Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[Arcanine is Regal]

Sorry for bringing some of these up a bit late, but I was busy shoving my face full of turkey and pecan pie :]

But anyway a few things I wanted to talk about:

Mega Glalie: I feel obligated to discuss this mon because my team just so happens to be incrediby weak to this thing and I just literally get 6-0d by it. I will start by saying that I am actually fine with glalie staying where it is as far as ranking goes, but I also really see the argument to move him up. Granted he is just simply ineffective against most offense, best case would be coming in on something he can live a hit from(not much) and then exploding for a kill. However when we get to balance and stall it starts to really "shine"(when talking about C rank mons its tough to use words like shine), I just cant see a well played glalie not getting at least 2 kills in any given match and they would usually be kills that really cripple the other team and allow for an easy clean up. I dont want to go too much into this mon because I want to get into a lot in one post, but common balance cores like heatran/ferro/slowbro dont really like dealing with glalie and he can effectively destroy that core if played right.I also want to point out that 100 speed tier is only bad when you are playing an offensive team. Basically it seems that because he is better at dealing with the otehr two playstyes and offense is more popular he is getting underrated. There are plenty of mons that are in A rank because they destroy offense and can do decent against the other two, glalie seems reversed(to a lesser extent). He has potential, subpar against offense, while pretty effective against stall and balance, I say we either keep him in C or bump up to C+, it depends how heavily you weigh opportunity cost.

Which brings me to....opportunity cost, I have mentioned this already before but I pretty strongly feel that opportunity cost should not be weighed heavily at all. The best example is latios v latios mega, mega latios is simply better than latios but if we look at the rankings we see that it is substantially worse. why? Because some people assume that you would rather have a different mega on your team so they say he isnt worth using. Unless I misunderstand which is entirely possible, I get the impression that some people are taking this thread as "what you should use on your team" opposed to what I think it is "how good is this pokemon". If an admin comes on and says its the former then I will just move on and operate under that initiative. But idk its a huge issue in ranking megas and until we get it sorted out I dont think we will get very far.

Mega Swampert- I am not as enthusiastic as others about how well he performs. He seems pretty damn inconsistent and with mons like rotom-w and ferro being just so damn common I have found him to always be pretty manageable and only seem to do exceptionally well against unprepared teams or offense. That being said I still cant really justify not putting him in A-, not for his 4 attack set but for his rain dance + 3 attack set, this allows him to basically become a rain core all on his own, and allows for a lot more team support to deal with his problem mons. He has the bulk to be apart of effective bulky cores, and gets the speed with rain dance to clean up late game. If there was a rank between B+ and A- I would put him there, but since there isnt Swamper(mega) for A-.

Mega Houndoom- just going to put my full support behind what Aragorn the King said, he made his points well and I expect to see a rise from the devil dog.

Klefki- This thing needs B+. the amount of utility it fits into one slot on your team is nothing short of amazing. I mean prankster twave, screens, spikes, with decent attacking options like foul play or play rough, he will literally never be deadweight on any team ever and will always be accomplish something that is putting pressure on the opponent. Thats the selling point for me personally, is pressure, the opponent will usually have to deal with an annoying paralysis, have to try and break through screens, or defog spikes and this can be accomplished all in one set, great defensvie typing, just a great utility mon if not the best. B+ for sure


The last thing I wanted to say about opportunity cost is I guess I am not saying completely disregard it. But I find myself struggling to say we should put Latios mega in S, I would rather see A+. So I guess I really think some people are just weighing it too heavily. But again I dont know how to go about this because it seems to be personal opinion on how much to weigh it or not, so its either never going to be solved or someone will tell us how to proceed. Sorry for bouncing around and Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Bluwing]

huge awesome art

View attachment 30816

Not sure how crazy this'll sound, but I'll go for it anyway. I think Mega Houndoom improved in the shift to ORAS, and that it deserves to move up to B. Before, it was more of a niche stall breaker that could break stall, but really struggled v. offense, since Keldeo and Azumarill were so prevalent. This generation helped Houndoom in two ways. One, Keldeo and Azumarill are a lot less common, so Houndoom can abuse its golden speed tier against offense with less worry about being checked. However, the bigger reason Houndoom is a lot better now is that Mega Sableye was introduced. Sableye is basically a required mon for stall now, and Houndoom makes its life a living hell, thanks to being immune to Will-o-Wisp, taking reduced damage from Knock Off, taking little to nothing from +1 attacks, and being able to boost up with Nasty Plot faster than Sableye can with Calm Mind. A +2 Houndoom isn't only terrifying for Mega Sableye; non-earth Power Heatran, Mew, Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, Jirachi, and Celebi are all setup bait, and Mega Slowbro is OHKOd after taking, at minimum, 16% prior damage. Versus offense, Houndoom isn't useless as some say, as thanks to its golden speed tier, it revenge kills latios and latias, walls substitute mega latias completely, switches into bisharp, checks mega metagross, revenge kills mega gallade, rks mega scizor, and handles jirachi well, barring flinch hax. Speed has become really important lately; the 110 speed tier especially has exploded, and Houndoom has a great match up v. all of them except diancie, who admittedly is a great check. Mega Altaria also exists, which is a little annoying for Houndoom. However, even considering those two new mons, Houdoom's matchup v. stall and offense has improved, and I think it should move up.

diancie and altaria ain't really issues due too mega doom getting sludge bomb, otherwise i agree with everything.

 

[mertyville]

When you look at the first few pages of the thread, I am actually supporting the rise of Mega Latios.
Looking back at it now, I think raising it to A was indeed controversial, aspecially, with all the other cool Megas you could run instead.

But it does not matter how you look at it, B is just way too low for Mega Latios. I know, compared to XY, we have a larger amount of Megas to choose from in ORAS and each of them bring something different to the table:
- Mega Sableye: == Stall
- Mega Latias: Most Unique Calm Minder (aka best Calm Minder)
- Mega Slowbro: The uncritable Set Up Sweeper
- Mega Loppuny: STAB + Scrappy == unresisted coverage
- Mega Charizard Y: Walking Sun Wallbreaker
etc

Mega Latios has at first glance nothing going for it:
- similar speed to Latios
- hits on the special side weaker than Life Orb variant
- same typing and ability as Latios
- since the difference in Atk between Life Orb viariant is so small, DD set would be an option but then you have to compete with Mega Charizard X, Mega Mence, (Mega) Gyarados.

The only thing left I see is more bulk, but then you would say "If you want a bulky Latios, why don't you use Latias?" and when it comes to a Mega Slot, I think that is a legimate question.
But I think that bulk is still something that could make you want to use Mega Latios aspecially if you want to abuse its 130 base atk in some way and at this point I think that the lure set, Latios is running can be done the best on Mega Latios:

Latios@Latiosite
Nature: Naive
252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire/Thunderbolt
- Defog/Roost/Dragon Dance/etc

Like I said, the difference between the atk (not SpA) of the Life Orb is not significant and the bulk allows you to take Pursuit and Knock Off (not sure about Sucker Punch from Bisharp because Damage Calculator is down).
This set I just posted is just a token and what I mean by that is, the atk stat might need more evs than SpA to actually be more reliable in the long run and not be like "I just use Earthquake to 2HKO SpD Heatran and then don't use it anymore.".

I will just stop right here because I can see why Latios should not go above B+ ranking, hence why I support Mega Tyranitar to drop.
Mega Latios IMO is just a Latios that lures things that Latios can't beat like SpD Heatran, Ttar, Ferro, Bisharp etc not because it does not have the moves or power, but more the endurence to actually expande those abilities further so it can check a larger array of its checks (sounds wierd, I know).

Now what I am trying to say the whole time is: Mega Latios' effectiveness actually increases the viability of Latios when you think about it.
On one hand, that makes me want to see both ranked as one Pokemon, yet, because of the oppotunity cost (which is a critical factor) I can't see it on the same ranking as Latios.
I feel that B is too low, yet again, A (like I originally wanted it to be) is way too high.

 

[Karxrida]

I actually think Mega Latios should go down if anything, probably to C. The opportunity cost is huge for such a small benefit, and the fact that you only add it as an afterthought if you somehow managed to make a team with Latios without another Mega just shows how niche it technically is.

 

[Clone]

diancie and altaria ain't really issues due too mega doom getting sludge bomb, otherwise i agree with everything.

Non STAB Sludge Bomb does Jack shit to Diancie since it only hits neutrally.

 

[TheMohZone]

Sorry for bringing some of these up a bit late, but I was busy shoving my face full of turkey and pecan pie :]

But anyway a few things I wanted to talk about:

Mega Glalie: I feel obligated to discuss this mon because my team just so happens to be incrediby weak to this thing and I just literally get 6-0d by it. I will start by saying that I am actually fine with glalie staying where it is as far as ranking goes, but I also really see the argument to move him up. Granted he is just simply ineffective against most offense, best case would be coming in on something he can live a hit from(not much) and then exploding for a kill. However when we get to balance and stall it starts to really "shine"(when talking about C rank mons its tough to use words like shine), I just cant see a well played glalie not getting at least 2 kills in any given match and they would usually be kills that really cripple the other team and allow for an easy clean up. I dont want to go too much into this mon because I want to get into a lot in one post, but common balance cores like heatran/ferro/slowbro dont really like dealing with glalie and he can effectively destroy that core if played right.I also want to point out that 100 speed tier is only bad when you are playing an offensive team. Basically it seems that because he is better at dealing with the otehr two playstyes and offense is more popular he is getting underrated. There are plenty of mons that are in A rank because they destroy offense and can do decent against the other two, glalie seems reversed(to a lesser extent). He has potential, subpar against offense, while pretty effective against stall and balance, I say we either keep him in C or bump up to C+, it depends how heavily you weigh opportunity cost.

Which brings me to....opportunity cost, I have mentioned this already before but I pretty strongly feel that opportunity cost should not be weighed heavily at all. The best example is latios v latios mega, mega latios is simply better than latios but if we look at the rankings we see that it is substantially worse. why? Because some people assume that you would rather have a different mega on your team so they say he isnt worth using. Unless I misunderstand which is entirely possible, I get the impression that some people are taking this thread as "what you should use on your team" opposed to what I think it is "how good is this pokemon". If an admin comes on and says its the former then I will just move on and operate under that initiative. But idk its a huge issue in ranking megas and until we get it sorted out I dont think we will get very far.

Mega Swampert- I am not as enthusiastic as others about how well he performs. He seems pretty damn inconsistent and with mons like rotom-w and ferro being just so damn common I have found him to always be pretty manageable and only seem to do exceptionally well against unprepared teams or offense. That being said I still cant really justify not putting him in A-, not for his 4 attack set but for his rain dance + 3 attack set, this allows him to basically become a rain core all on his own, and allows for a lot more team support to deal with his problem mons. He has the bulk to be apart of effective bulky cores, and gets the speed with rain dance to clean up late game. If there was a rank between B+ and A- I would put him there, but since there isnt Swamper(mega) for A-.

Mega Houndoom- just going to put my full support behind what Aragorn the King said, he made his points well and I expect to see a rise from the devil dog.

Klefki- This thing needs B+. the amount of utility it fits into one slot on your team is nothing short of amazing. I mean prankster twave, screens, spikes, with decent attacking options like foul play or play rough, he will literally never be deadweight on any team ever and will always be accomplish something that is putting pressure on the opponent. Thats the selling point for me personally, is pressure, the opponent will usually have to deal with an annoying paralysis, have to try and break through screens, or defog spikes and this can be accomplished all in one set, great defensvie typing, just a great utility mon if not the best. B+ for sure

The last thing I wanted to say about opportunity cost is I guess I am not saying completely disregard it. But I find myself struggling to say we should put Latios mega in S, I would rather see A+. So I guess I really think some people are just weighing it too heavily. But again I dont know how to go about this because it seems to be personal opinion on how much to weigh it or not, so its either never going to be solved or someone will tell us how to proceed. Sorry for bouncing around and Happy Thanksgiving!

The problem with not weigh Opportunity cost heavily is that people reading this thread will start using Subpar mons, like Mega Glalie or building a team around Mega Latios, things which you shouldn't do

For example, while yes, Glalie destroys stall and Balance, so do Mega Hera, Meg Garde, Megacham and more recently SD Mega Gallade. Other Megs like Metagross ain't half bad at that either.

and NONE of those are complete dead weight against Offence. Sub Par sure, but not dead weight.

SO why would you run Mega Glalie. Answer is you really shouldn't. it hits nowhere near hard enough off the bat unless you explode, and is too slow, horrible typing, it even makes mega Garde look semi Bulky

Its fine where it is.

 

[MrCookiepants]

The problem with not weigh Opportunity cost heavily is that people reading this thread will start using Subpar mons, like Mega Glalie or building a team around Mega Latios, things which you shouldn't do

For example, while yes, Glalie destroys stall and Balance, so do Mega Hera, Meg Garde, Megacham and more recently SD Mega Gallade. Other Megs like Metagross ain't half bad at that either.

and NONE of those are complete dead weight against Offence. Sub Par sure, but not dead weight.

SO why would you run Mega Glalie. Answer is you really shouldn't. it hits nowhere near hard enough off the bat unless you explode, and is too slow, horrible typing, it even makes mega Garde look semi Bulky

Its fine where it is.

Have you ever tried switching your physical wall into a Glalie?

252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 151-178 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Refrigerate Glalie Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 178-210 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 168-198 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I mean yeah it can be dead weight against offensive teams, but don't ever accuse it of not hitting hard enough.

 

[Wargreymon]

I suppose it helps with hitting the 135's that's true. I am not trying to underestimate at all lol. I ran this thing forever and it actually did loads of work for me. It just has really underwhelming power, which I didn't expect at all from base 175 Sp. Atk. Energy ball is actually a pretty awesome choice. Swampert was one of the bigger threats I was referring to that it had trouble dealing with, but that would handle it.

With a timid nature Mega Alakazam outspeeds every unboosted pokemon in the game except for Deoxys-S and Mega Aero (speed tie), and even with a speed boosting nature and not a special attack boosting nature it reaches a higher special attack than uber powerhouses like modest Palkia and modest Mewtwo (Palkia hits 438, Mewtwo hits 447, Zam hits 449). A pokemon that can afford to run a +speed nature and still reach a higher special attack than Mewtwo is not even remotely underwhelming.
The only time I could see Mega Alakazam's power being called underwhelming would be as a wallbreaker (that's just compared to things like Gard, because make no mistake Zam hits hard), but that's not its job. Mega Zam is a very potent revenge killer and sweeper and in that regard it's a monster.

 

[Fr33dom]

Wargreymon, while Mega Alakazam is one of the fastest pokes in the game with a really good spatt stat, it is frail as hell, leaving it extremely volnerable to strong priority.

 

[trikx_insane]

So since Salamencite has been banned to Ubers, I guess we're allowed to talk about the Viability Rankings without taking M-Mence in consideration now that broken piece of crap is gone.

Oh, and also, Mega Latios should not be A material. It's at best B or lower. What reason is there to use it over LO Latios? Sure, no recoil from LO, but it hits a tad weaker than it. It gains some relatively good bulk, but it's not help making it's case at all because that bulk is doing nothing if you're invested in speed/sp.atk. Unless M-Latios proves me wrong by using a D-Dance set, which I have yet to see otherwise and highly doubt it'll make it's case better, it's staying at B.

And also, Mega Pinsir should rise now that M-Mence is gone.

Edit: Didn't see M-Pinsir is at A+, I thought it was like A- or B+ with M-mence in the tier. <- Could've sworn it wasn't A+ last time I checked. Should've looked at the list before. Sorry >.<

 

[QuickBH]

And also, Mega Pinsir should rise now that M-Mence is gone.

Mega Mence has been banned barely over an hour ago, could you please wait and actually see how the meta is like before making suggestions?

 

[trikx_insane]

Mega Mence has been banned less than an hour ago, could you please wait and actually see how the meta is like before making suggestions?

Just edited my post right before you quoted me. But yeah, quick assumption I shouldn't have made. lol. I actually thought M-Pinsir was in B+ or A- before I said that, so yeah. Sorry >.<

 

[HBOVER9000]

Now that Mega Mence has been banned to Ubers, will rising dragons and/or DDance sweepers rise, such as M-Altaria and M-Gyarados? Altaria had no room on any team as it's mega, due M-Mance being around, completely taking the Dragon slot of any team, and outshining any dragon mega in the metagame. Gyarados, now with good Dark STAB, will probably get more use in the tier. Interested in seeing how the Meta game will chance now with the Menance gone. Expecting Greninja to go down to A+.

EDIT: Forget what I said about Greninja.

 

[napty]

I'm more seeing Gren being an S-Ranked mon or even an Uber mon actually

 

[Stef0w]

Now that Mega Mence has been banned to Ubers, will rising dragons and/or DDance sweepers rise, such as M-Altaria and M-Gyarados? Altaria had no room on any team as it's mega, due M-Mance being around, completely taking the Dragon slot of any team, and outshining any dragon mega in the metagame. Gyarados, now with good Dark STAB, will probably get more use in the tier. Interested in seeing how the Meta game will chance now with the Menance gone. Expecting Greninja to go down to A+.

More like mega mence keeping it from being called the most broken thing in the tier lol.

like honestly, trying to counter, or even check this thing is a massive pain in the dick, and losing a mon or two trying to kill it is honestly pretty easy. if anything it should take over S+, but that rank doesnt even exist anymore, so w/e.

 

[Josh Morales]

Now that Mega Mence has been banned to Ubers, will rising dragons and/or DDance sweepers rise, such as M-Altaria and M-Gyarados? Altaria had no room on any team as it's mega, due M-Mance being around, completely taking the Dragon slot of any team, and outshining any dragon mega in the metagame. Gyarados, now with good Dark STAB, will probably get more use in the tier. Interested in seeing how the Meta game will chance now with the Menance gone. Expecting Greninja to go down to A+.

Mega Altari(mini mence) should definitely rise now that its opportunity cost has lowered substantially and perhaps Mega Gyara too for the same reason and also since the Sub DD set is great and can actually set up in the face of Mega Sableye, but why the fuck would Greninja go down to A+?

 

[Gary]

Well now that Mega Mence is finally banned I think it's safe to put Mega Pinsir back in the upper ranks. I could see it either going back to A+ rank or dropping down to A. Not too much has changed for Mega Pinsir from the transition to ORAS. It's still one of the more dangerous sweepers in the tier, and thanks to its priority Quick Attack it makes a great check to new threats such as Mega Gallade, Mega Lopunny, Mega Sceptile, and old friends. However, it also has problems dealing with other new Pokemon such as Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, Mega Bro, and Mega Sableye. Thundurus is also gaining in popularity again for obvious reasons, and Landorus-T is the most commonly used Pokemon in OU, which takes a dump all over Mega Pinsir, especially Scarf. Its Speed tier is no longer THAT great anymore either, but fortunately for it a lot of the Pokemon that outspeed it now are weak to Quick Attack.

However, even with these changes, Mega Pinsir for the most part remains a VERY solid sweeper and much like Mega Mence, when paired with Magnezone it can be a very hard Pokemon to deal with. Most of its switch-ins can be easily worn down over time or, as stated previously, trapped by zone. Its somewhat lackluster Speed stat is somewhat mitigated by Quick Attack, as it is able to clean up weakened teams with relative ease. I know that I may be jumping the gun here, as Mega Mence was just banned, but I've been using Mega Pinsir quite frenquently these past few weeks just because I hated using Mega Mence due to the lack of a challenge or effort in creative team building, and so far I've yet to see Mega Pinsir preform any less significantly then it did before. I mean yes it now faces more competition for a mega slot because of all these other really good Mega evolutions, and there are a few more offensive/defensive checks to it, but it's still a fierce sweeper that deserves A rank at the very least.

Expecting Greninja to go down to A+.

Nothing has changed for Greninja except that now people can stop running the garbage Scarf set and go back to always using the Life Orb or even Spikes set. Ninja has hardly loss any sort of viability. It still completely rapes common offensive cores.

Also I agree that Mega Altaria has gotten significantly more useful that now that Mega Mence is banned. I could see it rising, but I would wait.

 

[HBOVER9000]

Mega Altari(mini mence) should definitely rise now that its opportunity cost has lowered substantially and perhaps Mega Gyara too for the same reason and also since the Sub DD set is great and can actually set up in the face of Mega Sableye, but why the fuck would Greninja go down to A+?

Greninja, although got a lot of buffs with ORAS, manly rose in viability due to being a good revenge killer against M-Mence, baring it didn't had a sub. Outside of that, I can't see it being a S-Rank threat now. It still has a lot of utility and diverse movepool, but lack power. It's a mini M-Lucario, but without raw power.

EDIT: Forget what I said about Greninja.

 

[trikx_insane]

Greninja, although got a lot of buffs with ORAS, manly rose in viability due to being a good revenge killer against M-Mence, baring it didn't had a sub. Outside of that, I can't see it being a S-Rank threat now. It still has a lot of utility and diverse movepool, but lack power. It's a mini M-Lucario, but without raw power.

Without raw power? This guy has STAB Everything and + LO boost. It has like every type move in the game, that it can use reliably, allowing it to hit almost everything super-effectively. Now with Gunk Shot, it can hit fairies reliably and even 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rocks.

 

[Valmanway]

Now that Mega Mence has been banned to Ubers, will rising dragons and/or DDance sweepers rise, such as M-Altaria and M-Gyarados? Altaria had no room on any team as it's mega, due M-Mance being around, completely taking the Dragon slot of any team, and outshining any dragon mega in the metagame. Gyarados, now with good Dark STAB, will probably get more use in the tier. Interested in seeing how the Meta game will chance now with the Menance gone. Expecting Greninja to go down to A+.

Greninja wasn't S Rank because it checked Mega Salamence. It's S Rank because it absolutely destroys offensive teams.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Can we shut the hell up about Greninja? This discussion about whether should it drop or not is lame... Greninja should definitely be S+ rank with all the boosts it got in ORAS and how effective is against offense.

Back to Latios, Calm Mind + Draco Meteor Mega Latios lure sets are quite good in this meta imo, as Mega Latios has a much easier time boosting than his regular form due to its improved defenses. For example, Greninja can no longer OHKO +1 Mega Latios, while Draco Meteor will promptly OHKO back. Same for Mega Sableye, Mega Gallade and Gengar. Even Mega Gyara and Zard-Y will be OHKOed. Bisharp isn't safe either, as +1 DM can OHKO after SR. It should also be noted that +1 HP Fire has just enough juice to OHKO Ferrothorn. All this without Life Orb recoil. However, you DO NOT want to play it as a sweeper, but rather as a wallbreaker which really appreciates a Calm Mind boost for its Draco Meteor.

Mega Latios should go up to A-

 

[p2]

It's a mini M-Lucario, but without raw power.

Life Orb boosted moves with a free STAB boost say otherwise

 

[Gary]

Greninja, although got a lot of buffs with ORAS, manly rose in viability due to being a good revenge killer against M-Mence, baring it didn't had a sub. Outside of that, I can't see it being a S-Rank threat now. It still has a lot of utility and diverse movepool, but lack power. It's a mini M-Lucario, but without raw power.

That's completely incorrect lol. Greninja was labeled an S rank threat before Mega Mence was even announced, and even before Gunk Shot was added to it movepool. To be honest, Mega Mence hardly made it any more viable then it already was. Like I said, all it did was force people to run Scarf Ninja, which is significantly worse than Life Orb Ninja, and even then, Sub DD Mence could still potentially play around Scarf Ninja. There is no way that any active OU player wouldn't agree that Ninja isn't S rank at this point. With Gunk Shot added to its movepool, it got rid of several reliable switch-ins to it, as well as making AV Azumarill go from being one of its best sets to almost completely obsolete. ORAS brought nothing but more things for Ninja to fuck, as well as a move that basically pushes it over the edge of possibly being broken. Ninja is never going to drop any lower than S unless some huge meta shift happens.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Lol wut...

Greninja hardly lacks power. It didn't rise in viability mainly due to being able to revenge kill Mega Salamence. The Scarf set was used only to counter Mega Salamence. Outside of that, it was complete garbage. With the LO set, it could only beat an unboosted Mega Salamence. It rose in viability because it now has a way to basically crush its former counters such as Azumarill and Chansey thanks to the ORAS tutors. It has quite decent power and getting STAB in every single move it has is just awesome. It uses its good power and ridiculous Speed to basically wreck offensive teams and with great coverage it basically dominates almost any slower mon. Dragon or Grass-type? Take an Ice Beam. Ferrothorn? Here, eat a Hidden Power Fire. Azumarill? Gunk Shot. No matter what, Greninja has a way to fight against any mon, and you can tailor the moveset for what your team needs to handle. It was already the best Pokemon in the game by the end of XY, and if anything the ORAS buffs only made it better, there's good reason why there's a small cry for a suspect test about it.

 

[HBOVER9000]

Without raw power? This guy has STAB Everything and + LO boost. It has like every type in the game, allowing it to hit almost everything super-effectively. Now with Gunk Shot, it can hit fairies reliably and even 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rocks.

Again, still doesn't have the raw power M-Lucario had with it's stabs, due to Adaptability. Also, other things already had Gunk Shot, like Infernape, yet it got down to UU. Just saying.

Greninja wasn't S Rank because it checked Mega Salamence. It's S Rank because it absolutely destroys offensive teams.

Can't see it doing that with low defenses, and being revenge killed by common Scarfers.

EDIT: I'll run Greninja, now that M-Mence is gone, and then I'll check if my opinion changes. After actually using one, now that Mence is gone, I'll reformulate my opinion on it.

EDIT 2: Forget what I said about Greninja.