Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V4

[Thatwackycruton]

I don't think kyub really deserves A+ rank, idk how to lay this out so ill just do pros, cons and a summary
Pros

• capable of running many sets like sub, av, scarf, and life orb
• extremely good against balance
• one of the few electric checks offence can run
• capable of luring its checks ie hp fire and iron head
• good bulk and reliable recovery

Cons

• So much of the meta gets a super effective hit on it with stabs or common coverage just from s and a+ you have charizard x, clefable, altaria, alakazam, azumarill, bisharp, diancie, excadrill, ferrothorn, garchomp, heatran, hoopa, keldeo, landorus, lopuny, latios, metagross, scizor, thundurus, tornadus and weavile. This means that kybes cant make good use of his bulk.
• bad matchup against offence if not scarf
• stealth rock weakness
• doesn't block volt switch, this is big especially if the opponent has rocks up as stuff like manectric can click volt switch on the switch in and kyub losing 40% from from volt switch plus rocks and the opponent gaining momentum
• 4mms ice beam and fusion bolt are basically mandatory.The other two slots are a toss up between hp fire, earth power, iron head and roost. This is made worse if you rely on kyub to check electrics because that makes roost near madatory.
• Items, if you run life orb kyub is whittled down so quickly, but if you run any other item you aren't quite powerful enough to break through defensive cores.

Kyub is a good mon but has too many flaws to be A+

Agree that torn is too inconsistant to be S

You make some good points here, but I'd have to strongly disagree with the notion of 4MSS syndrome. It has what it needs. HP fire/iron head is an added bonus to already pretty killer coverage. Furthermore, Nearly half of what you listed is one of the following:

-Usually not running enough speed to outpace it and are OHKOed (see exca, garchomp)
-Is not faster prior to mega evolving and can be smashed for huge damage (Diance, Metagross)
-Is just plain slower and is raped by a coverage move (heatran, Bisharp)
-Can't actually OHKO it (Weavile, AV torn)

Also, it's kinda a given that most wallbreakers aren't gonna be superstars against offense. Manaphy, Hoopa-U, Mgarde and Megazard Y all struggle somewhat against offense. It's just the way it is. Also, it doesn't struggle nearly as much against some offensive builds as Hoopa-U does. It almost always delivers, too, all of its attacking being 100% accurate and solid bulk making it one of the bulkiest, beefiest hitters available to offense presently.

 

[Groovy groudon]

You make some good points here, but I'd have to strongly disagree with the notion of 4MSS syndrome. It has what it needs. HP fire/iron head is an added bonus to already pretty killer coverage. Furthermore, Nearly half of what you listed is one of the following:

-Usually not running enough speed to outpace it and are OHKOed (see exca, garchomp)
-Is not faster prior to mega evolving and can be smashed for huge damage (Diance, Metagross)
-Is just plain slower and is raped by a coverage move (heatran, Bisharp)
-Can't actually OHKO it (Weavile, AV torn)

Also, it's kinda a given that most wallbreakers aren't gonna be superstars against offense. Manaphy, Hoopa-U, Mgarde and Megazard Y all struggle somewhat against offense. It's just the way it is. Also, it doesn't struggle nearly as much against some offensive builds as Hoopa-U does. It almost always delivers, too, all of its attacking being 100% accurate and solid bulk making it one of the bulkiest, beefiest hitters available to offense presently.

When i say 4mss syndrome what i basically meant to be a half decent check to electrics you need roost which means there is a pretty big opportunity cost to running lures.

You are right about how the alot of the mons that hit it super effectively dont actually beat it, but tbh i was just tired of people talking about its defensive abilities ie. here

The defensive abilities mentioned in the above post cannot be understated- Its a solid check to electric types like mega manectric, which as we know is an absolute pain to deal with for offense and hyper offense.

when all it can really do is be an iffy check to manaphy and electrics.

with the bad match up against offence, yes it is a given but the meta is trending towards offence atm which i forgot to mention

about the comparison to hoopa, the reason to use kyub over hoopa is the ability to 1v1 physical attackers like weavile, and a slightly higher speed tier. Hoopa does just as well if not better against special attackers and demolishes stall instead of being walled by chansey. very similar mons kyub has a niche but hoopa is better overall, thus the subrank difference

 

[Mr.Goxel]

I have to agree with Groovy groudon on the a ranks being bloated. If this is truly viability its hard to compare the 20 pokemon in the a+ rank. Now obviously some pokemon are significantly better then others in the a+ tier especially. Now i was wondering if we could take the uu route and rank pokemon by viability rather than alphabetically within their tiers or add an s- rank?

 

[bludz]

That was brought up to me and it would honestly be a nightmare to do that. There would be tons of arguments regarding mons' placement within their respective ranks when tons of it is subjective anyway like whether Heatran or Ferrothorn is a bigger threat.

The reason pokemon occupy the same sub-rank is because their viability is roughly equal. Rank bloating doesn't mean we need to suddenly drop a bunch of things to A and push stuff up to S; it's simply the nature of the metagame that these pokemon are all (relatively) equally viable and the premier threats in the tier.

PS: if you think some pokemon are significantly better than others in the A+ rank you are free to nominate something to drop to A or move up to S, since that's the logical next step for a pokemon that does not belong in A+

 

[Reymedy]

There is absolutly no way Kyub is even close to A+.
This Pokemon gets a 1 for 1 at best on average, it's really not that great. The weakness to SR is terribly awful for a Pokemon like that, relying on Life Orb to support its coverage. The cold fact is, you'll be forced out a lot and these 25% will make your life a misery, because Kyub is slower than base 100, and because its typing is crap. Steel coverage got common in gen 6, Fairy appeared, Fighting is still everywhere, faster Dragons like Lati@s etc.
Kyub bullying balances is a myth, period. They have way bigger threats to worry about, hence the way the average speed on a balance significantly increased. If your whole team is slow, a Manaphy, a PinsirM, a MedichamM, a GardevoirM... etc will slaughter you, Kyub is the last of your worries. What will happen most of the time is that you'll end up covering it without even trying. Just think of how common Ttar Scarf is in these teams, you got SR up, you switch Ttar into Kyub, now the Kyub lost half of its health, and doesn't even know if it's gonna switch out alive.

Anyway, it should be A-, I don't get how it can be considered more viable as something like RotomW for instance.
I kind of agree that A tiers are too full of everything, there is a big gap between the A and B tier, probably because some Pokemons should have been tossed into lower tiers already. The fact that Amoonguss is B next to Omastar is quite the joke too, when Celebi is A- next to Starmie or Mew.
I'll think about how I see the S=>B tiers myself maybe.

 

[WhiteQueen]

Kyurem-B is fine where it is at A. Almost absolutely nothing can switch into it safely, and it can usually net a kill or severely damage something depending on which of its moves is chosen. Being able to check Manaphy and Manetric Mega reliably too is a bonus. It's also one of the few (I can't think of another) Pokemon that can dismantle Mega Venusaur, Rotom-W, Heatran, and Skarmory all at the same time with its standard specially offensive set.

It has Roost to recover from Stealth Rock and a 95 base Speed really isn't that shabby.

 

[ABR]

Nominating Bisharp to drop to A:

In practice, Bisharp is quite easy to switch into and check, for just about every archtype. There's garchomp, keldeo, hippo, gliscor, quag, Breloom and more for guaranteed switchins. As for checks, there's lop, weavile, scarftar, wisp tran, talon, diancie, and more. I know viability is not all about the number of checks/counters, but Bisharp has plenty viable/common ones.

In addition to this, Bisharp is quite useless in terms of switching into other pokemon. At most it can come into a lati draco one time per game, and it can't even come in vs other psychics like garde and zam. It can't even set up reliably vs anything besides latios, unless it has lum berry, in which case it cant kill anything like a 75% lop at +2. As seen in the vast amount of checks, a sweep is pretty easy to stop.

I really feel it is just way less useful on average than other A+ mons like Lopunny. Every playstyle is naturally well equipped to take it on.

Also: 100% kyub should not be A+ for the reasons stated by the users above me.

 

[p2]

lol bisharp is like the most threatening mon ever are you kidding me

bisharp is literally one of the best wincons in the entire tier, it's just heavily reliant on mindgames to be used effectively. it has checks, but did you take into account how easy they are to completely and totally overwhelm? it's even got sets that beat hippowdon too because it can live an eq at full then 2hko with +2 ih then knock. the amount of support it needs isn't exactly that much either, because the support it offers back to the spikers (best support) is just too good. it completely deters defog because +2 bisharp can fuck over so many builds its unreal and giving it that +2 can make the difference between your lopunny or keldeo being a reliable revenge killer to it.

also i don't exactly see why not being able to switch into zam / gengar is a problem because unless you lack a good non attacking move, you're fucked if it gets in and even then, nothing stops it from knocking as you wisp/sub/taunt or whatever.

bisharp is easily one of the biggest threats in the meta right now and i've seen saying this for months. it's heavily reliant on mindgames, but that shouldn't deny its well deserved a+ ranking.

 

[Celticpride]

So I don't think the current slate is productive in terms of realistic rank changes, except for a Thundy-T drop and maybe a Cobalion rise. Onto some (minor) inconsistencies I see in the rankings:

--> A

Altaria: This has been brought up recently in this thread and in general around the site, but Alt isn't that good anymore. Offensive sets are underwhelming from a bulk perspective, and any EVs taken from attack and speed really cut short either DD or Special attacker sets. It has kind of an underwelming base stat spread that prevents it from reaching a nice compromise between bulk, speed, and power. Defensive sets are nice, especially DDD, but they are often held back from damaging all but the slowest of teams due to an underwelming speed stat until it can get multiple boosts under its belt. Additionally, while Alt has a nice defensive typing, breakers that need to beat Clef or fat Dragons can often beat Alt without resorting to odd / niche coverage moves, furthering the issues defensive sets have in setting up. Similar to Mega Gyara dropping, the current meta just isn't favorable to it and it deserves a drop. The newly popular Scarf Jirachi set might be the final nail in Altaria's coffin as that's a very splashable offensive check to it.

Diancie: Probably seems odd to some but Diancie seems out of place in A+. Don't really know exactly how to describe it, but Diancie doesn't seem to merit the same level of threat control and prep that other A+ threats, such as Mega Scizor, Bisharp, and Thundurus, necessitate. It also seems incredibly prediction reliant when breaking cores, as when it doesn't predict correctly, it doesn't have enough raw power to make up for that unlike some similarly ranked threats. Coverage is great in terms of neutral coverage, but it falls short in terms of SE coverage and that doesn't help matters much either. There's a lot of ways offense can deal with it, from SE priority (Azu and Scizor), to weather (Sand in particular), or generally outspeeding it. Balance and stall aren't particularly threatened by it either as they can generally outbulk it. It seems underwelming in most situations and a drop to A would reflect this.

--> A+

Medicham: So a few weeks ago when I made a post about Pinsir moving up, Alba mentioned that its power level isn't equal to that of Medicham and that Pinsir should be lower as a result. Maybe Medicham should move up? In terms of just clicking STABs Medi is second to none in the tier. Sure Sableye and fat Psychics are both pains, but those are fairly easy threats to compensate for. Mega Zam also struggles with Sableye when not using Gleam, and it's sitting in A+ right now. You have to prepare for Sableye regardless. While Medicham does get blocked hard by it, there's a fair amount of other Pokemon who have issues with Sableye, just less glaring or obvious. As far as fat Psychics, there's a ton of options for that group of threats, see Gengar Bisharp and Weavile for starters. Dual priority is cool for revenging and Fake Out by itself brings a lot of offensive utility in terms easing prediction. I think Medicham deserves A+ in terms of effectiveness and raw damage output, and how it nukes offensive resists in addition to blowing up defensive cores.

Manectric: This has been a long time coming but Mane is pretty dominant right now. It's benefited hugely from the decline in Hippo and the increase in Chomp and Lando. Unlike Hippo, Chomp and Lando get faced with a ton of HP Ice / Volt Switch 5050s that are almost always more favorable for the Manectric user. It also offers a ton of compression for offensive teams, as it can check or revenge a lot of threats in one slot. It's not quite on par with Lopunny in terms of destroying offense but it's not too far behind either tbh in terms of speed tier and coverage. Most checks that aren't Grounds get worn down fairly easily when Mane can just click Volt Switch mid to early game, and pick up small amounts of chip damage here and there until the check breaks or it gets Pursuit trapped, such as Lati@s. A move to A+ would properly reflect just how good Mane is right now.

Hide

So a lot of this goes back to the rankings of Megas not being accurately reflected in my view. While it's not a great argument when people say "opportunity cost" the Megas are all fighting for the same slot and thus I feel they should stack up somewhat correctly in a macro sense. Quick list:

S Rank
Char-X
Sableye
A+ Rank
Alakazam
Lopunny
Manectric
Medicham
Metagross
Scizor
A Rank
Altaria
Char-Y
Diancie
Gard
MGyarados
Pinsir
Venu
A- Rank
Aerodactyl
Slowbro

Again a quick list of how it think the VR should look, and it's in hide tags because it's not super super relevant. Only changes from the real list are my noms.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

Definitely agree with the above post. I've been using Mega Manectric extensively and have found it to be quite potent, albeit somewhat lacking in power. Mega Medicham is, in my opinion, so nut-crushingly powerful that a move to A+ is definitely warranted if not needed, and even the stuff that That supposedly counters it can struggle switching in of repeated High Jump Kicks. While I"m not necessarily a full supporter of an Malt drop, I understand where supporters of the drop are coming from in their reasoning. The general consensus is Mega Altaria dropping anyway, so it's probably pointless to fight it. I agree with the mega Diance drop. I've used the Rock Polish set extensively and while it can ravage some offensive builds, I actually have an odd issue with Mega diance- Its bulk. 50/110/100 looks a lot better or paper than it actually is in practice. Even from Neutral or resisted priority moves, it still sometimes takes upwards of 40%. And, Of course, extremely exploitable defensive typing isn't exactly a bonus. I feel pretty strongly abouth a Mega Diance drop.

 

[MikeDawg]

Yo does anyone have thoughts on a mega-gross drop? Sure, it's still as theorymon-scary as it was in early oras, but like alt, it consistently fails to perform (in my experience) as the metagame progress. Manectric is everywhere, charx is everywhere, rotom is everywhere, excadrill is everywhere, slowbro is everywhere. There are plenty of super common counters/checks (scizor, ferro, manectric, slowbro, garchomp, etc.... sure you could provide a bunch of calcs of hammer arm beating ferro or grass knot beating slowbro, but we all should know that this isn't quite the perfect case in practice). The turn that it spends megavolving is a swampert-esque struggle that really reduces its ability to act early game, because a good amount of offensive threats can take off a huge chunk from its deceptively low bulk (when uninvested). When facing a defensive team, it struggles to land that ideal 2hko on slowbro with grass knot when that requires using gknot on the switchin or tanking a scald. Not to mention that regenerator makes that prediction futile. Against ferro it will be taking a leech seed or twave, chansey will twave, etc. It struggles to legitimately come out on top 1v1 against some of the most common defensive threats, while offensive teams give it little room to megavolve and are frequently pushing past the 110 speed benchmark. The scarfrachi popularity is a bit of a boon, but not a huge one imo. The opportunity cost blah-blah argument applies as well. Medicham is better against slow teams, lopunny/manec are better against fast teams, and there are a host of megas that offer better defensive utility in-between. Idt that one subrank drop is a huge deal all things considered.

Also, maybe a chansey rise? This has more to do with your views on ranking theory than it does on the qualities of chansey. ie. does the fact that it is a staple utility blob Mon on 90% of defensive/lots of balanced amd even bulky offense teams make up for the fact that it is passive, <insert bad chansey quality>, etc.? At least in terms of the viability rankings? Obviously it doesn't fit too sell on a hyper offense team, but it is arguably the most viable Mon on slower builds. The fact that people are sort of expanding on its team-specifc utility (different combos of twve, rocks, wish, heal bell, toxic) is something to consider also. I don't feel particularly strongly on this one, but chansey is somewhat of an oddball given its crazy viability on the teams that it is on.

 

[ArcanePhoenix]

dysbber162 You could literally place anything with a move that deals a good chunk to Ferro (read 50% of all offensive mons lol) in Mega Alts spot in that replay and the result would have been the same, really. The replay just prooves how weak it truly is rn. The replay however shows why Tornadus is A+ and not S when Hurri misses and Tornadus goes down, resulting in death when a kill would have been possible.

 

[bludz]

Kinda feel like when Sableye wasn't banned the Medicham hype died down. Been some discussion of dropping it back to A- if anything although I think it's fine where it is right now. A+ is really pushing it when you consider putting it into the same rank as Lopunny. Yeah they do different things... SORT OF. Both spam strong Fake Out and try to smash shit while Medicham is better at getting OHKOs and threatening fat builds Lopunny is far more threatening to offense which lo and behold is a better playstyle. Also if we're considering dropping fairies sorta goes to show that Bullet Punch isn't the most amazing second priority. Breaking Hippo and bulky MSciz aren't really accomplishments any more as neither is that great (use offensive MSciz thing is so much better imo). In short Medicham's priority doesn't really make up for its meh speed tier which leaves tons of threats on offense still being a problem for it, especially since Fake Out is only usable on its first switch-in so it's easily forced out afterwards.

Kinda torn on Diancie, been a big proponent of it staying in A+ for a while now since I think it's been sorta underrated and also as I said I really don't like bulky MSciz much. Don't feel like it's walled all that easily and great dual STABs but its true it's not hitting a ton of stuff super effective and it is threatened by a ton of things.

 

[Tressed]

My main beef with Medicham to A+ is that it is very matchup dependent in that while it doesn't have a lot of dedicated counters, the ones that it does have are so hard that Medicham tends to struggle to get anywhere against them. Sableye was the example brought up, and obviously Medicham fails to do much of anything against that, but things like Slowbro and Landorus-T (to an extent) make it hard for Medicham to get anywhere with those teams, to the point where it almost feels like dead weight against a team with that mon. The fact that Medicham really wants Fake Out + Bullet Punch these days doesn't help, since as running Ice Punch and Thunderpunch make it more or less useless in fast HO matchups. That's really my issue with Cham, you can build it to be ridiculously good against stall and balance, or you can run it for priority spam against offensive teams, but it can't do both and going one way leaves it weaker to common mons on the other side. Having that choice would be fine and all, but if you're picking a wallbreaker you want something that's threatening to stall and balanced builds, and Priority MCham just isn't threatening to most stall builds. On the other hand, if you were looking to break offense you could have picked Lopunny.

Mega Manectric should have been brought up like forever ago. Just having Hippowdon go down in usage is a massive plus, and less ABR stall = less Quagsire so that's another thing that Mane's got going for it. Not going in depth since I don't really think anyone's gonna disagree with how effective Manectric is right now.

 

[Arik]

Rotom-W to A

I agree with Rotom-W to A rise. This thing checks so many things in the meta and proves to be one of the bets pivots in the game. Excellent against Sand and decent against Rain teams too. Provides crucial momentum and makes a great Volt-turn core with Lando/Torna. Although bulk isn't great it can stop a lot of set up sweepers like Scizor , Exca , Talon and will always be a godsend for Offensive and Balanced teams. This thing can also have the surprise T-wave to stop shit like Zard-X setting up on it's face. I don't see it as equals with the other mons in A- such as Celebi and Jirachi and is on par with mons in A.

 

[Reymedy]

My main beef with Medicham to A+ is that it is very matchup dependent in that while it doesn't have a lot of dedicated counters, the ones that it does have are so hard that Medicham tends to struggle to get anywhere against them. Sableye was the example brought up, and obviously Medicham fails to do much of anything against that, but things like Slowbro and Landorus-T (to an extent) make it hard for Medicham to get anywhere with those teams, to the point where it almost feels like dead weight against a team with that mon. The fact that Medicham really wants Fake Out + Bullet Punch these days doesn't help, since as running Ice Punch and Thunderpunch make it more or less useless in fast HO matchups. That's really my issue with Cham, you can build it to be ridiculously good against stall and balance, or you can run it for priority spam against offensive teams, but it can't do both and going one way leaves it weaker to common mons on the other side. Having that choice would be fine and all, but if you're picking a wallbreaker you want something that's threatening to stall and balanced builds, and Priority MCham just isn't threatening to most stall builds. On the other hand, if you were looking to break offense you could have picked Lopunny.

Mega Manectric should have been brought up like forever ago. Just having Hippowdon go down in usage is a massive plus, and less ABR stall = less Quagsire so that's another thing that Mane's got going for it. Not going in depth since I don't really think anyone's gonna disagree with how effective Manectric is right now.

Well I do.
I'm always like "what the fuck" when I read stuff here sometimes. I see facts like "Manectric is dominant right now" being thrown all over the place and I'm thinking "in what world exactly".
Where is all that coming from, your personal experience of tournaments ? Your personal experience of laddering ? You waking up this morning thinking "damn it's dominant all of a sudden" ??
Because I strongly doubt it's dominant at all lmao, unless we have a different definition of what exercising dominance means ?
So I checked the latest stats and yea, unless its usage massively skyrockets (which won't happen) it's simply not dominant, sorry.

 

[WhiteQueen]

Mega Metagross has always been extremely overrated. I've been saying that since its release when some people were constantly crying about how powerfully broken it was supposed to be. There are way too many Pokemon in OU that wall it cold or check it. The only thing it does reliably well is trap Latios and Latias, but Tyranitar does the same thing without wasting a mega slot, while Tyranitar can also support its team by getting sand up. I agree with the drop to A.

 

[Tressed]

Well I do.
I'm always like "what the fuck" when I read stuff here sometimes. I see facts like "Manectric is dominant right now" being thrown all over the place and I'm thinking "in what world exactly".
Where is all that coming from, your personal experience of tournaments ? Your personal experience of laddering ? You waking up this morning thinking "damn it's dominant all of a sudden" ??
Because I strongly doubt it's dominant at all lmao, unless we have a different definition of what exercising dominance means ?
So I checked the latest stats and yea, unless its usage massively skyrockets (which won't happen) it's simply not dominant, sorry.

I'm sorry, do you have an argument as to why it shouldn't move up or are you here to complain about grammar? If you wanted to talk about Celticpride's use of the word dominant and how that relates to usage and viability, bring that up with him. If you want to bring up your own experiences and opinions, great, I know you're a tour player so you probably do know more about Manectric's usage in tours and how effective that is and I'd love to learn. Why would you waste your time calling me out if all you're going to say is "lol ladder" and "it doesn't get used much". Give me an actual reason as to why Manectric doesn't deserve A+ so the rest of us can understand what's going through your head.

 

[Heatmor]

Mega Metagross has always been extremely overrated. I've been saying that since its release when some people were constantly crying about how powerfully broken it was supposed to be. There are way too many Pokemon in OU that wall it cold or check it. The only thing it does reliably well is trap Latios and Latias, but Tyranitar does the same thing without wasting a mega slot, while Tyranitar can also support its team by getting sand up. I agree with the drop to A.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but most of the critical acclaim Mega Metagross receives is admittedly well-earned. Mega Metagross has almost no true counters in Overused, as it can hit most Pokemon for super-effective damage. It's Attack, combined with Tough Claws, turns it into a deadly attacker capable of tearing apart many Pokemon without breaking a sweat. It has good typing, good bulk, and none of its stats are bad. I believe that it should stay A+, because of its raw power, versatility, bulk, typing and movepool.

 

[WhiteQueen]

I don't remember the last time I played a team that didn't have a Slowbro, Skarmory, Mega Scizor, Hippowdon, Mega Sableye, Tank Chomp, Landorus-T, or Manaphy, etc. All of those Pokemon can usually switch into Metagross safely, minus any quirky surprise moves. Metagross is strong; its power is just a bit overrated. Charizard-Y, Serperior, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Medicham, Kyurem-B, and a few other Pokemon in A are much harder to switch into then Mega Metagross. I don't see why it should be ranked higher than those Pokemon.

 

[blank]

thots:

i absolutely 100% disagree with a diancie drop. i guess you can argue it by pointing out how it doesn't like offensive waters, mega scizor, and defensive ground types, but these things have all been present in the metagame for quite a bit; they didn't just start getting popular out of nowhere. my point is: there hasn't been too much of a shift in the meta against diancie.

thanks to things like mega sableye and fairies running rampant, we've seen a general rise in usage of the few bulkier fire types. specifically, there's been a rise in bulkier talonflame sets for quite awhile now (not talon itself: it's been popular since x/y). again, this isn't something new either, but it isn't something going away... especially with mega sableye remaining. mega diancie is very capable of handling virtually every talon set with the exception of CB with steel wing, but you don't see CB much nowadays anyways. talonflames carrying wisp can basically neuter some of the things that'd typically check it, causing a few people to just run toxic > stone edge on their chomps and lando-ts. diancie doesn't have to worry about that thanks to magic bounce... something we all already know. on the topic of magic bounce, it also makes mega diancie one of the best mega sableye checks; in a matchup like azumarill v. mega sableye, you can't just switch azumarill in due to the (rather high) chance that the opposing sableye will fire off a wisp, thus screwing over your azumarill for the remainder of the game. like with talon, diancie doesn't need to worry about that.

oh also,

Diancie: Probably seems odd to some but Diancie seems out of place in A+. Don't really know exactly how to describe it, but Diancie doesn't seem to merit the same level of threat control and prep that other A+ threats, such as Mega Scizor, Bisharp, and Thundurus, necessitate. It also seems incredibly prediction reliant when breaking cores, as when it doesn't predict correctly, it doesn't have enough raw power to make up for that unlike some similarly ranked threats. Coverage is great in terms of neutral coverage, but it falls short in terms of SE coverage and that doesn't help matters much either. There's a lot of ways offense can deal with it, from SE priority (Azu and Scizor), to weather (Sand in particular), or generally outspeeding it. Balance and stall aren't particularly threatened by it either as they can generally outbulk it. It seems underwelming in most situations and a drop to A would reflect this.

having base 160 atk and spatk, base 110 speed, solid moves like diamond storm and moonblast make mega diancie a prime example of "raw" power; switching into this thing is a pain, especially for offensive builds.

when i first saw this one, i started giving bludz a hard time because i've kinda grown used to people saying "altaria is a huge threat" since the earlier ORAS days. however, mega altaria really isn't all it's made out to be. on paper, it does a good job checking things like zard-x, keldeo, speedy electrics, etc., it can be a solid offensive threat thanks to dragon dance, and it can provide support for more offensive builds with heal bell. however, maximizing its utility for offensive teams means you miss out on its offensive capabilities. if you want to properly check all the stuff i listed above and then some (running roost to help) while also running heal bell, you're stuck with either the specially offensive support set or a more defensive dragon dance set: both of which fall flat in the coverage department. you have to set up quite a bit to outspeed and actually do damage to anything with a more defensive dragon dance set, and the specially offensive support set is pretty underwhelming offensively (in spatk and speed).

like i said before, on paper mega altaria checks a lot, but in reality: it has one of the worst pre-megas in the tier. it can't really reliably switch into any of the stuff you want to check with it, it's pretty frail, and it's weak to rocks. you can argue that both charizards and diancie are shit pre-mega, for example, but all of these provide so much more after mega evolving, making the required team support (talking about zards here not diancie), much more worth it.

i talked to Celticpride about this on ~5 minutes ago, and i had a discussion about this with someone i forget awhile back, but mega manectric isn't good because it's a "dominant threat", avoiding the whole grammar / language aspect of this that Reymedy already covered (which btw, is important... terminology like this means a lot lol), mega manectric isn't a good pokemon because it's super powerful and threatening or whatever. it's good because of the utility / support (for lack of a better word here) it can provide for offensive builds. i won't get into what it does for other playstyles & archetypes because i don't have much experience with mega manec there, but anyways, on offense, it fills this all in 1 slot of being able to handle thundurus, tornadus, birds (talon), etc., it puts offensive pressure on fat things that aren't ground types (specifically bulky waters) with volt switch, and it provides a secondary check to mega scizor, weavile, and speedy electrics (scizor due to intimidate + fire, weavile due to intimidate + speed, speedy electrics due to just resisting them lol).

however, neither that stuff nor any major changes in the meta really call for a manectric rise. electric types in general are threatening, but things like cm / specs raikou & thundurus are more threatening than manec. also, in my experience, i'm seeing more people actually pack electric checks on their teams; this rise might've made sense a little while ago, but it doesn't now imo :x

edit: fixed demon sprites

 

[Reymedy]

I'm sorry, do you have an argument as to why it shouldn't move up or are you here to complain about grammar? If you wanted to talk about Celticpride's use of the word dominant and how that relates to usage and viability, bring that up with him. If you want to bring up your own experiences and opinions, great, I know you're a tour player so you probably do know more about Manectric's usage in tours and how effective that is and I'd love to learn. Why would you waste your time calling me out if all you're going to say is "lol ladder" and "it doesn't get used much". Give me an actual reason as to why Manectric doesn't deserve A+ so the rest of us can understand what's going through your head.

Hey, dont switch the roles, you're trying to explain why it should move up. I dont have to give you reasons as to why it should not move up. It's a flawed logic that you're applying here I'm afraid. If I prove that the reasons you gave (or didn't give in your case) are nothing but empty words, then it'd mean that there are no reasons for ManectricM to move up... thus it should stay where it is.
Besides, I don't mind the role of the cocky tour player but, you have eyes afaik, and tournaments games arent being played behind closed doors. Heck, there are statistic threads everywhere and you're totally allowed to read them and see for yourself. So don't victimize yourself. Finally, I wasn't calling you out personally, I just quoted your post because someone happened to post about RotomW before I do, so I wanted to show (by quoting the last post), on which topic I was posting.

 

[Heatmor]

I don't remember the last time I played a team that didn't have a Slowbro, Skarmory, Mega Scizor, Hippowdon, Mega Sableye, Tank Chomp, Landorus-T, or Manaphy, etc. All of those Pokemon can usually switch into Metagross safely, minus any quirky surprise moves. Metagross is strong; its power is just a bit overrated. Charizard-Y, Serperior, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Medicham, Kyurem-B, and a few other Pokemon in A are much harder to switch into then Mega Metagross. I don't see why it should be ranked higher than those Pokemon.

Yeah, it should be A, although I would have to disagree with you to some extent. Landorus-Therian, Defensive Garchomp, Mega Sableye cannot really switch into Mega Metagross safely, as Ice Punch (which is one of the more common options on Mega Meta) can decimate two out of three of them. They may survive an Ice Punch, but they will proceed to die to another Ice Punch.
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 244-288 (63.8 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 376-444 (89.5 - 105.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 127-151 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Mega Metagross 2HKOs these Pokemon, and then will OHKO them on the next turn.
Mega Metagross is pretty hard hitting, but otherwise I would agree with your point about A. My opinion rests on A, as it is a wall-smashing powerful sweeper if played correctly.

 

[Heatmor]

Another thing I would nominate is Jellicent from D Rank to C- Rank. I have always thought that the poor thing was harshly rated, even though it was severely outclassed as a bulky water, by the likes of Rotom-Wash, Quagsire, Alomomola, Vaporeon, Slowbro, and others.
I personally see it a mix of the four. It has utility, crippling capability, bulk, good typing, and recovery, allowing it to function pretty well as a utility wall. Jelllicent has excellent utility options in Taunt, Will'O'Wisp, Icy Wind, Scald, has reliable recovery in moves such as Recovery and Pain Split, and it even has a shot at running an offensive set; it has moves such as Dark Pulse, Hydro Pump, Energy Ball, Dazzling Gleam, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Psychic, Sludge Bomb, and others.
Sure, it is outclassed, it isn't very good, but it is underrated in my opinion which is why it deserves C- Rank.

 

[nameless90]

Rise Mega Manectric up to A+: disagree
While the combination of Intimidate+Volt Switch is really good/effective, this monster is rather monodimensional on its set but there are many checks to it even though it forces many 50-50 situations with Volt Switch and Hidden Power Ice if the opponent has a ground or an electric type. Also, it is not a wallbreaker but it has a middling power (135 base SpA is underwhelming considering the side effects of Overheat, its main coverage move) and moves with middling power which forces it out more often than necessary*.
* This leads me to talk about Rotom-H, another Overheat user.

Mega Metagross down to A: disagree
While it seems banworthy on paper due to the combination of sheer force (Though Claws is a sort of a recoiless Life Orb for many attacks) and high numerical bulk but also common weaknesses and resistances, Metagross has in actual fact troubles in being a defining threat thanks to the loss of Clear Body which prevents Intimidate from being effective and its non mega counterpart is already an effective AV users which doesn't waste the mega slot so it receives competition even from its non Mega version considering it can run an Adamant nature+Clear Body. Despite these flaws I think that A rank is too much because it can run many useful options and the combination of its bulk+offensive prowess pushes it among the A+ rank.

I'd like to nominate Rotom-H for C+ rank (from C).
I think that C rank is a bit harsh for the microwave oven despite being weak to Water, Rock and Mold Breaker Ground attacks because the resistances provided by the Fire type are very useful and enables it to check many threats in the metagame.
(a) resistance to Fairy towards physical Mega Altaria, Clefable, Mega Gardevoir,
(b) resistances to both Bug&Electric means it can check VoltTurn strategies better
(c) resistance to Grass means you can check Serperior better (bar HP Rock)
It requires the basic support of a Defogger/Rapid Spinner to wipe out Stealth Rock because Rotom-H is hindered by the SpA drop from its main STAB which forces the oven to switch often but, still, I see it being effective in the meta checking many pokemons (look at this http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ou-checks-compendium.3545711/) and retaliating a huge chunch of HP in return.