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ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M2
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Eeeeeh, you're right for this point, Sub BU is a bit unfitting in the current offensive UU Meta.
I guess B- was indeed a bit too high, as his niches are a bit " useless " in UU rn.
C Rank through, is perfect, for the small niche Gallade could do, even as a matchup reliant mon.
Focus Sash Lead that hits every other lead supereffectively.... excpet azelf
Gallade (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Punch
Edit: NM best set here
Gallade (M) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Encore
- Memento
- Destiny Bond
- Disable
Gallade (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Punch
Edit: NM best set here
Gallade (M) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Encore
- Memento
- Destiny Bond
- Disable
Probably should squeeze knock off on for leaf blade, it's one of the must-run moves it has, plus it hits azelf :).
Honestly both those sets seem like a wasted team slot. Also the viability rankings are not where you post 'innovative' sets.
TBH i think gallade has only ever been used in UU as a sort of counter to UU stall back in the day, where sub bulk up could actually (safely) set up on a lot, and vs stall it could do some damage. Now though the metagame isn't really in favor of stall, favoring mostly forms of offense i believe, where a sub bulk up set simply cant do much.
but ya i guess it could chill in C or D rank
i forgot how to quote LOL but
C Rank: small niches in the UnderUsed metagame, but have numerous notable flaws, extensive support to be effective. tend to face a lot of competition, niches aren't all too useful for the current metagame
sounds just about right imo
but ya i guess it could chill in C or D rank
i forgot how to quote LOL but
C Rank: small niches in the UnderUsed metagame, but have numerous notable flaws, extensive support to be effective. tend to face a lot of competition, niches aren't all too useful for the current metagame
sounds just about right imo
So lets change the subject a little,
Heliolisk A- -> A Rank
Ever since raikou rose to ou, the lizard just getting better and better. First of all I would like to say the new (relevent) drops are just other mons it can beat. Its good coverage and speed that helps it deal with most of the meta, and with volt switch its act as an amazing pivot. And oh god dry skin is godly, its making treats like suicune and feraligatr much is easier to deal with. Things looks good for it, really want to see it rising.
Mamoswine A+ Rank
I knew ice/ground would be good, never excepted it to be THIS good. Along with a good attack stat, not a lot of staff like to switch in to this monster, and it got good coverage like knock off, stone edge and freeze dry. It cam also function as good lead with moves like stealth rock, endeavor and ice shard, and oblivious prevent it from getting taunted.
But its crappy speed tier and its type defensively will stop the mammoth from wrecking havoc in this offensively oriented meta. Still an amazing mon, no doubt.
Heliolisk A- -> A Rank
Ever since raikou rose to ou, the lizard just getting better and better. First of all I would like to say the new (relevent) drops are just other mons it can beat. Its good coverage and speed that helps it deal with most of the meta, and with volt switch its act as an amazing pivot. And oh god dry skin is godly, its making treats like suicune and feraligatr much is easier to deal with. Things looks good for it, really want to see it rising.
Mamoswine A+ Rank
I knew ice/ground would be good, never excepted it to be THIS good. Along with a good attack stat, not a lot of staff like to switch in to this monster, and it got good coverage like knock off, stone edge and freeze dry. It cam also function as good lead with moves like stealth rock, endeavor and ice shard, and oblivious prevent it from getting taunted.
But its crappy speed tier and its type defensively will stop the mammoth from wrecking havoc in this offensively oriented meta. Still an amazing mon, no doubt.
I'd like to have a say for viability,
Azelf B+ > A- Rank
Back when Alakazam was UU, Azelf couldn't manage to utilize its NP set without feeling slightly outclassed offensively by Alakazam despite NP, forcing it to run one of it's support sets to remain viable. Now however, Alakazam moved up to OU due to usage, meaning Azelf can finally be used as an all-out attacker with NP as it has very good coverage with moves such as Psyshock, Fire blast, Thunderbolt and Dazzling Gleam, and even if you don't think NP is worth it, it can still run one of many of its support sets such as SR Lead, or Dual Screens, making it very unpredictable. While it is frail and doesn't appreciate Mega Beedrill being UU because of its powerful U-turn, I still feel that little support is needed to use Azelf (or none if you are using Azelf as a supporter itself.) Amazing mon overall with Alakazam gone which is why I think it should rise to A- and it fits the description of an A- mon.
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the UnderUsed metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.
Azelf B+ > A- Rank
Back when Alakazam was UU, Azelf couldn't manage to utilize its NP set without feeling slightly outclassed offensively by Alakazam despite NP, forcing it to run one of it's support sets to remain viable. Now however, Alakazam moved up to OU due to usage, meaning Azelf can finally be used as an all-out attacker with NP as it has very good coverage with moves such as Psyshock, Fire blast, Thunderbolt and Dazzling Gleam, and even if you don't think NP is worth it, it can still run one of many of its support sets such as SR Lead, or Dual Screens, making it very unpredictable. While it is frail and doesn't appreciate Mega Beedrill being UU because of its powerful U-turn, I still feel that little support is needed to use Azelf (or none if you are using Azelf as a supporter itself.) Amazing mon overall with Alakazam gone which is why I think it should rise to A- and it fits the description of an A- mon.
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the UnderUsed metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.
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Agree! Seen a lot more of it since Alakazam left. Underrated Pokemon! It has many different sets that do different things. Nasty plot wrecks if you're unprepared, so easy to assume it's a standard lead set only to have your lead crapping its pants when it nasty plots. It is frail though and requires support so probably A-
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Nominating Mega Sceptile for B+ --> B
Despite Mega Sceptile roaming a tier filled with bulky waters, I feel as if it fails to live up to its B+ ranking. Firstly, this thing is weak as shit. It seems like a cool mon in concept, but it misses out on some pretty necessary KO's. For instance, +1 Suicune can take on Sceptile if it switches in [252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 158-188 (39.1 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery], thus neutralizing one of Sceptile's roles as a water stopper.
Secondly, the new drops kinda shit all over Sceptile. Mamo obviously limits Sceptile's effectiveness (ohko's with ice shard), and Mandibuzz takes it on with little to no effort. This leaves Sceptile with the short end of the stick due to the new drops.
Thirdly, Sceptile faces an immense amount of competition for a mega. Nearly every UU mega holds significant advantages over Sceptile (Pidgeot is stronger, Aero has a great typing + versatility, Ampharos is bulky + checks waters better etc.). When looking for a bulky water check, there are other viable options that a) dont use the mega slot and b) can be filled more efficiently by another mega.
Overall, I feel that these are significant enough reasons to warrant a mega sceptile drop, but I'd really like to see some discussion on the topic :S
Despite Mega Sceptile roaming a tier filled with bulky waters, I feel as if it fails to live up to its B+ ranking. Firstly, this thing is weak as shit. It seems like a cool mon in concept, but it misses out on some pretty necessary KO's. For instance, +1 Suicune can take on Sceptile if it switches in [252 SpA Mega Sceptile Giga Drain vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 158-188 (39.1 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery], thus neutralizing one of Sceptile's roles as a water stopper.
Secondly, the new drops kinda shit all over Sceptile. Mamo obviously limits Sceptile's effectiveness (ohko's with ice shard), and Mandibuzz takes it on with little to no effort. This leaves Sceptile with the short end of the stick due to the new drops.
Thirdly, Sceptile faces an immense amount of competition for a mega. Nearly every UU mega holds significant advantages over Sceptile (Pidgeot is stronger, Aero has a great typing + versatility, Ampharos is bulky + checks waters better etc.). When looking for a bulky water check, there are other viable options that a) dont use the mega slot and b) can be filled more efficiently by another mega.
Overall, I feel that these are significant enough reasons to warrant a mega sceptile drop, but I'd really like to see some discussion on the topic :S
Idk man, i have been using Modest Leaf Storm Sceptile and it has not been underwhelming. B rank is just a kick in the balls imo. I do understand the point with Timid Giga Drain, which i do agree is far too weak to be viable whatsoever. But give modest Leaf Storm 4 attacks a try and you might be surprised at how much it 2hkos
252+ SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 300-354 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252+ SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 152-180 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
As long as they rest, you still can't 2hko. Even if modest leaf storm answers the power issue, the new drops shit all over sceptile's life and better options exist for the roles it should cover imo.
id like to see some replays if possible Christo. gotta say that by personal experience B rank seems just fine for mega scep
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Energy Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 188-224 (58.2 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
There's always Energy Ball to take the middle path between LS and GD. No drawbacks and more power than Giga Drain in exchange for recovery. Can also afford to run Timid.
On that note, I don't think a drop for Mega Sceptile is unreasonable because it really does face a lot of competition for the Mega slot at the moment, the new drops aren't very good for it and Scarfers + Mega Aero and Beedrill put pressure on it, but I'm not completely on board yet. The lack of power is sort of true, though it usually doesn't have much of an issue with cleaning against weakened teams. It's still one of the best answers to bulky waters and having both immunities to Spore/Sleep Power and T-Wave is useful. Not sure on Megatile's placement atm. Good mon, but maybe not as good as it once was.
Where is Mamoswine.... in this viability rankings sheet?
*edit: just found out it was dropped from OU this week*
I feel like it is A- because it gets walled by bulky waters like slowking, alomomola, suicune
Also it gets walled from foretress, donphan, and Rotom-H
and if it doesnt have knock off, it is setup bait for cresselia
*edit: just found out it was dropped from OU this week*
I feel like it is A- because it gets walled by bulky waters like slowking, alomomola, suicune
Also it gets walled from foretress, donphan, and Rotom-H
and if it doesnt have knock off, it is setup bait for cresselia
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Relaxed Dedenne
I COULD BE BANNED!
Gallade has thisExcited for these new changes :]
Probably A or A+
Can effectively check or counter most of the other A rank mons. Great Dual Ground and Ice STAB combination
Maybe B+ or A-
This thing is very bulky, and provides immense team support with access to Defog, Whirlwind and Knock Off. Faces competition with Gligar, but overall great mon
C+ or B-
Probably gonna be RU, as it is outclassed by the likes of Herracross and Meinshao. Still an Ok mon
I'M SPECS (Gallade) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Serious Nature
- Knock Off
- Wish
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
that gallade set on the top might as well be banded trick or life orb
Donphan:
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 307-367 (84.3 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Alomomola:
16 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 232 HP / 24 SpD Alomomola: 268-320 (50.6 - 60.4%) -- 87.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Rotom-H:
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 192-229 (63.1 - 75.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Now, it can't run the right coverage move all the time, but Mamo has the sheer power to beat pretty much most mons. If Suicune has taken a hit from pretty much anything, it can't switch in on Mamo's EQ either.
Mamoswine is a lot like serperior in that it can choose what it loses to and therefore have the right team mates to cover its weaknesses. Really a powerful pokemon in the meta. I'm not going to suggest anything yet as mamoswine is still very new to Uu and I want to test it out more. I'm currently finding that there is a nice offensive core with mamo, entei, and wimiscott (tailwind) that is extremely effective. Still testing.
so Mamoswine isn't anywhere to be seen in the rankings, is it because it still needs to be tested/voted on before being ranked and able to use in tournaments?
if not, S-rank please. STAB earthquake is probably the strongest attack in UU without drawbacks, it's too easily spammable, and because fliers are hit super effectively by mamo's secondary STAB, this is a brutal attacker. i think it's not too broken though because offense doesn't care much about it since most offensive mons outspeed and OHKO it, and stall will often adapt well to it (as it always does, even with bigger threats), be through the use of Cress, P2 or other niche mons.
if not, S-rank please. STAB earthquake is probably the strongest attack in UU without drawbacks, it's too easily spammable, and because fliers are hit super effectively by mamo's secondary STAB, this is a brutal attacker. i think it's not too broken though because offense doesn't care much about it since most offensive mons outspeed and OHKO it, and stall will often adapt well to it (as it always does, even with bigger threats), be through the use of Cress, P2 or other niche mons.
Erm speed tier is a little on the low side and its priority is only powerful when its supereffective. It has great offensive typing but I wouldnt want to switch it in on much espeically in this meta. Probably the best wallbreaker in the tier. Would put it at A plus
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I don't really think mamo is great against stall, considering it struggles against staples like cress, umbreon (phys def is good, wake up sheeple!!!), suicune, alomo... calling it the best wall breaker is pretty much just wrong, sd hera and sd gatr are far harder to prepare for.
What it does succeed in is breaking balanced cores that rely a little more on typing than the pure bulk that stall does, or like pory2 who gets rekt when it loses eviolite. It does however do better against offense than hera with strong ice priority. I think it should be in A with the stronk bug.
What it does succeed in is breaking balanced cores that rely a little more on typing than the pure bulk that stall does, or like pory2 who gets rekt when it loses eviolite. It does however do better against offense than hera with strong ice priority. I think it should be in A with the stronk bug.
On another note, Gastrodon's analysis was recently rejected by QC due to it being severely outclassed as a Water / Ground-type by Seismitoad and Swampert. Because of this, it probably shouldn't be ranked at all anymore since there isn't a reason to use it. So yeah, remove Gastrodon from the rankings imho.
Also Mamoswine is very much a top tier threat. It's definitely one of the top wallbreakers in the tier, possibly one of, if not the best wallbreaker in the tier as it boasts a dual STAB combination that borders excellent and it hits hard, plus EQ has few drawbacks. EQ and Icicle Crash cover much of the tier and once it gets in, Mamoswine can do quite a lot of damage. Its priority Ice Shard is of great value in UU as it stands, allowing Mamoswine great utility in revenge killing Salamence, Crobat, Mega Pidgeot, Hydreigon, and more. It has a decent matchup against other relevant threats too. It's defintely at least A+, if not up there in S. It's a brutal threat that is very useful on many teams.
Also Mamoswine is very much a top tier threat. It's definitely one of the top wallbreakers in the tier, possibly one of, if not the best wallbreaker in the tier as it boasts a dual STAB combination that borders excellent and it hits hard, plus EQ has few drawbacks. EQ and Icicle Crash cover much of the tier and once it gets in, Mamoswine can do quite a lot of damage. Its priority Ice Shard is of great value in UU as it stands, allowing Mamoswine great utility in revenge killing Salamence, Crobat, Mega Pidgeot, Hydreigon, and more. It has a decent matchup against other relevant threats too. It's defintely at least A+, if not up there in S. It's a brutal threat that is very useful on many teams.
Sorry I mean best stand alone wall breaker as it doesn't have any set up moves (one of mamoswine's great disadvantages). Mamo hits everything that wants to switch into it super effectively barring some bulky water types and even that you can run freeze dry.
I think gastrodon has a place in stall because of Recover and Clear Smog but you'll have to ask someone like Lapras! about it. Otherwise it's reliable recovery is not worth it in balance play and it's movepool is farely shallow to run anything that might be beneficial in the meta. If it doesn't have a place in stall then I'm all for making it unranked.
Well, obviously, Recover is a huge huge huge advantage it has over Seismitoad and Swampert, so saying it has no reason to be used at all is just wrong. Swampert and Toad fit better on balanced teams because of their ability to set up rocks, but not all the time. If you already have a stealth rocker, I would even say there is no reason to use (defensive) Swampert and Seismitoad over Gastrodon lol. Most of the time you won't want Gastro on stall over another bulky water like Vaporeon and Slowking, but that doesn't mean in every instance. Many times when building defensive teams you find an annoyance to volt switch, and Gastrodon covers this fairly well, and it also deals with Hone Claws MegaDactyl much better. It absorbs scald, which saves stall teams the time from switching and having to use heal bell on a cleric, and can hit hard with its dual STABs vs hyper offense if it gets the storm drain boost, something Quagsire fails pathetically in.
Gastrodon definitely deserves a ranking. Mostly overshadowed but it is not a bad pokemon overall and does have its unique useful traits.
Just a small nitpick but agility ampharos is probably its worst set :[
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