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Hate when people just focus on every negative aspect to nom something down -_- Both Ferro and Skarm but I think ferro still has a solid advantage in many situations with utility noves Skarmory wish it had (how ironic seeing some posts above).
First, people really underestimate how important a rock resist is on teams. Something like band terrakion could plow through a team if you lando-t + skarm but if you add ferro over skarm you have more breathing room to play around it. Band tyranitar as well.
Second, ferrothorn movepool isnt set on stone. Knock off and thunder wave are still viable options on it, providing threat control unlike whirlwind where skarm will lose on the end-game. Not being bait for shit like calm mind slowbro/slowking is nice.
They are just as comparable and they are effective depending of your rocker and type of teams. And stealth ferro is like salvageable unlike skarm. IMO, both skarm and ferro should both be A rank. Steel types are really important pillars in teambuilding and these provide massively important utility.
Mega Aerodactyl B+–>B
I've been a fan of Aerodactyl since RBY, and an even bigger fan of Mega Aero, but honestly this thing sticks out like a sore thumb in B+. Sure, he's a decent Mega and he can Pursuit trap somewhat well, but this is pretty sad:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 280-330 (93.6 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
If a Pursuit trapper has a chance to not kill Latios on the switch, it's probably not the best option to use.
As for an offensive Mega, he is fairly decent, although he suffers from a severe case of 4MSS, he has to carry Aerial Ace to hit mons like Tangrowth, Fire Fang to hit Ferrothorn hurt Skarmory, Aqua Tail for mons like Hippowdon and Heatran (EQ is better for Tran but Aqua Tail has more importance as it can hit Lando-T pretty hard too), Stone Edge for Flying types, Iron Head for Fairies, Ice Fang for Lando-T and TankChomp, and Pursuit to trap mons, and he can't do anything to mons like Slowbro and Rotom-W, without previously setting up, which he can't do against them because they 1HKO him. His 4MSS leaves no room for other moves like Hone Claws, Taunt, Defog, Roost or Stealth Rock, and using those severely opens him up to counters. His moveset isn't great and he doesn't hit as hard as just about every other mon currently in B+.
He can prove to be an ok Utility mon with some of the moves I previously listed, but honestly he's not nearly as good at it as other mons in the meta and that'd be a waste of your Mega slot
Mega Aerodactyl may have been a good choice back in the day, but with the meta shifting more towards Bulky Offense rather than Hyper Offense, his strength doesn't cut it. He's not nearly as threatening to offense as he used to be, and wasn't too threatening to Stall or Balance in the first place. His utility can be useful but it's better left to other mons, such as Skarmory, Heatran, Ferrothorn, or Ttar. Mega Aerodactyl is honestly just underwhelming right now, especially with the meta trends, which is why he'd fit better in B Rank.
View attachment 63646 Mega Aerodactyl B+–>B
I've been a fan of Aerodactyl since RBY, and an even bigger fan of Mega Aero, but honestly this thing sticks out like a sore thumb in B+. Sure, he's a decent Mega and he can Pursuit trap somewhat well, but this is pretty sad:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 280-330 (93.6 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
If a Pursuit trapper has a chance to not kill Latios on the switch, it's probably not the best option to use.
As for an offensive Mega, he is fairly decent, although he suffers from a severe case of 4MSS, he has to carry Aerial Ace to hit mons like Tangrowth, Fire Fang to hit Ferrothorn hurt Skarmory, Aqua Tail for mons like Hippowdon and Heatran (EQ is better for Tran but Aqua Tail has more importance as it can hit Lando-T pretty hard too), Stone Edge for Flying types, Iron Head for Fairies, Ice Fang for Lando-T and TankChomp, and Pursuit to trap mons, and he can't do anything to mons like Slowbro and Rotom-W, without previously setting up, which he can't do against them because they 1HKO him. His 4MSS leaves no room for other moves like Hone Claws, Taunt, Defog, Roost or Stealth Rock, and using those severely opens him up to counters. His moveset isn't great and he doesn't hit as hard as just about every other mon currently in B+.
He can prove to be an ok Utility mon with some of the moves I previously listed, but honestly he's not nearly as good at it as other mons in the meta and that'd be a waste of your Mega slot
Mega Aerodactyl may have been a good choice back in the day, but with the meta shifting more towards Bulky Offense rather than Hyper Offense, his strength doesn't cut it. He's not nearly as threatening to offense as he used to be, and wasn't too threatening to Stall or Balance in the first place. His utility can be useful but it's better left to other mons, such as Skarmory, Heatran, Ferrothorn, or Ttar. Mega Aerodactyl is honestly just underwhelming right now, especially with the meta trends, which is why he'd fit better in B Rank.
I don't think everyone is realizing that Mega Aerodactyl isn't made to 6-0 teams, which is a huge expectation for any threat in the metagame that is simply silly and unrealistic. Instead it feeds off of the prevalence of threats it does excel against such as Latios, Keldeo, Tornadus, and the long list of other Mons it threatens through virtue of movepool, speed, and power. Yeah, the metagame is shifting to bulky offense, but the notion that it can't put in any work at all on BO is laughable. Not a single team team is going to pack a full team of hard counters to Mega Aerodactyl and its never deadweight in any matchup bar stall. Speaking of counters, they only range from things like Clefable, Skarmory, Slowbro, etc which it can actually circumvent through its movepool. Iron Head may not be great but if you so desire you can use it to bop Clefable, Crunch pressure Slowbro / King a bit more, and Fire Fang is like the best coverage move to use on it. In short Mega Aerodactyl may not have incredibly impressive power, but through virtue of its movepool and exceptional utility in its speed + relatively powerful attacks it will always find some way to put in appropriate work. It's true that it kinda flops against really bulky balance and stall, but it has 5 other teammates that can makeup for its weak points and coming across good stall and balance breakers isn't a rarity these days.
I can see if you're disappointed in it if you're using completely garbage options like Defog, Stealth Rock, and Hone Claws, which you should never use. To take advantage of Mega Aerodactyl you have to use its best traits to your advantage. It may not have a billion different movesets, but the few it does utilize does its job really well. If you're using it with the expectation of it being able to break past the fattest threats in the metagame, then I'm sorry to say you're using it wrong.
All in all, Mega Aerodactyl has several unique and valuable attributes that make it the B+ threat it is today and seriously speaking, Mega Manectric should drop before Mega Aerodactyl does if power has ever been an issue with ranking.
I don't think everyone is realizing that Mega Aerodactyl isn't made to 6-0 teams, which is a huge expectation for any threat in the metagame that is simply silly and unrealistic. Instead it feeds off of the prevalence of threats it does excel against such as Latios, Keldeo, Tornadus, and the long list of other Mons it threatens through virtue of movepool, speed, and power. Yeah, the metagame is shifting to bulky offense, but the notion that it can't put in any work at all on BO is laughable. Not a single team team is going to pack a full team of hard counters to Mega Aerodactyl and its never deadweight in any matchup bar stall. Speaking of counters, they only range from things like Clefable, Skarmory, Slowbro, etc which it can actually circumvent through its movepool. Iron Head may not be great but if you so desire you can use it to bop Clefable, Crunch pressure Slowbro / King a bit more, and Fire Fang is like the best coverage move to use on it. In short Mega Aerodactyl may not have incredibly impressive power, but through virtue of its movepool and exceptional utility in its speed + relatively powerful attacks it will always find some way to put in appropriate work. It's true that it kinda flops against really bulky balance and stall, but it has 5 other teammates that can makeup for its weak points and coming across good stall and balance breakers isn't a rarity these days.
I can see if you're disappointed in it if you're using completely garbage options like Defog, Stealth Rock, and Hone Claws, which you should never use. To take advantage of Mega Aerodactyl you have to use its best traits to your advantage. It may not have a billion different movesets, but the few it does utilize does its job really well. If you're using it with the expectation of it being able to break past the fattest threats in the metagame, then I'm sorry to say you're using it wrong.
All in all, Mega Aerodactyl has several unique and valuable attributes that make it the B+ threat it is today and seriously speaking, Mega Manectric should drop before Mega Aerodactyl does if power has ever been an issue with ranking.
Yes, it has X, Y and Z but the metagame isn't favourable for mega Aerodactyl right now, sand is running rampant across the ladder and every team has muliple checks to Mega Aerodactyl.
So I've noticed that a TON of teams are following a common building pattern. It seems like a very solid teamstyle has evolved where you can get a team that will serve you pretty perfectly if you follow these guidelines: start with a Keldeo, Latios, and Landorus-t core. From there, the next two slots should contain any combination of Steel type and Mega. The last slot is purely filler depending on what you chose for the other two slots/what you think you're weak to.
I personally have built a lot of teams around this concept, and all the teams end up extremely solid. An example is something like Keldeo/Landorus/Latios/Ferrothorn/Diancie/Tornadus which I literally just made up on the spot and I'm sure would end up being a pretty solid team. Or there's the team I posted in the Sample Teams thread that had Keldeo/Latios/Landorus/Volcanion/Scizor/Ttar It's so easy to build an easy team around those three Pokemon, and I feel like a lot of people do just that.
Thoughts on this? Threats to this style? I would say Overloading Lando-T with stuff like Zard+Exca or really strong Fairies like Gard and Diancie could pose a threat depending on the last few slots. But I think it's interesting just how solid and common these types of teams are.
I don't know what moveset you're running but every team is almost naturally running counters to Aerodactyl Times like this you wish it got Aerilate instead :(
Hate when people just focus on every negative aspect to nom something down -_- Both Ferro and Skarm but I think ferro still has a solid advantage in many situations with utility noves Skarmory wish it had (how ironic seeing some posts above).
First, people really underestimate how important a rock resist is on teams. Something like band terrakion could plow through a team if you lando-t + skarm but if you add ferro over skarm you have more breathing room to play around it. Band tyranitar as well.
Second, ferrothorn movepool isnt set on stone. Knock off and thunder wave are still viable options on it, providing threat control unlike whirlwind where skarm will lose on the end-game. Not being bait for shit like calm mind slowbro/slowking is nice.
They are just as comparable and they are effective depending of your rocker and type of teams. And stealth ferro is like salvageable unlike skarm. IMO, both skarm and ferro should both be A rank. Steel types are really important pillars in teambuilding and these provide massively important utility.
Lets not forget how much Ferrothorn's resistances are appreciated on balance, and also the fact that it can be tweaked to do so much other than just hazard stacking(imo Ferrothorn SHOULD be running Spikes, because decent Stealth Rock users that synergize well with Ferrothorn, are a dime a dozen, but there are honestly very few splashable Spikes users). Ferrothorn provides checks to so many relevant things in one slot that its not even funny, ranging from MVoir/MZam(especially if its running Chople Berry) to the Latis. It can fit on a lot of playstyles except hard stall for the most part, and it has PLENTY of room to do its job in this meta, honestly.
It hasn't gotten any worse, and if anything I think Skarmory is worse than Ferrothorn, mostly because it doesn't fit everywhere, while Ferrothorn is far more splashable and actually blanket checks a good deal of the meta.
Also Mega Aerodactyl DOES see a lots of its checks/counters game to game; but it still does have that really nice match up versus offense, which is reasonably common from what I've seen. But tbh its not THAT good, game to game; being able to offensively check a bunch of relevant threats+being a nice way to check Torn-T and being able to support a lot of stuff in the tier with Pusuit(yes i think Mega Aero should always run this) is really awesome though.
Breloom has a lot going for it these days, as sand has grown better while stall remains a metagame staple, and the likes of Mega Charizard X/Y and Mega Altaria are less prominent. Now, we all know what this can do, but what I think makes Breloom stand out in the diversity of the meta is its ability to function well against multiple playstyles. Breloom beats sand, pressures every Stall mon bar Amoonguss, breaks Clefable, threatens bulky cores on Balance, and smacks Offense by being tough to switch in to. Spore, of course, speaks for itself. It really isn't dead weight no matter who you face, although Amoonguss and Tangrowth are clearly problematic.
Another plus is unpredictability; Sash + Rock Tomb lures and destroys Torn, Talon, and the Zards, Toxic Orb Facade walls Rotom-W and hits stall even harder, and LO sets are as reliable as ever.
It is true that it isn't as splashable as the A-rank mons, but that's why it doesn't belong there. Breloom consistently performs better than many of its B-rank associates (Raikou, Togekiss, etc) and seems more on the level of Mega Manectric, Gengar, and Kyurem-Black in its spashability and effectiveness. Just check the RMT forum: Breloom is about as common as the B+ rank Pokemon, and for good reason: it generally puts in work, and makes a good partner for many of the meta's premier threats, such as Jirachi, Mega Scizor, Torn-T, etc.
Its flaws, while evident, can be mitigated with good team support (like breaking opposing grass-types and providing speed control), and its positive attributes make it more on the level of B+ than B.
tl;dr give the mushroom some love
CTC is a lord. fair enough lol. Fixed some points made up there.
Breloom has a lot going for it these days, as sand has grown better while stall remains a metagame staple, and the likes of Mega Charizard X/Y and Mega Altaria are less prominent. Now, we all know what this can do, but what I think makes Breloom stand out in the diversity of the meta is its ability to function well against multiple playstyles. Breloom beats sand, pressures every Stall mon bar Amoonguss, breaks Clefable, threatens bulky cores on Balance, and smacks Offense by being tough to switch in to. Spore, of course, speaks for itself. It really isn't dead weight no matter who you face.
Another plus is unpredictability; Sash + Rock Tomb lures and destroys Torn, Talon, and the Zards, Toxic Orb Facade walls Rotom-W and hits stall even harder, and LO sets are as reliable as ever.
It is true that it isn't as splashable as the A-rank mons, but that's why it doesn't belong there. Breloom consistently performs better than many of its B-rank associates (Raikou, Togekiss, etc) and seems more on the level of Mega Manectric, Gengar, and Kyurem-Black in its spashability and effectiveness. Just check the RMT forum: Breloom is about as common as the B+ rank Pokemon and generally puts in work, and makes a good partner for many of the meta's premier threats, such as Jirachi, Mega Scizor, Torn-T, etc.
Its flaws, while evident, can be mitigated with good team support (like breaking opposing grass-types and providing speed control), and its positive attributes make it more on the level of B+ than B.
I couldn't agree more. Breloom is such a consistent threat to any team bar Mega Venusaur balance. Being able to threaten offence with an excellent sash set, putting Landorus-t/Garchomp right to sleep early game and then still being a check to various threats late game simply by having priority and Focus sash is great. Balance is just demolished by the Life orb set - +2 Adamant Life orb Technician Mach punch hits so hard, it's insane, never mind simply putting all its "would be" counters to sleep. Stall has big issues with its Poison heal set, +2 Facade does a massive amount to Amoongus while the rest is destroyed - ABR stall really does not have a lot to threaten it with after Gothitelle was banned(practically speaking)
It's a solid mon, it's positives outweight the negatives and even though Rocky Helmet can be annoying Breloom can threaten all of the common Rocky helmet users. Should rise to B+
Breloom has a lot going for it these days, as sand has grown better while stall remains a metagame staple, and the likes of Mega Charizard X/Y and Mega Altaria are less prominent. Now, we all know what this can do, but what I think makes Breloom stand out in the diversity of the meta is its ability to function well against multiple playstyles. Breloom beats sand, pressures every Stall mon bar Amoonguss, breaks Clefable, threatens bulky cores on Balance, and smacks Offense by being tough to switch in to. Spore, of course, speaks for itself. It really isn't dead weight no matter who you face.
Another plus is unpredictability; Sash + Rock Tomb lures and destroys Torn, Talon, and the Zards, Toxic Orb Facade walls Rotom-W and hits stall even harder, and LO sets are as reliable as ever.
It is true that it isn't as splashable as the A-rank mons, but that's why it doesn't belong there. Breloom consistently performs better than many of its B-rank associates (Raikou, Togekiss, etc) and seems more on the level of Mega Manectric, Gengar, and Kyurem-Black in its spashability and effectiveness. Just check the RMT forum: Breloom is about as common as the B+ rank Pokemon and generally puts in work, and makes a good partner for many of the meta's premier threats, such as Jirachi, Mega Scizor, Torn-T, etc.
Its flaws, while evident, can be mitigated with good team support (like breaking opposing grass-types and providing speed control), and its positive attributes make it more on the level of B+ than B.
Ok I'm pretty undecided on Breloom rising but you made some bad points imo. For one thing you say it's not dead-weight against whoever you face but in the same paragraph mention how it can't break past Amoonguss. The fact of the matter is that Breloom IS dead-weight against teams with Amoonguss, as well as Tangrowth and M-Venu (which isn't that great rn but still deserves a mention) which the former two are pretty popular pivots rn that Breloom seriously struggles against so it's a stretch to say that it has a great matchup against every team out there. You also mention it's apparent commonality as a point in its favor, which is nothing but an argument out of popularity. People love using Ambipom and Typhlosion in RU, does that make them good choices? No, they're literally the worst mons in the tier, so being "common" won't help breloom be any more viable than it is (not saying that Breloom is as bad in OU as those two are in RU). Overall there isn't much else I want to point out, it's just those few things that annoyed me.
Yea loom struggles a ton against teams with amoonguss and tang unfortunately. Especially when you consider how those mons just don't die due to regen it seems. You could try running a lure alongside it I suppose but outside that, loom has major problems. I do think it's quite effective right now but it's also worth considering how often stuff like sand offense and bulky teams which loom is supposed to target run those mons. That being said, even with loom having trouble in matchups against tang and amoonguss, I'm hesitant to say it should be ranked the same as stuff like raikou which is just absolutely terrible right now. I think it'd probably be okay for loom to move up to B+.
And yeah, a Breloom rise seems the right thing at this point, why is it B rank exactly? There are not many counters to it, Breloom may be a massive threat but the usage of grass type walls like Amoonguss is the reason why you aren't seeing Breloom in the A ranks, B+ seems the right move, looking at some pokemon in B+/A-, Breloom seems more threatening than them, pokemon like M-Aero, Nidoking and Latias are cool but no way Breloom is worse than them, it is considered less viable than Mew, Mega Altaria and 2 sub-ranks below Mega Venusaur and Mega Gyarados, Breloom is more relevant to the metagame than those, i first thought that it was ranked in B+/A-, heck it's good, i'm talking from personal experience since i've used Breloom to great success and often struggle with it, a fairly powerful attacker that can boost itself and that uses Spore, rendering one opponent's pokemon useless, while it suffers from problems like being stopped by Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur, fraility and a not so good speed tier but it has many redeeming qualities, it can be a dangerous sweeper/wallbreaker since LO Breloom hits really hard, Bullet seed has the potential to deal crazy damage and has Tech boosted Mach Punch is awesome, especially when it can be boosted by Swords Dance, people already explained why it is good and every OU player needs to be beware of Breloom, B rank seems so low, Breloom is certainly the best of them and needs to rise to B+ rank.
I dissagree. In my opinion best thing that breloom can do right now is forcing switch to amoonguss/tangrowth but knowint that both of them have regenerator it isn't that good.
Let's say it quick if you want put something to sleep both amoonguss and tangrowth are better at that because they have other utility of walling things, knocking off items, spreading poision and overall being annoying.
Sash breloom have hard time against teams with amoonguss, tangrowth, mega medicham, mega loppuny, jirachi, ferrothorn (even despite it's fighting weakness since no one realy runs superpower on breloom).
That's quite wide variety of teams to be honest.
And breloom sweep it's not really a thing. 130attack technican mach punch is scary, but fighting resistances are everywhere and it is not so simply to just weaken them all.
Overall I think that breloom is good but too much match-up dependent while things like amoongus spores things more reliably due to bulk and regenerator. You can even run amoonguss on offence and in my opinuon it is not dead weight.
And no way breloom is better than nidoking. Nidokign is amazing ;_; he should be ou.
Since we are speaking about Breloom here, I wanted to point something out: what has become of the subPunch set? Is it not viable anymore? It isnt even ranked in the Sets Viability ranking thread.
Since we are speaking about Breloom here, I wanted to point something out: what has become of the subPunch set? Is it not viable anymore? It isnt even ranked in the Sets Viability ranking thread.
SunPunch is a cool set, but I just prefer Force Palm, as you can fire it off immediately, doesn't require a Sub for safe usage, and parahax is always nice.
Since we are speaking about Breloom here, I wanted to point something out: what has become of the subPunch set? Is it not viable anymore? It isnt even ranked in the Sets Viability ranking thread.
I feel like sub-punch anything, while they are powerful and can be quite effective, are at best gimmick sets. They rely almost completely on sub in order to get a focus punch off, which for Breloom especially is a challenge considering its mediocre bulk. Honestly you're better off using a Lead or LO SD Loom instead of Sub-Punch
I'm pretty sure that SubPunch is on the sets VR as a component of Poison Heal (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this), and I think the thing about SubPunch Loom is that it benefits a lot from the pressure Spore exerts onto the opponent, allowing it to set itself apart really well from other potential SubPunch users nicely, and it means that it can often fire off a raw Focus Punch. In addition, you need to consider that Poison Heal means that 2 turns of healing completely restores any health lost with Sub, so these same forced switches are pretty easy to abuse with said move despite its frailty. Utilising Spore wisely and not using it until absolutely necessary is generally a big part of how SubPunch plays anyway, so I wouldn't get too hung up on that.
That said, I'm not quite sure why SubPunch is being argued about here. Its best set is obviously Technician+LO/Black Belt, and I don't really think that Sash and Poison Heal are really notable enough to be a major part of the argument for whether it moves up or not, and I can't really say with confidence that it is on the same level as stuff like Tangrowth and Latias in the current metagame. I could see a handful of B+ Pokémon moving down to B to match it (Altaria and Suicune are pretty bleh tbh and honestly Breloom is at least as good as them if not better imo, although this is certainly a v. subjective thing and I can understand why people may potentially disagree with me on this), but I don't think that the merits of its standard set are really enough to move it up. I think that being able to act as a check to sand on offense is cool and all, but considering that Breloom is an unreliable check to it at best combined with its redundance in that role considering that Rotom-W and Lando-T are both v. good in the current meta means that it isn't enough to warrant a rise, and I don't think the merits of Sash or PHeal are notable enough to really propel Breloom's viability enough to push it over the edge.
View attachment 63646 Mega Aerodactyl B+–>B
I've been a fan of Aerodactyl since RBY, and an even bigger fan of Mega Aero, but honestly this thing sticks out like a sore thumb in B+. Sure, he's a decent Mega and he can Pursuit trap somewhat well, but this is pretty sad:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 280-330 (93.6 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
If a Pursuit trapper has a chance to not kill Latios on the switch, it's probably not the best option to use.
As for an offensive Mega, he is fairly decent, although he suffers from a severe case of 4MSS, he has to carry Aerial Ace to hit mons like Tangrowth, Fire Fang to hit Ferrothorn hurt Skarmory, Aqua Tail for mons like Hippowdon and Heatran (EQ is better for Tran but Aqua Tail has more importance as it can hit Lando-T pretty hard too), Stone Edge for Flying types, Iron Head for Fairies, Ice Fang for Lando-T and TankChomp, and Pursuit to trap mons, and he can't do anything to mons like Slowbro and Rotom-W, without previously setting up, which he can't do against them because they 1HKO him. His 4MSS leaves no room for other moves like Hone Claws, Taunt, Defog, Roost or Stealth Rock, and using those severely opens him up to counters. His moveset isn't great and he doesn't hit as hard as just about every other mon currently in B+.
He can prove to be an ok Utility mon with some of the moves I previously listed, but honestly he's not nearly as good at it as other mons in the meta and that'd be a waste of your Mega slot
Mega Aerodactyl may have been a good choice back in the day, but with the meta shifting more towards Bulky Offense rather than Hyper Offense, his strength doesn't cut it. He's not nearly as threatening to offense as he used to be, and wasn't too threatening to Stall or Balance in the first place. His utility can be useful but it's better left to other mons, such as Skarmory, Heatran, Ferrothorn, or Ttar. Mega Aerodactyl is honestly just underwhelming right now, especially with the meta trends, which is why he'd fit better in B Rank.
Mega aero as well as any rock type right now is amazing in the meta game. Mega aero is an amazing anti offense mon that also has amazing offensive typing and amazing coverage. The thing right now that makes it imo decent right now and is B+ worthy is the fact that nobody really packs a good rock resist and blnobody really peeps for mega aero. The main problem is that it struggles with stall and a lot of bulky waters which kinda hinders it
In order for a mon to take advantage of the lack of rock resists right now it needs to be a hard hitter. Like it helps it out a bit i suppose but its not like cb terrakion or ttar which hit so ridiculously hard that anything that doesn't resist it is getting seriously dented by stone edge. Maero is like pitifully weak in comparision to those mons unfortunately, so i dont see this as a valid argument against it dropping. Aero is just held back so much by not having powerful, spammable STAB moves and its very reliant on team support to wear down its foes to get basically anything done.
As for the "amazing coverage": mega aero struggles from having to rely on low base power coverage moves like fangs which basically need tough claws to do any sort of notable damage and even then dont hit particularly hard. I'd hardly call that amazing
Yeah... the coverage hits roughly like unboosted ft/boltbeam and against anything thats not ho (even then sometimes lol) it just doesn't cut it and against bulkier archtypes like semi/full stall its dead weight and those rule the higher ladder right now.
Well, I don't think that "don't hit like a truck" is good argument against mega aerodactyl. It is great late game sweeper which does not need any setup turns to be fast and deadly and it still can switch it's moves. With little damage it can break through rotoms, hippowdons, amoongus, tangrowths, clefables, ferrothorns and others in just one set.
Also argument "it's not good against stall" is really shaky because again, it is not it's job. For other hand, togekiss is amazing against stall, but it is still lower in viability ranking and for good reasons.
Mega Aerodactyl's match up versus stall is bad, and it match up versus bulky offense isn't THAT good, although it can clean against them decently assuming its checks and counters, like Ferrothorn/Lando-T or Garchomp/Rotom-W are gone. It requires the balanced squad to be EXTREMELY chipped though before it can actually sweep, to the point that something else can probably clean up as well at that point. Its only really noticeable match up, is offense to be honest. Should still be ranked somewhere in the Bs though because it can just check a lot of relevant stuff in a pinch either by virtue of being faster, and being able to KO or by virtue of typing.
I'm reading all these arguments about Mega Aerodactyl's checks and counters, yet only one mentioned by SunnyORAS is even a near guaranteed switch every single time. Tough Claws and it's wide coverage taking advantage of the boost is the icing on the cake when using Mega Aerodactyl as it's the biggest boon it could have ever gotten, otherwise it'd be even weaker than it is now. It's true that of course CB Terrakion and Tyranitar a much stronger than it, but wallbreaking isn't the purpose of even using Mega Aerodactyl. It's the speed, coverage, and good enough power that makes it valuable enough as a pick for some teams.
This is a MegaStarUniverse CB Terrakion BO ripped from the Sample Teams Thread. Just looking at it, with the right moveset Mega Aerodactyl would put in considerable work against this team. With a simple set of Stone Edge / Wing Attack / Ice Fang / Pursuit you'd see that it's matchup isn't too bad at all. With Stealth Rock IFang 2HKOes Mega Latias and Pursuit does over 55% when if it were to switch-out. Terrakion isn't a feasible Flying-resist by a long shot, IFang tears Lando a new one, Stone Edge and Pursuit wear down Heatran considerably, and Rotom-W gets worn down to fell trying to consistently tank Stone Edge whenever Mega Aerodactyl hits the field. Clefable is the only long time counter to Mega Aerodactyl on this team and despite it being the best Pokemon in the tier, it has it checks and counters that are prevalent enough (Jirachi, Heatran, Azumarill) to support Mega Aerodactyl's downfall of not being able to break it.
Light of Dawn (Reuniclus) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Calm Mind
Runaway (Manectric-Mega) @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower
Ethereal (Tyranitar) @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 168 SpD / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Rock Slide
- Pursuit
So Far Away (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 224 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD / 24 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind
Open Your Eyes (Amoonguss) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 76 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Fire]
This is a FlamingVictini offensive balance team also from the Sample Team Thread. Again, with a simple glance you'd see where Mega Aerodactyl with the right moveset can give this team a run for it's money. A set of Stone Edge / Fire Fang / Wing Attack / Pursuit pressures this team to hell and back, especially considering nothing on this team can even switch-in bar Reuinclus and Tyranitar without being 2HKOed, the latter of which gets worn down so fast (no recovery and 3HKOed by Stone Edge) it's not even funny. You can say that Reuinclus is the real thorn in it's side here, but again and not looking at Mega Aero's effectiveness in a vacuum, there are several extremely viable teammates such as Bisharp, Weavile, Azumarill, Heatran, Manaphy, Serperior, etc which all take advantage of it and actually prosper more from Mega Aero luring it in.
It's not a secret that Mega Aerodactyl usually fails against stall which is why I only gave examples in BO and balance, but the multiple accusations of it not usually being able to do anything to bulkier teams is simply fallacious and implies that there were nothing but unadvised generalizations of it's effectiveness. Of course it has some really hard counters on those types of teams like (Mega)Slowbro, Clefable, Mega Sableye, and Chansey + short-term ones such as Rotom-W, but that only concludes to Mega Aerodactyl's effectiveness being more matchup-based, possibly even moveset based rather than a sure thing in every single game it's used in. Some game against bulky teams it will do very well, some not so much, but that reigns true for a lot of the higher ranked Pokemon as well.
The Fangs have pretty low base-powers but it has them nonetheless and I don't see what "need tough claws" even mean considering it has no choice in what it can use and there is no reason to not use Tough Claws if there was a choice. That's the same as saying that Mega Scizor practically needs Technician to even be as big of a threat as it is now, which is partially true considering the high use of Bug Bite and Bullet Punch pretty much mandatory. Moving on, the Fangs are exactly what it needed too to limit the maneuverability of would be counters such as Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, and Garchomp so I don't see how that can be shape-shifted into a negative aspect for it considering it's imperative for it to have access to them to be a threat now.
AllJokesAside what natural counters are you referring too and sand decreases the effectiveness of everything in the viability rankings, just more in some than others and I don't really see how it impacts Mega Aerodactyl more than others, care to explain yourself? The two sample teams that Halcyon mentioned in his quote both fall to a well-played Mega Aerodactyl. Keldeo / Lando / Latios / Ferro / Diancie / Tornadus is ravaged by it. Keldeo, Latios, Diancie, and Tornadus all lose to it for obvious reasons (Wing Attack / Pursuit / Stone Edge + Speed / Stone Edge + Speed) and the last slot belongs to a Fang. Fire Fang (usually the wiser choice) catches Ferro and Landorus-T either gets worn down from the combined team efforts (again, looking in the vacuum) which by extension could be the same situation with Ferrothorn or Ice Fang limits Lando. Halcyon's sample team also has trouble with it for obvious reason that can be concluded with a simple glance over the team in the thread.
All in all, Mega Aerodactyl is seriously being examined in an extremely narrow vacuum and I still believe it's a solid B+ mon. It's being downplayed to hell and back maybe due to inexperience of using it or still pawning off roles it will never fulfill such as sweeping or wallbreaking. It's a really matchup-based mon, just like anything else on the rankings (Mega Lop, Mega Cham, Manaphy, Volcanion) and I dislike it seems matchup-based is only being applied to Mega Aero when this game revolves around it and luck. I also believe that if anything should drop Mega Manectric should before Mega Aerodactyl does. Apologies if neither of the two tagged appreciated my use of their teams.
e: SunnyORAS the normal conditions sentiment below is pretty meh considering it's going to have Stone Edge / Wing Attack / Pursuit / Filler and the first three alone are enough to still prove the point I was trying to make + the fact that a Fang is the best option in that slot which doesn't really mean it can even step out of what's set in stone for it use bar teammates it's paired with. Also half the new things you listed don't want the take a Fire Fang, Stone Edge, etc bar Slowbro which is a a true counter to it through and through. But, yeah the situation you described with "magically" is what I said which really means matchup-based.
I'm reading all these arguments about Mega Aerodactyl's checks and counters, yet only one mentioned by SunnyORAS is even a near guaranteed switch every single time. Tough Claws and it's wide coverage taking advantage of the boost is the icing on the cake when using Mega Aerodactyl as it's the biggest boon it could have ever gotten, otherwise it'd be even weaker than it is now. It's true that of course CB Terrakion and Tyranitar a much stronger than it, but wallbreaking isn't the purpose of even using Mega Aerodactyl. It's the speed, coverage, and good enough power that makes it valuable enough as a pick for some teams.
This is a MegaStarUniverse CB Terrakion BO ripped from the Sample Teams Thread. Just looking at it, with the right moveset Mega Aerodactyl would put in considerable work against this team. With a simple set of Stone Edge / Wing Attack / Ice Fang / Pursuit you'd see that it's matchup isn't too bad at all. With Stealth Rock IFang 2HKOes Mega Latias and Pursuit does over 55% when if it were to switch-out. Terrakion isn't a feasible Flying-resist by a long shot, IFang tears Lando a new one, Stone Edge and Pursuit wear down Heatran considerably, and Rotom-W gets worn down to fell trying to consistently tank Stone Edge whenever Mega Aerodactyl hits the field. Clefable is the only long time counter to Mega Aerodactyl on this team and despite it being the best Pokemon in the tier, it has it checks and counters that are prevalent enough (Jirachi, Heatran, Azumarill) to support Mega Aerodactyl's downfall of not being able to break it.
Light of Dawn (Reuniclus) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Calm Mind
Runaway (Manectric-Mega) @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower
Ethereal (Tyranitar) @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 168 SpD / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Rock Slide
- Pursuit
So Far Away (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 224 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD / 24 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind
Open Your Eyes (Amoonguss) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 76 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Fire]
This is a FlamingVictini offensive balance team also from the Sample Team Thread. Again, with a simple glance you'd see where Mega Aerodactyl with the right moveset can give this team a run for it's money. A set of Stone Edge / Fire Fang / Wing Attack / Pursuit pressures this team to hell and back, especially considering nothing on this team can even switch-in bar Reuinclus and Tyranitar without being 2HKOed, the latter of which gets worn down so fast (no recovery and 3HKOed by Stone Edge) it's not even funny. You can say that Reuinclus is the real thorn in it's side here, but again and not looking at Mega Aero's effectiveness in a vacuum, there are several extremely viable teammates such as Bisharp, Weavile, Azumarill, Heatran, Manaphy, Serperior, etc which all take advantage of it and actually prosper more from Mega Aero luring it in.
It's not a secret that Mega Aerodactyl usually fails against stall which is why I only gave examples in BO and balance, but the multiple accusations of it not usually being able to do anything to bulkier teams is simply fallacious and implies that there were nothing but unadvised generalizations of it's effectiveness. Of course it has some really hard counters on those types of teams like (Mega)Slowbro, Clefable, Mega Sableye, and Chansey + short-term ones such as Rotom-W, but that only concludes to Mega Aerodactyl's effectiveness being more matchup-based, possibly even moveset based rather than a sure thing in every single game it's used in. Some game against bulky teams it will do very well, some not so much, but that reigns true for a lot of the higher ranked Pokemon as well.
The Fangs have pretty low base-powers but it has them nonetheless and I don't see what "need tough claws" even mean considering it has no choice in what it can use and there is no reason to not use Tough Claws if there was a choice. That's the same as saying that Mega Scizor practically needs Technician to even be as big of a threat as it is now, which is partially true considering the high use of Bug Bite and Bullet Punch pretty much mandatory. Moving on, the Fangs are exactly what it needed too to limit the maneuverability of would be counters such as Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, and Garchomp so I don't see how that can be shape-shifted into a negative aspect for it considering it's imperative for it to have access to them to be a threat now.
AllJokesAside what natural counters are you referring too and sand decreases the effectiveness of everything in the viability rankings, just more in some than others and I don't really see how it impacts Mega Aerodactyl more than others, care to explain yourself? The two sample teams that Halcyon mentioned in his quote both fall to a well-played Mega Aerodactyl. Keldeo / Lando / Latios / Ferro / Diancie / Tornadus is ravaged by it. Keldeo, Latios, Diancie, and Tornadus all lose to it for obvious reasons (Wing Attack / Pursuit / Stone Edge + Speed / Stone Edge + Speed) and the last slot belongs to a Fang. Fire Fang (usually the wiser choice) catches Ferro and Landorus-T either gets worn down from the combined team efforts (again, looking in the vacuum) which by extension could be the same situation with Ferrothorn or Ice Fang limits Lando. Halcyon's sample team also has trouble with it for obvious reason that can be concluded with a simple glance over the team in the thread.
All in all, Mega Aerodactyl is seriously being examined in an extremely narrow vacuum and I still believe it's a solid B+ mon. It's being downplayed to hell and back maybe due to inexperience of using it or still pawning off roles it will never fulfill such as sweeping or wallbreaking. It's a really matchup-based mon, just like anything else on the rankings (Mega Lop, Mega Cham, Manaphy, Volcanion) and I dislike it seems matchup-based is only being applied to Mega Aero when this game revolves around it and luck. I also believe that if anything should drop Mega Manectric should before Mega Aerodactyl does. Apologies if neither of the two tagged appreciated my use of their teams.
Thank you a lot for this. Really got me interested in looking deeper into MAero and maybe use it. MAero is nowhere seen in OU though (1%), I know usage isnt the only thing to rank a Pokémon but thats also why people bash it maybe.
You're kind of cherry picking sets there tbh; and if rotom-w/ferro aren't your ideas of safe check than I dunno what you're talking about. I stand by maero needing a lot of things in its favor to break past bulky offense; also I don't expect aerodactyl to come in and spam its attacks uncontested; lot of Mons I neglected to list as checks but if you want I can def get you a list; mega gross/mega zor/slowbro/jirachi/ttar,etc; hazards, and the fact that you have a cherry picked situation to suit your nom. I'm not saying maero is bad and I did say it should be somewhere in the b ranks. And also iirc mlop also has ice punch yet we consider chomp/lando-t to check them to some extent. I didn't say it was bad and said it was a somewhere in the b ranks Mon, but the way you're hyping it up is like its in the a ranks lol. Tbh you could say you have fire fang maero/magnezone and then go oh not even ferro checks maero now, but the thing is I'm assuming normal conditions where both players are competent and you're not getting a threat in every turn for free.
I do think maero should be more common tho fwiw. You seem to magically choose the perfect set in any given match up in so far as your coverage move is concerned, which more often than not means at least one or two things are proper checks/counters, also in my post I said checks and counter not counters...I'll say it again maero can be a threat but there's no way it straight up wins vs a more balanced team unless you magically have ice fang/fire fang/aqua tail/pursuit/stone edge/wing attack maero or manage to have the perfect 4 for each matchup you face, which realistically won't happen. I do understand what you're getting at but same tokens of support, having other mons goes for you as well as your opponent; so I'd say you're looking at the issue in a vacuum yourself tbh.
And if you feel its really matchup based: a sentiment which I echo...your nomination should reflect that. The description rn feels like you think this is a win button of some sort vs balance which I think just isn't true.for what its worth maero can be good assuming vs balanced/bulkier squads assuming you have the right moves, but it still is heavily match up dependent.
Typed this up on phone so there are prolly some errors but w/e
had a chat with littlelucario:
LL: he was saying that rotomw is the only one out of that list lol, all the other mons get bopped by elemental fangs upon switch
Me: I get that but you don't magically have all the fangs on maero at once. I'm pretty sure I qualified rotom/ferro/lando-t/chomp as as checks and counters. I also think that you don't non in a vacuum assuming oh no sr damage, oh my opponent is bad and let all of his checks get chipped. to be quite frank if you have those three and you lose....you played badly. His non also made little sense in the context of the fact that it was for b+, the glowing reviews were almost like those of a ranked Mon. He says he knows its matchup based then produces it with a different coverage move twice for what point exactly? Oh to prove that it does well against balance in general. Sorry man but I just thought he was straight up wrong.
LL:the thing is that you can customize maero based on the rest of your team. Like, you can run aero+mag and not have to wory about ferro or aero+sand and overload the fat grounds enough so that you don't have to worry about running ice fang and shit like that
Me:Thing is because for the most part double stab+pursuit is needed you have one open slot, also I noted mag+maero in my post. Realistically at any point you have only one of the fang moves unless you want to drop pursuit...which is questionable. Or unless you want to drop a stab in which case a new set of checks and counters emerges. The thing is actually mentioned, noticed most of the things you're mentioning. I asked for maero somewhere in the b ranks, I'm not asking for it to be unranked or anything. My points are valid, and most of the points you bring up can be done with other megas more effectively. And further,if you don't bother with ice fang then my point just becomes even stronger and I can just make an argument for 4mss honestly.
I honestly feel very disturbed that I didn't sleep so that I could discuss Maero's viability but w/e.
Also wanna say that even though rock stab is amazing rn, there are better things like cb tar to exploit it with, hell even mdiancie with phys attack investment pops to mind before MAero lol. Maybe that vr post will make more sense, when i see some high level replays+ non-cherry picked cases, but i doubt that'll happen
Looks like multiple people missed the point which I agree with HailFall on. Someone claimed that Mega Aero is good "just like any other rock type right now" because of a lack of Rock resists. Issue is that Aero isn't a hard hitter to take advantage of the lack of resists of its STAB whereas Max Atk Diancie or Band Terrakion/Ttar make you think a lot harder about switching in your "resist" Mega Scizor or Lando-T. Granted Aero can hit these mons with coverage but this has very little to do with its rock typing. So this meta trend of offensive rock types being good doesn't apply to Aerodactyl because it can't just spam STAB and 2HKO everything which is the premise behind that trend.
I also think -Magic-'s post has some flaws when talking about Aeros matchup with that Mega Lati balance. Lots of talk about how things don't like switching in, but what is it threatening out to force these switch-ins? Lando-T, Rotom, Clefable, and Mega Latias have no reason to switch out of it really. If it's Aqua Tail then Lati walls it all day, and if it has Ice Fang then it can't threaten Terrakion from full. Aero has a pretty bad matchup with this team, the only way it's gonna put in work is after a lot of things have been whittled down and even then Clefable just comes in all day.
I don't really agree that Manectric should drop first. Its coverage is way more devastating IMO, not much resists it whereas Aero is always picking and choosing stuff. It's much more of a pain for offense because it actually checks common priority mons (Scizor and Azu) whereas Aerodactyl is weak to a lot of priority moves including Weavile's and that thing is a beast rn. Sure there's Talonflame but like realistically Aero's matchup against offense has always been exaggerated - it has 4MSS, its coverage moves are weak and its really susceptible to the aforementioned priority moves. Offense also carries more blanket physical checks and often has issues with electrics - so okay Manectric gonna have a worse matchup against Sand but it's not like Aero is good against balance either really. In terms of what's more threatening to offensive teams (which should be your main niche if you rely heavily on speed), it's definitely Manectric.
In order to get your money's worth usually you would run Pursuit Aero and there are better trappers. The only thing it really beats reliably in terms of trapping that Ttar doesn't is TornT (admittedly a big one), although I guess it depends on the Ttar set for other stuff anyway.
Edit it was A- before I believe actually my bad on that sentence which I have taken out
I wouldn't really call it a better mon than Breloom or Slowking either. There are cases for those mons to rise but I think the case for Breloom is weak and Slowking I feel iffy about. If Mega Venu and Mega Bro drop (which I think they should), I would probably say Aerodactyl should drop as well. It's not on the threat level of Mega Slowbro and as I said before isn't even that great of an offense breaker.
Looks like multiple people missed the point which I agree with HailFall on. Someone claimed that Mega Aero is good "just like any other rock type right now" because of a lack of Rock resists. Issue is that Aero isn't a hard hitter to take advantage of the lack of resists of its STAB whereas Max Atk Diancie or Band Terrakion/Ttar make you think a lot harder about switching in your "resist" Mega Scizor or Lando-T. Granted Aero can hit these mons with coverage but this has very little to do with its rock typing. So this meta trend of offensive rock types being good doesn't apply to Aerodactyl because it can't just spam STAB and 2HKO everything which is the premise behind that trend.
I also think -Magic-'s post has some flaws when talking about Aeros matchup with that Mega Lati balance. Lots of talk about how things don't like switching in, but what is it threatening out to force these switch-ins? Lando-T, Rotom, Clefable, and Mega Latias have no reason to switch out of it really. If it's Aqua Tail then Lati walls it all day, and if it has Ice Fang then it can't threaten Terrakion from full. Aero has a pretty bad matchup with this team, the only way it's gonna put in work is after a lot of things have been whittled down and even then Clefable just comes in all day.
I don't really agree that Manectric should drop first. Its coverage is way more devastating IMO, not much resists it whereas Aero is always picking and choosing stuff. It's much more of a pain for offense because it actually checks common priority mons (Scizor and Azu) whereas Aerodactyl is weak to a lot of priority moves including Weavile's and that thing is a beast rn. Sure there's Talonflame but like realistically Aero's matchup against offense has always been exaggerated - it has 4MSS, its coverage moves are weak and its really susceptible to the aforementioned priority moves. Offense also carries more blanket physical checks and often has issues with electrics - so okay Manectric gonna have a worse matchup against Sand but it's not like Aero is good against balance either really. In terms of what's more threatening to offensive teams (which should be your main niche if you rely heavily on speed), it's definitely Manectric.
In order to get your money's worth usually you would run Pursuit Aero and there are better trappers. The only thing it really beats reliably in terms of trapping that Ttar doesn't is TornT (admittedly a big one), although I guess it depends on the Ttar set for other stuff anyway.
Edit it was A- before I believe actually my bad on that sentence which I have taken out
I wouldn't really call it a better mon than Breloom or Slowking either. There are cases for those mons to rise but I think the case for Breloom is weak and Slowking I feel iffy about. If Mega Venu and Mega Bro drop (which I think they should), I would probably say Aerodactyl should drop as well. It's not on the threat level of Mega Slowbro and as I said before isn't even that great of an offense breaker.
Hey bludz there is something I don't get. How argument like "aero don't hit as hard as CB" is good argument for drop. Half year ago mega aerodactyl also did not hit as hard CB terrakion? It could be good counterargument for rise but for drop I seen no sense in that.
