Project ORAS Pokemon of the Week MK. 3 - read post 138 pls

[Celticpride]

Fun fact of the week: Latias has more usage in the 1825 stats than Latios. What does that mean? Nothing really.

Mega Latias is a little overrated in my opinion. It is great from the standpoint that it hard checks a bunch of common stuff like Landorus (we all know that needs more switch-ins rofl), Thundurus, Keldeo, Char-Y and the like. Honestly if your primary STAB is resisted, SE coverage still has trouble breaking through. From a moveset standpoint there's been a decline in the mono attacking stallbreaker set, and with good reason. Not enough power off the bat leaves it really exploitable to more things than you would think. And while the 2 attacks + CM + Roost sets give more offensive firepower, they often catch a stray Toxic or Taunt against defensive teams. I mean it's pretty good overall but it picks what playstyles it does well against more than one would initially think in my experience.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

I tend to use Latias as a bulky support. It is not a Pokemon that I particularly use commonly, due to it's less-than-amazing typing of psychic and dragon, but I prefer to take advantage of all its support moves.I actually prefer it in Doubles OU because of access to tailwind, helping hand, and heal pulse. My usual OU set is something like:

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 8 SpA / 76 Spe
Timid Nature
- Wish/Healing Wish
- Tailwind
- Defog
- Dragon Pulse

Dragon Pulse just because it is a nice neutral. Wish-passing to assault vest users (which can be a game changer) can be an amazing form of recovery that can bring Pokemon without viable recovery back into the game. Even more extreme is healing wish, which is viable for focus sash users. Use something like focus sash Scizor (For unexpected fire type moves), and then bring it back into the game with healing wish. Tailwind is a useful buff for slower team members like Clefable. Another viable support set is this:

Latias (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 8 SpA / 76 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Recover
- Trick/Roar

Thunder wave can easily trouble faster opponents, Psychic is once again a basic attack to help out if it gets taunted, Recover obviously is to recover so it can continue to status opponents, and finally trick can easily cripple attempted checks like Gengar or set up users like Ferro. Roar can help get more opponents paralyzed.

There is always the good old Life Orb BoltBeaming set, but I have always found Latias a very effective aid Pokemon. My main issue with Latias is there are so many checks to it. Some running rampant in OU include:
-Gengar
-Sucker Punch Bisharp
-Tyranitar (Especially with pursuit)
-Mega Gyarados
-Scizor
-Mega Altaria
-Hydreigon
-Kyurem-Black
-Gardevoir
-Clefable
-Knock-Off Gliscor
AND WORST OF ALL...

Prankster Sableye. Sableye completely floors it with taunt, and then wears it down with priority recover and will-o-wisp, making it a difficult opponent as Latias has no damaging fairy moves, and it's only priority move is Sucker Punch, which is not smart due to Latias having a very low attack. Keep in mind, there are also other threats less common like Froslass that could pose a threat.

Overall, Latias is a very good and effective Pokemon, with plenty of usage options.

 

[michaeloche]

I've found that Latias works pretty well on hyper offensive teams. Not only does she get Defog and some nice attacks, but also Healing Wish, which helps out should your wincon be statused, low on HP, or both. I also have been running HP Fighting to lure in Bisharp wanting to snag a Defiant boost from a potential Defog, and Dragon and Fighting still have decent coverage outside of Fairies. Bisharp is cleanly OHKOed, and you can also 2HKO physically defensive Tyranitar after SR if you need to. The downside of this is that it does lower your Speed IV, so only use it if you don't need Latias to beat other base 110's.

 

[silver97]

i think mega latias is easily one of the best mons in the meta, mostly because people still haven't discovered how powerful and effective it is and it is not used that much, so often you catch people off guard (even if it is gaining popularity lately). This unpredictability let's you lure a wide range of threats which usually are common checks/counters to regular latias, especially pursuit trappers. i'm not really a fan of the cm set, it surely is effective because of the insane bulk, but it is the first set you would expect from a m-latias and is susceptible to status unlike other CMers like clef and reuni, making stallbreaking much more difficult. My favourite sets are the support ones, especially the twave roost one with two attacks of choice; it is awesome at stopping tons of opposing dangerous threats like mega lopunny and mega metagross, or trappers like ttar and sharp with the right coverage and therefore is an excellent support mon for balanced and bulky offense playstyles.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

Yeah, Latias seems to have plenty of hidden secrets it can smash onto popular opponents in OU. I do have to agree with that.

 

[Tressed]

Base Stats: 85 HP / 50 Atk / 95 Def / 120 SpA / 115 SpD / 80 Spe
Abilities: Hustle / Serene Grace / Super Luck
Togekiss is the best egg that an egg could ever hope to be
Thanks to it's reasonable offensive and defensive capabilities, Togekiss holds a few niches in the OU tier. On the offensive side of things, a pair of useful STABs in Flying and Fairy, partnered with a solid coverage movepool and access to Nasty Plot make Togekiss a potent wallbreaker, able to push it's way through defensive cores with brute force and flinches. It makes for a good defensive mon as well, as it's new Fairy typing and solid bulk give it a means to switch into many of the tier's Dragons and Fighting types. It's support movepool is excellent as well, giving it access to reliable recovery, Heal Bell, Baton Pass, and the infamous Thunder Wave. Togekiss's flaws stem from it's weakness to Stealth Rocks and common weaknesses, as well as it's mediocre speed tier.​

 

[michaeloche]

Even though Togekiss is infamous for its Serene Grace-based shenanigans, don't overlook the support moves. One of them that wasn't mentioned is Defog. I have been running a defensive set with that, Roost, Heal Bell, and Air Slash and it's a solid support mon. Thunder Wave can alleviate the speed issue and help get them flinches, as well as hamper speedy mons like Lopunny, Tornadus-T, and Alakazam.

 

[Celticpride]

The based stallbreaker Togekiss. Really solid stallbreaker that can be difficult as hell to wear down. It actually has a fairly customizable moveset even though it only has a few options. Aura Sphere and Fire Blast hit those meddlesome Steel types, with Fire Blast in particular an underrated option to take care of Ferrothorn quickly. It also gets reasonable damage from both STAB moves, with Air Slash also being very haxy. There's surprisingly little that can actually switch in on Toge completely safely and KO it (you can say that for a lot of things nowadays, but still). There's also nifty mono-attacking sets that take advantage of its bulk and Heal Bell, making it really difficult to wear down with passive damage. Great typing to top it off, checking Mega Sceptile and Garchomp among others even with little bulk investment.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

Serene grace with air slash and tri-attack can be good, as well as support Togekiss. Only problem I have ever had was that it does not get a better fairy move than dazzling gleam. Togekiss is an amazing 'mon, though.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Serene grace with air slash and tri-attack can be good, as well as support Togekiss. Only problem I have ever had was that it does not get a better fairy move than dazzling gleam. Togekiss is an amazing 'mon, though.

Er... Tri Attack is bad on Togekiss, I'd rather not waste a moveslot on something like that, and use more useful options such as Heal Bell and Aura Sphere to be honest. It has really bad coverage alongside Air Slash (think Rock- and Steel-types). What is support Togekiss? Wish is really bad on it, and it's outclassed as a cleric by Clefable and Sylveon to be honest.

But anyways, I'm really liking Togekiss. Nasty Plot Togekiss is a great stallbreaker because of it being able to flinch hax stuff to death, access to reliable recovery in Roost, and can heal off status with Heal Bell. It also has good coverage options such as Fire Blast and Aura Sphere, which is pretty cool, and works wonders against stall and balanced teams. Defensive Nasty Plot is not to be downplayed too, and from experience I can say it's a good defensive setup sweeper and is great to check problematic Pokemon such as Garchomp and Mega Lopunny. Togekiss by itself is also a good check to big metagame-defining threats such as Keldeo, Serperior, and Garchomp, but it does get hold back by the likes of Mega Metagross and Gengar.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

Er... Tri Attack is bad on Togekiss, I'd rather not waste a moveslot on something like that, and use more useful options such as Heal Bell and Aura Sphere to be honest. It has really bad coverage alongside Air Slash (think Rock- and Steel-types). What is support Togekiss? Wish is really bad on it, and it's outclassed as a cleric by Clefable and Sylveon to be honest.

But anyways, I'm really liking Togekiss. Nasty Plot Togekiss is a great stallbreaker because of it being able to flinch hax stuff to death, access to reliable recovery in Roost, and can heal off status with Heal Bell. It also has good coverage options such as Fire Blast and Aura Sphere, which is pretty cool, and works wonders against stall and balanced teams. Defensive Nasty Plot is not to be downplayed too, and from experience I can say it's a good defensive setup sweeper and is great to check problematic Pokemon such as Garchomp and Mega Lopunny. Togekiss by itself is also a good check to big metagame-defining threats such as Keldeo, Serperior, and Garchomp, but it does get hold back by the likes of Mega Metagross and Gengar.

I know that tri-attack togekiss is not very good, because it is a normal type move. I usually opt for air slash, dazzlgleam, aura sphere, and then a support move or soft boiled. Tri-attack is only for if I have an available slot I dont have anything to fill, which is rare.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Can you explain what Tri Attack does? It has really bad coverage, and relying on hax isn't a valid reason to use it. Also, Heal Bell + 3 Attacks isn't that great of a set.

edit: I MEANT HEAL BELL trussed pls forgive

 

[Blackdrakon30]

Can you explain what Tri Attack does? It has really bad coverage, and relying on hax isn't a valid reason to use it. Also, Heal Bell + 3 Attacks isn't that great of a set.

edit: I MEANT HEAL BELL trussed pls forgive

Exactly why I don't use tri-attack much. It does not do as much damage, as say, air slash or dazzling gleam or aura sphere, so all you do is hope for the useful statuses of burn, freeze, and paralysis. It is definitely not reliable, which is why I almost never use it.

Also, I do softboiled w/ 3 attacks only if I am trying to use it as cover for my team weaknesses and need it to have attacks. My usual set is this:

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 8 SpA / 132 SpD
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Dazzling Gleam

 

[DennisEG]

Toge is has only two really useful sets, the wallbreaker and the defogger. The wallbreaker set usually run Air Slash just to abuse Serene Grace, which is one of the best abilities in the game imo, then there is plenty of options u can run Fire Blast, Aura Sphere and Roost/Nasty Plot or Nasty Plot, Thunder Wave, Roost this set is just paraflinching the op until dead and last the Nasty Pass set , all this sets function as a wallbreakers imo. In the other hand we have the defogger support Roost, Defog, Air Slash and Thunder Wave/ Heal Bell normally runs Spdef is good tho but i think is an inferior version of mandibuzz at least in the current OU metagame.

 

[Karxrida]

Blackdrakon30 if you know a move is bad you probably shouldn't bring it up as an option. It adds nothing to the discussion bar a pointless derail that could have been avoided.

 

[bludz]

It's interesting to note that Togekiss is actually bulkier than Clefable. Unfortunately it doesn't have the same defensive capabilities because of more weaknesses and because it lacks Magic Guard. However it does have a very good movepool and it's actually an alright (if a bit underwhelming) Defogger with the ability to run coverage to bop incoming Bisharps.

The stallbreaker set is probably the best in this meta as it takes advantage of a lot of common defensive builds, easily setting up on things like Rocky Helmet Garchomp and proceeding to fire off +2 Air Slashes.

Choice Scarf is pretty annoying as well but really not all that great as a cleaner since it pretty much relies on hax and unlike Scarf Jirachi doesn't have as much power or speed or access to U-turn and moves like Healing Wish. Granted its STAB is a little more spammable but yeah it's generally not that great of a set.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

Blackdrakon30 if you know a move is bad you probably shouldn't bring it up as an option. It adds nothing to the discussion bar a pointless derail that could have been avoided.

Your right. I am sorry, my mistake. And because of my stubbornness, I am leaving the forums where I am trashed for experimenting with new ideas.

 

[Karxrida]

Your right. I am sorry, my mistake. And because of my stubbornness, I am leaving the forums where I am trashed for experimenting with new ideas.

There is nothing wrong with experimentation and suggesting off-the-wall ideas, it's just that you acknowledged that Tri Attack wasn't good yet brought it up anyway. You also need to prove your idea is actually good by providing evidence (high ladder replays mostly).

That doesn't mean you should quit, just get a little more experience. You should check out the mentorship and/or tutoring program we have so you can be a more productive member of the forums. You can find them here. http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/smogon-info-intro-hub.264/

 

[jordanthejq12]

Don't forget Togekiss makes a wicked passer. The added option to either bop something with a +2 Air Slash or slow-pass out to a sweeper gives her a ton of utility. And, of course, she has a solid movepool, with stuff like Shadow Ball, Psychic, and Fire Blast, of all things, all of which have Serene Grace benefits. Shadow Ball in particular is really neat for wallbreaking thanks to a 40% chance of a SpD drop, but what seems to hold Togekiss back is that she pretty much needs Roost, Air Slash, and either Nasty Plot or Thunder Wave to perform effectively.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

Togekiss has some interesting roles. It definitely makes a good cleric for your team with access to Wish, Heal Bell, and other supporting moves. Which mon do you guys think Togekiss compliments best as a teammate?

 

[TURBODERP]

Togekiss has some interesting roles. It definitely makes a good cleric for your team with access to Wish, Heal Bell, and other supporting moves. Which mon do you guys think Togekiss compliments best as a teammate?

Eh, as a Wishpasser there are better simply because while base 85 HP isn't BAD it isn't great for Wish Passing. A support set with Heal Bell is great though IMO, since you have a neat typing to check things like Garchomp/any fighting coverage/etc.

Good partners include (Rocky Helmet) Garchomp (funny considering Togekiss walls most variants), Excadrill (bulky version for getting rid of Rocks, and also appreciates Kiss being able to Heal Bell away burns), Magnezone (traps Steels which Togekiss hates, and type-wise has good synergy), and quite a few other A/S-ranked mons.

 

[Lilligant for OU]

Is it just me, or does nobody run Aura Sphere? Aura Sphere hits steel types that want to switch in

 

[jordanthejq12]

Aura Sphere is not unheard of. In fact, Aura Sphere is run over Fairy STAB on two-attack sets such as the stallbreaker one since it hits more stuff, including those pesky Steels. (So three-attack sets with Air Slash/Aura Sphere/Dazzling Gleam are not going to be a thing, never mind the perfect coverage bar Doublade.)

 

[Lilligant for OU]

Aura Sphere is not unheard of. In fact, Aura Sphere is run over Fairy STAB on two-attack sets such as the stallbreaker one since it hits more stuff, including those pesky Steels. (So three-attack sets with Air Slash/Aura Sphere/Dazzling Gleam are not going to be a thing, never mind the perfect coverage bar Doublade.)

I've rarely seen Aura Sphere for some reason

 

[jordanthejq12]

Probably because that stallbreaker set isn't terribly common, and Togekiss is better known for Serene Grace Air Slash and her supporting movepool. Still, only having one attacking slot seems a waste of 120 SpA to me.