's also just a nice fast pivot with decent coverage that doesn't need a Mega Slot (Mega Manectric).

 

[xSilentDeviL]

I've been out of the meta game for awhile (after breeding and training my 6IV Greninja, I took a break, then came back to find it banned, raged and continued my break) and I noticed Raikou has been bumped to OU. He's one of my favourites, and I've been running him every so often since I started competitive in gen 4.

Anyways, I'm just curious as to the reason for the surge in his representation? Is there anything it specifically counters? Does it provide certain utilities on a team? Or are people just realizing Raikou's a boss? How have people been using the Assault Vest set?

As an avid user of Raikou myself, I can definitely back up how good he is. The assault vest set is awesome at checking powerful special attackers such as Gengar. Rain teams have also seen a nice increase, and Raikou is an excellent choice to counter opposing Thundurus who can really fuck up a lot of common rain teammates. It also obv doesn't take up the mega slot, allowing you to run thigns like Mega Swampert or Mega Scizor under rain with Raikou. Mega Magnetric is almost always inferior on these rain teams because his fire coverage becomes weaker. Raikou can also run a nice Specs set, and a cool CM with or w/o sub that can be a wincon for your team. As mentioned by GrimoireGod, he's still an excellent choice to check birdspam as well.

Hope I helped :)

 

[Mega Klefki]

Does anyone think Feraligatr can make it all the way to OU?

 

[Wargreymon]

The reason why Raikou went to OU is because its Speed + typing makes it a good check to Flying-types such as Talonflame and Mega Pinsir and to the two genies (Thundurus and Landorus), the latter especially with an Assault Vest. It's also just a nice fast pivot with decent coverage that doesn't need a Mega Slot (Mega Manectric).

Don't you mean former? Referring to Thundurus instead of Landorus? Because AV Raikou takes 92% minimum from Earth power lol. Guaranteed OHKO after rocks.

 

[Celticpride]

Don't you mean former? Referring to Thundurus instead of Landorus? Because AV Raikou takes 92% minimum from Earth power lol. Guaranteed OHKO after rocks.

It doesn't check it exactly, but Raikou is one of those things that does better in a Genie meta. Kinda like Mamoswine, can't switch-in but pressures those teams pretty well. I know he worded it wrong but I think that's the general thing he was going for. Raikou basically rose because it pairs well with Lando-T and it's really easy to fit onto pretty much any kind of team.

 

[Eraxxer]

So in the OU Viability Ranking they've begun discussing Mega Gallade. I thought about Skill Swap Gallade and realised it's really not that good even against Sableye. Seriously, you block a burn on the first turn but you've given up Swords Dance or Knock Off, if you give up Knock Off you literally can't touch Mega Sableye and if you give up Swords Dance you still can't do much at all with unboosted non STAB Knock Offs, ignoring both Prankster pre-mega and Shadow Ball 2HKOing. I mean it's pretty cool to catch Azu on the switch with a Skill Swap, but to me it's definitely an inferior set. Any real reason to run it atm?

 

[bludz]

Well you would run it over Zen Headbutt seeing as Knock Off + CC is better coverage. It's pretty situational but can be cool to steal Huge Power from Azumarill or something. Mostly a gimmick though, IMO.

 

[AM]

So in the OU Viability Ranking they've begun discussing Mega Gallade. I thought about Skill Swap Gallade and realised it's really not that good even against Sableye. Seriously, you block a burn on the first turn but you've given up Swords Dance or Knock Off, if you give up Knock Off you literally can't touch Mega Sableye and if you give up Swords Dance you still can't do much at all with unboosted non STAB Knock Offs, ignoring both Prankster pre-mega and Shadow Ball 2HKOing. I mean it's pretty cool to catch Azu on the switch with a Skill Swap, but to me it's definitely an inferior set. Any real reason to run it atm?

Yeah in all honesty there really isn't a huge reason to run it other than catching some things off guard. It's fun to use but after that becomes a hit or miss, a miss in a lot of situations as well.

 

[firehusky]

Skill swap is gimmicky set, it's kinda fun to use, but there's really not much point in using it.
edit: ninja'd ._.

 

[Freeroamer]

My issue with Mega Gallade in particular just from trying to use it, is that it doesn't really check anything that well, I tried building a balance team around it but you never really get the chance to bring it in. You might bring it in once vs something but then it's very much restricted to waiting for a teammate to die before it can come in again. This is a shame cos it actually has decent bulk but a less than inspiring defensive typing means it doesn't really abuse it very well. It hits like a truck but then so do a lot of other megas who have a lot more defensive synergy and can help you cover more threats.

 

[vyomov]

I remember that Escavalier was decently viable in BW, but I haven't heard much since then , so do you guys think it has some modicum of viability in the OR/AS meta? I was thinking of testing a set similar to the one it runs in RU and UU(Assault Vest), but replacing the speed investment with SpD investment as follows:
Escavalier @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Drill Run
Any thoughts?

 

[Clone]

My issue with Mega Gallade in particular just from trying to use it, is that it doesn't really check anything that well, I tried building a balance team around it but you never really get the chance to bring it in. You might bring it in once vs something but then it's very much restricted to waiting for a teammate to die before it can come in again. This is a shame cos it actually has decent bulk but a less than inspiring defensive typing means it doesn't really abuse it very well. It hits like a truck but then so do a lot of other megas who have a lot more defensive synergy and can help you cover more threats.

Gallade isnt really meant to be used on balance teams; it works best on Bulky Offense and Hyper Offense squads when used in tandem with other hard hitters to open holes in defensive cores. Its not really meant to "check" anything defensively, rather, it uses its bulk to live a hit and retaliate back with an (un)boosted Close Combat or coverage move. Gallades bulk is beneficial for not being revenge killed or eating up a weaker attack such as a Gliscor Earthquake while it nabs an SD that turn.

 

[AM]

I remember that Escavalier was decently viable in BW, but I haven't heard much since then , so do you guys think it has some modicum of viability in the OR/AS meta? I was thinking of testing a set similar to the one it runs in RU and UU(Assault Vest), but replacing the speed investment with SpD investment as follows:
Escavalier @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Drill Run
Any thoughts?

I don't see why you would use this over AV Metagross. I mean if you really wanted to use this run Pursuit for Gengar and Latis at least. It's actually ok in Trick Room teams though as wall-breaker so there's that but really hard to justify using this when it's really a team specific asset more so than having general viability.

 

[Sebberball]

I remember that Escavalier was decently viable in BW, but I haven't heard much since then , so do you guys think it has some modicum of viability in the OR/AS meta? I was thinking of testing a set similar to the one it runs in RU and UU(Assault Vest), but replacing the speed investment with SpD investment as follows:
Escavalier @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Drill Run
Any thoughts?

As Lord AM just said, it is outclassed by Ass vest meta gross, but it does have a small niche of countering gengar with knock off/pursuit but other than that, use AV meta.

Also about M-Gallade, it does have a large place in the OU Metagame being one of the huge powerhouses that counter a lot of the Metagame, as in Bisharp and even Mega Metagross. It is a great mega in OU, having a large throne in OU, only being countered by m-sableye, and having the large move pool (thanks to you Kirlia) having access to will-o-wisp and also skill swap, it has a huge part in this meta

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Just a nitpick, but Gallade doesn't counter Bisharp nor Metagross.

 

[Celticpride]

I know AM has already talked about how great Mega Sableye hazard-stacking balanced is, but Sableye balanced is an insanely effective playstyle in general right now. I mean to start it's a Mega Metagross check, which in and of itself makes it more than worth it to use on balanced where that playstyle is hurt the most by Metagross. It's also an insanely easy piece to build a balanced core around in terms of defensive synergy, which is another great trait for a balanced mon because part of the goal on balanced is to cover a lot of threats in a few slots. Add in the control it gives to the hazard stacking game, allowing you to use hazard weak mons like Kyurem-B and Victini a little easier (Tini especially because it can check Gard) and you have a great asset to balanced. This more just comes from people (myself included, many times) saying that Sableye is only really found on stall and that is becoming less and less true as the metagame shifts. This particular type of balanced is going to become more and more prominent as time goes on.

 

[Curlia]

Yeah celticpride, i feel as you are very correct. I have just now finished building a balance team with mega sableye and it works very well on balance. Yeah its true Mega-sableye is found of a lot of stall teams but can be used on balance just as well. Switching out to have a better advantage on sableye? You will probably get knocked offed. Sableye also works as a amazing lead, being able to will o wisp/knock off first turn, Without your team worrying about the opposing hazards being set up. I totally agree that Mega-sableye won't longer be known as just a pokemon on stall teams.

 

[Koba30]

What is your favorite mega? I like mega-scizor. The normal scizor is good, but the mega is awesome, he got very usefull moves (bullet punch, pursuit, knock off, roost, swords dance) and a good bulky on his defenses, and he can do various things,he can sweep with swords dance + bullet punch and bug bite or he can be a bulky support with roost, knock off, bullet punch and swords dance and the power of technician is very good in scizor, mega-scizor is my favorite mega.

anybody here already used Swampert with assault with efforts in HP? despite being a strategy rarely used it is very useful, the Swampert is well tank, and can still end up with many special sweepers.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SPD Assault Vest Swampert: 165-196 (40.8 - 48.5%) - guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Gengar Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SPD Assault Vest Swampert: 288-340 (71.2 - 84.1%) - guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SPD Assault Vest Swampert: 272-320 (67.3 - 79.2%) - guaranteed 2HKO

Bummer Edit: Don't double post, just edit your last post.

 

[firehusky]

Vanilla Swampert is pretty much unviable. It's not even that good of a tank, lacking reliable recovery and the passive recovery provided by leftovers. With assault vest, it also can't use Stealth Rock. Swampert actually isn't a good answer to any of those, only being able to check them. Many other pokemon such as specially defensive mandibuzz can also check all of those threats, while also being able to defog, status, and have reliable recovery.

 

[Koba30]

Vanilla Swampert is pretty much unviable. It's not even that good of a tank, lacking reliable recovery and the passive recovery provided by leftovers. With assault vest, it also can't use Stealth Rock. Swampert actually isn't a good answer to any of those, only being able to check them. Many other pokemon such as specially defensive mandibuzz can also check all of those threats, while also being able to defog, status, and have reliable recovery.

Well, that depends on what you want the Swampert make.A Swampert support of stealth rock is good, but if you already have a pokemon that puts stealth rock field you can use it in other ways, and this was one of I found, though it is very unusual, but in general I use it as well and it works great until, despite the stelath rock Swampert be better. And you're right about not having to recover, leftovers in Swampert is very good

 

[Aerow93]

Well, that depends on what you want the Swampert make.A Swampert support of stealth rock is good, but if you already have a pokemon that puts stealth rock field you can use it in other ways, and this was one of I found, though it is very unusual, but in general I use it as well and it works great until, despite the stelath rock Swampert be better. And you're right about not having to recover, leftovers in Swampert is very good

I my opinion, AV Swampert isn't good in the actual metagame because :

Like you said, it hasn't recovery, so its bulk will be lower than the Leftovers set, and it doesn't hig very hard like AV Azu, it will not be a good offensive pivot like Tornadus-T because of his lack of recovery...
This AV set doesn't touch many things in the metagame, so, maybe it will tank some thing, but it will not hit hardly in return...

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Swampert: 200-238 (49.5 - 58.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

(Unfortunately, Latios deads on the recoil because of Ice Punch)

252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 175-207 (54.1 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(Only 55% ? :-/ )

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Swampert: 195-231 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO

It doesn't like that (and fears the burn of Scald)

252+ Atk Swampert Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 148-176 (50.6 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In fact, it's a basic Swampert, without Stealth Rock, and Leftovers, the only qualities making it "good". The AV take just easier few hits.


But, you know, it's my opinion ^^

(Excuse my bad english, i'm french...)