Mega Aeradactoyl is an amazing cleaner/revenge killer and has utility in taunt, stealth rock and even Defog. It should definentley not drop that low (or at all). Mega Absol is quite powerful and has decent utility in magic Boune, as well as decent offensive typing. Play rough makes it a big threat to fighting types, which could switch in quite easily before. Finally, serpeior can clean teams easily with contrary leaf storm, while having powerful wall and stalk breaking capability. A- is simply to high for victini as it has bad defensive typing and it's main move hinders it quite servelry. B+ is fine for it. I disagree with breloom rising, simply cause it can be quite easy to deal with if you have a bulky grass type not called ferrothorn. However, I see some decent reasoning for it to move to -A, so I would recomend scraping the rest of the noms and focusing on breloom and mabeye victini( the others are obvious no's, for already mentioned reasons by myself and others. Also, noms with little to no justification are highly discouraged.
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100
- Thread starter trc
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And i also dont see how anything recently really is effecting for Mega sol to drop when it would seem its just getting better and or nicer.
Doesnt have to be outsped by Gren, can smack Sableye witha Play rough or force it out and dance, can hit metagross for nice damage with sucker punch (if you dont want to spam knock off but i dont recall how much damage knock does to meta atm...) and sure its still frail but its certianly in the same boat as mega doom in old megas thriving in the new enviroment that the meta has become. Those two are probably the more fun ones to use ive liked recently and dropping to D is ridiculous when i could suggest a possible raise might be in order if ever so slight.
Course by now this post might be overkill but whatever. Wanted to say it
Doesnt have to be outsped by Gren, can smack Sableye witha Play rough or force it out and dance, can hit metagross for nice damage with sucker punch (if you dont want to spam knock off but i dont recall how much damage knock does to meta atm...) and sure its still frail but its certianly in the same boat as mega doom in old megas thriving in the new enviroment that the meta has become. Those two are probably the more fun ones to use ive liked recently and dropping to D is ridiculous when i could suggest a possible raise might be in order if ever so slight.
Course by now this post might be overkill but whatever. Wanted to say it
Speaking of Serperior, I'm going to nominate it to move up to B/B+.
I've been using it a lot lately and it's just so good. Just bring it in on something you can revenge kill, use Leaf Storm, and start sweeping. The sheer power of STAB Leaf Storm is so high that it can actually dent some quad resists (read: Skarmory). Basically the support it needs is Talonflame and Heatran removed (and if it runs HP Ground, then it doesn't even need that! (but then you give up HP Fire, so...)), plus some other Pokemon that potentially revenge kill it, and then you're open for a sweep. It slaughters basically every stall 'mon (besides the aforementioned Heatran, which I don't know even fits on stall) and doesn't do horribly against Offense and Balance, either, especially with Glare to paralyze stuff.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the only requirement for it to get going is for it to use Leaf Storm, which isn't much of a problem with how powerful it is.
I've been using it a lot lately and it's just so good. Just bring it in on something you can revenge kill, use Leaf Storm, and start sweeping. The sheer power of STAB Leaf Storm is so high that it can actually dent some quad resists (read: Skarmory). Basically the support it needs is Talonflame and Heatran removed (and if it runs HP Ground, then it doesn't even need that! (but then you give up HP Fire, so...)), plus some other Pokemon that potentially revenge kill it, and then you're open for a sweep. It slaughters basically every stall 'mon (besides the aforementioned Heatran, which I don't know even fits on stall) and doesn't do horribly against Offense and Balance, either, especially with Glare to paralyze stuff.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the only requirement for it to get going is for it to use Leaf Storm, which isn't much of a problem with how powerful it is.
Diggersby from A- to B+
The Scarf set is bad because being locked in either Return or Earthquake is horrible. Many things can take advantage of the free turn to set up or take momentum: Mega Sableye, Mega Scizor, Mega Metagross, Gengar, Heatran, Landorus-T, Celebi, Ferrothorn, Mega Latias, Mega Slowbro, Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Gyarados. The SD set is too slow to either set up (Most Mons in A can do at least 60%~70% to 0 HP Diggersby) or to sweep (Quick Attack as priority is either resisted by too many Poke or too weak)
Mega Heracross from A- to B+
If not running SD, still hit really hard but is stopped cold by really common Mons (Landorus-T, Clefable) or defensive threats like Gliscor, Hippowdon. If run SD then face same problem as Diggersby i.e. too slow to set up. Also competition for Mega Slot.
And regarding Mega Absol, I support it going to D rank or C- because:
As regular Absol, this thing has almost zero opportunity to either switch in (can only come in on Psychic attack) or Mega Evolve (foe must be KOed by Sucker Punch or it will most likely die in the process). As Mega Absol, it still cannot come in on any attack (bar Psychic) and doesn't hit hard enough to not die and don't even think about setting up because it will die trying.
The Scarf set is bad because being locked in either Return or Earthquake is horrible. Many things can take advantage of the free turn to set up or take momentum: Mega Sableye, Mega Scizor, Mega Metagross, Gengar, Heatran, Landorus-T, Celebi, Ferrothorn, Mega Latias, Mega Slowbro, Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Gyarados. The SD set is too slow to either set up (Most Mons in A can do at least 60%~70% to 0 HP Diggersby) or to sweep (Quick Attack as priority is either resisted by too many Poke or too weak)
Mega Heracross from A- to B+
If not running SD, still hit really hard but is stopped cold by really common Mons (Landorus-T, Clefable) or defensive threats like Gliscor, Hippowdon. If run SD then face same problem as Diggersby i.e. too slow to set up. Also competition for Mega Slot.
And regarding Mega Absol, I support it going to D rank or C- because:
As regular Absol, this thing has almost zero opportunity to either switch in (can only come in on Psychic attack) or Mega Evolve (foe must be KOed by Sucker Punch or it will most likely die in the process). As Mega Absol, it still cannot come in on any attack (bar Psychic) and doesn't hit hard enough to not die and don't even think about setting up because it will die trying.
Hello friends, today I had a great experience with an unlikely mon. I am here to request granbull to be ranked. Ik I'm a random, but hear me out, granbull counters and checks a lot of mons that are really hard to counter and check. Not only that, it can check and counter a unique set of mons. One of ORAS's biggest threats introduced, mega gallade, is stopped cold by certain granbull sets. While several mons do fair well against mega gallade, few can also handle mons like char x, heracross, and talonflame as well. These attributes make granbull a D or C- rank in my opinion. Here are some calcs to show for granbull:
VS mega gallade: -1 252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 91-108 (23.6 - 28.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 236-282 (85.1 - 101.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Mega heracross: -1 252 Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 110-130 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- approx. 97.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Heracross: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes (mimicking him switching in to rox twice)
Charizard x: -1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 165-195 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
It can't do much back, unless you're running t-wave maybe. However it serves as an excellent pivot if they are trying to break your team before he sweeps, as it forces them to flare blitz.
Crawdaunt: -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 172-203 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I don't think I need to post play rough calc lol.
These are just a few of its shining points. Granbull has lots of team support options as well, roar, heal bell, t wave etc. It checks lots of mons, however for the most part, only one of those mons will be on a team at a time, so you don't have to worry about its survivability too much. Once it has done its job, you can pivot with it until it's time to sack. While it may not be the ideal pokemon, on certain teams its niche set of counters make for a decent teammate in need of answers to the mons mentioned. That's all, thanks for taking the time for reading this (if you did), and help get granbull into his rightful place on the viability rankings!
VS mega gallade: -1 252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 91-108 (23.6 - 28.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 236-282 (85.1 - 101.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Mega heracross: -1 252 Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 110-130 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- approx. 97.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Heracross: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes (mimicking him switching in to rox twice)
Charizard x: -1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 165-195 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
It can't do much back, unless you're running t-wave maybe. However it serves as an excellent pivot if they are trying to break your team before he sweeps, as it forces them to flare blitz.
Crawdaunt: -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 172-203 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I don't think I need to post play rough calc lol.
These are just a few of its shining points. Granbull has lots of team support options as well, roar, heal bell, t wave etc. It checks lots of mons, however for the most part, only one of those mons will be on a team at a time, so you don't have to worry about its survivability too much. Once it has done its job, you can pivot with it until it's time to sack. While it may not be the ideal pokemon, on certain teams its niche set of counters make for a decent teammate in need of answers to the mons mentioned. That's all, thanks for taking the time for reading this (if you did), and help get granbull into his rightful place on the viability rankings!
Granbull was on this list before due to its niche as a physically-defensive fairy who could check mega Hera for stall. I'm not sure about why it dropped, but megas such as mega Gallade and mega lopunny could give it a reason to rise. It's a pretty big niche. Personally, I'm not sure about the rise. But, it's niche is definitely comparable to c- and d rank pokemon.
Why use it over Clefable though?
252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 138-163 (35 - 41.3%) -- 75% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I mean it gets 2HKO'd by CharX and Crawdaunt but so does Granbull if rocks are up and Granbull has no recovery besides Lefties, Clefable also has a way better movepool and potentially Unaware, not really seeing Granbull having much of a niche here sorry.
Problem is it gets eaten alive by the #1 Mega in the metagame and has no reliable recovery. Thus, it is easier to wear down than say, Clefable. Also, at least Clefable gets Fire Blast to punish Mega Metagross if it switches in carelessly.
0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 40-48 (13.2 - 15.9%) -- possible 7HKO
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Granbull: 252-296 (65.7 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Granbull kind of has Donphan syndrome. On the one hand there's Clefable that preforms better as a pure physically defensive fairy wall due to it's abilities and and movepool and on the other you have Azumarill with a better typing, more power, and useable bulk to boot that better checks the mons Granbull has to check. It's just caught between two Pokemon that between them carry out all of the possible niches that Granbull could have in the meta-game right now better than Granbull does in a manner of speaking.
I thought I'd forgotten something, how could I forget clefable? This leaves Granbull pretty outclassed.
I think the pretty big thing Granbull has over Clefable is that even if it isn't able to kill something; it still cripples them with Intimidate. Now, of course, a pretty damn big statement against that is that Landoge is everywhere as an intimidating pivot and then you also have Mega Man and arguably Arcanine and Gyarados. I'm kind of neutral on the ranking of Granbull but the only fairy-type with intimidate does seem a nice niche.
Granbull in post-Aegislash XY was experimented with, as it could check Mega Medicham and Mega Heracross, but what does it even check in ORAS OU that is relevant?
That's true. Maybe Mega Gallade or something but again; not advocating for it or against it, just stating what possible niche it could have.
Alright so while I'm here I'm gonna suggest we drop Mega Latios to like C. There's not a real good reason to ever use this when you have so many more options available in terms of megas. Also having a bit more attack, a sliver of defense boost, and not gaining Life Orb recoil is not a niche that's worthy of B- at all. The argument that you would use this as your mega if you don't have one is pointless when every team is going to have one that's not named Latios. Never have I or anybody I know gone out of our way to use Mega Latios for any sort of trait that it excels in because tbh it doesn't actually excel in anything other than being a mega to Latios. Not even opportunity cost coming into play more so of the fact this is just pointless to use.
The only thing I agree on as far as current discussions from our current topics is Volcarona to B+ cause it's a deadly sweeper that only needs so much support for a B+ ranked mon to begin with. I mean I guess I could go on to what it does but no need for me to make an essay on every little thing that just explains its traits if you've seen this thing in action. Most the current topics right now I don't really agree with in regards to raises or drops. I guess someone can ask my opinion on whatever cause I don't know what else to say lol.
The only thing I agree on as far as current discussions from our current topics is Volcarona to B+ cause it's a deadly sweeper that only needs so much support for a B+ ranked mon to begin with. I mean I guess I could go on to what it does but no need for me to make an essay on every little thing that just explains its traits if you've seen this thing in action. Most the current topics right now I don't really agree with in regards to raises or drops. I guess someone can ask my opinion on whatever cause I don't know what else to say lol.
Then I'll break the ice and bring up Megazard Y again. I see no good reason why it's in A and people have asked here before to know why it dropped. I'm not going to rewrite my wikipedia article rambling again because I made my point before, but it's worth it to know why it's staying at A if it is because I don't really get it tbh.
Just know this my own personal opinion not the one of the ranking team. Charizard-Y should stay A because although it's one of the best wall-breakers if not one of the best mons in A right now, there are two concerns I primarily have. One is rank inflation in regards that you'll have too many A+ mons situated in that position while realistically much of the A+ ranked mons are a bit harder to take into account for, such as Landorus and Thundurus for example. Another is that although Charizard-Y is a great balance breaker it will lose to consistent offensive pressure, which isn't as unrealistic as it sounds considering the nature of its speed tier, SR weakness, and somewhat fragile defensive side. Yes there's not a whole lot that wants to switch into Charizard-Y on any given day of the week, however, Charizard-Y finds itself in these very awkward match-ups against heavy offense that can't be ignored because half if not more of the team is occupying a speed tier of 100 or higher generally. You look at something like Landorus for example that has a way to pressure offense as well through the use of Rock Polish, neutrality to Stealth Rocks, and being electric immune which gives its sweeping capabilities even more efficiency because Prankster T-Wave users will not deter its speed. Charizard-Y theoretically has set up with Tailwind however this is a temporary asset that forces you to lose Roost or coverage, with Roost being important to make up for its SR weakness in the first place. Landorus can just get the ball rolling and has the coverage options and diversity to be one step ahead of Charizard-Y in regards to wall-breaking capabilities. This is my perspective of why it should be at A because it's no better or equal to Landorus in viability.
Edit: If I don't respond to someones question on something's ranking it's cause I'm at work so replies may come a little at a time.
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Gardevoir more or less a similar reason to charizard-y albeit a couple of different aspects that differtienate the two although you can't ignore its spl performance but another case of rank inflation. Landorus I dont have a real stance on at this point if time cause I've been asked for a placement in S and the positives are sort of a given, which aren't exaggerated, yet there hasn't been a single negative feedback for its placement that would associate its flaws, or at least good arguments for it not to rise. I'm still gauging the general ideas people have both here, outside of here, and high level games where it is being used. I'm not too fond of just plopping things in S left and right just by people stating every single pro of the threat in question unless there is an extremely good case for it towards metagame trends. I guess Ill use bluwings post a page back or two as reference point but out of all the things he mentioned as S landorus is the only one on the verge of being at in that position and it's not something you just assume by one post and a couple of "i agree, repeat what that person said" type of deal. That's my take on it for now.
Slowking should rise. Its current rank (C) is underselling it because it's basically a Slowbro (who's A ranked) for the special side while also being able to check or counter a decent deal of physical attackers (like Mega Metagross, even if it has Grass Knot) that Slowbro does by virtue of its typing. Unlike Slowbro who frequently has his Scalds absorbed by a special attacker who doesn't care much about the burn (like the Lati's), King counters the special attackers and then puts the opponent in a bit of an awkward position because their physical attackers can't just come in free of charge. It's a great answer to Lati's since unlike some other bulky psychics (Mew, Celebi, etc) which can tank a Draco and recover off the damage, Slowking doesn't need to burn momentum to heal itself thanks to Regen and can instead put the generated free turn to immediate use by firing off a Scald, a status move like T-Wave/Toxic or go for one of many coverage moves to nail a switch-in. Countering Metagross, Keldeo, Lati's, Kingdra and a plethora of other mons in the tier while being pretty damn annoying to switch into has to be worth more than C and it's definitely better than many currently higher ranked mons. Slowking for B.
Replay of Slowing on a RegenSpam.team vs Rain: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-208242213Corsola for D
Replay of Slowing on a RegenSpam.team vs Rain: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-208242213
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the OU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.
Mega Latios is not that. Is it usually a waste of a slot on teams? Yes, it is, but it's not limited enough or in need of enough support to warrant being pushed that low and ultimately you can make it work on a team if you're desperate enough, much like Mega T-Tar, but there's really little reason to do so. That reason alone, however, does not detract from any niche it may have which is more prominent than that of the other D rankers, as such it can squat down there with the other forgotten Megas of OU at around C - B-.
Mega Latios is not that. Is it usually a waste of a slot on teams? Yes, it is, but it's not limited enough or in need of enough support to warrant being pushed that low and ultimately you can make it work on a team if you're desperate enough, much like Mega T-Tar, but there's really little reason to do so. That reason alone, however, does not detract from any niche it may have which is more prominent than that of the other D rankers, as such it can squat down there with the other forgotten Megas of OU at around C - B-.
But it is severely outclassed by Latios due to the simple fact of opportunity cost; it can't even be slapped on every non-mega team with Latios because said team might want to utilize Scarf Latios. It exerts a poor presence on the metagame because there's barely any situation you'd want to use it at all.
In addition, it's not a Pokémon you make work like Mega T-tar. Mega T-tar at least has the distinct advantage of being able to run a Dragon Dance set better than T-tar due to the slight increase of speed (admittedly I think it should perhaps move to C+ but not entirely sure). Mega Latios has nothing. It's not something you make work on a team; it's something you slap on if you happen to come across the incredibly rare opportunity that you have a team with a non-scarf Latios and no mega. Honestly, I'd say it's insulting to put it on the same rank as things like Infernape and Mega Blastoise because there's no reason to use it other than luxury.
Actually, that sounds exactly like Mega Latios, pretty much pulling off the mixed D-Dance sweeper with its offensive buffs and workable mixed coverage that regular Latios cannot pull. It's not a set that requires a shit-load of support, it's not a set with many gaping holes, one could, if they desired, build a good team with this concept, but no one wants to because pretty much any other Latios set is often preferred on a team, that doesn't stop Mega Latios from having a potentially desirable and workable role. Regular Latios is better, never disputing that, but not A+ against D better.
If you're basing this off of a Dragon Dance Mega Latios you're doing something very, very wrong. Mega Latios is outclassed by every viable Mega Dragon Dancer as it holds no good qualities other than a slightly better speed tier; there is absolutely no reason you shouldn't be using Charizard or Altaria over it.
Dragon Dance Mega Latios was something brainstormed to try and give Mega Latios some merit when it was found, but it eventually turned out that it's just outclassed at this. Mega Latias at least can pull off Calm Mind well because it has enough unique traits to make it work; but Mega Latios' Dragon Dance set is one hundred percent unviable and completely outclassed. Don't use it.
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