Ladder ORAS Monotype Discussion

[Freeroamer]

Only Flame Body Moltres will be useful and seeing as Moltres is shit, that's not really anything great. The loss of Defog plus not being able to Pressure stall Stone Edges makes Static Zapdos significantly inferior. It might be ok on more offensive variants of Zapdos but no one uses those because Thundurus exists and Zap's niche is defensive sets which it already does very well. Pressure makes those sets better, especially vs Stone Edge shit like Ttar. Roosting through 4 edges is significantly easier than 8.

ORAS is kinda meh for me from a Monotype point of view honestly, I preferred XY Monotype because I feel from the transition certain types got completely left behind while others got needlessly buffed which in turn narrows the field of consistently usable types. Obviously this is just my opinion and I'm sure a lot of people disagree but types that I would've used for a counter style on current meta trends like Fire / Ice / Electric are honestly so bad in this current generation due to their lack of improvement compared with other types that I wouldn't even touch them unless I knew 100% what my opp was bringing and I wanted a hard counterstyle. I feel ORAS pushed this divide harder.

Something I'd like to change in future games is maybe a twist on how hazards work, even with Defog they dominate the game here and in every tier way too much for my liking. If anything Defog could almost have been said to make it worse with how punishable it is and how much emphasis it places on the rocker vs remover matchup which can often be huge in games. Stacking hazards then just switching endlessly has always been the easiest way to beat unexperienced players or to abuse the hell out of a favourable matchup. Idk how they'd do such a thing though.

 

[Antihaxxer]

Sticky Web provides a lot of support for Mega Heracross on Bug teams, I'd want to give a shoutout to Inwhale for making this a thing in Bug monos. The team was a very well built team which showcased Mega Heracross's true potential. If you wanna build anything around it, here's a cool overview of the team:

I planned to bring some innovative shit this tour, let me show what I had in plan for a Mega Heracross team. I won't be revealing all of them, that would be after the tournament, so here's a combination I've been planning to introduce in the tournament, but won't probably since I'm bringing this up now:

Hide

Scizor @ Insect Plate
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Tailwind
- U-turn

Heracross-Mega @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed

Tailwind Bug is something I wanted to experiment on, the plan is to setup a Tailwind with Scizor, U-Turn or let it die and break some stuffs with Heracross. I've gives Insect Plate on Scizor for a stronger U-Turn, while Adamant nature on Heracross to 2HKO Skarm and destroy bulkier builds without the Speed boost. Obviously this is a creative way to use Mega Heracross, but it is indeed effective.

I like the idea to boost MegaCross, but instead of Tailwind, isn't Agility+Baton Pass better ?

 

[feen]

I like the idea to boost MegaCross, but instead of Tailwind, isn't Agility+Baton Pass better ?

There's phazers and Taunt users in the tier in Skarmory Mew Sableye Mandibuzz and Swampert, BP is okay but Tailwind is pretty nice too

 

[sceeeeeenes]

If you could change 1 thing about the ORAS Mono metagame over the next ~9-10 months, what would it be?

Suspect Hoopa U. I use the word suspect, but what i really mean is Ban. I know its broken, others know its broken and hopefully a suspect test will make the majority realise that psychic and dark don't need this borked team destroyer. I really struggle to comprehend why it wasn't suspected ages ago.

 

[BlackJak]

Time to give my thoughts to ORAS meta game and the bird trio abilities as well as some Sun/Moon predictions.

Honestly, ORAS in my opinion felt satisfying and balanced. ORAS blessed most types in the game with respective megas, such as Beedrill for Poison and Bug, Sableye Mega for Dark and Ghost, Sharpedo Mega for Dark, Lopunny Mega for Normal, Gallade Mega for Fighting, Diancie Mega for rock and Fairy, Latios and Latias Mega for Psychic and Dragon, Sceptile Mega for Grass, Camerupt Mega for Ground, Pidgeot Mega for Flying and Normal, and Audino Mega for Normal. Also, going to shift back to past banned megas such as Slowbro for water and psychic, Metagross for Psychic and Steel, Altaria for dragon and flying. The reason I list all these mons is because, while these mons might not all be staples to a team or be preferred to a monotype team, they provided the ORAS metagame with new options to chose from, inspiring new team builds and new play styles. I like ORAS better than XY because of this.

ORAS also feels more balanced because of the fact that there is no pokemon or team being over centralized as apposed to XY, while providing benefits to said team and type, but hurts the overall meta game. Examples of this would be Genesect on bug, because although it did cover bugs weaknesses to flying, and had amazing coverage and support thanks to sticky webs, it's unpredictability, download ability, and diverse move pool got it banned. Another example would be Aegislash, because although it did help glue steels fighting weakness, stance change which forced players to predict around it a lot is the reason it got the boot. Charizard X and Altaria are also key examples of this because of their bulk and prowess and access to DD which helped out flying and dragon. In ORAS, I've never heard any bad comments about a team, and ever since the Zapdos unban, I haven't heard complaining about the "Skarm Dos" Core. Most to almost all types are used, which is great. Types that struggled in the past thanks to bans, actually preform pretty well, such as Ghost because of Mega Sableye and Aegislash. There is a huge gap difference between ORAS and XY. Where XY promoted more offensive, hard hitting, somewhat broken pokemon, ORAS promotes balance. I still love both equally though.

If I could change one thing in the ORAS mono metagame, like my fellow people who posted above me, I'd suspect Hoopa-U. That thing literally destroys balance with a life orb or a band or a specs, and acts as a decent revenge killer if it runs a scarf. Also the fact that it promotes a diverse move-pool, 160 Base Attack, and 170 Base Special Attack isn't helping it out either.

The only good ability I see being used here of the bird trio is possibly static on Electric, since some Electric monos tend to run Bold Defensive Zapdos as a wall to handle Pokemon rotom possibly cant. The other ones don't really seem to well because of the fact that they aren't used as much at all compared to Zapdos.

As for the Future Sun/Moon games, I'm kinda one of those people whos thinking that we better have a cool selection of starters this year. I'm tired of starters looking deformed like Delphox. Also pretty sick of Fire/Fighting mons. I'm hoping for type diversity for Sun/Moon starters which could help out grass, water, and fire. As for the pokemon Magina, I'm predicting it to be Fairy/Steel because it looks cute and has that fairy feel and look to it, also steel because it's said to be a "man made pokemon." In terms of actual mono metagame Sun/Moon predictions though, I'm not really sure, but I can't wait to find out.

 

[truedrew]

Hey so as an era comes to an end we need some hard facts

W
What is your favorite part of ORAS compared to past metas? Least Favorite?
Did you like the ORAS meta better or worse than previous metagames? Why?
If you could change 1 thing about the ORAS Mono metagame over the next ~9-10 months, what would it be?

My favourite part? My favourite part was the turn in philosophy! Many changes were controversial or sometimes met with shock and awe but what people (or at least i saw) was just people complain initially about it because like bait on forums is strong. The unbanning of mega gallade and zapdos did not really affect the meta in such a negative way. Zapdos unbanning was justified because a) Type bans made monotype unneededly complex, b) Flying lost the real culprits behind their dominance (MAlaria and Zard X were truly fucking good with skarm dos). Coming back to mega gallade unban: It has not impacted psychic that much as we hoped.
Gallade sits at 14 | Gallade-Mega | 10.59557%
in higher ladder because mega gardevoir is just better. It beats mega sableye (which can sweep psychic if played well) it thrams dragons single handedly and lastly it can provide amazing utility with trace and wisp (cm also other niche sets etc) Gallade has not affected psychic because Hoopa -U and victini are more effective in roles of physical attackers etc. Thus i feel that the initial over hype of the unbans and changes was just because the meta had not developed. Also on the non-ban of mega sableye: This no ban has not really effected dark as reg sab is amazing as well. Ghost however still can maintain relevance in a meta where Hoopa-U demolishes types which have no counter measures (psy vs psy depends on whether scarf stays alive colbur berry is preserved psy v dark ) As a normal player i will say honestly, REGULAR NORMAL CANNOT HOPE TO BEAT DARK/PSYCHIC WITH MEGA MEDI + HOOPA CORES BECAUSE THEY FUCKING RUIN BOTH CHANSEY AND PORYGON 2 WHICH WERE SUPPOSEDLY SUPER BULK ARE FUCKING RUINED. ( Mega medi is an exception as it smacks all but the bulkiest of psychic types but hoppa really fucking merks normal with an LO and knock off support) Bisharp it may be argued is similar in nature but hear me out okay. Hoopa has 40-50 more attack than bisharp, hoopa has mixed offenses so it can murkrows, hoopa has coverage of jesus, hoopa is greninja without the need of protean (speed is ass but what wall eats these hits well on a plethora of types). Hoopa U is a pokemon which chooses its checks. There are no counters and that brings me to the 3rd question: What would i change? well first off ban my nigga hoopa-U he adds power to two amazing types which really do not need him.

Secondly if possible, i would like for the implementation of a better suspect test voting procedure. IDK keep it subjective like OU does because honestly the next step for monotype is official tier. To reach officialdom we need more comprehensive procedure thus enforce the paragraph rule and be fucking biased if the person has done the suspect just to board the hype train shut them down. Post the best paragraphs for or against and monitor the fuck out of each voter. (Also side note MS-# is very easy to manipulate if someone has prior knowledge of a potential suspect maybe that can change) also council, Be transparent. Real talk, sometime during the zard x flying era i honestly felt only the top players/types were being catered to i know not every type can be equal but don't OP a type as well. Cater to the entire community that was why the later bans were much appreciated by me they were clean cut and transparent! Lastly good fucking job you all on the council/monostaff keep it the fuck up you are doing an amazing thing with the tier !!

What about trio abilities?
Static on electric NOT Defog is much more important than 30% cancer chance. Stunfisk does it better and t wave is 100%!!! :D

Other two are banned/ass so if they work please show me how!.


IDK about past meta's because i have never played them. Although from monopl replays i feel that people focus on 3-4 types which work better. BW is a much more imbalanced tier so before complaining about oras not allowing ice/rock being unplayable or very tough to play, Look back at how limiting BW were, ORAS/XY have changed monotype for good and now instead of 3-4 14-16 types can be played so be fucking grateful!!.

Suggestions:
Monotype Article Workshop- Introduce the community/entertainment
Battle Of the Week- Pit two players vs each other

 

[Dece1t]

I've been seeing a lot about a Hoopa-U suspect, here's my personal opinion.

Hoopa on Dark gave the type a great boost, they now have some offense against fighting, as well as something decent to compensate for the loss of Greninja. This isn't the biggest concern, however.

Hoopa on Psychic is a different story. Psychic is naturally a very good type, but here's the point I want to make. Even if we ban it, Psychic will still be just as good, and Dark will probably suffer pretty heavily.

Scizor is a great parallel to this, even with that banned, Steel more or less Wil still be as good and rock and Ice won't be any better with it banned. Although, there's a clear difference here. The meta has adapted well to handling Hoopa, there are no types rn that have a ton of trouble against it. (You can argue Ghost, but people like Wyn, Chleg, and Argus have proved it still works great even on high ladder). So if it was banned, what would we be doing? Dark gets nerfed pretty hard, while Psychic is basically just as good with or without it. I personally feel we don't need to, however I can understand the reasoning behind a suspect, especially the end of a meta.

 

[Omega-Xis]

I've been seeing a lot about a Hoopa-U suspect, here's my personal opinion.

Hoopa on Dark gave the type a great boost, they now have some offense against fighting, as well as something decent to compensate for the loss of Greninja. This isn't the biggest concern, however.

Hoopa on Psychic is a different story. Psychic is naturally a very good type, but here's the point I want to make. Even if we ban it, Psychic will still be just as good, ans Dark will probably suffer pretty heavily.

Scizor is a great parallel to this, even with that banned, Steel more or less Wil still be as good as rock and Ice won't be any better with it banned. Although, there's a clear difference here. The meta has adapted well to handling Hoopa, there are no types rn that have a ton of trouble against it. (You can argue Ghost, but people like Wyn, Chleg, and Argus have proved it still works great even on high ladder). So if it was banned, what would we be doing? Dark gets nerfed pretty hard, while Psychic is basically just as good with or without it. I personally feel we don't need to, however I can understand the reasoning behind a suspect, especially the end of a meta.

Have you played Poison lately Stun? It's not like Psychic or Dark really lack easy ways of getting rid of Skuntank/Drapion (Victini and M-Gard on Psychic, Poison struggles more with M-Sab on Dark lol) and then it just mindlessly spams Hyperspace Hole or Zen Headbutt. Not to mention it also makes the Psychic v Psychic mirror a "fun" game of "let's see who can U-Turn into Hoopa-U more!" I don't think there's anyone calling it outright broken; I think it's more coming from a mindset of people wanting a suspect since, as this thread evidences, there's definitely uncertainty surrounding it. If there's a fair amount of division, then it's definitely something that should be looked at. Even if it comes to the consensus that it should stay and nothing happens, at least people had the opportunity to more thoroughly test things. "Better be safe than sorry." Not saying you were saying there shouldn't be a suspect, I just feel strongly that there should be one, didn't mean to attack if that's how it comes across.

 

[Dece1t]

Have you played Poison lately Stun? It's not like Psychic or Dark really lack easy ways of getting rid of Skuntank/Drapion (Victini and M-Gard on Psychic, Poison struggles more with M-Sab on Dark lol) and then it just mindlessly spams Hyperspace Hole or Zen Headbutt. Not to mention it also makes the Psychic v Psychic mirror a "fun" game of "let's see who can U-Turn into Hoopa-U more!" I don't think there's anyone calling it outright broken; I think it's more coming from a mindset of people wanting a suspect since, as this thread evidences, there's definitely uncertainty surrounding it. If there's a fair amount of division, then it's definitely something that should be looked at. Even if it comes to the consensus that it should stay and nothing happens, at least people had the opportunity to more thoroughly test things. "Better be safe than sorry." Not saying you were saying there shouldn't be a suspect, I just feel strongly that there should be one, didn't mean to attack if that's how it comes across.

I actually have been playing with Poison a lot more lately, thanks for asking xD

Anyways, Poison is unique in the fact that it actually performs brilliantly against Psychic. Skunk is amazing priority, and a good Psychic immunity (honorable mention to Drapion as being just as good). Scolipede especially has a very easy time sweeping against it (given Megahorn doesn't miss too much). In the case of Hoopa, it definitely is a threat, but it is very checkable. Even Mega Beedrill outspeeds it and nails an easy KO.

I agree they have a harder time against Mega Sab, but, point of the matter, Hoopa doesn't severely threaten it as it would like Scizor to ice ot rock. I can find some replays later if you'd like. (As atm I'm writing this on mobile)

 

[Isza]

My favorite part of the ORAS metagame, would be without a doubt the addition to the new mega evolutions. During XY there were a few mega stones to go around, making builds look commonly the same.(especially flying) With the addition of ORAS however, there was an open chance for diversity in builds, which is what I usually enjoy. Not saying BW wasn't diverse, but still Mega Evolutions are always cool :D.
What I dislike however, is the new feel of centralization while playing, as well as building. When I took a break from Monotype to play other tiers, I came back in a metagame infested with Hoopa, Flying, Mega Sableye, and other factors I cannot think of at the moment. The types I used to love and play became inferior basically with the new changes. (Steel, Fire, Poison) I found myself playing Balance most of the time, mostly water teams, and why is that? Because that was one of the only things that survived in this cycle of Dark, Psychic and Flying. I found myself becoming a more balanced player overtime just because of these changes. Feeling the need to run certain things ALL, or most of the time does not seem fun to me.(Example, I have to run Lum Berry Bisharp on every steel team to avoiding losing to Mega Sableye.)
I do NOT like the Current ORAS metagame compared to previous meta's, because 3 types control the metagame in ORAS (lol) compared to XY and BW, where almost everything was viable enough at a point.
If I could change 1 thing? Banning the two darks that contributed to my downfall, Hoopa U and Mega Sabeleye. I feel these two are way too good atm, and that banning them would help balance things out a bit.

 

[Ridley]

I think ORAS was a fantastic meta and a great period for Monotype as a whole! The tier has grown so much and I am so proud of everyone that has been a part of it! With the introduction of the new sub-forum, MPL 1 and 2, and the growth of the Monotype room in general, it has been a super successful era for Monotype!

Going into the meta as a whole, I really agree with what Kaiser said. Dark, Flying, Psychic, and Water really dominate the meta as of now, but there will always be types that are better than others and there's not much that can be done about it. I honestly think that every type is viable, and we have come as close as we probably ever have to a balanced metagame!

Suggestions:
The only thing that I can really think of is banning Mega-Sableye and possibly Hoopa-U. Both of them are very over-centralizing, but I think that the checks to Hoopa-U are far less gimmicky than the checks to Mega-Sableye. Many Mega-Sableye checks do not help out with anything except Mega-Sableye, while a lot of checks to Hoopa-U can be used to help out vs. other things.

 

[scpinion]

With the recent queries on type bans and Aegislash's unique status in our metagame resurfacing all across this forum (and in the council's pm boxes), the council decided to vote on how we would like for the metagame to move forward. I don't think any of us are excited to announce this, but it is clear we need to remove the inconsistencies in the philosophy and banlist.

The council unanimously voted to continue with the policy of no type-only bans in the standard Monotype metagame.

In response to this, the council unanimously voted to globally ban Aegislash to remove the final inconsistency between the banlist and tiering philoshophy. We all know Aegislash is an unhealthy presence on Steel teams from the XY metagame, so we felt a suspect test was not needed.

The ban will go into effect when the Hoopa suspect ends. i.e. If Hoopa-U is banned, the Aegi and Hoopa-U ban will be implemented at the same time.

We're announcing the change early so the queries about type bans will have a definitive response. Also, the early announcement allows everyone a chance to discuss how these changes will affect the ORAS meta moving forward so the suspect voters in the Hoopa-U suspect may make an informed decision.

Votes

Acast: No type bans
All Falls Down: No type bans
Anttya: No type bans
Barian: No type bans
Death on Wings: No type bans
Paleo: No type bans
scpinion: No type bans

Acast: Ban Aegislash globally
All Falls Down: Ban Aegislash globally
Anttya: Ban Aegislash globally
Barian: Ban Aegislash globally
Death on Wings: Ban Aegislash globally
Paleo: Ban Aegislash globally
scpinion: Ban Aegislash globally

Acast: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
All Falls Down: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Anttya: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Barian: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Death on Wings: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Paleo: Ban Immediately
scpinion: Ban Immediately

 

[IronicNinja]

With the recent queries on type bans and Aegislash's unique status in our metagame resurfacing all across this forum (and in the council's pm boxes), the council decided to vote on how we would like for the metagame to move forward. I don't think any of us are excited to announce this, but it is clear we need to remove the inconsistencies in the philosophy and banlist.

The council unanimously voted to continue with the policy of no type-only bans in the standard Monotype metagame.

In response to this, the council unanimously voted to globally ban Aegislash to remove the final inconsistency between the banlist and tiering philoshophy. We all know Aegislash is an unhealthy presence on Steel teams from the XY metagame, so we felt a suspect test was not needed.

The ban will go into effect when the Hoopa suspect ends. i.e. If Hoopa-U is banned, the Aegi and Hoopa-U ban will be implemented at the same time.

We're announcing the change early so the queries about type bans will have a definitive response. Also, the early announcement allows everyone a chance to discuss how these changes will affect the ORAS meta moving forward so the suspect voters in the Hoopa-U suspect may make an informed decision.

Votes

Acast: No type bans
All Falls Down: No type bans
Anttya: No type bans
Barian: No type bans
Death on Wings: No type bans
Paleo: No type bans
scpinion: No type bans

Acast: Ban Aegislash globally
All Falls Down: Ban Aegislash globally
Anttya: Ban Aegislash globally
Barian: Ban Aegislash globally
Death on Wings: Ban Aegislash globally
Paleo: Ban Aegislash globally
scpinion: Ban Aegislash globally
Acast: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
All Falls Down: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Anttya: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Barian: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Death on Wings: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Paleo: Ban Immediately
scpinion: Ban Immediately

Rest in Peace Aegislash, you will live in our hearts. Also, won't ghost be a lot worse than it already is?

 

[SaNeski]

With the recent queries on type bans and Aegislash's unique status in our metagame resurfacing all across this forum (and in the council's pm boxes), the council decided to vote on how we would like for the metagame to move forward. I don't think any of us are excited to announce this, but it is clear we need to remove the inconsistencies in the philosophy and banlist.

The council unanimously voted to continue with the policy of no type-only bans in the standard Monotype metagame.

In response to this, the council unanimously voted to globally ban Aegislash to remove the final inconsistency between the banlist and tiering philoshophy. We all know Aegislash is an unhealthy presence on Steel teams from the XY metagame, so we felt a suspect test was not needed.

The ban will go into effect when the Hoopa suspect ends. i.e. If Hoopa-U is banned, the Aegi and Hoopa-U ban will be implemented at the same time.

We're announcing the change early so the queries about type bans will have a definitive response. Also, the early announcement allows everyone a chance to discuss how these changes will affect the ORAS meta moving forward so the suspect voters in the Hoopa-U suspect may make an informed decision.

Votes

Acast: No type bans
All Falls Down: No type bans
Anttya: No type bans
Barian: No type bans
Death on Wings: No type bans
Paleo: No type bans
scpinion: No type bans

Acast: Ban Aegislash globally
All Falls Down: Ban Aegislash globally
Anttya: Ban Aegislash globally
Barian: Ban Aegislash globally
Death on Wings: Ban Aegislash globally
Paleo: Ban Aegislash globally
scpinion: Ban Aegislash globally
Acast: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
All Falls Down: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Anttya: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Barian: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Death on Wings: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Paleo: Ban Immediately
scpinion: Ban Immediately

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

We all can play healthy with zard-x on fire and Aegi on ghost, and maybe some others i've missed. But monotype is evolving as a tier and trying to make it to the big leagues, and it looks like we have no other choice than to show support & move on.


Actually do hope monotype becomes official someday. It will probably be worth the boredom & selling out.

 

[ArkenCiel]

This is.. An interesting move, respectable if it achieves its end goal of gaining an official status. There was quite a following for the opposite course of action regarding type bans, but I'll trust in the unaninous confidence that the council has in going this direction, albeit a little surprised how uniform it is*.


I can't quite say I agree with this philosophy, but I do think the end goal is admirable. I'll mark this day for my own selfish reference :P When the fated day comes and what is desired is achieved, I'll gladly applaud you all for adamantly sticking to what you believe in the face of the community's criticism. I just hope people don't lose interest in the metagame on the way there*. I mean, it is just Ghost after all*. If there's going to be a loss it won't be much*.

EDIT: * means sarcasm. Fellow friend misinterpreted me ]:

 

[Kammi]

This is.. An interesting move, respectable if it achieves its end goal of gaining an official status. There was quite a following for the opposite course of action regarding type bans, but I'll trust in the unaninous confidence that the council has in going this direction, albeit a little surprised how uniform it is.


I can't quite say I agree with this philosophy, but I do think the end goal is admirable. I'll mark this day for my own selfish reference :P When the fated day comes and what is desired is achieved, I'll gladly applaud you all for adamantly sticking to what you believe in the face of the community's criticism. I just hope people don't lose interest in the metagame on the way there. I mean, it is just Ghost after all. If there's going to be a loss it won't be much.

What's the point in a metagame that is official but stale. Sure, we have consistency and simplicity. Yes, our banlist is basic enough to capture at a glance. Yes, we might be one step forward to becoming official, if that is even possible at all. But I hope the council, and the users of this community, understand that one whole type just became competitively unusable for the sake of this. Logically speaking, a good portion of the diversity in the metagame is completely gone. I'm so glad you think it's worth it, though.

 

[hoenest]

With the recent queries on type bans and Aegislash's unique status in our metagame resurfacing all across this forum (and in the council's pm boxes), the council decided to vote on how we would like for the metagame to move forward. I don't think any of us are excited to announce this, but it is clear we need to remove the inconsistencies in the philosophy and banlist.

The council unanimously voted to continue with the policy of no type-only bans in the standard Monotype metagame.

In response to this, the council unanimously voted to globally ban Aegislash to remove the final inconsistency between the banlist and tiering philoshophy. We all know Aegislash is an unhealthy presence on Steel teams from the XY metagame, so we felt a suspect test was not needed.

The ban will go into effect when the Hoopa suspect ends. i.e. If Hoopa-U is banned, the Aegi and Hoopa-U ban will be implemented at the same time.

We're announcing the change early so the queries about type bans will have a definitive response. Also, the early announcement allows everyone a chance to discuss how these changes will affect the ORAS meta moving forward so the suspect voters in the Hoopa-U suspect may make an informed decision.

Votes

Acast: No type bans
All Falls Down: No type bans
Anttya: No type bans
Barian: No type bans
Death on Wings: No type bans
Paleo: No type bans
scpinion: No type bans

Acast: Ban Aegislash globally
All Falls Down: Ban Aegislash globally
Anttya: Ban Aegislash globally
Barian: Ban Aegislash globally
Death on Wings: Ban Aegislash globally
Paleo: Ban Aegislash globally
scpinion: Ban Aegislash globally
Acast: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
All Falls Down: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Anttya: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Barian: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Death on Wings: Ban after Hoopa-U suspect
Paleo: Ban Immediately
scpinion: Ban Immediately

Ghost could've been a very viable type if Hoopa gets banned. I guess this means that it is doomed to become one of the lower-used type unless doublade becomes a thing. Goodbye Aegislash, you were good while you lasted.

 

[BlackJak]

imo the aegislash ban has more of an effect on steel type rather than ghost type because of steel's weakness to fighting (i realize that jirachi and metagross exist but aegislash just offers more versatility and adds options to steel). while aegislash is pretty common on ghost teams, i don't think the ghost type will be as affected if it is banned. i'm on the fence about type banning because i see benefits and setbacks to both sides - actually banning an entire type will unbalance the game and mess with a lot of teams, but it may lead to less teams that are too op. i think the council should hold user polls for each time they want to ban a type, so that they know how their decision will affect the community.

i don't know if your new but you do realize aegi is banned on steel a long time ago for many reasons. Also, Aegislash affects ghost a lot. It acts as a mixed or physical attacker, which ghost greatly lacked. You can't tell me lead go lurk covers ghosts physical needs. Aegi acts as a fairy and dragon check thanks to steel typing, and helps absorb most attacks Sableye mega, it's partner, does not want to take. Why would monotype completly ban a type from competitive play? I think your confusing type bans with actual banning of the type when it means banning a Pokemon from said type like Aegislash

 

[Argus2Spooky]

If you haven't guessed, I thoroughly disagree with this decision, but to be honest if that's the direction the council wants to go, I doubt anything the community says will change their mind. With that said, I want to make a few points as to why I personally don't agree with this ban.

First off, I don't really care whether this metagame is "official" or "unofficial," its status doesn't really affect me. I think any metagame should center around its ability to entertain, and its ability to be balanced. I think that countless other official tiers lack what Monotype has simply because a few pokes are allowed to control the entire tier.

Second, I'm not sure what is up with the whole "no complex bans" philosophy. I assume it comes directly from wanting to make the tier "official," which again, doesn't really mean anything to me and probably a lot of the community. If the goal is to bring in more players by making it official, wouldn't it be better to actually improve the metagame than getting it to be recognized as official?

Third, I'd much rather see diversity in the game than abolish complex bans. I think if you ask anybody, you'll hear them mention, at least in part, the abundance of "generic" types, namely Psychic, Flying and Water. I think the metagame should move towards promoting diversity than trying to nerf bottom-usage types for the sake of complex bans. Not sure how many people would say non-sarcastically, "I don't play monotype for fun, I play it to bask in the glory of the complete lack of complex bans."

Last, it really annoys me that a select group of users made this decision for the whole metagame. Pokemon is a game, and while there are rules for the sake competitive viability, I don't think rules like the anti-complex ban policy should take precedence before letting the community have a game that they find enjoyable. I think its clear that the community is pretty split over being apathetic to the change and being against it, with near nobody beyond the council that is for it.

Again, I doubt any of this will change the outcome, but I think the council needs to take into consideration the community's opinions, rather than focusing on making the tier more official-lookin' for future decisions.

 

[badvvollf]

i don't know if your new but you do realize aegi is banned on steel a long time ago for many reasons. Also, Aegislash affects ghost a lot. It acts as a mixed or physical attacker, which ghost greatly lacked. You can't tell me lead go lurk covers ghosts physical needs. Aegi acts as a fairy and dragon check thanks to steel typing, and helps absorb most attacks Sableye mega, it's partner, does not want to take. Why would monotype completly ban a type from competitive play? I think your confusing type bans with actual banning of the type when it means banning a Pokemon from said type like Aegislash

sorry, that was completely my mistake. i misinterpreted the meaning of type bans and i did not take fairy/dragon check into consideration. i agree that aegislash should not be banned from ghost but i am still slightly confused about why it is banned from steel.

 

[BlackJak]

sorry, that was completely my mistake. i misinterpreted the meaning of type bans and i did not take fairy/dragon check into consideration. i agree that aegislash should not be banned from ghost but i am still slightly confused about why it is banned from steel.

On steel, combination of heatran, ferrothorn, skarmory, and Aegislash proved to be trouble for people to beat. Stance Change on steel forced players for 50/50s. This was X and Y meta game too

 

[badvvollf]

On steel, combination of heatran, ferrothorn, skarmory, and Aegislash proved to be trouble for people to beat. Stance Change on steel forced players for 50/50s. This was X and Y meta game too

thanks for elucidating!

 

[Dece1t]

I'm completely appaled by this decision. I agree with Kammi and Argus2Spooky 100%. Diversity should always beat out complex bans or no complex bans. What makes me the most suspicious is that this decision was unanimous, how come the community couldn't have a say in such a game changing decision like that? Not to be rude, and not to sound mad, but I am very disappointed with the actions done here. I sincerely hope the decision is reconsidered. I'd rather not make a giant essay over something that's already widely implied, but I thought I should say something about this. That's all I have to say.

 

[MZ]

This is literally the job of the council. It's not suspicious that the people in charge of things make decisions. If the council decided to remove type bans to make the tier more accessible, that's entirely their prerogative. I assume somebody else will respond to this, but in the meantime what you think a council is for? On that note, while I'm not arguing for either side, how does this unbalance the metagame or make a significant change to the meta? I like Aegislash too but this seems like it's being blown way out of proportion.
edit: idm posts like the one below but attacking the council for making a decision is ridiculous

 

[feen]

Okay I didn't pay much attention to this before but seeing everything is being so weird and all made me give my two cents.

Why are we abolishing complex bans? Is there any way Monotype gonna be an official tier? The current official tiers (OU, UU, RU, NU, PU) all follow the same thing, usage stats. For Monotype to be official, the official tiering policy has to be adverted or its not going to be official anytime soon. I really don't see how abolishing complex bans will benefit the tier. If anything, it's reducing the viability of Ghost-types.

Monotype is definitely an OM and its main goals would be to have a tier that is balanced, a tier where someone can say, "I am a Rock-type Gym Leader!" and show that they are indeed good at doing so. Look at Ice-types for example, they get bodied by Mega Scizor, but cannot do anything to it. This is why Ice-types are so rare, as their viability is quite low. After Aegislash's banning, Ghost monotype will lose viability, which will make the metagame more centralising. Are we building a team to beat against all types? Or 6 types? You make the call.