it has a ton of utility, it is very capable of cleaning offence, as it outspeeds most pokes on that playstyle. It has perfect coverage in its two stab moves, hitting everything neutrally. It can also run a variety of moves thanks to already perfect coverage, such as PuP, baton pass, healing wish, fake out, sub and ice punch.
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100
- Thread starter trc
- Start date
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Ok. I have some things:
Gardevoir - Unranked --> D-/D: Gardevoir is one of those Pokemon that is kinda lackluster in its base form. However, with its great typing and movepool, it is a surprisingly effective Choice Scarf user. While it is certainly not anything that will strike fear into everything it faces, the surprise value that comes from its use and its access to a blazingly fast Healing Wish - which, for the record, only comes one stat point short of tying with jolly Mega Beedrill - make it a surprisingly effective way of recovering a teammate to a threatening condition, and this will very often be the difference between winning a match and losing one. Now I know what you're thinking: if you want a scarf Healing Wish user, why use this over Scarf Latias? The answer is Moonblast and its great typing. Moonblast is a great way of hitting a large number of common Pokemon in OU, such as Latios, Latias, Garchomp, M-Altaria, M-Sableye etc. while its typing allows it to switch in on Dragon-types, outpace with Choice Scarf (if they stay in) and take a chunk out of them with the aforementioned move. Add to this its special attack stat which, while nothing spectacular without a boosting item, is good nonetheless.
Lucario - B- --> C+/C: Lucario literally meets the specification of a C rank Pokemon: it has about the same number of notable niches in OU as it does flaws, and more often than not it is kind of underwhelming in the tier. While it does have good offenses, it needs a boost to become genuinely threatening, and that involves wasting a turn to do so. It falls flat against offensive playstyles as there is so much offensive pressure being put on it that it can't reliably set up, and it its genuine frailty isn't met by something which many Pokemon like it have: it is disappointingly slow. A large number of Pokemon have fallen from supposed glory because of a poor speed tier which isn't made up for by bulk - such as Porygon-Z and Staraptor - and there are also Poekmon which fall due to their poor speed not being made up for by power - such as Flygon, who would be a far better Defog user if it wasn't for its average 100/80 offenses and 100 speed tier - and I honestly don't see what sets Lucario apart as a B rank Pokemon despite falling to both of these issues. Sure: it has its fair share of positives, but it has about the same number of flaws that I feel mean that it shouldn't be under B.
Gardevoir - Unranked --> D-/D: Gardevoir is one of those Pokemon that is kinda lackluster in its base form. However, with its great typing and movepool, it is a surprisingly effective Choice Scarf user. While it is certainly not anything that will strike fear into everything it faces, the surprise value that comes from its use and its access to a blazingly fast Healing Wish - which, for the record, only comes one stat point short of tying with jolly Mega Beedrill - make it a surprisingly effective way of recovering a teammate to a threatening condition, and this will very often be the difference between winning a match and losing one. Now I know what you're thinking: if you want a scarf Healing Wish user, why use this over Scarf Latias? The answer is Moonblast and its great typing. Moonblast is a great way of hitting a large number of common Pokemon in OU, such as Latios, Latias, Garchomp, M-Altaria, M-Sableye etc. while its typing allows it to switch in on Dragon-types, outpace with Choice Scarf (if they stay in) and take a chunk out of them with the aforementioned move. Add to this its special attack stat which, while nothing spectacular without a boosting item, is good nonetheless.
Lucario - B- --> C+/C: Lucario literally meets the specification of a C rank Pokemon: it has about the same number of notable niches in OU as it does flaws, and more often than not it is kind of underwhelming in the tier. While it does have good offenses, it needs a boost to become genuinely threatening, and that involves wasting a turn to do so. It falls flat against offensive playstyles as there is so much offensive pressure being put on it that it can't reliably set up, and it its genuine frailty isn't met by something which many Pokemon like it have: it is disappointingly slow. A large number of Pokemon have fallen from supposed glory because of a poor speed tier which isn't made up for by bulk - such as Porygon-Z and Staraptor - and there are also Poekmon which fall due to their poor speed not being made up for by power - such as Flygon, who would be a far better Defog user if it wasn't for its average 100/80 offenses and 100 speed tier - and I honestly don't see what sets Lucario apart as a B rank Pokemon despite falling to both of these issues. Sure: it has its fair share of positives, but it has about the same number of flaws that I feel mean that it shouldn't be under B.
Also, don't forget that if you wanna run both your STABs you must split offensive EVs. So yeah, Mega Diancie ha 160/160, but you can almost never full invest into one of them.
A lot of people these days just use Protect as M-Diancie's 4th move cause it's so important for it to mega evolve without sustaining damage. I don't think M-Diancie should drop personally because all out attacker and the the relief of Protect make it a threat in the first place, along with the potential to have these other options on teams. I think the flaws Albacore stated are there but are somewhat exaggerated because there's a lot of games that I've seen where M-Diancie puts in a ton of work even without Rock Polish or Calm Mind that really isn't comparable to M-Aerodactyl or M-Sceptile in regards to effectiveness. You're also sort of missing the fact that M-Diancie is not only the Sableye answer on teams it's also the check to other dangerous threats such as Talonflame, Charizard-Y, and to a degree Char-X as well on primarily offensive and balance minded builds. Sure with Char-Y it has the issues of speed before M-Evo but this is the reason why people are using Protect in a similar vein to M-Beedrill which I don't see too much wrong with this. Protect mitigates a lot of these issues it has in the first place along with scouting so it's more or less become the go to move in terms of self sufficiency with the potential to utilize Magic Bounce to avoid status such as burns and paralysis from Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave with the latter a big problem if it were to go with its Rock Polish set. Its potential is out there and I don't see it in the same caliber of M-Aerodactyl or M-Sceptile, although M-Sceptile I'm pretty firm on seeing it drop from the discussions I had with various individuals.
I'd keep Diancie at A Rank. It's not good enough for A+ -- its defenses are actually pretty bad because of its low HP stat and it doesn't set up quite as well as the other A+ Megas (except Gardevoir which doesn't really need to).
But I also think it's absolutely better than A-. Rock Polish can clean up weakened offensive teams and Calm Mind can absolutely wreck balance and bulky offense if you play it right. It's also one of the few sweepers that Thundurus cannot use Thunder Wave on (even though Thundurus already outspeeds it, Diancie can survive 1 hit, but this is more important for RP).
Diancie is a pokemon that I've found myself underwhelmed with at times as well, but sometimes it has truly surprised me with how well it can clean up or pave the way for another sweeper.
But I also think it's absolutely better than A-. Rock Polish can clean up weakened offensive teams and Calm Mind can absolutely wreck balance and bulky offense if you play it right. It's also one of the few sweepers that Thundurus cannot use Thunder Wave on (even though Thundurus already outspeeds it, Diancie can survive 1 hit, but this is more important for RP).
Diancie is a pokemon that I've found myself underwhelmed with at times as well, but sometimes it has truly surprised me with how well it can clean up or pave the way for another sweeper.
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Diancie shouldn't drop, IMO.
Looking at the Megas in A-, I think that it fits in much better with the A rank Megas; very good choices for the Mega slot, but lesser or outclassed by the ones in A+ and S. While it does face competition from other Megas, it's not strictly outclassed because nothing else does what Diancie can. It works similarly to Mega Metagross, in a way. Not exactly a sweeper, but a fast, powerful offensive threat that can hit hard, and threaten a large number of mons with an easy OHKO. Base 110 Speed with mixed coverage and Magic Bounce's protection from wayward status make it unique as a Fairy type, and one of the best Rock types in the tier. Some of the things that are used to check Fairies can deal with the slow, bulky ones very well, but can't deal with Diancie as easily. Mega Charizard X and Y are both OHKOed by Diamond Storm, offensive Mega Venusaur is actually 2HKOed by Diamond Storm with SR and a tiny amount of prior damage (still a very good matchup for Saur, but not a counter), Bisharp and Heatran are outsped and blasted by Earth Power, and even Excadrill takes 90% minimum.
I've been using it quite a lot, and I think the best set is the Naive 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, Diamond Storm / Moonblast / Earth Power / Protect set. Protect is absolutely crucial for Diancie's success, as it allows it to Mega Evolve while facing stuff like Keldeo, Charizard Y, Pinsir, or anything that can outspeed and KO base Diancie, but is outsped and KOed by Mega Diancie. Protect gives it a lot of utility, surprisingly. I've often lead with Diancie against Landorus-T's, and I either get free rocks, or see a U-turn or Earthquake coming. Protect also turns the Diancie and Magnezone vs. Banded Scizor matchup on its head; scouting for either U-turn or Bullet Punch puts incredible pressure on the opponent. Protect is useful for a bunch of other stuff, but I can see how Calm Mind and Rock Polish can be useful for cleaning. I just think that both moves sacrifice too much or Protect's safety and utility in favor of trying to get a sweep, which isn't what Mega Diancie does best. If it's going to stay in A, it should do so based mainly on the merits of the Protect set, I think.
Looking at the Megas in A-, I think that it fits in much better with the A rank Megas; very good choices for the Mega slot, but lesser or outclassed by the ones in A+ and S. While it does face competition from other Megas, it's not strictly outclassed because nothing else does what Diancie can. It works similarly to Mega Metagross, in a way. Not exactly a sweeper, but a fast, powerful offensive threat that can hit hard, and threaten a large number of mons with an easy OHKO. Base 110 Speed with mixed coverage and Magic Bounce's protection from wayward status make it unique as a Fairy type, and one of the best Rock types in the tier. Some of the things that are used to check Fairies can deal with the slow, bulky ones very well, but can't deal with Diancie as easily. Mega Charizard X and Y are both OHKOed by Diamond Storm, offensive Mega Venusaur is actually 2HKOed by Diamond Storm with SR and a tiny amount of prior damage (still a very good matchup for Saur, but not a counter), Bisharp and Heatran are outsped and blasted by Earth Power, and even Excadrill takes 90% minimum.
I've been using it quite a lot, and I think the best set is the Naive 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, Diamond Storm / Moonblast / Earth Power / Protect set. Protect is absolutely crucial for Diancie's success, as it allows it to Mega Evolve while facing stuff like Keldeo, Charizard Y, Pinsir, or anything that can outspeed and KO base Diancie, but is outsped and KOed by Mega Diancie. Protect gives it a lot of utility, surprisingly. I've often lead with Diancie against Landorus-T's, and I either get free rocks, or see a U-turn or Earthquake coming. Protect also turns the Diancie and Magnezone vs. Banded Scizor matchup on its head; scouting for either U-turn or Bullet Punch puts incredible pressure on the opponent. Protect is useful for a bunch of other stuff, but I can see how Calm Mind and Rock Polish can be useful for cleaning. I just think that both moves sacrifice too much or Protect's safety and utility in favor of trying to get a sweep, which isn't what Mega Diancie does best. If it's going to stay in A, it should do so based mainly on the merits of the Protect set, I think.
RichieTheGarchomp
Banned deucer.
Mega Diancie for A-? What?
I wanted it to go to A+ cause of its mixed attacking abilities, but i guess its too frail (???) to be used. Its only problem from what ive seen is its fraility, and that sure as hell doesnt mean it should go to A-. Magic Bounce stops status and Taunt users, it shuts down MSab completely, stops MLop from switching in, etc. And i made a list of what pokemon get taken out from MDiancie.
Comparing MDiancie to a fast and weak frail mega (Aerodactyl) A frail pokemon with a meh offensive typing (Sceptile) and a super strong slow pokemon with meh bulk (Heracross) and overall A- rank is way too bad for MDiancie... Diancie is fine in A rank for reasons i said above.
I wanted it to go to A+ cause of its mixed attacking abilities, but i guess its too frail (???) to be used. Its only problem from what ive seen is its fraility, and that sure as hell doesnt mean it should go to A-. Magic Bounce stops status and Taunt users, it shuts down MSab completely, stops MLop from switching in, etc. And i made a list of what pokemon get taken out from MDiancie.
Comparing MDiancie to a fast and weak frail mega (Aerodactyl) A frail pokemon with a meh offensive typing (Sceptile) and a super strong slow pokemon with meh bulk (Heracross) and overall A- rank is way too bad for MDiancie... Diancie is fine in A rank for reasons i said above.
Except we should keep it at A in this case.
Wow it is hilarious to see the change of tone with regard to using protect, I'd been advocating and fiercely defending its use over RP/CM since October and many thought it to be an inferior choice. Lovely to see it gain more support now, and I do feel RP has only gone down in viability since the banning of Greninja led to a drop in the speed tiers so RP just ends up being overkill when 110 is sufficient enough for most part - the rest of the threats usually run scarf anyway or priority. As for CM... I honestly can't comment on it I've never particularly used it, since my team generally has a good answer to defensive/stall teams. Moreover, I find just the ability to hit on both sides of the spectrum, if you invest a bit on her Atk EV (since you won't lose any major OHKOes or 2HKO from Moon Blast/Earth power), makes switching into her more difficult even for stall teams.
Hey there i want to nominate Empoleon to B:
Why should it be B ?
Like Reverb said its such underrated, and has soo much utility, can set up rocks phaze and defog thats pretty good for him to be B- has great avarage dual typing and can check some threats, some of them are Sub DD Mega Gyarados w/ equake, Mega Beedrill and Mega Shark, if he is Defensive. That pretty much sumerise wuth i wanted to say, its a pretty good rank for a starter.
Why should it be B ?
Like Reverb said its such underrated, and has soo much utility, can set up rocks phaze and defog thats pretty good for him to be B- has great avarage dual typing and can check some threats, some of them are Sub DD Mega Gyarados w/ equake, Mega Beedrill and Mega Shark, if he is Defensive. That pretty much sumerise wuth i wanted to say, its a pretty good rank for a starter.
Okay first of all, Mega Lopunny is not what I'd call a stall breaker. It's power, like Sceptile's, is relatively underwhelming. Healing wish is nice, but fake out return and HJK are almost necessary. I prefer power-up-punch in the last slot to give it a chance at handling bulkier checks. Scarf Lando-T cannot OHKO Sceptile and Sceptile can OHKO back. Stall loses to Mega Sceptile's coverage along with hazards as long as Chansey is gone.
I answer again, Mega Sceptile fills the niche of being a fantastic cleaner on offensive teams, being able to cleanly 2HKO a large majority of commonly viable threats ranked above it and below it with it's fantastic coverage and speed. It's expansive move pool gives its users to tailor-make its sets to be able to check the mons that your teams need it to check the most (i.e EQ for Tran and AV Raikou, Focus Blast for Drill and Mag, HP fire for Ferro and Scizor, etc) Being able to check Mega Lop and Manectric is huge because they are often the fastest mons on their teams, not including scarfers which are much more easy to play around.
Just pointing out some facts.
252 Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 210-248 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 160-190 (50.1 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 193-228 (60.5 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 181-214 (56.7 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
How does Mega Sceptile OHKO Scarf Lando-T? Unless I'm missing something.
I'm not going to take a side in the argument until later, but I'm just gonna point out that Leaf Storm is a really good move on Sceptile that has a solid chance to OHKO Scarf Lando. Whether or not that's enough to keep it A-, I won't say.
Calc:
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 277-327 (86.8 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Ah fair enough, but he also pointed out that "Mega Sceptile fills the niche of being a fantastic cleaner on offensive teams", so I don't know if Mega Sceptile could afford to run Leaf Storm, as the drop in SpA REALLY hurts its cleaning capabilities.
Leaf Storm!
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 277-327 (86.8 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
RichieTheGarchomp
Banned deucer.
Hey, Stealth Rocks arent up all the time.
Also, to stop my one liner and since MDiancie has been discussed fairly decently, may I ask your guys opinions about Mega Pinsir? Im not forcing you guys to talk about it, but I heard this guy has been getting better after MSala ban, and boy does he hit hard. Even with a "slow speed tier" at 105 this thing doesnt really care because he has so much power. With options for SD and coverage this thing is a total monster. Too bad it has an aids typing an a 4x weakness to Rocks. I can see this thing going up a rank, as it was only bad cause it was outclassed heavily by MSalamence... and obviously he isnt here anymore.
Having SR up in a calc is usually needed as Stealth Rock are going to be up most of the time, and it puts the Pokemon taking the attack in a position to see if they counter or not.
M-Manectric quite often runs Overheat, which isn't even STAB, yet he still gets away with it without being affected too much (admittedly, volt switch is probably a large contributor to this, but a well predicted hard switch can be used in lieu of that). The only way using Leaf Storm is a complete disadvantage in regards to cleaning is if your opponent has a large number of healthy mons left, while you have 1 or 2 damaged pokemon, resulting in very limited switches, but in a situation akin to this, you will most likely lose even if you have Giga Drain, as Sceptile is very reliant on switches, and on opposing walls to already be broken before it comes in.
M-Pinsir is fine is A. It still wrecks through unprepared teams but the meta has adapted to it with the high usage of Landorus-T, Thundurus, Talonflame, Rotom-W, M-Metagross and scarf Tyranitar and Excadrill.
It needs too much support to weaken its checks and keep rocks off for it to be as consistent as the other A+ Pokemon.
Also, I want to talk about M-Manectric. I don't understand why this should drop to A- because M-Manectric does really well against offensive and balance teams.
Raikou does NOT perform a similar role to M-Manectric since Raikou typically runs Assault Vest for SpD bulk whilst M-Manectric acts as an offensive pivot with Intimidate. This makes M-Manectric a much better bird check as well as a soft-check to 80% of the physical meta since it can come in on an opponents switch, deter it from staying in and get off another volt-switch to keep momentum. What really makes M-Manectric good though is its access to a fire move (Flamethrower or Overheat) which has great coverage since it roasts Steel and Grass types like Scizor, Ferrothorn and Serperior.
With hazard support, the opponent's team can get very worn down very quickly by spamming Volt Switch and U turn (from Landorus-T). M-Manectric is more similar to M-Lopunny than Raikou for maintaining offensive momentum and forcing switches while simultaneously giving your team more opportunities to bring in wallbreakers and cause havoc. M-Manectric has very low usage right now (apparently it may even drop to UU) but usage does not equate to viability and M-Manectric is a very under rated threat. Although Raikou has gotten better lately, this hasn't made M-Manectric any worse (unlike Serperior and M-Sceptile) since they are two different Pokémon.
RichieTheGarchomp
Banned deucer.
Didnt realise it was in A rank... I thought it was like A-...
I definetly agree with this however. Im actually liking Raikou a lot right now, and MMan is pretty good too, albeit a meh 135 SpA.
Alright, I'm going to propose a preliminary C- rank for Emboar.
When I made the Emboar thread, I initially thought that Reckless Band Emboar would be the set to put it on the rankings. However, after using it, Choice Scarf Emboar was doing really well while Band was more difficult to use.
Emboar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge / Grass Knot
- Superpower / Grass Knot
- Head Smash / Grass Knot
Choice Scarf Emboar outspeeds Tornadus-T and down, meaning that it outspeeds the majority of the relevant metagame. With Reckless and 123 base attack, it hits hard with Flare Blitz, Wild Charge and Head Smash while outspeeding most of OU when equipped with a Scarf. With these traits, it is able to put pressure on most offensive threats, including Mega Metagross, Mega Gallade, Raikou, weakened Keldeo, weakened Latis, weakened Mega Diancie, Charizard, Starmie, Gengar and others. It has enough firepower to 2HKO Mega Sableye and Clefable as well.
The main thing holding Scarf Emboar back is that it has to hold a Choice Scarf in the first place. It is very prediction reliant, meaning that the omnipresent Lando-T and Rotom-W can take advantage of it and it is walled by most bulky Waters without Grass Knot. It also doesn't have any moves like U-turn or Healing Wish to keep momentum and take advantage of the Scarf. However, it performs very well against offense, and decently against other teams, making it a fine choice in OU.
I managed to get a couple replays of Scarf Emboar:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-203920079
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-203917724
Emboar @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Head Smash
- Superpower
- Wild Charge
Band is the other set that I've used and, while it's disappointed me, it does its job pretty decently. It hits really hard to the point where it has no true counters and it can't be burned. It has a neutrality to Stealth Rock unlike other Fire type wallbreakers and its just fast enough to outspeed most defensive Pokemon. However, the state of the metagame is really unkind to it at the moment. Some defensive cores just take way too much prediction to break through. Rotom-W + Lando-T is an extremely common core at the moment that falls to Head Smash, but when there is a Mega Metagross or Ferrothorn waiting as well, it puts a lot of strain on the player. Also, Emboar's 110/65/65 bulk is only that of a standard offensive Pokemon and when combined with the recoil that it takes, Emboar is easy to wear down. Band Emboar needs a lot of support to function well: SR + Rapid Spin are required for Emboar to wallbreak at his best, and Wish/Healing Wish support is very helpful (Jirachi and Latias are good for this).
All in all, Choice Scarf Emboar at least deserves to be ranked somewhere in the C ranks, though I won't be to bothered if it's D rank until the metagame becomes more favorable for it.
To be honest, Emboar's best in a Trick Room team, as a decently effective wallbreaker due to very reliable coverage, pretty good bulk and resistance to the most commons OU priorities, as well as the access to a priority himself: Sucker Punch, which is always useful in OU.
Overall, Emboar's more suited to the C-/D Rank, due to him being kinda outclassed in regular play by Victini, except outside of TR, where he can really shine and shows his wallbreakings abilities, due to his access to various coverage moves on both side. Speaking of TR Abuser...
Escavalier for D: He hits like a truck, works very well in Trick Room due to his slow speed, and counters Non HP Fire Lati@s w/out any trouble, as well as few others mons such as Alakazam Mega, and checks quite a few threats that can be very annoying to stall, mainly Gengar.
Confirming the talk with Vertex but gonna address another point.
If you're gonna suggest anything to go from unranked to D or higher it would be nice to see some replays that aren't awful or at least worthwhile to prove the point. This isn't a pass to open the floodgates of your great ladder adventures with lando-t, rotom-w, talonflame filled teams so please don't flood the thread with that but there needs to be some hard evidence or legitimacy to get your argument across with more of an argument than, it outspeeds stuff under Trick Room. Jaguars360 is a decent example of what at least myself would be looking for something that gets the point across and addresses key traits relevant to the ranking. If we're gonna take your argument seriously back it up appropriately without the fluff cause the last thing we need is the entire UU tier and below be ranked. Thanks.
If you're gonna suggest anything to go from unranked to D or higher it would be nice to see some replays that aren't awful or at least worthwhile to prove the point. This isn't a pass to open the floodgates of your great ladder adventures with lando-t, rotom-w, talonflame filled teams so please don't flood the thread with that but there needs to be some hard evidence or legitimacy to get your argument across with more of an argument than, it outspeeds stuff under Trick Room. Jaguars360 is a decent example of what at least myself would be looking for something that gets the point across and addresses key traits relevant to the ranking. If we're gonna take your argument seriously back it up appropriately without the fluff cause the last thing we need is the entire UU tier and below be ranked. Thanks.
Can someone tell me what has changed that has made Raikou go up in usage and in viability?
As a person who has used escavalier a ton in the past, It's not really worth it tbh. Scizor is just all-around better, packing infinities more ultility with bullet-punch and U-turn, while not being outsped by literally everything that moves. We could rank it, but then we would have to rank a ton of other sheit with "niche".
EDIT: didnt see trick room, I guess it's alright, but trick room isnt exactly too viable right now tbh.
What do you all think about Chesnaught for A-? Belly Drum is actually viable on it now thanks to Drain Punch and aside from being able to kill almost everything once set up, not that many people expect it.
Chesnaught @ Salac Berry
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
Talonflame is a huge threat that keeps it in check, and must be dealt with before attempting to wreck souls with Chesnaught, but I've been playing around with this set and it's surprisingly very good. EV Spread lets you Sub + BD whilst keeping as much offensive power as possible, and once Salac berry is activated you can outspeed a surprising number of mons (I outsped a base 120 with this set, though I don't know if they were running +Spe or not).
Again, Tflame is a pain in the ass and because of it I don't see this guy rising any higher than this, but A- does seem fair all things considered.
EDIT: Changed Bulletproof to Overgrow for the sake of OHKOing Lati twins before DP recovery.
Chesnaught @ Salac Berry
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
Talonflame is a huge threat that keeps it in check, and must be dealt with before attempting to wreck souls with Chesnaught, but I've been playing around with this set and it's surprisingly very good. EV Spread lets you Sub + BD whilst keeping as much offensive power as possible, and once Salac berry is activated you can outspeed a surprising number of mons (I outsped a base 120 with this set, though I don't know if they were running +Spe or not).
Again, Tflame is a pain in the ass and because of it I don't see this guy rising any higher than this, but A- does seem fair all things considered.
EDIT: Changed Bulletproof to Overgrow for the sake of OHKOing Lati twins before DP recovery.
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