Ladder ORAS Monotype Discussion

[Physical Tyranitar]

Well, I was just saying that Assault Vest Tyranitar could be a decent-switch in to any type, not just Fairy. I'm not saying it's viable or anything, just an option to consider.

You can always give Fire Punch to Hoopa-U. Between Hyperspace Hole (STAB and coverage again fightings), Gunk Shot (coverage again fairies), Hyperspace Fury / Drain Punch (choice between spammable STAB or fighting coverage with recovery), you still have 1 slot free which you can give to Fire Punch, specially good again scizor and friends.

252 Atk Hoopa Unbound Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Klefki: 206-244 (64.7 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also Mega sableye is a nice stop to klefki too, stopping the spikes stack and resisting play rough:

0 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 102-120 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

It don't matter so much though, because a good played Mega Diancie still steamrolls all darks, unless you somehow start a sweep with your Mega sharpedo with Poison Fang. But again to do that you need first Klefki out of the battle, so pretty much is an uphill battle for darks.


Well, to say the truth even the arguably best core in the tier (skarmory-heatran-ferrothorn/doublade) have only 1 mon with recovery, with ferro having only semi recovery. Instead all megasableye, jellicent, gourgeist on ghost have recovery/semi recovery and on dark too all megasableye, mandibuzz, umbreon have reliable recovery (tyranitar however don't have it). Anyway i agree with you isn't to difficult to break those cores (maybe the dark one is a bit more difficult to do) but in the end all of them are manageable.



To say the truth i think the Mega gallade ban was a bit rushed up. Today people have realized it was mostly hype, because psychics prefer the power of Mega gardevoir, specially again darks (it let them beat mega sableye too), while fightings prefer dual priority and immediate power of mega medicham (Fake out + bullet is great again fairies).
So yeah, now that the council posted the new philosophy, and everyone discussed megaeye, lets get into Hoopa-U now..

>Inb4 im biased again hoopa-u XD
>inb4 lets wait the metagame settle a bit more

This would be right, but the thing is that Klefki has access to Screens. It can pump up its defenses to stomach hits, and maybe cause a switch.
I've been playing Normal more and more often these days, because I see it as a more watered-down version of Fairy with more options. Fairy is a powerful type, but it's far too emasculating in my opinion, and about 90% of the Pokemon are based on female stereotypes. Having a type that is girls-only wasn't a very good business move in my opinion, but it's a powerful type. Assault Vest Snorlax has amazed me, surviving a Close Combat from a Terrakion and walling Mega Charizard Y. Normal has some really good defensive options that are hard to break, like Porygon2, Meloetta, Chansey, Snorlax, Mega Audino, Miltank, and more that give it a fighting chance. Although I think that defensive normal is outclassed.
Now that we're talking about Hoopa-U, I'd say that Choice Scarf Hoopa-Unbound is a godsend to Monotype Dark. They cause a lot of pain to Fighting Monotype Teams, and Hoopa-Unbound's wide coverage makes it a little unpredictable. However, it can't really take out more than two or three mons before being worn down by priority.

 

[Gerard]

If you're so insecure of your masculinity than playing Fairy Monotype threatens it, then you have much bigger issue to work through.

Faerie Type is amazing, the only problem is that it's pool of pokemon are so limited (They really should've changed a lot more pokemon, like Milotic, Shaymin, Blissey, Mismagius, Liligant, etc...). Most Fairy teams end up looking the same. I really hope next gen (or even next game) bring a lot more Fairy tipes to spice the type.

 

[DEG]

Mega Sableye: Long debate happened around Mega Sableye, it got prankster Will-o-Wisp before mega evolving pairing that with it's bulk after mega evolving and amazing hazard control with Magic Bounce, Mega Sableye can wall, weaken or even sweep a large portion of teams. It got the coverage on both Dark and Ghost types, yes ghost users don't defend Sableye-Mega. Thanks to Tyranitar's bulk and typing and even Mandibuzz physical potential, Mega Sableye can easily weaken the opposing team after some Calm Mind and Will-O-Wisp. Meanwhile on Ghost it has better supports in Jellicent, Aegislash and Chandelure. Jellicent and Chandelure both have the ability to sponge fire attacks, and Jellicent have a plus of sponging scalds coming at Mega Sableye, while Aegislash stop fairy moves which isn't present on dark to complete Mega Sableye's utility. Without further words, I suggest sending Mega-Sableye to the shadow realm (see ban).

I'm gonna quote myself from the past to just hover over some points I've made in the past, I'll eventually write a long post about Mega Sableye soon enough when I get less busy.

 

[TheAce22]

Well, I was just saying that Assault Vest Tyranitar could be a decent-switch in to any type, not just Fairy. I'm not saying it's viable or anything, just an option to consider.

This would be right, but the thing is that Klefki has access to Screens. It can pump up its defenses to stomach hits, and maybe cause a switch.
I've been playing Normal more and more often these days, because I see it as a more watered-down version of Fairy with more options. Fairy is a powerful type, but it's far too emasculating in my opinion, and about 90% of the Pokemon are based on female stereotypes. Having a type that is girls-only wasn't a very good business move in my opinion, but it's a powerful type. Assault Vest Snorlax has amazed me, surviving a Close Combat from a Terrakion and walling Mega Charizard Y. Normal has some really good defensive options that are hard to break, like Porygon2, Meloetta, Chansey, Snorlax, Mega Audino, Miltank, and more that give it a fighting chance. Although I think that defensive normal is outclassed.
Now that we're talking about Hoopa-U, I'd say that Choice Scarf Hoopa-Unbound is a godsend to Monotype Dark. They cause a lot of pain to Fighting Monotype Teams, and Hoopa-Unbound's wide coverage makes it a little unpredictable. However, it can't really take out more than two or three mons before being worn down by priority.

Ok so if say flying was a "girly" type then you wouldn't use it? I might be able to see that in K-4th grade but, just from looking at your posts your much older. Also how are they based on female steroetypes lol. If a type is good, use it. I guerentee you no one will insult you for using fairy cause its "girly" unless they are just messing with you.

Chaning to AV snorlax I don't understand the logic of using it at all. The only set that I ever see is a curse rest set which is rare in itself cause Snorlax is a pretty bad option in general. If you want a special wall chansey. If you want a physical attacker use meg loup/diggersby.

Anyways with Hoopa I agree with what you said although Its not very unpredictable. It can be but almost all the sets you run into onn dark are scarf with 3 standard moves and energy ball/drain punch

P.S: Sry, ik this sounds rude, I don't mean for it to be as mean as it sounds

 

[Physical Tyranitar]

Ok so if say flying was a "girly" type then you wouldn't use it? I might be able to see that in K-4th grade but, just from looking at your posts your much older. Also how are they based on female steroetypes lol. If a type is good, use it. I guerentee you no one will insult you for using fairy cause its "girly" unless they are just messing with you.

Chaning to AV snorlax I don't understand the logic of using it at all. The only set that I ever see is a curse rest set which is rare in itself cause Snorlax is a pretty bad option in general. If you want a special wall chansey. If you want a physical attacker use meg loup/diggersby.

Anyways with Hoopa I agree with what you said although Its not very unpredictable. It can be but almost all the sets you run into onn dark are scarf with 3 standard moves and energy ball/drain punch

P.S: Sry, ik this sounds rude, I don't mean for it to be as mean as it sounds

No, you aren't sounding mean at all, I completely agree with you. I sometimes use Assault Vest Snorlax as an offensive switch-in as it has a surprising amount of bulk. The curse set is good, but not viable anymore in my opinion, because with the increase of power with the introduction of Mega Evolutions, Snorlax stills finds itself being 2HKO'd by powerful Special Attackers, even with Max HP and Max Special Defense. The concept of Assault Vest Snorlax is to increase it's physical bulk to good points while it still maintaining an offensive presence; I have the set right here.

Snorlax @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

It turns out that Snorlax has good physical bulk if fully invested. This is my main bulky physical attacker on my Monotype Normal team and it helps me out of a lot of situations. Curse Snorlax still ends up dying to many Pokemon as it can still be 2HKO'd, even at +1, meaning that it will not get a chance to use Rest before it is knocked out, or a switch is imposed, giving you a chance to set up, cripple, switch, set up rocks, etc. Snorlax is a very underrated Pokemon in my opinion, and I think that it's pretty good on a Monotype Normal team. That is my opinion.

 

[Ronman5]

Why was Altaria mega banned in monotype? It might have been somewhat op in flying.. But it was the only thing keeping dragon alive... Let's be honest there now it's ten times tougher for dragon... Dragons now going to be a mid-low used type now with this ban I am highly sure of it... It's going to go down greatly in usage like Bug after the genesect ban...

 

[TheAce22]

Why was Altaria mega banned in monotype? It might have been somewhat op in flying.. But it was the only thing keeping dragon alive... Let's be honest there now it's ten times tougher for dragon... Dragons now going to be a mid-low used type now with this ban I am highly sure of it... It's going to go down greatly in usage like Bug after the genesect ban...

Mega Altaria was banned because (The exact reason being) It indivudually beats 3 types by itself. Those 3 types being Fighting, Dark, Dragon, Fire(Depending on set) and was insanely strong and versatile in general, being able to utulize a heal bell roost set or an eartquake set which could make it unpredictable. Also Dragon doesn't need Mega Altaria, it's a pretty good type still especially since it works pretty well against flying. It still has everything it had before - one op Pokemon that made matchups unfair. It's not even that low in terms of usage, it has went down but is still fairly high. Also It was banned a long time ago, Genesect was banned after Mega Altaria was banned. It happened a few months ago and didn't go down that much as I said above.

 

[terrors]

Why was Altaria mega banned in monotype? It might have been somewhat op in flying.. But it was the only thing keeping dragon alive... Let's be honest there now it's ten times tougher for dragon... Dragons now going to be a mid-low used type now with this ban I am highly sure of it... It's going to go down greatly in usage like Bug after the genesect ban...

Dragon is still absolutely amazing without m-alt (no bias I swear ;/) The reason why mega alt was banned was because it was literally an auto win-con vs normal, water, electric, fighting, dragon, dark etc and created an absolutely impossible matchup between the types. Its bulk + its utility moves (heal bell, roost, dragon dance) made it extremely easy to set up on about half of the metagame.

 

[Vid]

Why was Altaria mega banned in monotype? It might have been somewhat op in flying.. But it was the only thing keeping dragon alive... Let's be honest there now it's ten times tougher for dragon... Dragons now going to be a mid-low used type now with this ban I am highly sure of it... It's going to go down greatly in usage like Bug after the genesect ban...

Couple things about what you are saying
1. The ban on Mega Altaria was a community vote not a council vote so you could have laddered and voted to only ban it on Flying to voice your opinion .
2. Monotype wanted to avoid complex bans so that's why Genesect was ban because it wasn't an absolute "need" on Bug, but it was a nice Poke that would do something every match no matter what type it was facing. Also if they kept Genesect post Zard-X ban bug would definitely be over 10% in usage (around 14-18% )
3. Genesect can run Many items (Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Life Orb, Expert Belt, Douse Drive (water type techno blast for Heatran)
4. Gensect has one of the biggest movepulls in the game. (Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, U-turn, Flamethrower, E-Speed, Iron Head, Flash Cannon, Bug Buzz, Blaze Kick, Techno Blast (Water), Energy Ball, Shift Gear (for physical set up sweepers), Rock Polish( for Special set up sweepers) just listing the good options
5. Dragon is one of better types on upper ladder atm. It beats flying and water with ease which are two very good types to use atm. Also not to mention Mega Garachomp and Latias are very good Megas on dragon.
6. Also Dragon is not a low mid tier type not even close lol. Idk why you think dragon is on fire, fairy, or electrics level when it is a lot better than those types.
7. Also the Genesect Ban helped dragon idk what experience you have with Dragon or bug atm but I can see you haven't used them much post ban or you were on of bandwagon bug users that used bug for Genesect and saying its not op.
8. Mega Alt beat types such as Fighting, Dark, Water, and made Dragon vs Dragon who set up DD first. Those were types that didn't really struggle with dragon to begin with. But Mega Altaria made it easy for dragon to win vs those types that were close to 50% on the matchup tables (besides dark which was in dark's favor before Mega Altaria). Also didn't mention Electric and Grass because they already struggle with Dragon to begin with and banning Mega Altaria didn't change that.
I think both of bans were justified. Those bans after looking back at it made the metagame a lot more balanced.

 

[Ronman5]

Couple things about what you are saying
1. The ban on Mega Altaria was a community vote not a council vote so you could have laddered and voted to only ban it on Flying to voice your opinion .
2. Monotype wanted to avoid complex bans so that's why Genesect was ban because it wasn't an absolute "need" on Bug, but it was a nice Poke that would do something every match no matter what type it was facing. Also if they kept Genesect post Zard-X ban bug would definitely be over 10% in usage (around 14-18% )
3. Genesect can run Many items (Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Life Orb, Expert Belt, Douse Drive (water type techno blast for Heatran)
4. Gensect has one of the biggest movepulls in the game. (Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, U-turn, Flamethrower, E-Speed, Iron Head, Flash Cannon, Bug Buzz, Blaze Kick, Techno Blast (Water), Energy Ball, Shift Gear (for physical set up sweepers), Rock Polish( for Special set up sweepers) just listing the good options
5. Dragon is one of better types on upper ladder atm. It beats flying and water with ease which are two very good types to use atm. Also not to mention Mega Garachomp and Latias are very good Megas on dragon.
6. Also Dragon is not a low mid tier type not even close lol. Idk why you think dragon is on fire, fairy, or electrics level when it is a lot better than those types.
7. Also the Genesect Ban helped dragon idk what experience you have with Dragon or bug atm but I can see you haven't used them much post ban or you were on of bandwagon bug users that used bug for Genesect and saying its not op.
8. Mega Alt beat types such as Fighting, Dark, Water, and made Dragon vs Dragon who set up DD first. Those were types that didn't really struggle with dragon to begin with. But Mega Altaria made it easy for dragon to win vs those types that were close to 50% on the matchup tables (besides dark which was in dark's favor before Mega Altaria). Also didn't mention Electric and Grass because they already struggle with Dragon to begin with and banning Mega Altaria didn't change that.
I think both of bans were justified. Those bans after looking back at it made the metagame a lot more balanced.

Honestly I had no trouble with mega alt I don't even know why it was op.. Sure it recks dark (unless you got sash bisharp) fighting (unless you used cobalion bulky) water is new to me since water has a counter in azumarill and Pokemon such as empoleon... Also you completely missed it I didn't say genesect was unfair I said this is going to hurt Dragon as much as losing genesect hurt bug... Dragon users have to adapt by having three kinda shitty megas or no mega (like steel but in steels case it has a ton of Pokemon that work well normally) also altaria added no ice defense or fairy defence so... But I do agree for dragon but in that case you do have this thing called dragalage that stops alt mega... Tbh altaria was the only thing keeping dragon from being shit, people know how to counter dnite, garchomp, etc. so well that

And don't say complex bans cause then I go to exhibit aegislash... Alt needed something like that as its op on flying but is one of the few things that kept dragon relavent

Also op vs grass and electric? Sure for grass unless it uses Venu mega like most grass so it would counter it or send out ferrothkrn to disincourage attacking and get leech seed and gyro ball on it, electric magnezone with a ballon/ eelektross with a poison move can counter... Somewhat.. The best counts in that situation would be rotom w.

 

[Josh]

i havent posted here in a while, but im gonna break this post down because it bothers me

Honestly I had no trouble with mega alt I don't even know why it was op.. Sure it recks dark (unless you got sash bisharp) fighting (unless you used cobalion bulky) water is new to me since water has a counter in azumarill and Pokemon such as empoleon... Also you completely missed it I didn't say genesect was unfair I said this is going to hurt Dragon as much as losing genesect hurt bug... Dragon users have to adapt by having three kinda shitty megas or no mega (like steel but in steels case it has a ton of Pokemon that work well normally) also altaria added no ice defense or fairy defence so... But I do agree for dragon but in that case you do have this thing called dragalage that stops alt mega... Tbh altaria was the only thing keeping dragon from being shit, people know how to counter dnite, garchomp, etc. so well that

And don't say complex bans cause then I go to exhibit aegislash... Alt needed something like that as its op on flying but is one of the few things that kept dragon relavent

lol?

azumarill a counter?
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 382-451 (99.4 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
If it switches in on a return unboosted, its cleanly 2hkod, and if it switches in on a dragon dance its just bopped

empoleon is a check, a soft one
+1 252+ Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Empoleon: 352-416 (94.8 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
and even if malt and empoleon are in a 1v1 situation, malt still wins because it lives a flash cannon and 2hkos with unboosted eq


bug is still good even without genesect, its just not the best anymore like it was. its still a very viable type.

dragalge also does not stop m-alt, i dont know where youre getting this info.
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 348-409 (108.4 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
that is the standard dragalge spread. it may ohko m-alt, but that doesnt mean it deals with it; id barely call dragalge a check.


the part of your post that really bugs me though, is this

altaria was the only thing keeping dragon from being shit, people know how to counter dnite, garchomp, etc.

um... LOL? dragon is still a very solid type, "people know how to counter dnite, garchomp" no shit lol people know how to counter everything, because if something is uncounterable it is broken and is banned ie mega zard x and mega alt.
dragon is still very relevant

They've already addressed Aegislash. Mono doesn't want complex bans because all official smogon tiers hate them and mono is trying to fit in. Aegislash and Mega Sableye are the only things keeping ghost as a viable type, without either of them it'll tank a lot in viability. Whereas, bug can live without genesect for example as it does right now.


Don't view this as a personal attack, but dude, do some research before you post.

 

[Ronman5]

Dragon is not a good type when the only dragon team you see now is basically
Garchomp, dragalage, latios and latias, kyurem black and salamence/dnite every team is basically the same.... As soon as you all figure that out its super easy to counter dragon since every one used the same mons just like bug, this makes them too predictable and when your predictable you've practically lost

Hell I countered dragon with every single type even dragon itself... And all you have to do is predict the oh so predictable dragons... That's how I can get my ass kicked at bug now since bug uses the same 6-7 Pokemon

 

[SubMindRaikou]

Honestly I had no trouble with mega alt I don't even know why it was op.. Sure it recks dark (unless you got sash bisharp) fighting (unless you used cobalion bulky) water is new to me since water has a counter in azumarill and Pokemon such as empoleon... Also you completely missed it I didn't say genesect was unfair I said this is going to hurt Dragon as much as losing genesect hurt bug... Dragon users have to adapt by having three kinda shitty megas or no mega (like steel but in steels case it has a ton of Pokemon that work well normally) also altaria added no ice defense or fairy defence so... But I do agree for dragon but in that case you do have this thing called dragalage that stops alt mega... Tbh altaria was the only thing keeping dragon from being shit, people know how to counter dnite, garchomp, etc. so well that

And don't say complex bans cause then I go to exhibit aegislash... Alt needed something like that as its op on flying but is one of the few things that kept dragon relavent

Also op vs grass and electric? Sure for grass unless it uses Venu mega like most grass so it would counter it or send out ferrothkrn to disincourage attacking and get leech seed and gyro ball on it, electric magnezone with a ballon/ eelektross with a poison move can counter... Somewhat.. The best counts in that situation would be rotom w.

^^ what josh said
also sash bisharp doesnt work since cotton guard versions wall it
252 Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. +3 248 HP / 136+ Def Mega Altaria: 78-92 (22 - 26%) -- 3.7% chance to 4HKO
(standard kdd w/ cotton guard thrown on)
0 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 154-183 (56.8 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(you dont even need dd to kill sharp)

same thing w/ coballion and also twave + iron head doesnt work since heal bell exists

Dragon is not a good type when the only dragon team you see now is basically
Garchomp, dragalage, latios and latias, kyurem black and salamence/dnite every team is basically the same.... As soon as you all figure that out its super easy to counter dragon since every one used the same mons just like bug, this makes them too predictable and when your predictable you've practically lost

Hell I countered dragon with every single type even dragon itself... And all you have to do is predict the oh so predictable dragons... That's how I can get my ass kicked at bug now since bug uses the same 6-7 Pokemon

even with malt and generekt dragon and bug were still very generic, the difference was it was a bunch harder to counter since the pokemon themselves have very few or little to no actual 100% counters since a set that might beat scarf genesect could be rekt by specs generekt or something that beats offensive malt gets rekt by kdd mega alt, etc, that made malt broken and generekt borderline they-dont-wanna-put-this-back-onto-steel kinda broken. Also if your opponents using dragon are predictable thats their fault, not the type since noone is forcing dragon users to not make plays, and noone is forcing the dragon user to not use different sets (lum/wp dd dragonite, band kyub, mlatias, tyrantrum etc.)

 

[Ronman5]

I agree fairly with your statement.. It's just weird you all think dragon is still a good type.. It isn't... Nothing counters ice or fairy well, water types practically every Pokemon carry ice beam on that type, and every other type... Grass has some trouble so does electric unless you play your options right like ice power thunderous or bug buzz galv with ice power (for Latis and dragons) rock can fuck them over once garchomp is gone though they will have a hard time killing gar, flying is just too op so it would rape it anyways with same with steel. Bug depends on scissor or not, Normal can do it with lopunny mega with both porygon 2 and chansey, dragon well counters it self, fire would have a tough time like normal, psychic carries a ton of fairy moves, poison would be rough..... But gengar makes a iffy counter venu mega a better one though.. Ghost has aegislash +gengar to rape, should I even go on?

But still just my opinion...

 

[Ronman5]

Now I'm done about dragon let's talk about hoopa u... And why that's probably in limbo...

 

[TheAce22]

I agree fairly with your statement.. It's just weird you all think dragon is still a good type.. It isn't... Nothing counters ice or fairy well, water types practically every Pokemon carry ice beam on that type, and every other type... Grass has some trouble so does electric unless you play your options right like ice power thunderous or bug buzz galv with ice power (for Latis and dragons) rock can fuck them over once garchomp is gone though they will have a hard time killing gar, flying is just too op so it would rape it anyways with same with steel. Bug depends on scissor or not, Normal can do it with lopunny mega with both porygon 2 and chansey, dragon well counters it self, fire would have a tough time like normal, psychic carries a ton of fairy moves, poison would be rough..... But gengar makes a iffy counter venu mega a better one though.. Ghost has aegislash +gengar to rape, should I even go on?

But still just my opinion...

Literally what. This is really annoying me, your not even making valid points.

Yes, on Dragon nothing counters ice or fairy well but if your playing dragon you honestly shouldn't be expecting to beat those types. Ice is pretty uncommon anyways. Grass and Electric have a lot more than a little bit of trouble kyurem black tears apart grass and electric is destroyed by the entire type, with, or without galvantula. Alright so rock isn't the best matchup ever it is beatable and rock is the least used type, not much to worry about. Dragon beats flying, what lol especially with kyurem and a good rocker. Steel is tough but if you play garchomp right it's possible to win. It basically loses to normal like you said. Fire gets destroyed by it. I would continue but I g2g

 

[DoW]

I agree fairly with your statement.. It's just weird you all think dragon is still a good type.. It isn't... Nothing counters ice or fairy well, water types practically every Pokemon carry ice beam on that type, and every other type... Grass has some trouble so does electric unless you play your options right like ice power thunderous or bug buzz galv with ice power (for Latis and dragons) rock can fuck them over once garchomp is gone though they will have a hard time killing gar, flying is just too op so it would rape it anyways with same with steel. Bug depends on scissor or not, Normal can do it with lopunny mega with both porygon 2 and chansey, dragon well counters it self, fire would have a tough time like normal, psychic carries a ton of fairy moves, poison would be rough..... But gengar makes a iffy counter venu mega a better one though.. Ghost has aegislash +gengar to rape, should I even go on?

But still just my opinion...

lol yeah dragon auto-loses to everything it's totes not good at all
also it auto-loses to ice as you can see here http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-284300343

Seriously though, dragon is an extremely good, and currently underrated, type. Not many teams actually fully prepare for the offensive pressure it can exert, while it has multiple bulky mons capable of taking hits and hitting back hard. Specs Dragalge, Latios, Dragonite, and of course Kyurem-B are good examples, any one of which is likely to be an outstanding member of a team of the other type. Sure, the type can struggle against things like M-Garde, however overall it's a surprisingly balanced and strong team, and I encourage you to try it if you don't agree.

 

[Dece1t]

What the hell did I walk into.......

As for this MAlt situation, Dragon is still very good, its a great hyper offensive type with immense coverage to hit nearly all the metagame. It's fine without mega altaria, I've even been toying around with no mega, and it's still excellent.

For Hoopa, I think I've stated my opinion about it enough, but I feel like Dark sorta needs it, as its another fairy check (sorta), and helps immensly with fighting. So most of the time your forced to run it scarfed. For psychic, this is where you can argue for a complex ban on it. (note that I said argue, not actually make it happen) On psychic you do not need to run it scarf, so it's in a sense unpredictable. It also completely destroys ghost, where before that matchup with fairy balanced, maybe in favor of ghost. There's also the fact that psychic got Mega Gallade back, not nessisarily OP, but on the team it has amaizng support, with a great speed stat that outspeeds majority of the mid-high speed tiered meta. That, with Hoopa, and a ton of other toys to choose from, psychic is a tiny bit borderline OP atm, it's by no means dominating, it has compeition against flying, the new found popularity of dark, as well as water (that typically carries mega gyarados or sharpedo), and steel (which carries bisharp a lot of time, and resists the stab attacks). Otherwise, meta's pretty balanced atm, I can't complain (although, ground is not lower tier at all, its lower than even ghost, that's a disgrace lol)

 

[AviatorDragon]

Dragon is still an incredibly viable type without MegaAlt, and MegaAlt is incredibly op imo. It gets so many options and has fantastic typing, and like people above said not much can check it, and those that can are pretty clutch checks. Dragon still has stuff like Garchomp, and DDance Dragonite is a monster even with just one DDance. Also you have scarf KyuB, which is a good ice type check. Dragon is still good without MegaAlt.

Bug has gone down in usage, but Genesect kinda needs to be gone. Bug still has a wide variety of options without Genesect. Bug has a variety of powerful megas like Scizor, Beedrill, and Pinsir to name a few. Not much can switch in on a +2 Bpunch from Mega Scizor. Plus, Genesect is an uber, which is never fun on mono, though I do think that ghost needs Aegi.

I agree with Stunfisk on Hoopa.

 

[lax]

Eh, dragon is still a "good type" (every type is sort of if used correctly.) but can now lose vs a lot of types with mega altaria gone. EX: psychic, dark's chance of beating dragon increased by like 60%, water has a chance if you make amazing plays (kyu b still bops water but alt p much 6-0'd it with kyu b), fighting has a chance (gallade unban, alt ban), normal without ditto, grass when or if ferrothorn faints, more types probably. Also the types it originally lost to like ground, fairy, P2 normal. There are many types dragon loses to but now I guess you could call dragon a more "skillful" type now because it requires more skill than aimlessly clicking dragon dance + frustration + roost + heal bell.

Also agree completely with Stunfisk The Great on the hoopa matter leave hoopa be :[

 

[terrors]

This is pretty stupid because imo dragon is still one of the top types. Sure it struggles with psychic and dark but there's a reason psychic is the top type right now and what I feel is the reason for dark's win/loss ratio against dragon is Mega Sableye.

Now mega sab was discussed quite a lot on the forums a few days ago but I'm surprised how NO ONE brought up that dragon has little chance of beating a well-played CM mega sableye without mega altaria. Specs Dragalge isn't even a good check because +1 mega sab takes a draco and just recovers off and proceeds to set up CM. Not to mention how ghost has aegislash and dark has ttar to just switch in on Dragalge and slowly wear it down. Band dnite can beat mega sab if its low enough but, again, aegislash or mandibuzz can just come in to bulk up the hit. LO Sub Kyub can check mega sab but thats a pretty uncommon set and, again, can be countered by the team. I do not think mega sableye is OP on its own but the team support it gets in BOTH of its types is a bit too much for some types.

I'm not calling for a suspect; I just want to put this out there that dragon too has a hard time vs mega sableye. Lets leave hoopa u alone for now [:

 

[DoW]

This is pretty stupid because imo dragon is still one of the top types. Sure it struggles with psychic and dark but there's a reason psychic is the top type right now and what I feel is the reason for dark's win/loss ratio against dragon is Mega Sableye.

Now mega sab was discussed quite a lot on the forums a few days ago but I'm surprised how NO ONE brought up that dragon has little chance of beating a well-played CM mega sableye without mega altaria. Specs Dragalge isn't even a good check because +1 mega sab takes a draco and just recovers off and proceeds to set up CM. Not to mention how ghost has aegislash and dark has ttar to just switch in on Dragalge and slowly wear it down. Band dnite can beat mega sab if its low enough but, again, aegislash or mandibuzz can just come in to bulk up the hit. LO Sub Kyub can check mega sab but thats a pretty uncommon set and, again, can be countered by the team. I do not think mega sableye is OP on its own but the team support it gets in BOTH of its types is a bit too much for some types.

I'm not calling for a suspect; I just want to put this out there that dragon too has a hard time vs mega sableye. Lets leave hoopa u alone for now [:

SubSD Chomp, while uncommon, is a very good check to M-Sab, while the more common tankchomp can phaze it with dragon tail. Sub Kyu-B, another very good set, is capable of beating M-Sab, while lum or specs attackers such as Dnite, Dragalge and Goodra can put a lot of pressure on M-Sab. It's not an easy mon to beat, sure, but you can definitely prepare for it and the pressure it puts on teambuilding stops people from just spamming outrage, which is a good thing.

 

[TheAce22]

This is pretty stupid because imo dragon is still one of the top types. Sure it struggles with psychic and dark but there's a reason psychic is the top type right now and what I feel is the reason for dark's win/loss ratio against dragon is Mega Sableye.

Now mega sab was discussed quite a lot on the forums a few days ago but I'm surprised how NO ONE brought up that dragon has little chance of beating a well-played CM mega sableye without mega altaria. Specs Dragalge isn't even a good check because +1 mega sab takes a draco and just recovers off and proceeds to set up CM. Not to mention how ghost has aegislash and dark has ttar to just switch in on Dragalge and slowly wear it down. Band dnite can beat mega sab if its low enough but, again, aegislash or mandibuzz can just come in to bulk up the hit. LO Sub Kyub can check mega sab but thats a pretty uncommon set and, again, can be countered by the team. I do not think mega sableye is OP on its own but the team support it gets in BOTH of its types is a bit too much for some types.

I'm not calling for a suspect; I just want to put this out there that dragon too has a hard time vs mega sableye. Lets leave hoopa u alone for now [:

Ok so there are some things I don't understand in this post so I will provide some calcs for what your saying


Yep, Specs Draglage loses to it.

Band Dragonite destroys Mandibuzz, Sab, and if u earthquake on the incoming aegislash that works too.

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 204-240 (67.1 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band burned Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 102-120 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As you can see it doesn't have to be low enough hp, Dragonite just hits it twice.

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 253-298 (59.8 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Thats not a switchin

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aegislash-Shield: 258-304 (79.6 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also LO sub Kyurem may be uncommon but if people are struggling with it that much its still a pretty decent set.

 

[Day Healer]

Assault Vest Snorlax has amazed me, surviving a Close Combat from a Terrakion and walling Mega Charizard Y. Normal has some really good defensive options that are hard to break, like Porygon2, Meloetta, Chansey, Snorlax, Mega Audino, Miltank, and more that give it a fighting chance. Although I think that defensive normal is outclassed.

Try Assault vest meloetta. Same special bulk than AV snorlax, offensive presence (but in spe attack side) and have synergy with the team, being neutral to fight attacks and pwning them with psychic STAB. You lose a physical attacker, but u can always replace snorlax for Staraptor maybe. Just a suggestion :3

lol yeah dragon auto-loses to everything it's totes not good at all
also it auto-loses to ice as you can see here http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/monotype-284300343

Seriously though, dragon is an extremely good, and currently underrated, type. Not many teams actually fully prepare for the offensive pressure it can exert, while it has multiple bulky mons capable of taking hits and hitting back hard. Specs Dragalge, Latios, Dragonite, and of course Kyurem-B are good examples, any one of which is likely to be an outstanding member of a team of the other type. Sure, the type can struggle against things like M-Garde, however overall it's a surprisingly balanced and strong team, and I encourage you to try it if you don't agree.

One battle hardly proves anything, specially when piloswine is on there (yeah, i know its good at tankin hits and does well again fire, but i prefer the power and speed of weavile in dat slot personally)
Anyways i agree with you in the rest of your post (and with the other posters) about how monodragon is still very viable. Ok, megalataria ban was a hard blow for them (me cri lol), but is still very viable, and if you are having problems with it, maybe the problem is in your teambuild skills, no in the type availability.

Now mega sab was discussed quite a lot on the forums a few days ago but I'm surprised how NO ONE brought up that dragon has little chance of beating a well-played CM mega sableye without mega altaria. Specs Dragalge isn't even a good check because +1 mega sab takes a draco and just recovers off and proceeds to set up CM. Not to mention how ghost has aegislash and dark has ttar to just switch in on Dragalge and slowly wear it down. Band dnite can beat mega sab if its low enough but, again, aegislash or mandibuzz can just come in to bulk up the hit. LO Sub Kyub can check mega sab but thats a pretty uncommon set and, again, can be countered by the team. I do not think mega sableye is OP on its own but the team support it gets in BOTH of its types is a bit too much for some types.

Usually Dragon dancers with lum berry (Dnite, tyrantrum) does good again it, and if they switch Mandibuzz or Aegislash they are gonna be hit by a +1 Outrage or Earthquake anyway. Then Sub Kyurem-B is another answer. Yeah you need prediction to beat megaeye with a monodragon, but it can be done anyways.

Also agree completely with Stunfisk The Great on the hoopa matter leave hoopa be :[

Lets leave hoopa u alone for now [:

You will need more discussions than these one liners to convince people hoopa-u is not broken tho

 

[Entei]

Just dropping this by, so you all can finally open your eyes.

-special thanks to rnbs!