ORAS UU Viability Rankings V4

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I think some of the claims above are a little dubious about darm. I agree that it functions best on volturn, but whenever I build volturn, I am always inclined to consider scarfshao or rotom-h before darmanitan. Mienshao because it can revenge kill DD mence which is the single most threatening sweeper in the tier atm which is a big deal as well as always outspeeding hydra and rotom-h fills in this volt-switch need while cutting out the middle man and actually carrying switch-in prowess. You also mentioned that hazard removal should be considered when using darm but on offensive volturn, this is really not easy to produce given that defog sacrifices too much momentum (not to mention your own hazards which is very important for volturn) and there very few offensive spinners in the tier (odds are you won't be able to run megatoise either as you'll presumably be using your mega slot for bee on offensive volturn so you're pretty much left with offensive cruel or kabutops), none of which have volt switch or u-turn.

I agree that it's not on par with donphan but that is too high in B-. I wouldn't say it's as good as something like P2 which has nearly the same speed and bulk but is significantly harder to switch into imo particularly with trick screwing over its usual checks a lot worse than u-turn does to darm's checks. I think it's fine in B- with mons that I still think have decent merit in this meta like arcanine, galv and blissey.

As for the rose nomination that was mentioned, I think it is much better than B tbh. While it's defensive set is still ass as it has been since about BW2, LO Sleep powder is really dangerous atm. I'm talking Sleep/Lstorm/bomb/HPfire (with technician). With the metagame taking more of a shift towards attackers hovering around 80 base speed, it's a great time to be a quick sleep inducer who no grass types can switch into. Tbh, the only thing that can decently switch into this set in all of A-rank and above is lax and if you don't have that, then you have to sac something to sleep and find a switch in lest rosie just kills your sleep fodder and rinses and repeats next time you have 85- speed mon, fairy, or bulky water out. Definitely not B material IMO and I would argue it warrants a place next to shaymin in A-
 
Rick333 said:
To think once upon a time Snorlax, Alakazam and Zapdos were OU, how times change
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This is off topic, but actually kind of true when you think about it.

On topic though, I agree with Donphan dropping. It has some uses over other hazard removers (Electric immunity, Sturdy mon with decent offensive prescene) but IMO it's not very good in execution as its special defense is horrible and it's just too weak at times (It's best choice for priority is non-STAB Ice Shard). I'd suggest putting it in C, it's similar to Milotic in a way in that it has niches over its competition but in general isn't worth using over them. Oh, and being outclassed by Krookodile and Mamoswine most of the time (cause hazard removal properties and lack of Fighting weakness) as Ground-type attackers doesn't really help its case.
 
Yeah, Donphan it's UU's worst Spinner, it has a bad typing and a terrible Movepool... I think that it can be aside of Vaporeon...
 
Mr. Highways said:
Yeah, Donphan it's UU's worst Spinner, it has a bad typing and a terrible Movepool... I think that it can be aside of Vaporeon...
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Donphan actually has a rather extensive movepool, with a good amount of coverage options in moves like Seed Bomb to hit bulky waters and Gunk Shot to snipe Chesnaught. Honestly I don't really care about Donphan's placement, but I will say that imo the Choice Band set is really underrated as while it's mostly outclassed by CB Krook, it can lure in Chesnaught and 2HKO him with Gunk Shot, paving the way for something like Gyarados to sweep late-game. I'm just saying that Donphan has other options than just spinning, but use those options wisely, otherwise it's just outclassed by the other bulky Ground types.
 
Hi I wanna talk to you all about Cloyster to B. I think it has lots more than B- potential in the current UU meta.
The life orb icicle spear/rock blast/hydro pump/shell smash ohko's all of S, A+ and A tier except Reuniclus (approx. 12.5% chance to OHKO) and Suicune.
It has the physical bulk to be able to take hits from the tier's big physical guys like Mamoswine/Mega Swampert/Gyarados/Feraligatr/physical Salamence, and setup with enough hp to get a couple hits off. Unboosted CC from Cobalion does 77-90%. Also, it's one of the few mons that can reliably break through sash Alakazam after setup without having to rely on hax of some sort, which is cool cuz fuck sash zam stopping sweeps.

It obviously has some pretty big drawbacks; it's spdef/speed stats, vulnerability to priority encore/WoW, relative lack of power pre-smash etc. It's not ever going to be an A tier mon, but I feel it's got a lot of potential in the meta at the moment.
 
I totally agree that darm needs to rank up i came here to nominate it but daspoofy beat me anyways
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(to b-):
Honestly dont get why this thing is ranked so high its good and all but honestly has too much competition with other phychic types like reuniclus,azelf, and alakazam, Magic bounce is pretty good and its still a good user of cm but b is not right for imo has a hard time on to teams currently.
 
empire370 said:
I totally agree that darm needs to rank up i came here to nominate it but daspoofy beat me anyways
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(to b-):
Honestly dont get why this thing is ranked so high its good and all but honestly has too much competition with other phychic types like reuniclus,azelf, and alakazam, Magic bounce is pretty good and its still a good user of cm but b is not right for imo has a hard time on to teams currently.
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I think espeon rose in ranks before Alakazam dropped back down into UU. With the return of Zam, Espeon can be ranked lower down now.
 
Changes:

Mega Sceptile: B+ to A-
Shaymin: A- to B+. didn't nom this before, but it's definitely not easy to spam Seed Flare with stuff like Zapdos, Entei, and Salamence around, especially since two of these have Pressure and can consume your flares rather quickly in conjunction with Cune or other waters.
Roserade: B+ to B
Mega Houndoom: A- to B+
Toxicroak: A to A- (think I forgot to do this earlier)
Mega Steelix: C+ to B- (same)
Espeon: B to B- self explanatory
Milotic: C to B-. Quite annoying to take down for some teams as we've seen in SPL. Gyara counter is extremely nice but it also counters a decent amount of Pokemon aside from that (unlike Vaporeon). The fact that it easily has room for Ice Beam in its movepool is even better, meaning Whimsicott and Sceptile aren't free switchins and it doesn't have to rely on Scald for Dragons.

Alakazam is staying at A right now. Feel free to discuss it more.

Nominations: a bunch of lower rank mons this time, thanks Pearl for helping me with this

Slurpuff: B to B-. A huge number of conditions have to be met in order for this to sweep, most likely including the opponent making a mistake. It does have sweeping potential, but I don't think it's reliable enough for B.
Venomoth: B to B-. A bit iffy on this one since it's a huge threat if it gets in on something slower that can't threaten it, but a lot of teams have natural answers for it, whether it's something that can live a +1 Bug Buzz, Scarf mon, or strong priority (or just not letting it set up). The fact that it can set up on a bunch of Pokemon and has pretty decent Speed makes me hesitant though.
Diancie: C+ to B. Decent Stealth Rock user with a bunch of key resistances and utility.
Donphan: B- to C+. Basically you only use it if you're absolutely desperate for a spinner and for some reason the other ones don't work.
Honchkrow: B- to C+. I'm a little undecided on this one too, but it's pretty hard to use this and there are better wallbreakers.
Meloetta: C to C+. A solid offensive check to zam and hits pretty hard with specs with great coverage - I'd say this is about on par with Haxorus.
Vaporeon: C- to D. Will probably be controversial, but yeah I just think this mon is too bad to be worth a spot here. Being reliant on Wish to heal itself from stuff like Entei and Aero is the worst.
Flygon: Unranked to C- or something, offensively it's crap, but defensively it /can/ be useful as a reliable Defogger with ok typing. Only usable if you're desperate or trying really hard to make it work really, but that's what C and C- are for.

One more that people won't like Kyurem: A- to B+. I'll just post my convo with Pearl:
[17:09:59] +dodmen: man
[17:10:04] +dodmen: i hate how people circlejerk over kyurem
[17:10:07] Purrl: i think rhyperior is a really good mon
[17:10:11] +dodmen: and people just refuse to believe it's not a-
[17:10:15] +dodmen: because hipster or something
[17:10:25] Purrl: uh
[17:10:26] +dodmen: hydreigon is better almost every time
[17:10:31] Purrl: i think kyurem is ok in A-
[17:10:37] Purrl: the deal is
[17:10:42] +dodmen: it can spam ice beam blah blah
[17:10:44] Purrl: the only ppl who are weak to kyurem that aren't weak to florg
[17:10:47] Purrl: i mean
[17:10:48] Purrl: to hydra
[17:10:50] Purrl: are those who use florg
[17:10:58] Purrl: but there are a lot of ppl slapping florg onto balance
[17:10:58] +dodmen: florg isn't even weak to kyurem
[17:11:00] +dodmen: "weak"
[17:11:01] +dodmen: to kyurem
[17:11:05] Purrl: that it totally justifies using kyurem
[17:11:07] Purrl: it is
[17:11:08] Purrl: it's taking like
[17:11:15] Purrl: 40-45% from ice beam
[17:11:17] Purrl: it can't tank it consistently
[17:11:25] +dodmen: yeah but kyurem can't even come in consistently
[17:11:31] Purrl: true
[17:11:37] +dodmen: especially when
[17:11:40] Purrl: depends
[17:11:44] +dodmen: most of the time it comes in, it's against a water type
[17:11:47] Purrl: yeah
[17:11:50] Purrl: you're right
[17:11:51] +dodmen: which means ice beam/draco games
[17:11:59] Purrl: idk
[17:12:08] +dodmen: escav is rising
[17:12:16] Purrl: i like the sub dtail
[17:12:17] Purrl: kyu set
[17:12:18] +dodmen: hydreigon is better offensively easily
[17:12:22] Purrl: which is
[17:12:24] +dodmen: yeah sub dtail is one of the things that gives it a niche
[17:12:26] Purrl: the biggest niche
[17:12:27] +dodmen: but not an a- set
[17:12:28] Purrl: over hydra
[17:12:39] Purrl: anyway don't move kyu down
[17:12:40] +dodmen: requires way too much support for a-
[17:12:43] Purrl: people will go crazy
[17:12:45] Purrl: over that
[17:12:47] Purrl: make the nom
[17:12:50] +dodmen: well i'm nomming it yea
[17:12:54] Purrl: and see if you can make it happen
 
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Its interesting that before you posted that I probably would've rejected a kyurem drop just out of it being well, kyurem but you make a lot of good points. The biggest thing for me especially is the prediction argument which really sucks for both a SR weak mon and a mon with relatively abusable stabs(especially the Dragon one which sometimes is hard no to click with waters as mentioned). I've tried LO so many times to try and use by Roost for longevity and to ease prediction but it sucks cos if you don't find the Roost opportunities you're even worse off long term and now you can't hurt Florges balance as hard which is why you use it over Hydreigon. LO Iron Head is balls too.

A point I'd also like to make that wasn't mentioned is that you never really drop a Kyurem on a team, like its when you've got your idea and your initial base you rarely drop a Kyurem on it. For me personally this is a big thing for viability rankings and the mons in higher tiers on viability rankings are often those that can be thrown in at the end and relied upon to fill the roles you need whereas Kyurem often requires support to the degree where you build around it not with it.
 
Nomination: Drifblim from Unranked to C-. Drif has a base 150 HP stat and access to Baton Pass. It is simply often times the best in the business when it comes to the entire Baton Pass strategy, and based on that I think it deserves a spot in the rankings. The set I like to use is Stockpile/Acrobatics/Substitute/Baton Pass with a Weakness Policy. The Ghost/Flying type lends itself very well to using the WP. Drif also gets Unburden, so as soon as the WP is activated it will out speed pretty much anything. It also gets other useful moves such as Clear Smog, Calm Mind, Defog, Destiny Bond, Endure, Focus Energy, Haze, Memento, Pain Split, Recycle, Tailwind, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Trick, and Will O Wisp as well as a decent Special Attack moveset so it has the ability to do some really cool and interesting things. That being said it can be really vulnerable before getting a Stockpile up. The best way to use it is to wait for a free switch so it doesn’t take too much damage before boosting its weak defenses. A decent amount of speed invest is very helpful as well. The Weakness Policy/Unburden combo is crucial to getting off BP against faster opponents like Hydregion. My favorite use is against Forry, using him as a spin blocker and then getting his WP activated by Volt Switch, which does minimal damage. If all goes well using my set, passing a few Stockpiles and/or the WP boost to a better suited mon such as Suicune can have to ability the end the game right then and there. I have been using my Drifblim Baton Pass team for a while and many of you can attest to the threat that it truly can be. I have made a few changes to it but I posted a RMT for it here if you are interested: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...d-peaked-2-on-1-23-2016.3554352/#post-6498419

I believe Drif would be best used when paired with a Screens user like me or maybe a Memento user if you would like to use a similar set. That being said it really does have a lot of interesting move choices and could probably even have an interesting Flare Boost set. Here are some replays I recorded for you guys to check out the awesome power that Drif can wield if used correctly.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-336914096

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-288085937

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-288082272

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-288093931
 
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Re: Slurpuff

I really don't think Slurpuff should drop seeing as how its most common answer, Doublade, has really suffered recently which is huge. Aside from the Doublade drop, it can be argued that the metas shifted a bit to hurt puff but that really doesn't change Slurpuff in the slightest. I view Slurpuff as something that's viability will never really change since it always performs the same role no matter what. So long as Hydreigon and Salamence reign supreme, Slurpuff will always have a place in the tier. Sure you have to remove Whimsicott (not that hard), remove priority (or drain punch to good health), and weaken Aggron/Forre, but aside from the last of those it isn't that difficult. Also, Slurpuff's decidedly decent bulk lets you set up on Aero, who is pretty much the best dude in UU right now. Anyways, versus a good opponent Slurpuff completely dictates how the game needs to be played and versus a bad opponent, they'll walk into a Slurpuff sweep by turn 10 if you play well. A final note, like any hyper offense mon, Slurpuff doesn't need to win every matchup for you since that style of team has so many different avenues to victory that something is going to be useless every match.

Some other notes:

Venomoth: Been playing around with LO Veno recently and things a beast when paired with Memento Whimsicott since at some point in the game you can probably memento on a Nido, Florges, or something similar and really go to town with venomoth.

Diancie: I'd probably be more comfortable seeing Diancie with Donphan and Shuckle in B- if it were to rise at all.

Donphan: I think Donphan's lowkey pretty good as an offensive ground but I've never tried it personally. I view it as shitty Mamoswine that doesn't lose to Cobalion. This is just theory but thought I'd mention it.
 
omfg i'm using Diancie a lot recently, and it can deal with ease against Dragon-, Normal-, Fire-, Flying-, Bug- and Dark-Types.
diancie.gif

Diancie from C+ to B-​
  • It can resist the most dangerous STAB of the UU Metagame: Entei's Sacred Fire;
  • Infernape, Darmanitan, Arcanine, Mega Houndoom and Rotom-H can't touch it;
  • Mixed Mence can do one thing against it: Nothing;
  • Dragon Dance without Iron Tail: Same
  • Hydreigon can touch Diancie with a Mixed Iron Tail Set;
  • Mega Aerodactyl can't touch Diancie without Iron Head;
  • Absol Mega and Beedrill Mega are so weak against it;
  • It is a good wall in front of Zapdos, Mandibuzz, Sableye and Umbreon;
  • It is a good Creric, thanks to Heal Bell;
  • It learns Stealth Rock

  • ANY Water-Type can use it as Setup bait (Sharpedo-Mega is an exception);
  • It is very weak to Ground- and Grass-Types, such as Roserade, Sceptile-Mega, Mamoswine and Krookodile;
  • Steel-Types such as Metagross, Doublade and Cobalion can OHKO it with ease;
  • Reuniclus, Florges and Snorlax can use it as Setup bait;
  • Blissey, Florges and Vaporeon can WishPass with ease in front of it;
  • It is very weak if Chandelure, Rotom-C or Porygon-Z trick those items;
 
Some thoughts...

Alakazam remaining A: Disagree. This is the big one for me, so I'll start off here.

I think Zam is absolutely A+ in this meta. It's something you wouldn't necessarily pick up from laddering just because everyone on the ladder spams Sash T-wave (which is a decent check to offense but eh). But in particular, I think that the meta is really hazard heavy at the moment, with Spikes in particular making a big appearance on offense, balance and stall alike, and Zam is the perfect 'mon to take advantage of that. In particular, LO Alakazam is almost the perfect cleaner with hazards down, as it gets notable KOs on more or less the entire tier with hazards that it often misses without. I've used it now both on a Spikes HO and on a hazard-heavy team that veered toward balance/semistall, and even with the meta spamming Pursuit right now, it almost always puts in a ton of work. (Plus defensively it's nice as an antimeta threat that doesn't get worn down by hazards.)

I'd personally move it to A+, probably between Mamoswine and Gyarados.

(For the record, the two sets I've had the most success with have been LO with four attacks, and LO with three attacks and Substitute.)

Agreeing with all of the changes made, in particular...

Mega Sceptile to A-: Definitely agreed, this thing has been so good lately. Underrated for a while, and even better in the Zam + Coba meta we've currently got.

Milotic to B-: Agreed, it's amazing how much this can check in one slot. It's a bit of a momentum killer, so it's not going to work on every team, but I've definitely gotten good use out of this recently.

As to the new nominations...

Slurpuff/Donphan/Honchkrow/Vaporeon/Flygon: Agreeing with all of these, but nothing really substantive to say about them.

Venomoth to B-: Disagree. Moth is still actually really threatening, and I've been seeing some bulkier sets that typically require two boosts to sweep but that are less vulnerable to priority/scarfers work out really well lately. I think it stands up well next to most of B.

Diance to B: Disagree (sort of). I agree that Diancie was underrated, but I think that going all the way up to B is a bit much. B- feels like a better fit. (B would mean you're actually jumping it past Blissey, which fulfills many of the same niches, is somewhat more passive but checks WAY more threats, and actually has reliable recovery... keeping it at the same tier as Blissey feels right to me.) EDIT: dod said this was meant to be to B- so ignore this one.

Kyurem to B+: Agree. I love me some Kyurem, but yeah, this one makes sense. Honestly Kyurem was at its best when people were still always running Bold Florges as their only check for special Dragons, and while it's still really really good, it's just not the strong anti-meta threat it used to be.
 
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Thoughts on nominations:
Slurpuff: on the fence with this while it can be hard to use i still think its a pretty good cleaner once it sets up it can be really hard to deal with but idk what to say about it
Venomoth: Agree i really loved venomoth when it first came because it was just sweeping left and right but now although i still think its amazing its too reliant on sleep powder too vunerable to scarfers and worn down very easily since it has no room for roost most the time yea so drop it

Vapo is just a dumbass atm most of its niches r pretty irrelvant, and this thing just not worth using these day so i guess its worthy enough to be called a shitmon
Donaphan: this dropping is overdue
Kyreum: yea this can drop to the top b+ imo i haven't used it in long time so its hard to decide
The rest of mons i never used
 
Mr. Highways said:
omfg i'm using Diancie a lot recently, and it can deal with ease against Dragon-, Normal-, Fire-, Flying-, Bug- and Dark-Types.
diancie.gif

Diancie from C+ to B-​
  • Mega Aerodactyl can't touch Diancie without Iron Head;
Click to expand...

I can get behind this nom but that's just not true. Being as aqua tail is quite common on mega aero and with diancie not having reliable recovery it can safely switch into a mega aerodactyl a grand total of 1 time if they aqua tail on your switch.
252 Atk Aerodactyl Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Lot of weird stuff being said about Diancie lol. I just wanna wrap this up cuz I think Hogg hit it on the head. B- is probably perfect because this thing does a lot of the stuff that Blissey does (Heal Bell, Rocks), but it's also a rocker that beats Defoggers and it has some nice typing that lets it check Entei which can be huge for semi-stall teams that usually have Florges as their cleric/go-to Fairy. However, its typing is inferior to Blissey's in a lot of ways, it has no good recovery and if you're running the things that are the only reason you'd run it (as I said above) it's setup bait for a lot of stuff. Soooo yeah I think we can all agree on B- and leave it at that.
 
empire370 said:
Vapo is just a dumbass atm
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:(

But yeah, Vaporeon should definitely drop to D. There has literally never been a time during team building where I've considered it as my bulky water. Assuming you're using the wish + baton pass set (which is its only niche at this point) you're set up fodder for Salamence, Gyarados, and pretty much any other set up sweeper that resists water. Vaporeon's bulk is also extremely underwhelming and does not allow it to check the things your bulky water slot is supposed to check. Entei can easily blow past it if it gets the burn and rocks are up, especially with Vaporeon's reliance on wish to heal itself. Strong physical attackers like Mega Sharpedo, Mega Beedrill, Mamoswine, and Krookodile all 2HKO it after rocks. It has even become harder for it to wall special attackers with the rise in usage of Mega Sceptile and Taunt Hydreigon. As much as it hurts me to see vapo drop, it definitely does deserve to at this point.
 
Adding onto what Hogg said about Alakazam, the ability to force out nearly the entire tier's offensive threats without any drawbacks as well as choosing what it beats with its expansive move pool. It can only be checked well by strong priority, scarfs, or 4 faster mons that cant switch in safely, and the faster mons/scarfs get crippled if its sash twave. Alakazam can also beat sucker punch if its sub and live priority like Entei espeed and Doublade ssneak with just a little defense investment (the trade off being losing speed ties to other Alakazam and 1-2% of power). The same investment lets it live Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace and Pursuit forcing it to Stone Edge if it wants guaranteed 1HKO. While I don't think its as meta defining as Entei or above it's not because it isn't as strong as those pokemon but because the meta doesn't have enough tools to adapt in a way where Alakazam can't adapt right back. So I agree with Hogg on its A+ ranking but would personally put it right below Entei.
 
Aight Imma give my opinions on the current nominations, and make some of my own.

Slurpuff B to B-: Disagree I honestly dont think too much has changed for this thing and I think YABO summed it up super well. Its just one of those things that people forget about, and sometimes dont prepare for. When it gets Belly Drum up, it just becomes such a threat. But again, YABO explains everything in more detail

Venemoth B to B- On The Fence I really haven't used Venemoth that often, but it is a huge threat. Like once it sets up it is very threatening, but it is walled by many things, and has to rely on sleep powder's shaky accuracy. But yeah again, I dont have much else to say about it

Diancie C+ to B- Agree Yeah I totally agree with this one, it has a great typing and is a pretty reliable fire check. Even though it can be worn down quickly it can hit from both sides, actually hits fairly hard, and has some useful support moves in Stealth Rock and Heal Bell. Also works insanely well on TR. Its Rest, Sleep Talk, Moonblast, Calm Mind set is also really scary, especially against more defensive teams. Mr. Highways also summed it up really well, like he does in many of his nominations.

Donphan B- to C+ Disagree Donphan I think should stay in B-. Its actually not that bad, and can fufill many roles. It works as a spinner and a stealth rocker, and unlike Gligar, actually hits pretty hard. Donphan also isn't as weak to things like knock off. Another reason I dont think Donphan should drop is that it actually hits pretty hard. Donphan can work pretty well as an offensive spinner, and also can run AV alright. I mean yeah it is a little niche to fit on teams, but it does work. Also has some nice utility in Knock Off and Ice Shard, even though Mamoswine has the same thing. And also has some cool niche moves in Seed Bomb and Gunk Shot but yeah its still mediocre, however not C+ mediocre.

Honchkrow B- to C+ Disagree This thing is definetly not C+. This thing is actually a monster, and doesnt get the love it deserves. Kind of like Slurpuff and Cloyster, its one of those things you forget about and get swept by it. Like this thing hits hard, and has Sucker Punch to make up for its lacking speed. The other things I like about Honchkrow is that it can act as a wallbreaker, and a sweeper, and can actually run mixed sets pretty well, consisting of Heat Wave. Also Honchkrow is on my Whimsikrow creation, so yeah definetly not C+.

Meloetta C to C+ Agree I actually thought it was C+, so this is a certain yes for me. This thing has gotten better with things like Alakazam running around, and proves to be a very versatile and Bulky Offensive threat. Rattled Snakes actually made a really cool Specs Meloetta team, and Specs Meloetta is a really cool mon. Meloetta also just has so much versatility, Specially Defensive support, Scarf, Specs, AoA, Sub CM, and even its Pirouette Form. Shoutout to Kreme for a really cool team with that on it.

Vaporeon C- to D On The Fence Yeah Vaporeon is pretty bad, but it is one of those things that can be a pain to kill sometimes. It is pretty much outcalssed by Milotic and Alomomola and other bulky waters, but there is 2 things that set it apart. The first is that it actually hits pretty hard, for a defensive mon base 110SpA isnt bad at all. The second thing is baton pass, which can be used very well to gain momentum, and wishpass. And another little thing is its ability water absorb, but honestly Regenerator or Marvel Scale are much more useful. All in all, I have mixed feelings about the nomination.

Flygon Unranked to C- Agree Yeah this thing is a cool mon, I think it should be C-. The thing is, its typing is actually pretty useful, in that it gives it a nice immunity to ground and electric type attacks. Flygon also has access to many useful moves, such as U-turn, Stealth Rocks, and most importantly Defog. Now, Gligar can do all of these things as well, but Flygon sets itself apart by not being as weak to knock off, having a much better offensive presence, it can fire off a relatively powerful outrage or earthquake, and can even have mixed attacks such as Draco Metoer, or Fire Blast. Its secondary Dragon typing gives it a useful nuetrality to water, and also gives it useful resists in rock and fire. So yeah I think C-

Kyruem A- to B+ On The Fence Basically because I dont have too much to say about this, because most of the posts above have given me mixed feelings. I also dont use Kyruem a whole lot.

Phew! Now for some of my own nominations.

Porygon-2 from B to B+ P2 is just such a good blanket check to so many things, and can be a staple on many teams. It has frustratingly good bulk, reliable recovery, great coverage, and useful utility. It also can work on so many styles, and that kind of splashableness is why it should be B+. I think everything else is kind of self explanatory, as this guy can just be a little monster, and hold its own.

Accelgor from C- to C Now I may be a bit biased since its my favorite mon, but honestly I cant see it among things like Regular Blastoise, Cofagrigus, Durant, and Xatu. Honestly, I dont use Accelgor like a whole lot, but I so feel it is better. I am really liking Spikes, Encore, Focus Blast, Bug Buzz. Like I said in my gigantic analysis post on Accelgor (Lets forget about that), Accelgor has a great matchup against many common leads. However the main thing that has changed for it is Alakazam dropping. Accelgor can easily beat Alakazam, and has a good matchup against many of Alakazam's popular partners, such as Hydreigon, Mega-Absol, Cobalion, and Krookodile. Accelgor can beat all of them, and works as a pretty good Cobalion lure actually. Accelgor also has something that is very important right now, high speed. 145 is great and blows past Froslass. Accelgor also doesnt have to be a lead, which is one thing I like about it rn, is that it isnt super predictable like Froslass. But yeah I just feel Accelgor needs to be C rank, as I feel it stands out from the rest in C-.

Also why the heck is Registeel C rank ._.
Anyhow I hope you liked my post :)
 
agree with vaporeon and donphan. i just cannot think of any good niche these two have that make them justifiable to a team (donphan could even go to D rank imo)
 
I've been playing with Kyurem a lot recently, so I decided to share some experience with you guys. Tbh I wouldn't mind keep Kyurem in A-, simply because Kyurem is the most problematic Dragon a Fairy has to face. Except for Florges, none Fairy in this tier can switch on it, based on the pure power of its Specs set. Even Calm Florges once again rising doesn't hurt Kyurem in a mid-to-late game scenario: it's hard to keep Florges 100% healthy over a match, so if u manage to get her to 80%~ and some hazard up, she is not a switch to this thing anymore. To be honest, Ice and Rock types are intrinsically UU antimeta types, since most steel types can't hold their own thru a match against them, so it's hard to imagine a meta where Kyurem can't stand among gods. If your opponent doesn't carry Florges, you are most likely able to spam Specs Dracos à volonté.

But the difficulty to build around Kyurem can't be ignored. Unlike Salamence and Hydreigon, you can't just throw Kyurem in a team and call it a day. It doesn't require that much support to be effective - hazard control is necessary in any team and the best wallbreakers can't simply switch in most of the time, let's be honest - but it does require way more support than other dragon types, while offering way less defensive capabilities in the dragon slot, aside being one-dimensional (I never had any success with SubRoost sets, altho Mixed LO sounds kind of funny). It's a high risk/high reward mon that asks for a well minded build to effectively shine. With that mind, I wouldn't mind if it is just moved inside its own A- rank, but I understand if it is moved to upper B+.

All others dod's noms seems good. I guess I'd keep Vaporeon ranked, but I don't have any experience to argue a point neither. Also, Accelgor is a good spike setter that definitely has some niches over Froslass for some hyper offense builds, so I guess it's a good nom too. I'm not really feeling up to make a own nom right now. sorry. but if you are sick of using SD + 3 Atks Cobalion and failing to break even the most common bulky water cores, I'd suggest you to try Virizion. It's never been useless on my recent matches, having a good matchup against against most teams since waters are omnipresent in UU. It actually shows up with a really good matchup against stall, since most stall have a defensive physical core of a water type + grass type (Aloma + Tang, Chesnaught + Quagsire, etc), Virizion can put some work with solid STAB on Close Combat, and a reliable SE STAB for water types in Leaf Blade. Things like HP Fire Defensive Tangrowth fails to 2HKO a -1 Virizion. It does have problems with faster threats (altho it can live and retaliate back thigs like Mega Sceptile), but I'd say it's worth a check if you are looking for an offensive grass type. I don't know, since Gyarados and Zapdos forced Cobalion to run Stone Edge on any SD set, SD Virizion sounded me way better than we might be assuming it is.
 
malinowski said:
Simply because Kyurem is the most problematic Dragon a Fairy has to face. Except for Florges, none Fairy in this tier can switch on it, based on the pure power of its Specs set
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Though I agree kyurem does threaten fairies a lot because of its secondary ice stab, saying it is the most probalmatic dragon for fairies is untrue. Though not as common, dragalge still threatens fairies more, due to them fearing the adaptability sludge wave that will OHKO. I have no experience with kyurem so I won't be supporting a drop or not, but having ice beam does help threaten fairies, saying kyurem is the most probalmatic for fairies is simply untrue.
 
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