Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V5 (See Page 43 - Post #1063)

[HailFall]

A -> A-: yes
volcanion isnt fun to switch into but steam eruption is pretty easily pp stalled vs slower teams, faster teams dont really have an issue revenge killing it. in the department of defensive utility it faces a good amount of competition from heatran which checks basically all the same things it does except like bd azu. its not really bad or anything but its not that good either. its really not on the level of mons like manaphy, thundurus, excadrill, or zardx at all and i think a drop would definitely be justified. i think A- would be a fine home for this mon

B -> B+: maybe
daunt is a threat and a half right now but im starting to have misgivings as this is starting to feel like the whole situation with nidoking (which i still think should be B but whatever) where it was ranked too low initially and then people started to hype it up and it ended up higher than it deserved. i'd rather give this a little time before acting on it; make sure we all feel the same way in a few weeks. i dont really disagree with this i just have the hesitations previously stated

A- -> B+: yes
garde is a p sick wallbreaker for sure but the rise of spdef rachi variants really fucks it over and physical frailty meaning it struggles to come in + susceptibility to being pursuit trapped by stuff like weavile + p bad 4mss makes me think its probably fine dropping to B+.

A- -> B+: no
to me mega latias is one of the better A- megas. its exceedingly splashable, brings great defensive and offensive utility to the table with its cm sets, and is very easy to tailor to what the team necessitates. It checks a billion things and the only real factors holding it back are pursuit and status, both of which can be managed by the rest of the team. its fine where it is. also ffs please stop judging lati off the sucky boltbeam sets

B+ -> B: yes
almost every lati having recover really sucks for manec and so does ttar, exca, amoonguss, etc being everywhere. the increase in scarf lando also kind of sucks with it. you could make an argument based around ppl running more bold clef noawadays but i still think its overall pretty bad.

B+ -> B: yes
basically no reason to use this shitmon. sucks with sand everywhere cutting its recovery and it faces tons of competition from amoonguss which i consider to be more reliable and less mu dependent. venu has a few cool tricks up its sleeve like knock off, as well as better offensive presence than amoong but its always felt underwhelming to me. thick fat isnt that good bc amoonguss handles hp ices from most mons fine while mega manec's fire cvg cant ohko amoong anyways (it just gets spored)

B- -> B: yes
idk why this didnt happen sooner but its a pretty decent mon. i dont really have many compelling arguments in its favor because imo its been good enough to be b for a while now. it brings some useful defensive utility to the table, is an okay defogger (defogs on rachi which is p sweet), and has reliable recovery. it deserves b.

 

[MANNAT]

Just gonna preface this by saying sorry for being an idiot a couple pages back, I was in a terrible mood and should've never responded to that post in the first place, and I hope that you can forgive me. Anyways, since the thread has actually been pretty decent this slate, I might as well post and contribute what I can to the discussion. Also, I'm only gonna talk about stuff that I use since it's stupid to talk about mons that I have no experience with.

to B+: Agree
Crawdaunt is a menace in the metagame right now and it really deserves to rise. First of all, Swords Dance Life Orb Crawdaunt absolutely dismantles stall to a point where it's broken beyond repair. Not only that, but Crawdaunt has amazing offensive synnergy with the Stereotypical VoltTurn+Breaker teams bc those teams hate hazard stacking and Crawdaunt beats Lando-T, Heatran, and Skarm so that they cant set up hazards vs you, which is very valuable, not to mention that it has more than enough power to deter the other hazard stackers that are usually on hazard stack. Additionally, Band is a really solid set that has more immediate power so that you can do better vs offense, since you don't have to setup while retaining your ability to be a huge threat vs bulkier teams, actually doing a tad better vs balance because you can do more damage to like Keld that comes in when you click knock and such.

to B+: Disagree
Alakazam is still really solid and actually can put in work vs a lot of teams right now because of its great speed in conjunction with its great special attack and coverage. People have been running rocks rachi over scarf, and this is good because it's slower than Zam and therefore can't check it if you wear it down. I know that Alakazam is a bit worse than it usually is with birdspam gaining popularity, but offense always has birdspam checks anyways with Lando-T+Rotom-W being staples on offense. Additionally, spikes stacking teams are REALLY good right now, with grounded wallbreakers like Crawdaunt, Medi, and others being popular as well as the increasing usage of VolTturn. Obviously, Zam fits really well on Spikes Stacking teams as an anti-offense mon to deal with threats that are trying to pressure your hazard setters, so while birdspam is a negative metagame trend for Alakazam, there are more than enough positive metagame trends for Alakazam to stay in A-.

to B: Agree
Mane is frankly hot garbage and would be B- or C+ if it were up to me, since Zapdos is way better than it imo, but B rank is fine for now. Every Lati twin in the world runs roost nowadays, and that really sucks for Mane as it can't just volturn around and bust through Lati late-game and now has to have partners eliminate lati for it to clean up offense. One may say that birdspam being good helps ouut Mane, but there's literally no reason to use Mane over Roost+3 attacks Zapdos as a birdspam check on offensive teams since Zapdos has reliable recovery to ensure that it can stay healthy vs the team, and it has good enough typing and bulk to beat scarf Excadrill 1v1, which Mane fails to do on top of not taking up a mega slot. Obviously Mane's solid speed tier and increased power over Zapdos means that it can put in a bit more work vs non-birdspam offense, but the fact that Thundy-I actually has good coverage and Zapdos has reliable recovery+bulk to take on more threats means that Manectric has a hard time suceeding in the current metagame and really needs to drop.

to B: Agree
First off, Defog Zapdos is bad, so no one use the rocks-weak defogger argument against it rising, please. Obviously the increased usage of birdspam recently means that Zapdos is really good bc roost 3 attacks Zapdos practically 6-0s the most common birdspam team by itself, unless they're running stone edge on Pinsir, which isn't really relevant since stone edge isn't even on the moves list for Pinsir in the usage stats. Additionally, Zapdos has a really good matchup vs VoltTurn due to its bulk allowing it to tank hits in conjunction with , being able to eat a stone edge and smack Lando-T with HP Ice, doing a chunk of damage to Rotom-W with discharge/tbolt while being able to roost off the paltry damage that hydro does, eating any hit and roasting Torn-T with tbolt, as well as hard walling Jirachi and taking a chunk out of it with Heat Wave. Not only that, but Zapdos has really good synergy with SR Clef, who is on an insane amount of high-level teams right now and is super valuable since it can get rocks up vs stall, being able to check Steel types like Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor for Clef while Clef can check Weavile, the Lati twins, and Kyu-B for Zapdos. Overall, Zapdos is a really solidly bulky mon that can wall key offensive threats such as Mega Pinsir and Torn-T while also going well with one of the best rockers in the metagame atm.

to B-: Disagree
Klefki is literally the only spiker on offense aside from poor suicide leads, and that is a really valuable niche in itself, but Klefki has many other positives going for it. Klefki has an amazing typing, being able to muscle past the two OU magic bouncers with an offensive set, which is a boon for offensive hazard stacking teams, especially since Sableye and Mega Diancie are running rampant on the ladder. Not only that, but Klefki's useful typing and solid bulk allows it to check important threats like the Lati Twins, (Mega) Alakazam, Torn-t lacking Heat Wave, Weavile, and many other important threats. Not only does Klefki get up spikes for offense and defeat key threats to hazard stacking builds, but it also has prankster Thunder Wave, which is an amazing utility for any offensive team that allows Klefki to stop the sweeps of key setup sweepers such as DD Zardx and TG Manaphy. Overall, Klefki is an amazing mon for offense that defeats the 2 omnipresent magic bounce users for hazard stacking teams and checks some of the most dangerous offensive threats in the tier as having great utility moves in twave and spikes that can come clutch in key situations.

Thanks for reading and I hope that this was a constructive post :]]

 

[false]

I've already touched on a few of the discussion points like Crawdaunt's rise and Mega Latias' drop in my last post, so I'll just touch on the stuff that I haven't spoken about yet.

Volcanion was nommed for a drop to A- a little while back, and I agreed with the initial nom at the time so it's good to see this being revisited. My opinion on Volcanion really hasn't changed much since that time. As I stated before, I predicted Volcanion to eventually land in A- once it started to settle, and that's basically what's happening. Volcanion is nowhere near as restricting on teambuilding as it had appeared to be upon release, with a plethora of viable Water + Fire resists such as Latios, Slowking, Starmie, Rotom-W, Suicune, and even opposing Volcanion giving builders a large number of defensive Pokemon to combat Volcanion, whilst offensive Electric-, Ground-, and Rock-types such as Landorus-T, Garchomp, Thundurus, Terrakion, and Tyranitar are as omnipresent as ever, and can pressure Volcanion offensively. Its Stealth Rock weakness is obviously worth the mention as well when you consider that it possesses no form of recovery outside of Leftovers, and this weakness really goes to undermine Volcanion's pretty impressive mixed bulk, making it seem far less impressive in practice than it would appear in theory. So yeah, I'm good for a drop for this. To piggyback off of the last time I discussed Volcanion. I feel that it's far too ineffective at its job when compared to other Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X, Mega Lopunny, and Excadrill that sit in the A subrank, and Volcanion seems a much better fit in the lower A- subrank alongside Pokemon such as Mega Charizard Y and Bisharp (which are better/as good as Volcanion).

After seeing Mega Gardevoir come off of a WCoP in which it earned the third highest win percentage (69.23%) of any Pokemon used more than 10 times I honestly had to think about this one for a second. I think what it comes down to is the fact that Mega Gardevoir is a very matchup dependent type of Pokemon. If you can hit a good matchup against a balance in which Choice Scarf Jirachi or Heatran is the Mega Gardevoir answer, then you can be in for a good time. However at the same time, if you happen to hit a SpD Jirachi x every Pokemon can revenge kill Mega Gardevoir type of team, then it can be almost useless. It's hard to argue that Mega Gardevoir is quite on the same level as something like Mega Heracross, which it shares the A- subrank with, yet I also believe that Mega Gardevoir is just a step above a number of the B+ rank Pokemon. I think this is a borderline case which comes down to personal preference, and whether you believe Mega Gardevoir is a top tier B+ Pokemon, or a lower tier A- one.
PS. Wisp Mega Garde is far and away its best set right now. The days of Taunt being Mega Gardevoir's best filler have long gone.

This nom is one I'm not so sure about. At first a drop seems ok when you consider that the popularity of Mega Alakazam does appear to have taken a hit recently. However, I'm not sure whether thats a product of Mega Alakazam being a worse Pokemon than it used to be, or whether people just aren't using it enough. Alakazam was used 9 times in the opening round of the recent WCoP for a healthy 55.56 win percentage. It was used only 3 times after round one, however, its only continued to increase, finishing at a vert respectable 58.33% beating out the likes of Mega Lopunny (57.14%) and Tangrowth (58.06%), and rivalling the likes of Mega Diancie (61.54%) and Manaphy (63.16%). I'm not convinced that Alakazam's drop in popularity is because it's not as good any more. I just think people aren't using it. In my opinion, Mega Alakazam is a better Pokemon than the likes of Mega Gyarados and Gengar, whom currently reside in the B+ rank. To be honest, what I think this boils down to is the fact that, very similarly to how I feel about Mega Gardevoir, Mega Alakazam is a top tier B+ Pokemon, or one of the weaker A- ranked Pokemon. I personally think it fits in either, and I guess with the drop of a bunch of the B+ megas, it'd make sense to see Mega Alakazam alongside Pokemon such as Nidoking (although I think Mega Alakazam is better than Nidoking as well). I don't think theres a wrong way to go with this. I'm fine with it staying, I'm fine with it dropping. It's really a borderline case either way.

I seem to rate Mega Manectric a bit higher than most. I'm going to try and keep this one short since fighting for Mega Manectric already seems futile at this point, so many people seem to hate it. Mega Manectric is so so so so so much better than Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Altaria, the only other 2 megas currently sitting in the B subrank. Mega Manectric is literally one of the single best Pokemon that you could ever hope to have in an offense matchup, and I think people seem to forget just how devastating it can be. 135 Speed is insane. Latios is 2HKOed by HP Ice after Stealth Rock, fast Ground-types are OHKOed by HP Ice. Offenses are literally required to pack multiple Manectric checks in order to not be swept from preview. Mega Manectric even has access to Fire coverage to nail Ferrothorn, and Mega Scizor, something that other Electric types can only dream about. Round this out with a fantastic ability in Intimidate, one that perfectly fits with Mega Manectric's identity as an offensive pivot, and you have an excellent offensive Pokemon that deserves better than the current B rank. Yes, Mega Manectric is awful when facing bulkier teams, but the same can be said in reverse for Pokemon such as Crawdaunt which has an overwhelmingly strong matchup when facing bulkier teams, but has far more limited effectiveness when facing offenses, yet is being nominated for the B+ subrank. Mega Manectric's matchup when facing balances certainly isn't as bad as it's made out to be in my opinion. Pokemon such as Clefable, Roost Latios, and Tyranitar are easily taken care of by the appropriate breaker (something like a Breloom, Serperior, or CB Tyranitar), something that one should absolutely be pairing with Mega Manectric if they're attempting to use it. Mega Manectric is not a Pokemon you bring at a whim. Mega Manectric is a highly matchup dependent Pokemon. However, if the matchup is right, I'd be surprised if people could list 5 other Pokemon that they'd prefer to have on their team. I think that this, combined with the fact that I believe that its 'bad' matchup vs balances is overrated is enough to keep it in B+.

Yeah I'm ok with a drop for this. The defensive Pokemon in the B+ rank (Amoonguss, Chansey, Hippowdon, Mew, Suicune) are all, in my opinion just a bit better than Mega Venusaur. I think Mega Venusaur's incompatibility with Sand is one of the main reasons for its downfall. There are really 2 common situations in which one would be looking for a Grass-type to fit on their team; to give the team an offensive Pokemon that can check Water-types, whilst also beating down on Ground-types, or to act as a Water-type sponge for Sand teams. The former role is one better performed by the likes of Breloom and Serperior, whilst the latter role is one better performed by the likes of Tangrowth and Amoonguss. Regenerator is a huge key here, being able to switch out, and remain at a healthy amount of HP is fantastic to conserve momentum for bulky offense style teams, and is something that Mega Venusaur simply can't do. Not only is it forced to recover, but it's often forced to do so in a condition which limits its recovery to only 25% (less than a Regenerator user would earn just from switching out). Mega Venusaur also lacks the ability to hold an item, making it much more easily worn down by passive damage such as Stealth Rock, Sand, and Scald burns. In general I think Mega Venusaur just doesn't quite fit on the teams that require its support, and as such those slots are going to other Pokemon which can better perform the role.

I don't care for Mega Slowbro at all. There seems to be literally always a better option as a CM Water, whether it be Slowking, Suicune, reg Slowbro, even Manaphy I guess. Losing Regenerator literally sucks, and means you lose to so many things. Rotom-W can just come in, burn Slowbro, and then proceed to Volt Switch and Pain Split infinitely until the Slowbro player either: attacks, leaving Slowbro in range of being revenge killed since it's literally so slow that it will always be going second, or just plain runs out of recovery. I could go on, but I think the general consensus is that Mega Slowbro isn't that great so I shouldn't have to go into great detail, I think everyone gets it.

This rise is happening no matter what I say here, but luckily I've always really liked Zapdos and I'm really happy to see it rise. Zapdos has been underrated for ages, and finally all the people who are saying 'I don't like Zapdos because its a Defogger but its weak to Rocks.. lol????' can shut up because OLT is showing everyone just how good of a Pokemon it is. Rotom-W is a shining example of just how good bulky Electric-types can be in OU, providing a rare Flying-resist, whilst also checking a variety of Steel-types, and Rotom-W doesn't even have the reliable recovery, or the Fire-type coverage that Zapdos does.

I'm just going to start of by saying that for someone who loves Spikes as much as I do, I'm genuinely surprised with just how much I dislike Klefki. It seems that just about every Pokemon that it used to be able to check is now running coverage for it. Almost all Latios have HP Fire/Surf which can pressure it, Tornadus-T has Heat Wave, Mega Diancie has Earth Power/HP Fire. Maybe it's just me, but whenever I use Klefki it just ends up just not checking anything it's supposed to, it might get off 1 or 2 Spikes or a Thunder Wave, but I always feel like there'd be a Pokemon that I could better use in that slot. I think some people will use the argument that Klefki is the best Spiker that offense has to offer as a reason for it to stay up, but in return I say, just because its the only Pokemon that can fulfil that role for offense, doesn't make it good at that role. I'm not exactly sure what Klefki is supposed to do best, but whatever it is, I'm not a fan and I'm happy to see it drop.

 

[Gabidou99]

I've already made my point before about Garde dropping to B+ like 2 weeks ago or so and we decided to not drop Mega Garde because there was no strong arguments for it. I still don't think Garde should drops to B+, however if we're making B-rank stuff drops too then it might be reasonable.

A- -> B+: yes
garde is a p sick wallbreaker for sure but the rise of spdef rachi variants really fucks it over and physical frailty meaning it struggles to come in + susceptibility to being pursuit trapped by stuff like weavile + p bad 4mss makes me think its probably fine dropping to B+.

It often struggles to switches in indeed (everyone knows this), but that's the same for a ton of offensive attackers, they struggles to switches into Hyper Voice and can get burned if you get the Wisp read. Gardevoir has a lot of options for 4th moveslot such as Taunt and Wisp, but that really doesn't mean it has 4MSS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember right 4MSS is about a mon that need five or more moves to function well, and Mega Gardevoir functions very well without five or more moves, it just has a lot of options. I'm also pretty sure that everyone does knows that its low defense forces it to take a ton of damage from pursuit, that's not very convincing to me.

I feel like you're only looking the negatives. Gardevoir has many positives such as but not limited to pixelate hyper voice, wallbreaking and having access to useful moves like Will-o-wisp and Taunt and it's why I think it shouldn't drop, but if Garde dropped, it wouldn't be for the reasons you made outside of Spdef Jirachi.

 

[kek123]

Volcanion drop to -A agreed
ye agreed-ed I use to think otherwise but this mon really imo feels inferior to keldeo yes it stuff over keldeo but rocks weakness and bad speed tier is a massive down side especially with rocks being so hard to get rid RN imo since meta is so offensive along with the rise of clef rocks.

Crawdaunt to B+ Natural
the team in witch craw can be used on are so limit it best on offence but I need something like Volt-turn or very good double to get it in . Yes it destructive power it amazing but it but it just feel a bit meh that to its less then optimal defence and being switch in on keldeo is problematic along with being out speed by alot of wall meaing you often have to predict the wall switching in which is something other wall breaker don't have to do a bit over rated imo .But im natural because it destructive like it said is amazing and work amazingly on thing like Dark spam.

Mega Gard drop to B+ Disagree
This thing has next to none switch in I've seen HP fire for scizor wilo wisp as well the only real switch in to this thing imo is defensive Rachi and mega metagross but it can only do so once or twice taunt set can deal with skarmory and klefki is so rare now

Mega latias Drop to B+ meh?
I personally see not use in this mon at all imo it waste of a mega I when it see on team preview I think that could of been a normal latios and then replaced another mon with a Mega but tbh I no longer care what happens to this mon I just want to stop discussing it so keep there for all I care any more xD

Mega Alakazam Drop to B+ Agree
With mega scizor chople T-tar and Rachi spreading like the plague this mon just feel so hard to use, ye drop it!

Mega mane Drop to B Agree
this mon damage is super underwhelming and I feel fast Volt switch mons are out of favour right now the only good elec mons RN it thundy and Rotom

Mega Venu Drop to B Agree
I feel like Amoogus just is better than vena having spore clear smog and Regenrator and thing like azu that it hard counter are just not as common in the meta RN

Mega Slowbro Drop to B Idk?
I haven't seen or played this thing in ages or I dont thing Ive ever even bothered making a team around it but given I haven't seen it in ages it probably due a drop

Zapdos Rise to B Disagree
Personally I much rather more often than not use Rotom-w over this ye sure it has niches over rotom-w but Rotom-w has so much over it also I find having a defoger weak to rocks to be stupid and because it this it defogging it rather unreliable I can spread status like Rotom-w or gain momentum it has defog which is okay but like I said isnt great paired with rocks weakness it better than Rotom-w on some stall/semi stall team but I really don't thing that a valid reason for it to be B rank

Klefki Drop to B- Agree
Although the though of Priority thunder wave gives me nightmares I feel like there are much better spikes setter in the tier and other than thunder wave and spikes it does little to nothing has it attacking stat are average at best.

 

[HappyHoopa05]

Volcanion drop to A-
Crawdaunt rise to B+
Mega Gardevoir drop to B+
Mega Latias drop to B+
Mega Alakazam drop to B+
Mega Manectric drop to B
Mega Venusaur drop to B
Mega Slowbro drop to B
Zapdos rise to B
Klefki drop to B-

Volcanion: Agree
Volcanion hype is over and its usage has climbed down. I think A- is perfect since it's weak as a B rank but isn't in the same level as the other S-A ranks.

Crawdaunt: Agree
Among all Rank B, Crawdaunt really deserves the spotlight, having dark type, combined with adaptability and respectable attack, it can hit really, really hard.

Mega Gardevoir: Disagree
Imo, Gardevoir is debatebly the strongest Fairy type when we talk about Damage, Of course, most people prefer using other Megas like Zard X or Cham, but Gardevoir's potential is far beyond Rank B, being able to destroy or at very least, severely weaken certain pokemons, that leaves a hole to pokemons Like Talonflame finish the clean.

Mega Latias: Agree
Let's be honest, Mega Latias is part of the group of megas that it's more worthy using their base form then using the mega version. But i don't think we need to underestimate the potential that lies on her.

Mega Alakazam: Agree
Mega Alakazam can hit very hard, but in the current metagame, i don't think he is so strong, not when Dark-Types caring Pursuit and Sucker Punch are running wild and megas Like Diancie, Medicham and Zard X are ''monopolizing'' the mega slot.

Mega Manectric: Undecided
I don't use Manectric since XY metagame, so i can't tell with 100% sure that he deserves the drop. But as far as i know, Mega Manectric can really hurt walls, and having one of the best Speed tiers combining with a decent movepool and SpA, He may not deserve B, but as I said, i can't opine about that.

Mega Venusaur: Agree
Mega Venusaur can't even stand aside to the other Megas that are in the A+ - B+ ranks, He can be a decent wall thanks leech seed, decent typing and great bulk, but in the current meta, Venusaur isn't viable in most teams, Since Offense prefers to use Zards, Diancie, Medicham, Scizor, while Stall appreciates Mega Sableye more then Venusaur.

Mega Slowbro: Neutral
I've never used Mega-Bro after the ORAS new megas Hype, But as I said in Mega-Saur, Slowbro doesn't fit well in many teams, since more Offensive prefer powerful mons while stall prefers Sableye. Also Strong Offensive Dark types becoming a dominating force in ORAS OU, Slowbro can have a hard time to set up Calm Mind. But i think we can't underestimate his power, since he is a massive wall after set-uping calm mind that can give a real pain to your opponent.

Zapdos: Agree
I agree and i think he deserves even more. Zapdos has showing to be a really good checker to many threats that have been dominating the current metagame or at least trying to.

Klefki: Neutral
I'vent used much this pokemon, So i can't give a solid opinion, but i think it isn't a real threat in the current metagame, even so, he can give a good to certain teams, So i think he deserves some credit.

 

[Gary]

God man I just don't understand how you can even put Volcanion on the same level as some of the biggest Pokemon in OU such as Weavile, Mega Medi, and Ferrothorn. I've already made a huge ass post about it so I'm not going to go into detail again, it still has loads of other problems that keeps it from being in A rank. Because of how hard it is to switch into and how it can heavily punish a lot of fat builds that depend on Keldeo checks to deal with it, it's still a very solid Pokemon and that fits perfectly in A- IMO especially if we drop a lot of the other shit.

Crawdaunt is complete flames idk why its sat so long in B- with ass mons. It's one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into in the tier because practically nothing resists that STAB combo outside of Keldeo which is 2HKOed. CB is so strong and 2HKOes everything, and strong priority makes it a great cleaner/revenge killer late game. SD is cool too because you can change up moves and completely dismantle fat team, even stuff like Amoonguss is dropping to a +2 Knock Off, in fact pretty much every fat Grass-type in the tier can't reliably take it on. I like it because while it may struggle versus more offensive teams, its priority is strong enough where it can still threaten shit out and they have to be wary about letting their mons getting too low or else they'll get swept by Jet. It just has a pretty good matchup against most common playstyles in the tier which separates it from other breakers. The biggest issues with it is its fragility and it's not that easy to fit onto a team like Weavile or even Bish, but it's so worth it if you can manage.

Mega Gard is strong but it's definitely not on par with Mega Meta and Pinsir. Its checks are very prevalent and it depends so much on Wisp to deal with most of them which isn't that hard to play around. I think B+ is a great place for it. Mega Zam is such a dangerous Pokemon but the meta has adapted to it quite well, and it doesn't help when Mega Scizor/Sableye garbage is everywhere and Pursuit Mega Meta is pretty common, and then of course you also have Chople T-tar and a shit ton of priority flying around. I feel like it's better overall than most of the things in B+ but it's just not on par with most of the stuff in A-, so I'd rather drop it.

Mega Manec, Mega Bro, and Venu all need to drop, although I'd say bro is the stronger out of the three. Manec has good matchups but half the time it can't do anything. Scarf Lando-T is so popular and Exca is still prevalent as well, and then you just have other stuff that gives it trouble such as Heatran, T-tar, and ofc its completely boned by any stall team. Mega Venu isn't strong enough to force many switches, and on top of that its so easy to wear down because of Sand nerfing Synthesis and it's not even good at checking Keldeo because of Scald burns. Mega Bro is scary but it's so hard to justify using it over another mega or one of the other Bros, and as a late game win con it's very susceptible to status so it cant even abuse Regen early game safely because it risks being hit by stray Toxics, Scald burns, or Wisps.

Zapdos is great right now because it checks a lot of Pokemon that are trending, such as Mega Pinsir, Sciz, Crawdaunt, Exca, and Torn-T. I don't really like it as a Defogger, but as a fat physical or special wall with HP Ice or Toxic it just sits there and stalls out everything. No comment on Klefki, I don't think it's that bad but I don't really think it's good either. I think B is fine for it though just because of how annoying it can be and its defensive typing is still good. You all know how I feel about Mega Latias I still think it's complete ass but wont go on another rant about that.

 

[Rcook]

I think Mega Gard should drop because Zard Y outclasses (for obvious reasons) and it is weaker then a lot of the A- megas, but then a lot of Megas like Mega Venu and Mega Manetric will drop which is a change that needed to happen for awhile now, and Mega Bro could see a drop but only if Mega Latias drops to B+ (which a don't agree with) but otherwise could stay in B+.

Mega Zam has a lot of the same problems that Mega Gard sees so it can drop as well.

Concerning the Klefki drop I am against it because Klefki is great for stall and balance and has a nice enough niche to stay in B, as it causes problem for Hyper Offensive teams and can stop momentum, but I see why it could drop (Talonflame/Heatran)

Mega Latias is a great Mega as it can be an offensive mon while also being defensive, which a great ability to have. In my opinion it does match up Mega Gross and Mega Pinsir because it gets such versatility and can punish a lot of mons at the same time. It makes for a great Balance/Semi Stall mon but since the Meta is Bulky Offense right now it can't find it's place on a lot of teams as it isn't great on that team.

Crawdaunt should see a rise b/c it can wreck teams as very few mons that can switch into it and it doesn't take the Mega slot for being a great wallbreaker and B is a great place for it because of it's flaws such as it's speed and grass/fighting weakness.

Zapdos could see a rise because it does check so many common pokemon (Talon/Mega Pinsir/Scizor/Exca/Dawnt/Torn-T) and can defog without it taking a moveslot but it lacks flying moves so it could stay but I would prefer it to move up.

Mega Venu/Manetric all are bad because of the Meta right now, they all have common checks in the tier (Talon/Exca) and B rank is the best place because they all have nice niches that make them not unusable just hard to use.

Volcanion dropping to A- is something that needs to happen because the mons in A affect the meta that Volcanion doesn't do

Mega Bro can stay in B+ because it is a calm mind user with recovery and if Mega Latias drops it will outclass and that it is the only way it can drop, but those high defensive stats make it great in the tier and Shell Armor stop it from losing after setting up.

 

[Hilomilo]

Why did discussion on the drops of rain mons come to a sudden stop? Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think there was any opposition towards the drops of Kabutops, Politoed and Kingdra and a lot of support. Rain is without a doubt one of the most matchup reliant play styles seen in ou, and the kinds of match ups rain teams desire are now less prevalent.
Politoed's single shred of viability comes from its ability to automatically set up rain, but since it's reduced to holding a damp rock, it can't put its defensive capabilities to good use since it has to use rest to recover and doesn't have leftovers.

Kabutops is an excuse for a spinner and can really only do damage to teams that aren't HO after a swords dance boost, which is hard to do considering its horrid defensive typing against prevalent threats in Rotom-W, Keldeo and even Tangrowth.

Kingdra simply doesn't have enough firepower to be able to apply offensive pressure without using choice specs or band, and being a dragon type locked onto a move that isn't iron head doesn't give you a very good matchup against Clefable or Mega Gardevoir.

Overall, the mons mentioned above are just really reliant on HO or a lack of a water resist on the opposing team to make much of an impact, and can not at all be compared to the mons that share a rank with them in Dragonite, Breloom and Crawdaunt. Oh, and let's not forget that with sand being everywhere, TTar or Hippo can just come in on a rain sweeper and destroy their chance of making too huge an impact. Please drop rain mons or at least include them in the next ranking slate.

 

[pikacu221]

Ok ive finally gotten over of my fear of posting here i hope i dont break any rules *crosses fingers*

Volcanion drop to A-
Agree: I love volcanion a lot, and I feel it is quite good. However, I still believe that A- is an accurate placement for it. I feel that its stealth rocks weakness really hinders it, as it cant switch into as many attacks as it would like to. Also, thanks to this weakness it mandates rapid spin or defog support otherwise you are far better off using another wall breaker. Not only that, but having an annoying weakness to earthquake, volt switch, and other common moves means that it (usually) has to switch out after a kill. Having checks to a lot of common pokemon like latios, rotom, and landorus doesn't really help its case either. To make this all even worse, it has a below average speed tier that can easily be taken advantage. Despite this, I still believe that it is pretty good, as steam eruption is stupidly powerful, and it can put a lot of pressure on teams as well as check common threats like heatran and specs keldeo locked onto a water move. It also holds its place as being one of the most powerful wall breakers in ou so theres that. As such, i believe that A- is the ranking for it.

Crawdaunt rise to B+
Neutral: I dont really use this, and havent played it a whole lot either. It's definitely very strong though, and a stab priority helps its low speed. I could see a rise for this.

Mega Gardevoir drop to B+
Neutral: Again, it's the same as the above. Although i do lean a bit towards drop as I feel diancie does a job of an offensive fairy better. But then again, mega gard is super strong and hits harder than diancie.

Mega Latias drop to B+
Not gonna really bother with this one, but if stuff like volcanion drops to A- and stuff rises to B+ then it should probably drop too.

Mega Alakazam drop to B+
Agree: Unfortunately, M-alakazam is a lot worse in this meta. HO isn't really as big anymore, and it's still really frail. I honestly believe that there are a lot better megas in OU, and mega alakazam suffers a lot in this meta. Being very vulnerable to pursuit and priority is also really bad for this, as they are very common in the meta. Also, mono psychic typing is really bad offensively and defensively. To make it even worse, the loss of magic guard hurts it even more, leaving it vulnerable to toxic and sand damage. Drop this thing.

Mega Manectric drop to B
Strongly Agree: Mane is REALLY bad tbh. Every time i play one, it's really underwhelming. sure, 135 Base speed is nice, and intimidate and volt switch are nice to have. However, it isnt terribly strong, and the prevalence of sand extremely hinders it. To make it even worse, its pretty vulnerable to pursuit trapping, as stuff like scarf/band tar can take advantage of its volt switch, while taking very little. Due fact that its checks are everywhere (Scarf landorus t, clefable, latios, and other scarf mons), it becomes even harder to use effectively. Also, mane faces a lot of competition from m-lop, who has the same speed tier, better offensive stats, and even perfect coverage in its stab moves. Honestly I wouldn't even mind if this was B-. Drop this please.

Mega Venusaur drop to B
Agree: Mega venusaur is also in a similar prediciment to mane, though not as bad. Thanks to the way synthesis works and the huge prevelence of sand, it gets worn down very easily. While it has a neat defensive typing and good attacking stats, it faces stiff competition from other megas. Also, its offensive stats aren't that great when you see its stab combination, leaving it walled by steels (although it somewhat gets past this with HP fire). My point is, is that in the current meta, using mega venusaur comes with quite a bit of opportunity cost and an annoying recovery option thanks to sand, making it very unfavorable to use. I am subject to change on this one though, as it does have a few things going for it. Like, it has a lot of bulk, and is definitely bulkier than amoongus. Again, i'm sort of on the fence for this one, but i mostly agree.

Mega Slowbro drop to B
Neutral about this one. it seems to be a bit outclassed by suicune as a water type calm mind user, and loss of regenerator hurts it too. It does have a very high defensive stat, and can be difficult to break through though.

Zapdos rise to B
This thing is actually decent (surprising). It can check quite a few notable threats like M-scizor, ferrothorn, and other things (my mind just went blank but there are also quite a few more threats it can check and counter). Also, i feel that the defog argument is not a great one, as defog is pretty garbage on zapdos. I could see a rise, but no higher than B.

Klefki drop to B-
Disagree: Why are people actually considering this? It is actually super annoying to face, thanks to prankster and a plethora of support moves. Seriously, it can pretty much get past a good portion of its checks thanks to prankster t-wave/toxic/magnet rise. Also, thanks to its typing, it is a fantastic check to lati@s (most run recover instead of HP fire which helps it more) as well as magnet rise to get past landorus-t and other offensive ground types. It is also probably the only viable spikes setter in the meta thanks to its great typing and movepool+prankster. It can easily come in on something and either paralyze/toxic it or whatever switches in. I mean, obviously it has its fair share of problems (namely its only average bulk thanks to Hp stat, and its lack of reliable recovery outside of leftovers) but i feel that B- would be simply far too low for klefki. Keep it in B.

 

[kingmickey27]

Hi. idk if im missing something but i have no idea why megas are being compared with each other when the only thing they have in common is the fact that they use a mega stone...

Mega Venusaur to B
Only valid comparison is with Amoonguss imo. Mega Venusaur has exactly two things above its competitor: better offenses and better bulk. But this doesn't mean much at all in the current metagame. Synthesis having limited PP and being weakened in the sand and having no leftovers really sucks for it and as a result it's prone to getting worn down easily whether its by Scald burns (from the waters it should theoretically be checking), hazards or sand damage. Amoonguss has Regenerator to fix these issues so it's better suited to the role of bulky grass type until the meta shifts against sand.

Mega Slowbro to B
If it gets hit by Toxic, it's useless. Many CM wincons like Suicune, Clefable, and Reuniclus have some way to not be too bothered by status (Rest or Magic Guard), so it can just sit around and get enough boosts to win. Mega Slowbro doesn't have that luxury and so it can't play at all like regular Slowbro instead having to be really careful when trying to pivot into things like regular Slowbro can.


Don't have enough experience on Crawdaunt to have a say, but there's a certain charm and satisfaction to watching bulky builds fall to it :3

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Volcanion drop to A-
Yeah, drop it. Every team has a water on their squad and almost every team has a lati. This i think is volcanions biggest issue atm. Well that, and sr weakness and limited switchin opportunities (stop hardswitching into my keld, geez, im not blind)

Mega Gardevoir drop to B+
Myeah drop. This mons biggest issue is just HOW crazy mad its matchup reliance actually is. If the opponent has a counter and a fast check, it is baIcally death fodder tbh. On the lopside, if the opponent is bulky balance without a spdef rachi, it just wins. I think such matchup reliance can push it down.

Mega Manectric drop to B
I can see this yea. Its in a bad spot atm, with an overabundance on latis, scarf lando exists again, its a terribad birdspam check.. myeah, atleast theres no hippos, amiright?

Mega Venusaur drop to B
Why would i ever use this atm? Its a bulky tankmon, but its attacks are meh and the coverage is bad, and its survivability is garbage with all the sand running around.

Zapdos rise to B
Ya, roost+3 attacks zapdos is åretty darn good atm. Like one of the best birdspam checks atm. Elec+fly is a rly good defensive typing atm.

Klefki drop to B-
Ive already said what i think about it, but ye i disagree with this. A rly good def typing as well as a large toolbox allows to help out ur squad depending on what u need it for. Personally tho i think dazzgleam+spikes+ttwave+toxic/cannon is the best build for it. Stop using magnet rise jeez.

Beyond that, i see the argume.ts for its drop as well (specs latios has coverage for it, any groundtype ever switches in like driller, its passive as fuck) but tbf i think these flaws are why its b still.

 

[Vert]

the only difference right now and a few months ago with m-alakazam is usage. if you are using dazzling gleam, you are better off using regular because it doesn't occupy a mega slot and hits much harder. the reason to use this thing is the calm mind set combined with its blistering speed allowing it to completely obliterate bulky offense. along with this, you have trace which is a stupidly good ability most commonly tracing water absorb, sand rush, flash fire, and even regenerator. take into account good wcop win rate and the fact that some of the more solid early-mid oras builds used m-alakazam, i can tell you this thing is still as effective as ever.

the problem with m-slowbro is how much status there is right now. burn means it has to heal up repeatedly meaning it cannot get enough boosts to sweep or have enough slack off pp to complete one. toxic means you can't sweep to begin with. choice band tyranitar and thunderbolt latios have risen like crazy which put a severe dent in m-slowbro's capabilities.

manectric should stay where it is tbh. i'm not going to comment on anything else because i don't use them enough to have an opinion so not gonna bother theorymoning out of my ass.

 

[Wob]

Mega Gardevoir drop to B+
Disagree: Pixilate Hyper Voice hits incredibly hard and can easily OHKO Latios and Latias, Garchomp, Mega Charizard X and many other Pokemon. It also has access to Calm Mind which can turn it into an amazing sweeper.

Mega Venusaur drop to B
Agreed: No idea why anyone would want to use Mega Venusaur over Amoonguss at the moment. Although it has better stats, it's moves and coverage are pretty terrible and it lacks any form of reliable recovery (it has synthesis, but that won't do much good in the sandstorms which are extremely common in the meta right now). Amoonguss has access to regenerator, which makes it a far better tank. Also, Mega Venusaur finds itself absolutely destroyed by so many of the popular Pokemon in OU at the moment, such as Weavile, Kyurem-B and Talonflame.

Klefki drop to B-
Disagree: No way, Prankster Klefki with thunder wave or toxic and maybe spikes can be so annoying at times. It's only real checks are Magic Guard and Magic Bounce users, and Clefable, Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye are about the only ones used commonly in OU.

 

[LimaBean]

I think Mega Gard should drop because Zard Y outclasses (for obvious reasons) and it is weaker then a lot of the A- megas, but then a lot of Megas like Mega Venu and Mega Manetric will drop which is a change that needed to happen for awhile now, and Mega Bro could see a drop but only if Mega Latias drops to B+ (which a don't agree with) but otherwise could stay in B+.

Mega Zam has a lot of the same problems that Mega Gard sees so it can drop as well.

Concerning the Klefki drop I am against it because Klefki is great for stall and balance and has a nice enough niche to stay in B, as it causes problem for Hyper Offensive teams and can stop momentum, but I see why it could drop (Talonflame/Heatran)

Mega Latias is a great Mega as it can be an offensive mon while also being defensive, which a great ability to have. In my opinion it does match up Mega Gross and Mega Pinsir because it gets such versatility and can punish a lot of mons at the same time. It makes for a great Balance/Semi Stall mon but since the Meta is Bulky Offense right now it can't find it's place on a lot of teams as it isn't great on that team.

Crawdaunt should see a rise b/c it can wreck teams as very few mons that can switch into it and it doesn't take the Mega slot for being a great wallbreaker and B is a great place for it because of it's flaws such as it's speed and grass/fighting weakness.

Zapdos could see a rise because it does check so many common pokemon (Talon/Mega Pinsir/Scizor/Exca/Dawnt/Torn-T) and can defog without it taking a moveslot but it lacks flying moves so it could stay but I would prefer it to move up.

Mega Venu/Manetric all are bad because of the Meta right now, they all have common checks in the tier (Talon/Exca) and B rank is the best place because they all have nice niches that make them not unusable just hard to use.

Volcanion dropping to A- is something that needs to happen because the mons in A affect the meta that Volcanion doesn't do

Mega Bro can stay in B+ because it is a calm mind user with recovery and if Mega Latias drops it will outclass and that it is the only way it can drop, but those high defensive stats make it great in the tier and Shell Armor stop it from losing after setting up.

This post by this user I don't necessarily agree with. Zard Y doesn't outclass Mega Gard. They are both wallbreakers but they have both pros and cons. I'd even argue Char Y requires more team support than Mega Gard (I see more diversity in Gard teams than Char teams). Re-gardvoir-less both are nice wallbreakers. Imo many people don't know how to effectively use Mega Zam. I believe that is its main problem. I don't think it should drop but that's my opinion.

 

[lightninging]

MegaZam should not drop guys!!! CM megazam makes BO teams cry in their sleep, and it's gotta other fun options like encore, dazzling gleam (although yah Reg zam is better usually), etc. plus, I love dunking on amoonguss, I hate that mon.

coincidentally, megavenu is mostly outclassed by amoon. not taking up a megaspot is such a huge plus. regenerator+black sludge=never ending passive recovery. spore is also nice.

lastly, crawdaunt should def move up, b+ sounds good to me. after a SD, nothing is tanking a hit. hell, +2 knock KOs tangrowth and amoon. CB is prolly even better, as crabhammer hits even resists ridiculously hard. however, being hella slow isn't really a good thing, and neither is a lack of bulk. it's tough to just slap on a crawdaunt, which is what keeps it outta A-. somewhere low in B+ sounds good imo

 

[XanTheMan]

Volcanion drop to A- : Agree - Its speed and typing leaves it vulnerable to the many common attacking types in the tier, including a weakness to stealth rock and being to prone to all other forms of hazards. Also while its STAB typing coupled with the decent moves it has access to, Steam Eruption being the best thing it has going for it, most teams pack a lati twin as well as a water type making it a threat dealt with in common team archetypes. Furthermore, while its Choice sets, mainly Choice Specs, are hard to deal with, locking yourself into one move is especially detrimental with this Pokemon due to the common trends in the metagame.

Crawdaunt rise to B+: Agree - When this thing was OU I begged for it to drop, and thankfully it did. As the meatagame progressed, naturally, new trends formed which allowed crawdaunt to shine e.g Latios + Lando as a defensive/offensive/pivoting core which crawdaunt tears through. On top of that the amount of pressure it puts on Pokemon like Keldeo and Scizor make it a great team supporter. I also am one to put it in the same camp as nidoking, the bulky offense destroyer (My favourite playstyle), in that sense.
Mega Gardevoir drop to B: Neutral - A pokemon who I personally don't like, this was a tough decision for me. On one hand you have a pokemon who puts a vast amount of pressure most playstyles due to its wallbreaking capabilities;has many utility options and interesting tricks; and has a solid typing. And on the other you have a pokemon who sits in an average but crowded speed tier, meaning it is easily revenge killed; is walled by the omni-present steel type outside of focus miss; and needs quite a bit of team support to function effectively. I don't really use it too much, especially outside of a sand team, and the times i run into it is using a gimmicky fourth move slot such as thunder wave. In the team builder it looks as if every team is weak to Mega Gardevoir, which is not false, but that doesn't mean it can't be beaten.
Mega Latias drop to B+: Disagree - Ok this one might trigger a few people. I feel as if Mega latias is a an EXTREMELY underrated pokemon. We all know how latios is such an easy pokemon to fit onto teams and I feel this pokemon is just a bulkier more supportive pokemon. That's is what people don't give it credit for: The amount of support it provides a team. Sure it is a one-dimensional pokemon and sure it limits use of other Mons but not many pokemon can support a team as well as it can. Thunder wave aids mons like clefable who want Steels crippled; it walls a chunk of the meta; can act as a secondary check for pokemon who dislike being pressured. I have been using this mon a lot recently especially on hazard-stacking balance/semi-stall and while in some cases it can be dead weight, in others it will be the thing you switch in on every attack.
Mega Alakazam drop to B+: Agree - Not much to say other than good offensive prowess; can perform many offensive roles; and pressures unprepared teams. But the metagame has grown to the point where pure offense and speed don't win you the match.

Mega Manectric drop to B: Agree - Same as above but worse honestly.

Mega Venusaur drop to B: Agree - What has the world come to? Once seen as a meta game defining threat and has now retired for other megas to shine. I feel that Venu is a good pokemon but not in the current environment where megas are the generals of this generation and being limited to one per team just makes Venusaur that pokemon who won't be needed because others can do its job while freeing up a mega slot.
Mega Slowbro drop to B: Agree - Don't really see this mon at all any more. Is the same case as above but in this case it is outcalssed by its non-mega counterpart as they both have the same strengths and weaknesses but one allows another pokemon to mega evolve and the other doesn't.

Zapdos rise to B: I don't care - I will just copy everyone else since I literally have not used this mon since it came back. It checks many prominent threats and its offensive set is that bad I guess. Oh and stall is a thing...

Klefki drop to B-: Disagree - It has been gaining slightly more popularity as of late as it is the only relevant spiker on offense in the tier as well as the fact prankster #1 move in the game is annoying. It checks many common things but is also prone to a lot of them. It has only average bulk and gives some pokemon a lot of opportunities to do things. It does have a few niches but the main reason I disagree is because of the aforementioned non-existence of good spikers in this tier (On Offense).

 

[Bice]

Klefki drop to B-: Disagree - It has been gaining slightly more popularity as of late as it is the only relevant spiker in the tier as well as the fact prankster #1 move in the game is annoying. It checks many common things but is also prone to a lot of them. It has only average bulk and gives some pokemon a lot of opportunities to do things. It does have a few niches but the main reason I disagree is because of the aforementioned non-existence of good spikers in this tier.

While more commonly seen using Stealth Rock, it looks like you have forgotten that Ferrothorn learns Spikes as well.
edit: tfw I forgot Skarmory as well

And now, time for some probably shitty opinions.

A- ---> B+: Neutral
The only reason why I'm not leaving a 'mon that I feel neutral about is because my opinion has changed on this particular mega. I used to think that the thing shouldn't drop, but after reading some arguments as to why it should drop, I no longer have any strong feelings about it. I definitely feel that Mega Latias has worsened with the recent trends, but on the other hand it's still a relatively solid mega. It's not like B+ is a bad rank, either. On the other hand, I don't really feel comfortable with regular Latias being in the same rank as it, but w/e.

B+ ---> B: Agree
Yeah, any Electric-type not named Thundurus-Incarnate or Zapdos is pretty bad in the current meta. Despite its blistering speed, it's just not powerful enough in a sand-filled meta. Tyranitar, arguable one of its number-one enemies, is super common right now. The Lati twins being on just about every team definitely does not help matters either. It's just way too weak right now, so just drop it I guess.

B+ ---> B: Agree
Oh, how times change. Once considered a top OU threat, it's now considered outclassed by a stupid looking mushroom. Personal distaste for Amoonguss's design aside, I think that, with the advent of Amoonguss's viability being realized, Venusaur has definitely gotten worse. Amoonguss can do just about everything Mega Venu can do without taking up a mega slot (and with a 100% accurate Spore to boot), and the rise of sandstorm hurts it due to the fact that Synthesis only recovers 25% of your health in said weather, whereas Amoonguss can recover health simply via switching out.

A ---> A-: Agree
Now that the Volcanion hype has died down and we know what checks/counters it, I think we can all agree that this thing should drop. While it has a good typing both offensively and defensively, it comes with a nasty weakness to Stealth Rock. As with Mega Manectric, Latias and Latios being on a majority of teams hurts it. Most Water-types (read: the type that it's supposed to check) can play around it through their coverage/secondary STAB attacks, and it's just too slow. IMO I don't think it should drop further because Steam Eruption really hurts and it's also a decent Water Absorb user but A is just way too high for it.

 

[ceal]

Klefki drop to B-: Disagree - It has been gaining slightly more popularity as of late as it is the only relevant spiker in the tier as well as the fact prankster #1 move in the game is annoying. It checks many common things but is also prone to a lot of them. It has only average bulk and gives some pokemon a lot of opportunities to do things. It does have a few niches but the main reason I disagree is because of the aforementioned non-existence of good spikers in this tier.

I said before i don't really have an opinion on Klefki dropping but to say it's "the only relevant spiker" is pretty disingenuous since Ferro and Skarm can run spikes and, thanks to their overall better stats and sustainability than Klefki, can arguably do it better. Klefki obviously has a niche in priority spikes and can do spikes offense better but saying its the best spiker is an overstatement IMO.

 

[Martin]

Klefki is the only spiker that works on more heavily offensive builds aside from a handful of weird/niche suicide leads that don't lay vs. sab that consistently and are usually pretty bad (see: Custap Forry/Skarm, Frosslass, Scolipede, non-Shell Smash Omastar etc.) to the point where it's safe to say that it's the only relevant HO spiker, which is why it's ranked where it is in the first place imo 'cause it's not all that bulky for it to be ranked for exemplary checking ability or anything like that. This is because of a couple of neat utilities that it has (priority T-wave and 4th move of choice (Metal Sound, Toxic, Heal Block, Fairy Lock etc. (Magnet Rise is bad and should die in a hole as it loses to any good offensive Ground-type barring Scarf Lando anyway)). The question here is are these perks all that valuable in the current meta? Quite honestly, I can't say that they are. Probably the only good/in-date Klefki build that I've got in my teambuilder is one Zard-X+Star team, and quite frankly all other attempts I've made to integrate Klefki into a build have just ended up with me either dumping the team all together or me swapping out Klefki for a Steel-type with stats which aren't as crap as pre-mega Sableye's. Klef lacks any form of recovery beyond Lefties or I guess Sitrus Berry on certain builds (not that good anymore tho outside of a small handful of HO squads). Spikes HO is in a bit of a weird spot, as normally when I run spikes on a build it is either BO (which can normally fit Ferrothorn with no repercussions, which is nice as it has the bulk+Leech Seed so that it can lay spikes repeatedly with consistency) or balance (which I'm mostly ass at building, but when I get a reasonably consistent build it will carry Skarm or Ferro but never Klefki) so that you get more than one opportunity to spike up per match. To put Klefki on it's current level simply isn't representative of current meta trends at all, because the types of builds that you'd use it on are really hard to make work at this point.

Also, while not necessarily linking well to the current discusion (only bringing it up because I saw Viridi mention SR Ferro), fwiw I don't think that SR Ferro is good; it pairs with so many good SR users (Heatran, Lando-T etc.) that it feels like a complete waste of a moveslot which could be used better on Spikes or other utility if you really want to run T-wave+2 atks or smth (not that I'd ever run Ferro off of spikes teams). It's kinda in a similar spot MR Klefki except that it's not outright bad like MR Klef is.

 

[SJCrew]

the only difference right now and a few months ago with m-alakazam is usage. if you are using dazzling gleam, you are better off using regular because it doesn't occupy a mega slot and hits much harder. the reason to use this thing is the calm mind set combined with its blistering speed allowing it to completely obliterate bulky offense. along with this, you have trace which is a stupidly good ability most commonly tracing water absorb, sand rush, flash fire, and even regenerator. take into account good wcop win rate and the fact that some of the more solid early-mid oras builds used m-alakazam, i can tell you this thing is still as effective as ever.

I, too, got to thinking about the decreased usage of Mega Zam and overall drop in its ranking over the past few months, and I do think there are some legitimate reasons for its drastic drop in usage.

For one, we have at least three omnipresent U-turn users in the meta that force Zam out, such as Scarf Lando, AV Torn-T, and Mega Scizor, and those three alone are only going up in usage by the day. Then you have to consider its questionable match-up against stall, where it has a better chance of just getting blocked by Chansey + M-Sab than it does making the predictions necessary to beat them (and this is assuming it's running Dazzling Gleam, otherwise, it's not doing anything). Bird Spam, which is getting popular again, just wails on it, and it's also symptomatic of the bigger issue that offense is trending away from the types of teams that Zam used to wail on into teams that pressure Zam instead.

Zam still has good match-ups in this meta and considerable lategame presence, but it's still not putting in the consistent amount of work needed to justify its Mega slot over the upper echelon.

 

[Glue]

After playing with crawdaunt I can say I'm very impressed how it worked out, it is ridiculously strong and so powerful it manges to 2HKO keldeo now we all know keldeo is a bulky pokemon not the most defensive, but now and then it can tank a hit and pokemon that abuses dark type moves hates keldeo but crawdaunt just demolish it and only takes 2 hits to actually kill the water horse, it destroys most stall teams which is always great and honestly the only pokemon with actual usage like tangrowth walls it and pokemon with little to no usage like mega altaria and chesnaught walls it but mega altaria has to be bulky to tank from crawdaunt and chesnaught is pretty bad in ou and at best chesnaught is mehh so yeah countering crawdaunt is a pain the ass so I really recommend moving crawdaunt to B+ It may be frail, might be slow and will be needing pokemon to support crawdaunt to do well but when built correctly crawdaunt is a force to be reckoned with.

 

[green gadgets]

A --->A+
Weavile is a god right now. Icicle Crash + Low Kick are good metacalls right now, Ttar, Lando-T, Amoonguss, Tang and Lati@s for all other Pokemon there is still Knock Off. Priority in Ice Shard is also in favor for moving up. Rise

A --->A-
I don't think that this deserves the same rank as Azu, Lop, Ferro or even Jirachi. Regenerator is a fantastic Ability and the movepool is wide and good but I don't think that this is enough for A Rank. Ferrothorn and MSab are equally defensiv as Slowbro but the big difference is that these two apply pressure to the opponent or gain momentum, either trough Magic Bounce, Calm Mind, Iron Barbs + Rocky Helmet or Gyro Ball/Power Whip. The Assault Vest Set is inferior to Slowking and loses much if the Vest get Knock'd Off. Thunder Wave + Scald is not a good combination of attacks because there is a chance to burn something you would rather paralyze. It's common weakness in U-Turn, Knock Off and Pursuit is a hindrance which gives up momentum. Drop

A- --->B+
75 SpA is below mediocre. Serp has to use Leaf Storm at least once to do anything. The Movepool is garbage Hidden Power Fire/ Rock, Giga Drain, Taunt. Every Team has a Pokemon who can natural Check it or cripple it with Thunder Wave. As bad as Synthesis is it has besides Leftovers no real recovery and without them not enough damage output, so Hazards, Sand and every form of Priority really hurts. If this is your only option against Water and Sandteams your team is garbage. Amoonguss, Tang, Weavile and the rise of Bug Bite M Scizor should be enough of a reason to drop this. Drop

I don't play much with Gliscor but have it any reason to be in A-? You don't really want it in your team because it shares the same weaknesses as Lando-T and to be too weak against Weavile is a teambuilding failure. The popularity in Surf Latios should also be enough for it to shine.

B+ ---> A-
I think it is on pair with Tangwroth maybe to defensive acutally. Not being weak against U-Turn is huge and the availability of Clear Smog is godlike. Spore, Clear Smog and Hidden Power Fire are enough to play with his last moveslot. Regenerator and Black Sludge (and Giga Drain) does help to keep it at high health. It definitely should be in the same Rank as MVenu and for me it's the best Pokemon in B+ already. Rise

B+ ---> B
I don't understand why I see it this often. Why would I ever use it? The Substitude/Disable Set is outdated. Focus Sash without Magic Gard is like no item. Sand is everywhere so are Stealth Rocks. Life Orb Sets without a non-damaging move loses against Sucker Punch and the low accuracy of Focus Blast is a real downer with this fragile body. It's typing loses to common attack moves and without recovery to priorty. The Speedtier is fine but a 50/50 Chance is nothing I would want in a battle. Maybe I overlook something pls let me know. Drop

B+ ---> B
It's one of the few Megas I like but it's spotlight was years ago. Amoonguss is basically everything Venusaur wants to be without wasting a Megaslot and with a much better recovery in Regenerator instead of Synthesis. Stealth Rock, Spikes, Sand and Burn are all things that really really hurt Venusaur it can't even switch in strong attacks because of no recovery. If you play Leech Seed with Giga Drain and Sleep Powder, congratulations, 2 moves which are crap against opp. Grass Pokemon. Giga Drain is weak and if you don't run Hidden Power Fire, Ferrothorn walls the heck out of you. There are too many common Pokemon who don't give a f*** about it. Even against a Sandstorm Team it's useless. Drop

I don't play much with Pokemon below Rank B+, like anyone cares about whats in Rank C is.

Slate:

Volcanion drop to A-
Crawdaunt rise to B+
Mega Gardevoir drop to B+
Mega Latias drop to B+
Mega Alakazam drop to B+
Mega Manectric drop to B
Mega Venusaur drop to B
Mega Slowbro drop to B
Zapdos rise to B
Klefki drop to B-

Go crazy.

Volcanion -> Drop
The Hypetrain left the station what is left is a Pokemon with common weaknesses, no recovery and not enough firepower to stay in A. The Weakness of passive Damage and to get Knocked Off is big.

Mega Latias -> Drop
It isn't as good as the Reflect Type BoltBeam Set was anymore. You can choose better Mega Pokemons and you should.

Mega Manetric -> Drop
Electric Types are bad right now, like real bad. I used it just recently and was surprised how good it was, than I played against Balanced and more Bulky Offense and damn... It's really garbage against these archtypes.

Mega Alakazam -> Stay
I think the Speedtier, the ability pre and post Mega are reasons enough to let it stay in A-. The Ability to come in as Magic Gard Alakazam take one down and then Mega Evolve, use Trace against Volcanion, Heatran, Lando-T is huge. It can get you recovery if you copy Regenerator, Immunity in Levitate/Flash Fire/Water Absorb or pressure your Opp. with Magic Guard, Magic Bounde. All it needs are 3 attacking Moves, so you can go crazy with Calm Mind, Recover, Encore, Substitude or even Thunder Wave.

Mega Slowbro -> Drop
I think that regular Slowbro is better than Mega and the former one sucks too.

Neutral on Zapdos, Klefki and Crawdaunt because less experience with them.

 

[Drangonn.]

I disagree with gengar dropping. I also disagree with slowbro dropping.

it's not fair to compare bro to ferro or msab. tbh ferro's real niche is in spikes and msab's is magic bounce, slowbro carries a completely different role as either a calm mind sweeper or a check to stuff like zard x, keld, tran, terrak, talonflame, and many more. Vest isn't a set, just because you see something on ladder doesn't make it automatically a set. What it checks has not decreased in viability for the most part and as such it should stay.

also scald is at least 1000x more offensive pressure than anything Mega Sableye can remotely touch and absurdly better than iron barbs (no helmet because helmet ferro is trash).

you see gengar more because people prepare for it less. Focus Blast misses apply to all pokemon, lol. Sucker Punch is no reason to drop it either, look at lati twins, they're doing fine but they're weak to sucker too, right? This meta doesn't pack checks to gengar, period ( bar chansey which I'll treat separately as it's not something you'd typically find on your common fat balance team).

this, imo, is the best set:

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Icy Wind/Substitute

this set really just pressures fat teams and bulky offense like almost nothing else. Very few people have responses for this thing anymore, if you don't believe me, try out False's team and see for yourself the insane amount of pressure gengar can accumulate. It's immune to spikes as well, a common sight in today's metagame, an advantage over other life orb attackers that allows it to keep its health. Having 4 attacks isn't bad either, it lets you punish stuff like av torn that wants to come in but gets kicked by icy wind + sludge wave. You're really, REALLY underselling this mon and I personally would like to see a rise for the reasons mentioned, but at the very least keep Gengar in B+.

 

[lightninging]

one mons that shouldnt drop imo is gliscor . sharing a typing with lando-t isnt a reason to drop it in viability, really; ground/flying is pretty dang good both offensively and defensively. plus, gliscor bring sm to the table when you consider its movepool and ability. its a reliable gengar check, which is a threat to a lot of common mons like latios/clef/tran/tang etc. its ability to shit on stall in a variety of ways is great; a status immunity is amazing, as is the high passive recovery. taunt+toxic lets it wear down most walls, earthquake can nail heatrans immune to toxic, and knock off removes key items from mons like chansey and tang. SD is a great boosting option which lets gliscor sweep stall and a lot of other bulky teams, as without ice coverage most mons fail to inflict much damage on gliscor. an immunity to burns makes gliscor a great tran, charX, and mew switchin. for a more offensive build, facade hits pretty dang hard and u-turn helps generate momentum. plus, gliscor fits nicely with mons like scizor and raikou in forming a solid voltturn core. SR is a nice support feature, and can free up a moveslot on pokemon like ttar and tran. there's also the slightly gimmicky sub/toxic/protect set, which can do a number against unprepared teams, particularly with ones which have heatran as their steel type. gliscor is good 0/10 should drop.

PS im too lazy to write abt it rn but gengar shouldnt drop, its scary af for a lotta common mons like tang, clef, lati@s, etc