Resource ORAS OU Sets Viability Rankings V3 - Thread Closed (See Post #147)

[Kutscher]

in the viability ranking thread some people were talking about mixed meoletta, cm meloetta, special defense(cleric) and mixed AV. but i don't know what set make meloetta viable, i think is the mixed LO.

 

[AM]

I'd rank mixed LO meloetta. I also don't think Defensive M-Venusaur should be in the same rank as offensive. More or less the main issue stems from its over dependency in so many matches to consolidate its defensive role on top of being a water check, Scald switch in, hazard prone. The longevity issue is a thing with both variants, but the fact that defensive variant will always fail to provide an immediate offensive presence to fight back against stuff like Calm Mind Clefable, Lati switch ins, still gets destroyed by the same stuff even with all the supposed bulk it has gained, doesn't make it seem fit to cater it to a fully defensive role when said defensive traits are just there to provide a specific asset or to overkill stuff that realistically it would still beat anyways with more offensive variant or just tank variant, things like Keldeo and M-Altaria as examples.

Every team is prepared for subtoxic Gliscor now since they're packing Clefable, status absorbers, M-Gard is seeing more usage, more or less nobody cares about this set. It's prepared for without a real thought process. B- please, as you still can break down poorly built teams and or offensive teams that are kind of just shitty and focus too much on physical offense.

Specially Defensive Excadrill drop because it's lost a ton of relevancy and or effectiveness in any given match it's being used on. B/B- for that, I'm more inclined for B- because Sand Rush and Scarf is so much more appealing for both offensive, balance, and ones that utilize sand cores. SpDef Gyarados to B-. Its fame was a sort of check to Landorus, it's gone now, and acts as a somewhat shitty check to stuff like Gengar and Charizard-Y when in the end in practice it just dies due to rocks damage and the opposing player knowing how to work around it easily.

Custap should just go to C on Skarmory set. Every time I see a Skarmory it's never Custap because most people have come to the conclusion it blows, and that teams would rather run it as a pivot of sorts to soak up hits by things like M-Diancie or to phase out with Whirlwind while having both longevity with Roost and access to Spikes, which it can lay down throughout the match.

Choice Scarf Latios shouldn't be A+ after giving it some thought process. A is fine, the other sets are just much more appealing and have more splashability. I think SubCM Keldeo has overall lost its effectiveness in the meta-game and will overall net you a couple of neat hits in the game but realistically you're better off using Specs or even Life Orb / Taunt variants.

I think Choice Scarf Heatran is mediocre but my opinion isn't really strong on that one but that's something to think about.

I'd like all of Char-X's sets with the exception of double dance to be in A+ at this point in time. They're really underrated x_x like Dragon Tail / WillOWisp on semi-stall with Skarmory and bulky DDance is solid cause of Lando-T usage decrease so people have sort of come to the conclusion that Jolly isn't even a necessity on a lot of teams you're using Char-X on. This gives it more breathing room to use all these effectively as such this is where my line of thinking is coming from.

I think Defensive Togekiss, is extremely overrated. Togekiss's best trait is being a balance breaker, something I believe it will fail at utiziling a defensive set because defensive variants lack the speed to hit things like Bisharp and Breloom due to the nature of how its EVs are spread out.

Reuniclus is weird cause Choice Specs is kind of bonkers but you got something so foreign on most teams like the Trick Room set at C. I personally would give a nod to Specs Reuniclus at C-, it's a bit hard to use Specs Future Sight does things like bring down most Manaphy variants to 8% or blow back stuff like Clefable at full health potentially depending on the variant. What's the allure of SpDef Zapdos now?

Infernape is all over the place. Mixed nape is mediocre at best, defensive is the bread and butter in my eyes since Weavile and M-Scizor are such big threats in the meta, the others I have no real opinion on.

I'd call Tangrowth Pivot, that's what it really does.

 

[p2]

I think Scarf Heatran shouldn't go any lower than B+. It's a solid mon and a good scarfer on offense, but it really misses its utility in stallbreaking or being a great SR setter.

I don't really know what else to say, but I don't think ScarfTran is worthy of A at all.

 

[Kutscher]

i think togekiss viability should be more especific, like in the togekiss analysis we have 2 sets, both are defensives and both have NP. when this thread was made the analysis had NP Togekiss(lot of spa/spe), paraflinch, and NP + BP. i agree with AM, and the more offensive set is the better, but the two defensives still good, both ParaFlinch and NP+BP aren't that good, but they can still viable(something like C+ or C)

 

[firehusky]

Mega Absol is missing an all out attacker / mixed set. I guess C is fine.

 

[Kye]

Sorry If I'm wrong but what keeps dragonite's DD set at B+, same tier as CB set? While I don't believe dragonite as a whole is worthy of B+, I don't see its DD set being B+ worthy. I'm simply just repeating what has been said already in the previous pages but due to the lack of immediate power and better DD candidates (i.e. mega altaria, mega charizard x, and mega gyarados), I think it should be dropped.

 

[urban]

I'd rank mixed LO meloetta. I also don't think Defensive M-Venusaur should be in the same rank as offensive. More or less the main issue stems from its over dependency in so many matches to consolidate its defensive role on top of being a water check, Scald switch in, hazard prone. The longevity issue is a thing with both variants, but the fact that defensive variant will always fail to provide an immediate offensive presence to fight back against stuff like Calm Mind Clefable, Lati switch ins, still gets destroyed by the same stuff even with all the supposed bulk it has gained, doesn't make it seem fit to cater it to a fully defensive role when said defensive traits are just there to provide a specific asset or to overkill stuff that realistically it would still beat anyways with more offensive variant or just tank variant, things like Keldeo and M-Altaria as examples.
Got it with Meloetta. Agree on Def M-Venu as well. Over reliance as a check to a bunch of things hold it back and the prominence of weather and low PP of synthesis is anything but helpful.

Every team is prepared for subtoxic Gliscor now since they're packing Clefable, status absorbers, M-Gard is seeing more usage, more or less nobody cares about this set. It's prepared for without a real thought process. B- please, as you still can break down poorly built teams and or offensive teams that are kind of just shitty and focus too much on physical offense.
Yeah, agreeing again. I've always hated the SubToxic Gliscor set, and it was only ranked as highly as it was at your request. Glad you've seen the light. Lol. n_n

Specially Defensive Excadrill drop because it's lost a ton of relevancy and or effectiveness in any given match it's being used on. B/B- for that, I'm more inclined for B- because Sand Rush and Scarf is so much more appealing for both offensive, balance, and ones that utilize sand cores. SpDef Gyarados to B-. Its fame was a sort of check to Landorus, it's gone now, and acts as a somewhat shitty check to stuff like Gengar and Charizard-Y when in the end in practice it just dies due to rocks damage and the opposing player knowing how to work around it easily.
SpDef Drill on its own isn't great, but I've found quite a bit of use with the AV set. The sets function similarly enough that I'll just slash them and call it B. SpDef Gyara lost its main niche. Rocks weakness and no reliable recovery hurts.

Custap should just go to C on Skarmory set. Every time I see a Skarmory it's never Custap because most people have come to the conclusion it blows, and that teams would rather run it as a pivot of sorts to soak up hits by things like M-Diancie or to phase out with Whirlwind while having both longevity with Roost and access to Spikes, which it can lay down throughout the match.
I agree Custap Skarm is such a waste as a lead mon when you could be using stuff with good offensive presence like Lando or Chomp. It's also extremely exploitable and the niche of Spikes + killing itself with Brave Bird isn't really worth it.

Choice Scarf Latios shouldn't be A+ after giving it some thought process. A is fine, the other sets are just much more appealing and have more splashability. I think SubCM Keldeo has overall lost its effectiveness in the meta-game and will overall net you a couple of neat hits in the game but realistically you're better off using Specs or even Life Orb / Taunt variants.
I agree enough to move it down. I think A is good though and not much lower than that. Being able to outspeed every relevant DD'er even if they get to +1 is a huge asset and Latios has coverage to boot.

I think Choice Scarf Heatran is mediocre but my opinion isn't really strong on that one but that's something to think about.
I agree. I actually moved it all the way down to B+ after using it and seeing it used a bunch lately. It gets held back by the fact that most of the moves it locks into are exploitable.

I'd like all of Char-X's sets with the exception of double dance to be in A+ at this point in time. They're really underrated x_x like Dragon Tail / WillOWisp on semi-stall with Skarmory and bulky DDance is solid cause of Lando-T usage decrease so people have sort of come to the conclusion that Jolly isn't even a necessity on a lot of teams you're using Char-X on. This gives it more breathing room to use all these effectively as such this is where my line of thinking is coming from.
Yes. CharX is huge atm. All of its sets are really useful. Checks a shit ton of stuff on offense by taking a hit, DD'ing and then sweeping. Solid bulk and typing and insane power thanks to Tough Claws.

I think Defensive Togekiss, is extremely overrated. Togekiss's best trait is being a balance breaker, something I believe it will fail at utiziling a defensive set because defensive variants lack the speed to hit things like Bisharp and Breloom due to the nature of how its EVs are spread out.
Yeah, I agree. Rocks weakness and the fact that it really can't even Defog well thanks to Bisharp aren't fun.

Reuniclus is weird cause Choice Specs is kind of bonkers but you got something so foreign on most teams like the Trick Room set at C. I personally would give a nod to Specs Reuniclus at C-, it's a bit hard to use Specs Future Sight does things like bring down most Manaphy variants to 8% or blow back stuff like Clefable at full health potentially depending on the variant. What's the allure of SpDef Zapdos now?
Added Specs Reuni and lowered TR to the same ranking at C-. SpDef Zapdos is shit and practically useless with Lando's exit. Not Sure how low to drop it though.

Infernape is all over the place. Mixed nape is mediocre at best, defensive is the bread and butter in my eyes since Weavile and M-Scizor are such big threats in the meta, the others I have no real opinion on.
I think I fixed it.

I'd call Tangrowth Pivot, that's what it really does.
Done.

Replies in bold.

Mega Absol is missing an all out attacker / mixed set. I guess C is fine.

Aight. Added at C- cause it really isn't all that powerful without an item and its held back by the same frailty issues that affect the SD set.

Sorry If I'm wrong but what keeps dragonite's DD set at B+, same tier as CB set? While I don't believe dragonite as a whole is worthy of B+, I don't see its DD set being B+ worthy. I'm simply just repeating what has been said already in the previous pages but due to the lack of immediate power and better DD candidates (i.e. mega altaria, mega charizard x, and mega gyarados), I think it should be dropped.

DD Dragonite has a niche worthy of B+ because of all of the set up opportunities it gets thanks to Multiscale. Access to plenty of coverage options gives it a good amount of versatility too - Dragon STAB, the elemental punches, Earthquake, and Espeed all come to mind. Hell, it can even run Roost to reactivate multiscale and boost again. Yeah, it needs rocks support, but all Dnite sets do.

 

[Kutscher]

can somebody answer me about togekiss? please.

 

[WhiteQueen]

Has this Slowbro set been mentioned yet?

Slowbro @ Leftovers
252HP/232Def/24Sp.Def
Bold Nature
---
Scald
Calm Mind
Thunder Wave
Slack Off

This set not only checks boosting physical attackers (most notably Charizard-X), but it's also a nice win condition. It's similar to Calm Mind & Magic Guard Clefable. It defends, annoys, and wins games from time to time. One set that accomplishes three major tasks is too good to not use.

 

[AM]

Has this Slowbro set been mentioned yet?

Slowbro @ Leftovers
252HP/232Def/24Sp.Def
Bold Nature
---
Scald
Calm Mind
Thunder Wave
Slack Off

This set not only checks boosting physical attackers (most notably Charizard-X), but it's also a nice win condition. It's similar to Calm Mind & Magic Guard Clefable. It defends, annoys, and wins games from time to time. One set that accomplishes three major tasks is too good to not use.

it is under calm mind slowbro

Speaking of which that should be A. It is really good :o

 

[MANNAT]

One thing a lot of people take for granted on bro is iron defense, it lets it become basically invincible in conjunction with calm mind and lets it sweep teams with ease given a chance to set up.

 

[Cheryl.]

How is Scarftran B+ it hits very hard and is pretty speedy as well

 

[Celticpride]

How is Scarftran B+ it hits very hard and is pretty speedy as well

None of its moves are that great to be locked into. The best Choice users have solid moves that you can just click relatively risk-free. Lando-T is a great example because U-Turn has very little downside and can be used quite freely because of that. Compare that to Fire Blast (probably ScarfTran's most spammable move) which can give up switch-ins to a lot of different things.

 

[MANNAT]

Sub+SD chomp should be added as it can set up on quite a few mons, and it can tear apart slower teams after a boost or 2.

 

[p2]

Sub+SD chomp should be added as it can set up on quite a few mons, and it can tear apart slower teams after a boost or 2.

I think that one just goes under Sub+Salac

 

[MANNAT]

I think that one just goes under Sub+Salac

oh, i run it with yache berry, so i thought it was another set.

 

[urban]

Sub+SD chomp should be added as it can set up on quite a few mons, and it can tear apart slower teams after a boost or 2.

Yeah, I'll edit the Salac Berry set to be just Sub + SD Garchomp. Item choice is team specific, and yache/salac are both viable options that function similarly enough.

VR Thread updated. Implementing these changes now.

VR Thread Update

Reuniclus: B > B+
Scolipede: B > B+
Amoonguss: B > B-
Chesnaught: B+ > B-
Excadrill: A > A+

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Krookodile is now C rank and here is the set:
Krookodile @ Dread Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Just call it pursuit trapper/offensive support.

Also the E rank is added

E Rank

Abomasnow (Mega)
Aerodactyl
Arcanine
Cacturne
Crobat
Ditto
Doublade
Durant
Exploud
Galvantula
Gogoat
Heliolisk
Jolteon
Ludicolo
Machamp
Moltres
Ninetales
Poliwrath
Porygon-z
Registeel
Shedinja
Sigilyph
Slurpuff
Snorlax
Steelix (Mega)
Stoutland
Stunfisk
Swellow
Tornadus
Uxie
Venomoth
Virizion
Weezing
Xatu
Yanmega
Zoroark

 

[AM]

Sets for E ranks I don't think is entirely necessary and may or may not be right anyways based on various judgement and opinions anyways. I'd hold off on that for awhile since E Rank is a really loose rank anyways.

 

[Lord Wallace]

Charizard X's Offensive Dragon Dance set should probably go to S at this point.
It's the best/most viable set right now and also the one that pushed Zard back into S overall in the first place.

 

[Cheryl.]

Could we add a Swords Dance sweeper set in Mega Garchomp's sets? I say it's B rank

 

[Cheryl.]

Also, add the Sub SD Salac set under Lando-T's sets.

 

[p2]

Please add Superachi (CM 3 attacks) somewhere, I'm thinking B right now and Scarf Celebi to maybe B-.

Jirachis a really neat CM user with a bunch of coverage moves which can really limit the checks and counters it has once it starts boosting and its typing is pretty solid for it aswell, being able to use fairies as setup bait and Serene Grace is pretty great when it comes to increasing the chances of effects happening (ie Thunder para, Moonblast drop)

Scarf Celebi is a pretty neat set as well, being able to take on a bunch of Water types and an unexpected revenge killer against mons like Mega Gyara, Manaphy, Mega Lop, Mega Beedrill, and a bunch of other mons. Its access to Trick lets it cripple walls like Chansey or Clefable. It faces competition from Serperior, but Celebi has way better coverage, Healing Wish and Psychic STAB which is great with stuff like Venu everywhere.

 

[AM]

I wouldn't add CM Jirachi, I'd add Expert Belt Jirachi though at B+.

 

[Analytic]

I'd probably raise Hippowdon's Mixed set to an A+. That set checks so many pokemon in the metagame such as Bisharp, Talonflame, fast electric-types like M-Manectric and Thundurus, M-Metagross, M-Altaria, Excadrill, and I could go on and on about it. I feel that a pokemon who blanket checks so many metagame threats deserves a rise to A+.