Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

[blinkie]

I'm not a pro so you can judge:

Mega Loppuny=A+ Reason: 1. Mega Metagross can live + zen headbutt. 2. Can't take a hit well (Do the calcs yourself)
Lando-t=A+ Reason: 1. People are making counters: Rotom, keldeo(scarf with lando is scarfed), lando-t (LOL), mega slowbruh(Need more)
Keldeo=A+ Reason: Its fine where it is I can name some pokemon that can counter it.
Zygarde=D Reason: Garchomp does the job better. Like really name 1 reason this thing is usefull!
Mega-Gardevoir=A- or B+ Reason: It doesn't do well against the new ORAS megas.

Well thats all I would change.

Mega Lopunny provides really good utility in Encore, BP, Healing Wish etc. Also has Fake out for useful chip damage and can mega safely without wasting protect, and is one of the best HO megas due to unresisted coverage + great speed tier. It can't really take hits but its kinda the same with all HO mons. It only has to use two moves on coverage and then it was a bunch of unpredictable options.

Agree with Lando to A+ pretty much for same reasons Jukain said, Keldeo also should definitely stay, its nowhere near MegaGross or Sableye level.

Zygarde has a small niche that it has access to DD and Coil. Also it has access to ESpeed so it isn't completely shut down by something like Weavile. The Glare set actually isn't that bad as well, it does a better job of shuffling than Dragon Tail Garchomp due to better bulk. Its niches are all really small, but its kinda enough for D rank like Flygon.

MGard should stay A. It has problems with MegaGross and Rachi but it also can fulfill a job of Sableye killer, something pretty much every team needs now. The Taunt set is also good for taking out Chansey, meaning it is one of the best stallbreaking megas. Doublade is also not really the stall glue it used to be, meaning Gardevoir can spam its moves easily. It can work well on teams that have problems with Stall and Sableye, such as Sand Offense. It can also do an ok job of checking Special Mega Altaria and Mega Latias. It has bad defense but it actually has really good Special Defense for an attacker. Also MegaGross has to watch out before switching in due to possible WoW, so I don't really think it got any worse.

 

[AM]

Well to be fair there's a reason why we're asking people on why M-Lopunny should drop or not. It's not like trc and the ranking team made the nomination in his original post out of thin air. It was all from games we reviewed from SPL and opinions from various players. Some think it's S, some don't so give us some reasons why or why not and not just the obvious "it shits on HO". We know this already, this part isn't rocket science. Give us some reasons on how it realistically fares against various archetypes that are seen in the tier now without the fluff to take the case seriously.

This is for ranking teams sake when they read it but I'm gonna agree with the sentiment that Omastar should be B+ under the wall-breaker role for Rain. In regards to rain I'm probably gonna ask reasons on why M-Swampert should stay in B when I feel it's more accustomed to B+. I know there was a huge debate on it last thread arguing why you would use your mega role for rain or another but I'll make a long story short and I know ben gay brought this up with the team, M-Swampert has been seen on almost all the rain teams I've seen outside of Trickzio's Rain team, the one with M-Heracross in it. It's not even an issue of the whole opportunity cost argument that people established early on. It's used on a lot of successful rain teams so I don't really see the point in having it at a B rank level unless there's a valid reason why.

I know we get sidetracked by other nominations but some of these I haven't seen a lot of discussion on so for reference sake use this link here to see some topics of discussion. Feel free to discuss whatever you would like, reasonably of course, but I'm interested right now in peoples opinions on Excadrill's placement.

 

[56k]

I think to make an analysis on Excadrill you need to examine three separate and independent cases.

1. Is tyranitar + excadrill sand offense a good combo in this meta?

2. Is excadrill a good stand alone offensive spinner on balanced teams?

3. Is excadrill a good rocks and/or spin on stall teams?



1. In my opinion nothing has really changed here in the transition to ORAS. Gallade makes life harder for ttar, but metagross is a new target for drill. Sableye usually beats ttar, but can't necessarily switch in to spinblock for fear of life orb EQ. Swampert and rain oppose the playstyle completely, but diancie and beedrill are completely useless in front of sand boosted excadrill. Latis are almost the only defoggers used by offensive teams and ttar can 100% remove them, they also do NOT appreciate attacks from drill (who resists their STABs as well). This can be utilized for a plethora of teammates (keldeo :/) who work well when those latis are gone for good. Another great advantage here is you have a mini core of weather control, speed control, hazard control, and pursuit wrapped up in a nice neat package, leaving all 4 slots open for whatever mega and playstyle you want to use. Finally, STAB LO Iron Head hits fairies hard as FUCK and they're just everywhere right now. Not to mention the flinch chances it gives you when you've otherwise lost. 30% is better than nothing and most people don't really want to admit just how often 3/10 chances determine their tournament matches.

2. Here, mold breaker is used at the cost of speed. A whole different set of mons you can OHKO opens up, like the ever present Rotom-W. It also makes it really difficult for a gengar to spin block you, and he's everywhere right now as well. You can fire off your best STAB move if you ever get in a fight against latios and really make him regret it. You are guaranteed to survive two hits from Latias and meanwhile kill it off. Excadrill is STRONG and nullifying levitate is a huge bonus for him: flying types don't really want to switch in to a rockslide, obvious switches like skarmory are at least a free chance to spin, and drill's typing and 110 hp often lets him take a clutch hit when you really need to get one last attack off.

#1 and #2 suffer from some serious drawbacks. It is very easy for 1 pokemon to counter both of them, giving the opponent quite an advantage. Pokemon like landorus, hippowdon, tangrowth, garchomp, ferrothorn, and sableye can (depending on movesets and turn order) often counter the whole core. You might consider this as a situation where you are playing a 6v5 game and are essentially down from the matchup. But at the same time it might be possible to break through that link by doubling up on it with pressure, hazards, and sand damage. Sometimes when that blanket counter falls it leaves a huge opening to be exploited, and it is usually up to Ttar to run the surprise moves like ice beam. However, because it is generally just too easy to take advantage of the ground and fighting weaknesses, I don't think any ranking improvements are warranted.

3. Bulkier drill with lefties or airballon or AV can sometimes be seen on stall teams that have worked themselves into a corner and need a very specific set of hazard controlling and counter certain threats. There is also the seriously advantageous ability to set rocks on sableye, which can often be a determining factor in stall vs stall. At the same time, excadrill packs a punch and has useful resistances and immunities, pairing up well with sableye himself due to the ability to kill some fairies. However, this type of set is less common because with middling speed, no recovery, and limited coverage it is very hard for it to function as effectively as the more offensively inclined sets. Still, it's there as an option, and every viable option definitely improves a pokemon as a whole. You can definitely put that 110hp stat to good use and keep the thing around with wish supports if you are so inclined to build such a team. But the rest of your stall team is going to be spent on handling wallbreakers like manaphy and landorus-i and talonflame which excadrill is contributing nothing at all to. I think this is the worst use of excadrill (but still notable enough to mention as niche)

Overall I think some sort of "worsening" has to be demonstrated if you want to move excadrill's ranking down. It definitely has NOT improved: rain usage is up, lando-t usage is up, and gallade/loppuny/metagross/slowbro give the whole sand archtype a host of problems. However, just as many targets have risen to compensate this. Excadrill is one of the few ground types that can outspeed and 100% ohko metagross. It also survives a fireblast from clefable and either kills it or leaves it in unrecoverable range to be picked off. Same with altaria. Most of the new megas rely on their speed and with sand support excadrill can nullify all of that and cleansweep through weakened teams. I feel pretty conservative and don't want to be the one to suggest rank changes because I'm pretty conflicted if it has actually gotten worse at all.

 

[skies]

C+ ---> B-​

Unsure of how other people feel about this nomination, but I'm going to go ahead anyways. Mega Pidgeot is, quite frankly, very good. Between a high Speed stat, never-missing Hurricane, and a nice Special Attack, Mega Pidgeot gets nearly perfect coverage in just two moves. Just Hurricane and Heat Wave hit the large majority of the metagame, with the only Pokemon on this list not hit super effectively bar Rock-types are Heatran, Rotom-W, Rotom-H, and Ampharos-Mega, with only the first two of these four being of relevance. Hurricane is just so absolutely delicious, and its exceptional coverage makes it so low-risk to use. No Guard is truly a blessing to Pidgeot, and it's the main reason to use it in the first place. Mega Pidgeot really just needs to have the turn to Mega Evolve and it's all set. With Greninja being gone now, it's even harder to revenge kill this thing with its solid Speed stat. On Hyperoffense / Balanced, Mega Pidgeot outspeeds Keldeo, Mega Metagross, Latios, Mega Gallade, Mega Pinsir, Tornadus-T, amongst many more. This is where its good matchup comes in, as Hurricane is enough to be let ripped.

However, Mega Pidgeot does require team support, which is what really holds it back. Mega Pidgeot, from my experiences, needs a safe method of bringing it in, hazard removal, and Dugtrio. Dugtrio is an excellent partner to Mega Pidgeot, as it traps its biggest issues: Heatran and Diancie. Dugtrio sets Stealth Rock, which is especially useful. Dugtrio's ability to go down and bring Mega Pidgeot is another huge perk. The combo of these two alone is very effective and very powerful. Hazard removal is something I've noticed as well because Mega Pidgeot is using U-turn to pivot. The set I'm currently running is Hurricane / Heat Wave / U-turn / [Roost / Hyper Beam]. Hazard removal can come from Starmie, Latios, or anything else really, and it's not exactly too hard to give it; however, the problem is that Mega Pidgeot heavily appreciates Stealth Rock on the opponent's field, making Defog a liability.

Nonetheless, Mega Pidgeot deserves a rank bump. I don't see it along the same lines of Mega Medicham, which is infinitely inferior to Mega Gallade in every way. Mega Pidgeot is just a tough case and doesn't have all the power in the world. B Ranking is more suited for it, but B is very much pushing it. I'd also like to mention opportunity cost here, as it's a thing when using every Mega. I don't think it applies to Mega Pidgeot because nothing else serves the role of fast, Flying-type with huge firepower bar perhaps Mega Charizard Y, but it's not nearly as fast. Mega Pidgeot is very underrated in the current metagame but I think it's here to stay for quite awhile.

Also, unrelated to this nomination, but this is my 1000th post in this subforum. n_n. Cheers!

 

[Gloating]

Is there even any reason at all to use Mega Tyranitar? There's better DD users and it competes against it's base self which can actually hold items like CB, CS and Smooth Rock. Am I crazy if I say it should probably be in D or unranked?

 

[bludz]

I think Excadrill should stay in A.

Its speed + bulk (neither are bad but neither stand out enough) hold it back a bit since there are a lot of faster fighting, fire and ground types running around. Although all the A+ rank steels are actually slower, Heatran is incredible defensively and both Mega Scizor (also much bulkier than Excadrill) and Bisharp get access to powerful priority STAB attacks. Scizor and Heatran are also better Fairy checks.

As for ground types ranked above Excadrill, both forms of Landorus are faster and more powerful off the bat.

Of course, Excadrill can spin, set up rocks or be a sand sweeper. The problem is as a spinner he has no reliable recovery and has a worse speed tier than Latis and Starmie (who both have recovery as well). It's nice to not be weak to pursuit trappers so there's that, but as an offensive threat with utility, Excadrill just lacks either enough speed or bulk to be A+ IMO. The sand sweeper is deadly but is still weak to 2 forms of priority attacks, gets walled by a few things and is checked by several mons at full HP (i.e. Keldeo or Garchomp).

Obviously none of the pokemon I named outclass Excadrill all around, but have traits (mostly speed or bulk) that allow them to check more threats. Excadrill is still a really good pokemon and a personal favorite of mine but I don't see it as A+, I think it should stay where it is. It's a good hazard remover with good typing, ability, and power, but lacks the speed to sweep without sand support or the bulk to switch into resisted attacks a bunch of times to retaliate.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Alright, it's about time I speak for Mega Lopunny again. Perhaps its just my own view on what S should be reserved for, but I do not think Mega Lopunny is S rank material. When I see S, I think Pokemon in which the meta revolves around, something that your team damn near has to have a counter for otherwise you've lost. Sadly, as much as I love Mega Lopunny, she does not fit that description (neither does Landorus T, but that's neither here nor there). I see S as borderline broken Pokemon, pokemon in which you have to be prepared for or else you've lost (Do not consider Mega Mence and Greninja when trying to understand my point as they took that to an entirely different level). Yes, we all know Mega Lopunny destroys Hyper offense with her amazing speed and high base power moves, however, that is not the only play style out there, as a matter of fact, from what I've seen, it's not even the most common anymore, but perhaps that's just my experience.

Mega Lopunny is a great Pokemon, a Pokemon capable of doing many things at once. However, She is also a Pokemon that isn't able to just tear through whatever comes in on it like Megagross, as well as not being able to be the best glue a team could ever need such as Mega Sableye AKA Stall's saving Grace. Although Mega Lopunny does do great vs offensive teams, we need to remember Megagross does too. That newly found benchmark speed is amazing for something capable of hitting as hard as it does, and the bulk further exacerbates this. Can we really say Mega Lopunny is on the same level as Megagross? Most of us would agree that Mega Lopunny and Megagross are not on the same level, same goes for Mega Sableye. Mega Lopunny is a great Pokemon, damn near perfect, but it's so easy to accidentally prepare for it, it's not even funny; LandoT, Defensive fairies, checks out the wazoo, TFlame, etc. Perhaps if and when we downsize our S rank (won't go into too much detail on how) I can see Mega Lopunny as S. However, that's if and only if we get rid of the Pokemon currently running the meta, however, that's neither here nor there.

Thing is, the reason I don't see Mega Lopunny as S, isn't so much Lopunny herself, as much as it is my idea of what makes an S rank Pokemon.
I went into why I didn't like introducing Mega Lopunny into S previously, but it seemed to go un-noticed. My opinion on it stays the same though.

So, if we're being REALLY lenient on what S rank consists of, I can see Mega Lopunny being S. However, when I look at S tier in every other game, it's foreseen as borderline broken, something I, along with many others I'm sure, do not feel Mega Lopunny fits.

Long story short; Mega Lopunny should go back to A+.

 

[Teeny Victory]

I'll make this short let as I'm on phone Rn, but I do support excadrill moving up to a+, as it is very good in the current meta. The most common and most consistent performing set atm is the lo set with 3 attacks and rapid spin/SD. This set is made extremely good with two things in the current meta

1. Hippo and ScarfTar are two very good Mons for balances builds at, hippo reliably checks electrics, nearly every physical attacker in the meta and sets rocks reliably. Scarftar gets rid of annoying Latis and gengars, who balanced hates dealing with, as well as checking birds and both zards. These two Mons being good favours excadrill immensely, as the better the sand users get, the better excadrill gets. Excadrill is kinda annoyed by the fact that these two Mons are seen less and less holding smooth rock as they are very good Mons on there own and prefer holding a lefties/scarf, but excadrill still wrecks teams in 5 turns anyway, so that's not really a down point.

2. Defensive variants of lando-t are much rarer these days, as most teams prefer either it's scarf set, offensive earth plate set or its set up sets as these sets hit harder and add a Win condition. This favours excadrill a lot too as defensive lando is one of excas best and most common checks, and it's offensive sets are much easier for exca to break thru/wear down with their lack of defence investment and lefties, so that helps exca a lot.

So in conclusion, excadrill to a+, as sand setters are better, defensive lando is less common, and the meta is just less prepared for it in general

 

[Roxachronic]

I'll make this short let as I'm on phone Rn, but I do support excadrill moving up to a+, as it is very good in the current meta. The most common and most consistent performing set atm is the lo set with 3 attacks and rapid spin/SD. This set is made extremely good with two things in the current meta

1. Hippo and ScarfTar are two very good Mons for balances builds at, hippo reliably checks electrics, nearly every physical attacker in the meta and sets rocks reliably. Scarftar gets rid of annoying Latis and gengars, who balanced hates dealing with, as well as checking birds and both zards. These two Mons being good favours excadrill immensely, as the better the sand users get, the better excadrill gets. Excadrill is kinda annoyed by the fact that these two Mons are seen less and less holding smooth rock as they are very good Mons on there own and prefer holding a lefties/scarf, but excadrill still wrecks teams in 5 turns anyway, so that's not really a down point.

2. Defensive variants of lando-t are much rarer these days, as most teams prefer either it's scarf set, offensive earth plate set or its set up sets as these sets hit harder and add a Win condition. This favours excadrill a lot too as defensive lando is one of excas best and most common checks, and it's offensive sets are much easier for exca to break thru/wear down with their lack of defence investment and lefties, so that helps exca a lot.

So in conclusion, excadrill to a+, as sand setters are better, defensive lando is less common, and the meta is just less prepared for it in general

Is not Starmie a much faster choice for RS and Latis still around for defogging? I am not saying Excadrill is bad ar anything,but clearing hazards is actually easier , and there also exists a reasonable amount of SR(Lando-T or Ferro for example).

Excadrill cannot wreck in 5 turns if your Tyra or Hippo don't have an smooth rock(since it has 4 turns at most), Gyara or Lando-T in practice deal with it even when no running defensive sets, of course it requires a little bit of prediction.

There is not a moment when I am builgin a team and say ''I have not counters/checks for Excadrill'' or ''I need some counters/checks for Excadrill'', the first one is because a lot of the popular mons can deal with it(M-Sableye,Gyara,Lando-T,Ferro,Skarm to name a few), the second one is because there are much more important threats like M-CharX or M-Altaria who are not dependant in their partner seting up for them and are much more threatening than Excadrill.

Excadrill is a solid mon, but if anything it has some serious competition clearing hazards, setting them or EQ spamming, of course it is one of the few that can do all of that, but in reality you usually need one pokemon to set hazards(like Ferro) and another to clear them(Lati).

Glad that M-Sceptile went to B+, still wanting Raikou for A- for what I stated in 5 posts, but oh well I suppose I will have for the meta to develop more and offense to raise a bit,seriously I cannot find a better Volt Switch user for Offense(and before you say M-Manectric remember that important and costly jewel called mega slot.), Magnezone has the great ability to trap Steel types, but Specs Raikou is actually faster and stronger, which is more important for providing momentum.

 

[Teeny Victory]

Is not Starmie a much faster choice for RS and Latis still around for defogging? I am not saying Excadrill is bad ar anything,but clearing hazards is actually easier , and there also exists a reasonable amount of SR(Lando-T or Ferro for example).

Excadrill cannot wreck in 5 turns if your Tyra or Hippo don't have an smooth rock(since it has 4 turns at most), Gyara or Lando-T in practice deal with it even when no running defensive sets, of course it requires a little bit of prediction.

There is not a moment when I am builgin a team and say ''I have not counters/checks for Excadrill'' or ''I need some counters/checks for Excadrill'', the first one is because a lot of the popular mons can deal with it(M-Sableye,Gyara,Lando-T,Ferro,Skarm to name a few), the second one is because there are much more important threats like M-CharX or M-Altaria who are not dependant in their partner seting up for them and are much more threatening than Excadrill.

Excadrill is a solid mon, but if anything it has some serious competition clearing hazards, setting them or EQ spamming, of course it is one of the few that can do all of that, but in reality you usually need one pokemon to set hazards(like Ferro) and another to clear them(Lati).

Glad that M-Sceptile went to B+, still wanting Raikou for A- for what I stated in 5 posts, but oh well I suppose I will have for the meta to develop more and offense to raise a bit,seriously I cannot find a better Volt Switch user for Offense(and before you say M-Manectric remember that important and costly jewel called mega slot.), Magnezone has the great ability to trap Steel types, but Specs Raikou is actually faster and stronger, which is more important for providing momentum.

While starmie and the Latis may be much better at consistently clearing hazards, that is not excas main role in a team, his role is too deal as much damage as possible while only clearing hazards when they must go away. If you are running a team that is built around an excadrill sweep (quite an effective archetype) Then a lot of teams will choose to run SD over spin on excadrill, and this pulls a lot of surprise sweeps. Rapid spin driller should only really be a dedicated spinner in bird teams and the like, when you really need an almost guaranteed spin at times, otherwise it only really spins on a switch and the like. And I wouldn't say exca has any competition for its role all really, it's the only thing in the game that has that much power and that much speed unboosted (in sand) and it can also pull off a sweep and such. (remember I dedicated my post to the sand rush set) And I don't know about you, but I find myself building many (offensive admittadly) teams where the only thing really "stopping" exca is scarfed lando or a full health keldeo, both of which are easy to wear down. Yeah, I do agree with you that as a dedicated spinner exca faces some people big competition, but as a sand rush sweeper, it definitely finds a spot in the current meta in the A+ rank (idk if you're agreeing with me or saying it should stay in a, as you never mentioned it in you're post)

 

[astroboy]

im on mobile but
i feel like exca is definitely getting better, but y'all are forgetting gliscor is killer in this meta (glisc should go to a+ btw but ill talk about this later). ive always been partial to the mold breaker set, which i see running toxic for sableye, but that means it has to give up rock slide, leaving it vulnerable to base gyara and talonflame to set up on it. on the other hand, i feel like sand rush exca is super good rn cause ttar and hippo are good too. but due to how relient it is on sand setters to get significant work in is definitely hurting it (and with effectively 4 turns of sand to work with now is rlly :[ ) and i feel like exca is fine where it is, atleast for now.

 

[Teeny Victory]

im on mobile but
i feel like exca is definitely getting better, but y'all are forgetting gliscor is killer in this meta (glisc should go to a+ btw but ill talk about this later). ive always been partial to the mold breaker set, which i see running toxic for sableye, but that means it has to give up rock slide, leaving it vulnerable to base gyara and talonflame to set up on it. on the other hand, i feel like sand rush exca is super good rn cause ttar and hippo are good too. but due to how relient it is on sand setters to get significant work in is definitely hurting it (and with effectively 4 turns of sand to work with now is rlly :[ ) and i feel like exca is fine where it is, atleast for now.

Remember that gliscors best set atm is the Specially Defensive SD set, and that excadril runs a very competent swords dance set and:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 317-374 (90 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
yeah you only need a bit of prior damage to kill it (hard to get on a mon like gliscor, but still), so gliscor isn't really holding exca back from moving up.
(not saying gliscor isn't a exca check, just that exca can beat it if it SDs on the switch)

 

[Kurona]

//cracks knuckles
Time for super-duper-uber long post. Wish I'd saved this for 2000 but hey I wasted it telling someone Sun is shit

B --> B+
It's actually kind of incredible that Kingdra and Kabutops are B+ and Mega Swampert is below them. In addition to agreeing with what has been said the past few pages about moving it up, I hand on heart think Mega Swampert is honestly the best Pokémon that takes advantage of rain. Anyone saying Kabutops outclasses it has no idea what they're talking about because once Rain's up, there's barely anything stopping this 'mon from wrecking havoc. It provides the unique characteristic of huge bulk and despite Kabutops maybe hitting a little harder, Mega Swampert still almost reaches that level of insane power and STAB Rain Waterfall is really enough to shread through offensive teams. Unlike other rain team members it doesn't care about any form of priority, it isn't hampered by T-wave, and the few Pokémon that can outspeed it by boosting or scarf cannot touch it. I'd even say that Kabutops and Swampert should have their rankings switched with Top going to B, but for now, I feel that the absolute best swift swimmer in the entire game should go to B+. Despite it's shortcomings of taking up the Mega Slot - actually hardly an argument because it's easily the best Mega for rain and there's few circumstances you'd want Heracross instead - and taking a turn for Swift Swim to take effect, Swampert's pros are far too hard to ignore.

A- --> B+
Mega Heracross suffers immensely from opportunity cost and having to experience an entirely new meta. In a game where speed and power is preferred over power and bulk and where so many hard-hitting Megas like Gallade, Metagross and Diancie have been introduced, Hera now finds it hard to stand out. While none of these directly outclass Heracross - though a case could certainly be made to a certain extent for Gallade being a better Swords Dancer - the simple fact is that Heracross now has more wallbreakers to compete with than before and the Pokémon it had the distinction of breaking through are now broken by these other Pokémon. In addition, the rise of Sableye means Heracross finds it harder to play around stall than before as it cannot switch in for fear of a burn nor can it face it an unevolved one also for fear of a burn. While it still has unique niches, insane hitting power, can still demolish stall and still has unique moves to utilize, I feel the metagame changes mean it has more to compete with and needs more support in it's role than before.

C --> C-/D
As with Mega Heracross, opportunity cost weighs down heavily upon Mega Aggron. Unless someone can enlighten me on what it does I'm honestly not seeing the use in it anymore. You've got better stall Megas now (Slowbro, Sableye), it's not hard to pack a counter for it, and the only affect it's seemed to have on the ORAS Metagame so far is that there's no point to using Mega Steelix when it exists. But I must posit the question that despite it's unique niche in Filter and it's insane defence coupled with a great typing, what does it actually do? It just sort of... sits there and walls things. It can spread Paralysis, but that's generally better done by Klefki who has priority, still great defences and an arguably better typing. Maybe I'm going out on a limb here but I'm not sure what it's doing in C.

Couple of things to add on to previous noms.

Hide

Nothing much to mention here; just saying that I forgot to mention last time that CB Scizor is still extremely good in addition to the SD Scizor; and that I feel the fact that it has these two viable sets than just one gives it more of a reason to move to B+.

Also nothing much to mention here; but I'd like to point out that it's cleric set is still viable; having more offensive presence and a bigger wish to pass than Clefable. It's really not much and I wouldn't use it too much myself but that in addition to specs should honestly move it up to B. Specs is still the big thing I'm pushing for here.

And now for a relatively controversial nomination.

Mega Blastoise for C+ or possibly B-
​

Yes, Mega Blastoise. While making my Aggron nom I was originally going to lump Mega Blastoise in the same pile and nom it for C-/D as someone did before me. Then I done a little research, a look at some usage stats and some calcs and found that Mega Blastoise is in fact hilarious underrated and anti-meta right now.
I had a discussion with ThePack on Skype about this earlier while doing some calcs and he can back me up that this thing if played right can be an absolute monster. It's a complete check if not counter to every S-rank 'mon, it easily handled other common Pokémon such as Heatran, Lati@s, Slowbro, Bisharp and Talonflame, and Pokémon it can't beat 1-1 can't switch into it safely such as Rotom-W and Ferrothorn. I think the best way to demonstrate this is through calcs, but honestly, this guy really deserves another look. Fuck new toy syndrome; #armcannons all the way.

Tanking hits

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 153-180 (42.7 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 67-81 (18.7 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
+1 4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 102-120 (28.4 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 187-222 (52.2 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 178-210 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 160-190 (44.6 - 53%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 120-142 (33.5 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 246-290 (68.7 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 292-345 (81.5 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 202-238 (56.4 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 140-168 (39.1 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 210-248 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 220-261 (61.4 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 201-237 (56.1 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 244-288 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Tanking hits

252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 201-237 (56.1 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 244-288 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(spoiler tags are fucking up here dunno why)

Hits dealt back

252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 402-474 (126 - 148.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (also gets a guaranteed OHKO on defensive lando without rocks lol)
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 148-175 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 306-362 (112.9 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 272-320 (90.3 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 792-932 (291.1 - 342.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (topkek)
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 272-320 (90.9 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 236-278 (73.9 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 450-530 (137.6 - 162%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 140-165 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 226-266 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 129-153 (46.5 - 55.2%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gallade: 147-174 (53 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 190-225 (57 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The last few calcs may be unimpressive; but the general point of them shows that Mega Blastoise is not easy to switch into at all. I am aware that I used Water Pulse over the more recommended Scald or Hydro Pump in these calcs; but the extra power is really wanted to secure the 2HKO on Sableye (0.4% chance to 2HKO with Scald; 94.9% chance to KO with Water Pulse) and certain other 'mon. Hydro Pump being used in succession for a 2HKO on Sableye should be seen as bad for obvious reasons; but Scald is certainly viable to fish for a scald. Also, the very fact that it's a spinner that can beat Sableye is honestly well worth a rise. Sableye can't even wear it down with Will-o because if it's not recovering every turn it will die. Of course it does have it's flaws; no recovery for a 'mon like this is very bad and it hence really needs wish support (could pair pretty well with Clefable). Opportunity cost also weighs heavily upon it due to the new Megas. But all in all, this is a Pokémon whose flaws seem exaggerated and needs another look at. It works better in this new meta than XY in my honest opinion.
Mega Blastoise for C+.

 

[Flare Blitzle]

I agree with the earlier person who said Mega Lopunny should move down to A+. As much as I supported it when it was originally brought up, I disagree with it now. I've used it a lot and it's a really great Mega that's so very consistent and can be awkward to play around at times, but honestly the only mons I think should be S are Mega Metagross and Mega Sableye. They completely dominate the OU meta in a way that nothing else really comes close imo. While Mega Lop can be good against a variety of playstyles, depending on the moveset, it just doesn't have the stranglehold that the other two Megas in S have; it doesn't seem fair to give it an equal ranking to them. I see Keldeo, Clefable, Lando-T, Mega Lop as all really borderline cases that could be S, but when compared with Mega Sableye and Mega Metagross, who are very clearly S and shouldn't (and won't I'm sure) drop from there, they don't come close imo.

Then I done a little research, a look at some usage stats and some calcs and found that Mega Blastoise is in fact hilarious underrated and anti-meta right now.
I had a discussion with ThePack on Skype about this earlier while doing some calcs and he can back me up that this thing if played right can be an absolute monster.

My problem with this nomination is that, at least how you're explaining it, it's entirely made up of theory and not from you using it (forgive me if I'm wrong and you've been using it though). Especially with lower ranked mons, I think it's best to provide some replays of it having consistency because theory rarely works out in practice as we often know. And personally, I haven't seen a Mega Blastoise for ages; once you get past the lower ladder it doesn't really exist in my experience, so some replays of it being good in the higher ladder would be more convincing than calcs. I would like to see Mega Blastoise doing well though, it's sad that it's the only Kanto starter Mega that's meh :(

 

[Celticpride]

Is there even any reason at all to use Mega Tyranitar? There's better DD users and it competes against it's base self which can actually hold items like CB, CS and Smooth Rock. Am I crazy if I say it should probably be in D or unranked?

I think its fine in B-. That's where M-Latios and M-Garchomp are currently as well. As far as its actual functioning as a DDer, Keldeo is usually a real problem, but that's also a problem for Mega Gyarados. Every DDer has things that give it issues, and Tyranitar's movepool is wide enough that it can basically pick and choose its counters (you can even run TPunch to lure Keldeo, who almost always comes in on it). Landorus-T being everywhere doesn't help, but -1 Ice Punch does 86-102% if you attack instead of DD on the switch-in, effectively crippling it for the rest of the match. It also doesn't have to use DD either, it’s got access to Rock Polish. Not popular, but running Adamant Rock Polish instead of Jolly DD fixes some of its issues. It should stay with or above Mega Latios at minimum, because at least it has unique, notable positives over its base form, where Mega Latios has very minimal positives over LO Latios. That's adding onto the fact it's already taken a huge hit to get to where it is, it used to be one of the most dominant Megas period. It dropped to B- because there are other DDers and Megas, and it's always had competition with regular TTar. As far as D or unranked? Bro, it's better than Mega Glalie. It's basically Mega Garchomp at this point, Mega that happens to be on an overall really dominant Pokemon, making it a defined subset instead of the entire reason it in OU.

 

[C AllStar]

Never liked this thread due to the amount of bandwagon and theorymon. But guess that I'm so bored right now so I'll write something.

Mega-Lopunny: Disagree with this dropping. Tbh the risk of using M-Loppuny is even lower when compared with M-Metagross. Mega Metagross while can theoretically 'beat' the whole metagame with four moveslots, is really reliant on prediction to do so. It needs to nail the Rotom-W with Zen Headbutt and the Ferrothorn with Hammer Arm as well as the Slowbro with Grass Knot or risk being crippled by status. While Mega Lopunny can't 2HKO 90% of the meta like M-Metagross, both Return and High Jump Kick are incredibly spammable STABs that have little resists. It doesn't require prediction to be effective. Being a check to Gengar is cool too consider how hard it is to switch on it. It's support options are repeated 10000 times in the thread already and I'm not gonna talk about it again.

Keldeo: Agree with it being S. It has check and counters but it outlasts all of them sans Celebi.

Clefable: Outlasts all its counters while constantly checking stuffs. Easiest thing to slap on team except for maybe Lando-T. It should be S.

Lando-T: Too much 5050 when using Scarf. SubBU and SubSD are overrated sets that forfeits it's most valuable utility of checking physical attackers if it uses Sub, even though they're pretty effective in right situations. Double Dance is okay but it's checks and counters aren't that easy to remove/wear down so it is really dependent on team support. A+ seems fair.

Magnezone: It has huge effect on the metagame but it is unreliable af. You never know whether the opponent's steels are carrying Shed Shell or not unless you are using Knock Off lures to support a team suppporter lol. Specs Analytic is cool against stall too but nowhere near A material. B+ seems better for it.

Raikou: 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 149-176 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

This is what happened when I tried to use it as a bird check. Not even that strong with specs too. B Rank material.

Conkeldurr: What does it even do except for taking some hits and die. Too weak and easy to wear down to have any permanent effect on the match. Both Stall and Balance naturally fits counters to it while it can usually only exchange one poke when facing offense. Drain Punch rarely gives it enough recovery considering the amount of things resisting it. It doesn't even really enjoy Burns/Toxics too as they wear it down way too quickly. B- Rank.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Mega-Lopunny: Disagree with this dropping. Tbh the risk of using M-Loppuny is even lower when compared with M-Metagross. Mega Metagross while can theoretically 'beat' the whole metagame with four moveslots, is really reliant on prediction to do so. It needs to nail the Rotom-W with Zen Headbutt and the Ferrothorn with Hammer Arm as well as the Slowbro with Grass Knot or risk being crippled by status. While Mega Lopunny can't 2HKO 90% of the meta like M-Metagross, both Return and High Jump Kick are incredibly spammable STABs that have little resists. It doesn't require prediction to be effective. Being a check to Gengar is cool too consider how hard it is to switch on it. It's support options are repeated 10000 times in the thread already and I'm not gonna talk about it again.

You can disagree with Mega Lopunny dropping all you want, but how can you possibly say it is less "risky" to use than Megagross? Megagross has about as much risk as Mega Lopunny, if not less, since it clicks a move with very little consequence as well. Spamming Return and HJK is nice because of the lack of prediction, but that doesn't automatically make something S rank. I explained what makes S rank, and it seems as though you merely glanced over it. Perhaps you don't agree with my idea on what an S rank mon is and that's fine, but saying spamming STAB is less risky than clicking X move with very little consequence is just plain wrong.

Opportunity cost is a hefty buzz word around here, and a buzz word that is very applicable in this instance.

 

[Kurona]

I'm not entirely sure how Lopunny is less risky than Metagross when HJK shaves off half your health if you miss or hit a protect.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

i feel like i should mention that raikous best set(cm volt switch) allows it to fulfill the role of being a wincon that wears down its own checks

 

[C AllStar]

You can disagree with Mega Lopunny dropping all you want, but how can you possibly say it is less "risky" to use than Megagross? Megagross has about as much risk as Mega Lopunny, if not less, since it clicks a move with very little consequence as well. Spamming Return and HJK is nice because of the lack of prediction, but that doesn't automatically make something S rank. I explained what makes S rank, and it seems as though you merely glanced over it. Perhaps you don't agree with my idea on what an S rank mon is and that's fine, but saying spamming STAB is less risky than clicking X move with very little consequence is just plain wrong.

Opportunity cost is a hefty buzz word around here, and a buzz word that is very applicable in this instance.

Mega Metagross is actually far easier to check than Mega Lopunny. While it has the potential to nail its switch ins with the appropriate coverage move, it is extremely prediction reliant. The consequences of MegaGross predicting wrong is actually very high too considering common threats like Mandibuzz, Slowbro, Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, Celebi etc can easily switch into a resisted move and threaten to cripple it with status. Consider how easy it is to natually fit a few of MegaCross checks in a team, Idk why would you even think that MegaGross clicking the wrong move is low risk unless you are god of coin flips. While Mega Lopunny can't 2HKO the entire metagame, it is still incredibly hard to switch into. What separates it from MegaGross is it can simply spam is STAB moves with little to no risks due to the limited amount of resists and high power of both of its STabs. Even its counters take above 40% as all of them rely on sheer bulk rather than resistance to wall it, forcing them to recover in order to constantly switching into it. With options like Encore, PuP and Sub, it can even force 5050 on its 'counters'. Mega Lopunny is actually far harder to check than Mega Metagross. The main advantage of Mega Metagross over Mega Lopunny is actually its bulk and defensive typing offering it defensive utility.

I'm not entirely sure how Lopunny is less risky than Metagross when HJK shaves off half your health if you miss or hit a protect.

K then you may as well say nearly nothing on MegaGross' standard moveset is more accurate than HJK. At least Mega Bunny has perfectly accurate STab Return. Missing a move at crutial time doesn't hurt less than losing 50% of health.

i feel like i should mention that raikous best set(cm volt switch) allows it to fulfill the role of being a wincon that wears down its own checks

Having exactly try this set so I'll test it before giving an opinion. Though i hate how hazard weak it is when compared to its counters(Hippowdon, Celebi, Amoonguss etc).

 

[Jukain]

I agree with dropping Mega Lopunny down to A+. I think '6-0ing HO' is vastly overexaggerated because it's fairly easy to incorporate methods of checking and revenge killing Mega Lopunny, including mons like Scarf Landorus-T, Metagross, Azumarill, Scarftran, Scarf Latios, Talonflame, Thundurus-I, and Klefki. I don't run hyper offense that frequently because I generally prefer the consistency of balanced builds, but if you have a way of revenge killing it and some sort of decent check or two, you can usually turn out fine and that's all that you really need for hyper offense. Teams that are more bulky offense and balance-oriented have tons of options to deal with Lopunny that include but are not limited to Clefable, Mega/normal Slowbro, defensive Mega Altaria, defensive Landorus-T (barring Ice Punch), physically defensive Gliscor (barring Ice Punch), Celebi, Mew, and Hippowdon. Stall typically has few problems with it because, in reality, Lopunny doesn't exactly have a ton of raw power to work with and is easy to cover with the physically bulky Pokemon typically run on stall teams. Lopunny is still a big threat to offense because it outruns pretty much every non-Scarf Pokemon in the tier and doesn't really have much in the way of solid, reliable checks for offense, but it's easily checked by the predominant balance/bulky offense archetype in this metagame. There's also the opportunity cost of running Mega Lopunny over Mega Metagross, which is much more difficult to handle defensively and still a threat and a half to offense because of its ridiculous bulk and insane offensive capabilities, as well as potential to run a devastating Agility set that often has little trouble punching massive holes in if not sweeping offensive teams on its own. They're different Pokemon, but there's a reason that Metagross is widely considered broken and Lopunny isn't.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

Mega Metagross is actually far easier to check than Mega Lopunny. While it has the potential to nail its switch ins with the appropriate coverage move, it is extremely prediction reliant. The consequences of MegaGross predicting wrong is actually very high too considering common threats like Mandibuzz, Slowbro, Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, Celebi etc can easily switch into a resisted move and threaten to cripple it with status. Consider how easy it is to natually fit a few of MegaCross checks in a team, Idk why would you even think that MegaGross clicking the wrong move is low risk unless you are god of coin flips. While Mega Lopunny can't 2HKO the entire metagame, it is still incredibly hard to switch into. What separates it from MegaGross is it can simply spam is STAB moves with little to no risks due to the limited amount of resists and high power of both of its STabs. Even its counters take above 40% as all of them rely on sheer bulk rather than resistance to wall it, forcing them to recover in order to constantly switching into it. With options like Encore, PuP and Sub, it can even force 5050 on its 'counters'. Mega Lopunny is actually far harder to check than Mega Metagross. The main advantage of Mega Metagross over Mega Lopunny is actually its bulk and defensive typing offering it defensive utility.

I think it'd be easier to ask you what you consider S rank Pokemon to be. Because if "Spam moves with little consequence and only have a "few" (albeit common) checks" is your idea of S rank, then Gengar, Keldeo, LandoI and a few others should be S rank as well. Don't get me wrong, it has amazing attributes, but nothing truly "centralizing" like the other S ranked Pokemon.

 

[bludz]

I'm inclined to agree that Lopunny is not a centralizing force like Landorus-T, Metagross or Sableye. I do think it's better than a lot of A+ but honestly I find myself more worried about stuff like Talonflame when I'm teambuilding. I'm on board with it moving down to A+

 

[Roxachronic]

Never liked this thread due to the amount of bandwagon and theorymon. But guess that I'm so bored right now so I'll write something.

Mega-Lopunny: Disagree with this dropping. Tbh the risk of using M-Loppuny is even lower when compared with M-Metagross. Mega Metagross while can theoretically 'beat' the whole metagame with four moveslots, is really reliant on prediction to do so. It needs to nail the Rotom-W with Zen Headbutt and the Ferrothorn with Hammer Arm as well as the Slowbro with Grass Knot or risk being crippled by status. While Mega Lopunny can't 2HKO 90% of the meta like M-Metagross, both Return and High Jump Kick are incredibly spammable STABs that have little resists. It doesn't require prediction to be effective. Being a check to Gengar is cool too consider how hard it is to switch on it. It's support options are repeated 10000 times in the thread already and I'm not gonna talk about it again.

Keldeo: Agree with it being S. It has check and counters but it outlasts all of them sans Celebi.

Clefable: Outlasts all its counters while constantly checking stuffs. Easiest thing to slap on team except for maybe Lando-T. It should be S.

Lando-T: Too much 5050 when using Scarf. SubBU and SubSD are overrated sets that forfeits it's most valuable utility of checking physical attackers if it uses Sub, even though they're pretty effective in right situations. Double Dance is okay but it's checks and counters aren't that easy to remove/wear down so it is really dependent on team support. A+ seems fair.

Magnezone: It has huge effect on the metagame but it is unreliable af. You never know whether the opponent's steels are carrying Shed Shell or not unless you are using Knock Off lures to support a team suppporter lol. Specs Analytic is cool against stall too but nowhere near A material. B+ seems better for it.

Raikou: 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 149-176 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

This is what happened when I tried to use it as a bird check. Not even that strong with specs too. B Rank material.

Conkeldurr: What does it even do except for taking some hits and die. Too weak and easy to wear down to have any permanent effect on the match. Both Stall and Balance naturally fits counters to it while it can usually only exchange one poke when facing offense. Drain Punch rarely gives it enough recovery considering the amount of things resisting it. It doesn't even really enjoy Burns/Toxics too as they wear it down way too quickly. B- Rank.

Lando-T dropping to A+? Too much 50/50? Knock Off and U-Turn almost always puts you on a favorable situation,this mon can break,sweep,bring momentum, check physical mons even when running an offensive set, cripple and set SR.

Magnezone: your argument is saying that because of Shed Shell his ability can be hampered, is like saying that because my opponent may use a Focus Sash Alakazam to stop my sweep M-Altaria and M-CharX should drop, of course this is less probable, but a lot of Skarms or Ferros need to sacrifice durability or damage(Rocky Helmet) to be able to use Shed Shell, which some people think is not worth it.

Raikou:The thing with Raikou is that he is supposed to provide momentum for a team when going offensive, so in reality those calcs are not that impressive, since its goal is too threaten prevent Talonflame,M-Metagross,Latis,Water mons from coming, I mean I could use those calcs against Greninja and say that it should drop ebcause of that, being able to provide a check to birdspam is not his only goal, providing momentum, threatening to 2HOKO the 110 tier mons, Starmie and Tornadus-T ,etc should also be took into account.

Being strong is also indirectly dependant on speed sometimes, a mon who is slow(lets say Reckless Emboar for example,not the best one but just for the sake of it) needs to KO in one hit because he is very easy to 2OHKO because of his speed, but Raikou who oturuns a lot of pretty important pokemons can afford a 2OHKO since he outruns a lot of them(who cannot OHKO in return), and some of the few who outrun him(Torna-T) die to him anyways, he wins on a 1vs1 against a lot of mons, and threatens alot of the incoming checks for him, which helps him grab much easier the momentum for the team.

Of course it has its problems(since he can lose momentum pretty bad is your opponent predicts it, but in reality this arguments works against almost any Scarf or Specs mon).

 

[SWAGCOLFO]

This is my first post so apologies in advance, I just wanted to talk about Mhera.

A- --> A- Imo

The main arguments against this are things such as the fact that it is destroyed by sableye, is slow and generally isn't favoured in a meta where base 110 speed is seen as a benchmark of sorts. It is also completely destroyed by almost all talonflame variants and Maltaria in particular. However it still functions as an amazing threat to stall and can seriously threaten teams which rely on specific leads such as sash breloom (and sash mamo), which is slower if you run jolly with 216 investment, albeit I prefer to run. It also allows you to outspeed adamant Mgyara and slower mew/manaphy and heatran variants.

This combined with its monstrous 185 attack stat actually make it a very competent threat to almost all defensive pokemon aside from gliscor and Defensive lando-t.

A few calcs

252 Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 165-200 (54.2 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, so provided you get some form of initial damage you can deal with sableye, or

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 185-225 (60.8 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 320-380 (122.6 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 1024-1212 (376.4 - 445.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO, best bisharp can do is Iron head (41-48%), and it can't outspeed jolly even if 252

252 Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 250-310 (63.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast/Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 195-230 (49.4 - 58.3%) -- approx. 61.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Pre mega hera also outspeeds metagross so 252 Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 210-255 (69.7 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Albeit Zen headbutt still OHKO's you but You will have heavily crippled a threat)

252 Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 320-380 (83.3 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 450-540 (111.3 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 360-430 (98.6 - 117.8%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 170-210 (44.7 - 55.2%) -- approx. 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I know a lot of these are quite cherrypicked but it shows just how much of the pokemon in the stall playstyle Mhera can 2HKO reasonably consistently

Of course I am not saying Mhera should be A/A+ rank or anything, I just haven't seen anybody argue for It and being a player who has built a team around Mhera (and gotten to 1750+ with it) I feel it would be bad not to offer a different perspective.