What in the world are you talking about? What is he using an item for stab on? Not only is you claim about his movepool waaaay off, so are your claims about the meta. Yes Kyurem has weaknesses, the fact that steel and fairy are two of them doesn't help him. However, as a wallbreaker he is very effective, as well as a scarfer. Clefable is not wanting to switch into a kyub ice beam, especially when he has a life orb. Scizor can but he isn't going to appreciate the damage done. The meta is fit for pretty much every playstyle right now. I haven't really seen a lot of particular playstyle tbh. His scarf set makes him a great revenge killer. He outspeeds and ohkos Lando-T scarfed, that's a good enough niche for me on it's own. He can also revenge kill mega manectric, +1 speed altaria and gyarados as well. He has way more use than you are giving him credit for, and I think he should move anywhere at all.
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100
- Thread starter trc
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Mr. Hothead
formerly Salt2DaFeds
Fire Blast is risky and idr Adamant Charizard being used cause of the cluster fuck of high 80's and 90's that outspeed it...
And, if we wanna play the stealth rock game...
But seriously you called Char Y a Hard Counter to MAlt which makes no sense... MAlt is a check i guess...
252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 129-153 (43.4 - 51.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 194-228 (65.3 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
I never called it a hard counter; someone else said that. Realistically speaking, Zard Y does lack the bulk to take invested Returns, just like Mega Altaria lacks the bulk to take Sun-boosted Fire Blasts. They both hit really hard.
Modest is far more common on Zard Y than Timid due to being a pure wallbreaker. As for accuracy, hax isn't factored in when deciding viability.
And they already said that it was wrong to call Zard Y a hard counter.
Mr. Hothead
formerly Salt2DaFeds
fair game.
Really it depends if the Charizarrd is running Flamethrower or Fire Blast and/or it uses Modest or Timid.
Scizor lost to mixed Altaria with Fire blast on the switch in and if the Scizor is not banded , Alt can live one BP
4 SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 416-492 (121.2 - 143.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Unaware Clefable is really , really passive against max att adamant Altaria if SR are still ups on the switch in
252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Ferrothorn obviously , lost to mixed Fire blast or even Special set , so i think it just show up Altaria's versatility.
4 SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 264-312 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery ( so, can't switch in.)
252+ SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 360-424 (102.2 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Same for Skarm :
4 SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 230-272 (68.8 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 312-368 (93.4 - 110.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
And Alt is obviously one of the biggest counter to M-Sableye a HUGE threat , the only 'mon who can counter ALL Alt sets is M-Venu in OU , who is really low in usage since ORAS.
So , i agree with Altaria and probably Clefable in S rank.
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Mr. Hothead
formerly Salt2DaFeds
Goddamn i dont really want to elaborate but heeere we go
Mega Metagross, known as the best offensive threat in the meta rn, destroys Kyub. So does Msceptile, MDiancie, and a few other relevant megas like MLop and shit. His offensive and defensive typing is bad, and the item he is using for stab is Freeze Shock as it is his only good Physical Ice type move.
My claim about the meta is pretty accurate due to the point that you basically have to eliminate a shitload of threats before you can actually use him (support) and needs SR support.
Im sorry, i cant take you seriously. Ice Beam from a Kyu B is hilarious vs Clef...
32 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 105-124 (26.6 - 31.4%) -- 24.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
not even a definite 4HKO (?)
The meta is fit for HO and Stall. Balance and BO usually fall dead to HO due to it being a popular playstyle and such, etc.
SubGyarados is popular and Ice beam fails to kill no SpDef investment Maltaria and can OHKO back with no boost. and in some occasions Ice STAB isnt even run on Kyu B...
then again, too many flaws for B+. No movepool makes his Attack stat deadweight... and with the new megas its never safe for him. Still a great revenge killer tho.
I support Altaria to S.
She is pretty unpredictable and diverse, able to fullfill several both offensive and defensive roles, and there is no straight counter that can switch in on anything. It does have checks depending on the moveset but you will often have to fodder something to find out her moveset.
Also it may have been the greatest beneficiary of Greninja's ban since it hated that little motherfucker with a passion.
She is pretty unpredictable and diverse, able to fullfill several both offensive and defensive roles, and there is no straight counter that can switch in on anything. It does have checks depending on the moveset but you will often have to fodder something to find out her moveset.
Also it may have been the greatest beneficiary of Greninja's ban since it hated that little motherfucker with a passion.
I've also been wondering about Altaria for S-Rank. While being weak to Bullet Punch is not exactly doing it any favours, it can do multiple roles extremely well and the calcs prove it. With that fantastic defensive Typing, amazing offensive Ability and stats to back up both, it would seem to me that M-Altaria really is a low-risk, high reward Pokemon that can do anything you'd want it to do. I might be completely wrong, but right now I say Mega Altaria for S Rank.
Bullet punch is only used by 2 Pokémon in OU (Scizor / Gross) who like i said for one lost to fire blast and can't OHKO in return if he is not banded , and Gross lost to +1 EQ if hasty , and take a huge damage at +1 if he is not.
+1 252+ Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 250-296 (83 - 98.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 174-206 (59.5 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 134-158 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 416-492 (121.2 - 143.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And EVEN if Adamant (lol) :
0- SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 368-436 (106.9 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And BP on Gross is not really that common I think actually , he losts a lot of coverage with MM AND BP.
With Greninja gone i think Altaria definetely deserve a S Rank.
+1 252+ Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 250-296 (83 - 98.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 174-206 (59.5 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 134-158 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 416-492 (121.2 - 143.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And EVEN if Adamant (lol) :
0- SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 368-436 (106.9 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And BP on Gross is not really that common I think actually , he losts a lot of coverage with MM AND BP.
With Greninja gone i think Altaria definetely deserve a S Rank.
Metagross should never be running Hasty because it gives Bisharp a much better chance to OHKO with LO Sucker Punch, gives Dread Plate a chance to OHKO, makes you take more from Lando-T's attacks, etc. Grass Knot should be running Naive or even Jolly since it still nets the KOs of needs to with -SpA.
Because Metagross tends to not run a shitty nature, it is a solid Altaria answer.
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Mega Metagross checking something is not a good reason to drop it to C+
MSceptile and MDiancie can be RKed by Scarf set, so, lol.
Ice/Dragon is a bad offensive typing??? Sure, defensively Ice is shit but why do you think Ice Beam was always a guaranteed move on Greninja?
You don't have to use Freeze Shock ._.
You chose like the best scenario for Clefable here.
252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%)
That's a 2HKO after a bit of damage. With a LO that's a 2HKO from full, even if Clefable is running the 252/96+ spread. It also has the capability to run Iron Head, which can 2HKO without LO.
252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 294-348 (83 - 98.3%)
Again, this is a KO after a small amount of prior damage.
Salt2DaFeds
FREEZE SHOCK?! LMFAO! Since you seem to mostly be referring to the physical scarf set I'll try to stick to that. It outspeeds metagross, sceptile and diancie. Gross can BP but it would pretty much have to know yer scarfed in order to want to do that. So you will be doing huge damage to him beforehand. Sceptile is ohko'd by dragon claw, diancie is eating huge damage from anything else so does lop. None of them can really risk switching in without risk of being 2hkod from his huge attack stat alone.
However, the set I was mostly referring to is his wallbreaking set, particularly with the part I was talking about Ice beam Clefable. So let me adjust those calcs for you:
252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
No way she wants to come in. Same thing happens to metagross with earth power. Gyarados is ohkod by fusion bolt and altaria also 2hkod by ice beam. This set is by far his best imo and is exactly why he should stay where he is.
FREEZE SHOCK?! LMFAO! Since you seem to mostly be referring to the physical scarf set I'll try to stick to that. It outspeeds metagross, sceptile and diancie. Gross can BP but it would pretty much have to know yer scarfed in order to want to do that. So you will be doing huge damage to him beforehand. Sceptile is ohko'd by dragon claw, diancie is eating huge damage from anything else so does lop. None of them can really risk switching in without risk of being 2hkod from his huge attack stat alone.
However, the set I was mostly referring to is his wallbreaking set, particularly with the part I was talking about Ice beam Clefable. So let me adjust those calcs for you:
252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
No way she wants to come in. Same thing happens to metagross with earth power. Gyarados is ohkod by fusion bolt and altaria also 2hkod by ice beam. This set is by far his best imo and is exactly why he should stay where he is.
Yeah Kyu-B shouldn't drop, if anything it should go back to A-. With Greninja gone, nothing in the metagame gets even close to Kyu-B's neutral AND SE coverage. It can run LO, Sub+Lefties, Scarf and Band and there's nothing that can check all of them at once. You mispredict, you lose a pokemon, plain and simple. Even if you don't mispredict, Kyu-B is still punching huge holes against pretty much any playstyle. Let's drop the myth that Kyu-B sucks against HO because any self-respecting HO team carries a pivot like Celebi, Rotom-W and Lando-T, all of whom Kyu-B flat out craps on.
He was referring to hasty altaria lol.
The Metagross in the calc was hasty.
I didn't see that. @.@ I just know hasty is typically the nature ran for offensive Altaria sets.
I already told you that calling Zardari a counter to Alteria was a brainfart, move on. And if Alteria can't switch in on rocks, and only sometimes are able to do so without, it is not a check. And the +1 252+ calcs are kinda bad calcs, as offensive variant gets destroyed.
Cloud nine does not get rid of weather, it only pauses it as long as the Pokemon is in, so it gets wears off opon megaing, besides isn't natural cure prefered?
Mr. Hothead
formerly Salt2DaFeds
Ice/Dragon do little to nothing synergy wise.
Also not noting his shitty movepool if you pick the Scarf set then he is locked into one move, something you can take advantage of from there.
I was pointing out its only useful physical Ice Stab is Freeze Shock...
>252+ SpA Kyu B
yea... no.
even then, its Physical moveset is a bit better than its Special one and it is more powerful.
Again, 252+ Kyu B is like never used (god i hope not) unless the only moves you wanna use is EP and Ice Beam.
I dont understand what you guys are getting to, its gonna drop no matter what, new megas hinder it, horrible movepool, needs SR support, needs checks to be cleared. that definetly doesnt deserve B+ rank. B rank probs is fine for it. C+ is way too low imo and B- is underestimating it, but B+ is a little to high for this fellow.
Besides, its most likely gonna be stuck into his Dragon Stab so thats a perfect time to setup a pokemon (Fairy type)
There are specific sets for checking both zards, so it's not always the case.
Wha...wait....WHA?! Where are you right now, mars? The specially based wallbrwaking set is widely considered his best set. So 252 sp. Atk is pretty much all you will see most of the time.
Mr. Hothead
formerly Salt2DaFeds
When?
Even then its cockblocked if you run LO you are outsped and if you run Scarf you will fall dead to its 1 move choice and its mediocre unboosted SpA.
From what i see Special Kyu B NEEDS and i take this with no joke, NEEDS LO to actually function and hit hard. its Scarf variant would probably be able to take out MScept and thats about it lol
Not Saying* its a bad mon, I just think it doesnt deserve B+ Rank.
That would be incorrect. He can run lefties with a sub. There is also a scarfed specially based set. Despite whatever yer thinking 120 Sp. Atk is far from "mediocre"...actually anything but. I think that you just don't know what yer talking about on this one bud. Sorry, you seem to be caught up in this ridiculous atk stat he has, but can't use it the way he wants due to his limited PHYSICAL move pool. There is a reason when you click on him in the op he has a list of entirely mixed sets. He is a fantastoc mixed attacker with a few good sets for rking and wallbreaking.
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