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[OU RMT] Return of DragoZone

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by [Zangoose], Sep 5, 2010.

  1. [Zangoose]

    [Zangoose]

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    95
    Hi all! After moderate success with my previous team, I decided to fix a few things. I just kept on fixin', changing a Pokemon here, adding some EVs there, and soon I found myself with a completely different team. I'm a fan of all-out offense, and this suits me perfectly. This team got more success on the leaderboard, peaking at about 1350 CRE on Pokemon Online, and seeing as though I don't really play enough to ladder, I was pretty proud.
    As my team was built from fixing up my last team, there is no real team building process. So without further ado, here is Team Return of DragoZone! ​
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
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    The strategy for my team is a little different from most offensively-oriented teams. Here it is, in step-by-step detail.
    1) Get up Stealth Rocks. My team forces a lot of switches, and Colbur Berry Azelf deals with almost all common leads very well. Once Rocks, which are a necessity, are up, my team can use its offensive power most effectively.
    2) Inflict as much damage as possible with the combination of offensive Suicune for a bulky stat-upper; TrickScarf Gengar to cripple walls, revenge kill and block Rapid Spin; Choice Band Scizor as a scout and secondary revenge killer; and Magnezone to destroy omnipresent Steel-Types that could ruinate my team.
    3) Once most of mine and my opponent's team has been taken out, I bring out Dragon Dance Dragonite when I see an opportunity to set up. Bringing Dragonite out as late as possible lulls my opponent into a false sense of security - I will not bring Dragonite out even if there is a perfect opportunity to sweep mid-match.
    4) Sweep the remains of my opponent's team.​

    Dragonite is the most effective sweeper I have ever used, and makes a fantastic partner to most of my Pokemon. Rocks is a necessity to have up, as it makes the secondary part of my strategy that much easier. The only time I will bring out Dragonite mid-match is when I know the opponent can sweep my team and Dragonite is the only Pokemon that can stop it. So far, it has happened only once, and I won that battle.​

    Here's my team in further detail.​
    [​IMG]
    Azelf @ Colbur Berry
    [8 HP / 140 ATK / 144 SpD / 216 SPE]
    Jolly Natured
    Levitate
    -Stealth Rock
    -Taunt
    -U-Turn
    -Explosion
    The lead position for my team used to belong to Aerodactyl, but after switching my Celebi to Suicune I found that my team had massive issues with Machamp leads. So, at a suggestion from Smith, I changed to Colbur Lead Azelf. I haven't looked back since. Colbur Azelf deals with almost every lead extremely well, as documented below in my lead threat list. Stealth Rocks are a necessity for my team, and Taunt can prevent slower leads from setting them up too, which is preferable. U-Turn helps form a scouting duo with Scizor, and is just a great move in general. Explosion is the crux of the set, dealing with a few leads early on and scoring me a kill late in the match if I decide to save Azelf. Below is a threat list of the top ten common leads in OU.
    Easy-to-handle leads are in green, ones that require prediction are in orange, and ones that either destroy Azelf or the rest of my team are in red.
    Show Hide

    [​IMG] Azelf - Not particularly difficult. I always U-Turn to break their Sub as they either U-Turn or set up Stealth Rocks, and then switch to the correct counter.
    [​IMG] Aerodactyl - Easy for me to handle. I U-Turn as they Taunt, and switch to Scizor. No Stealth Rock for them, and I have a 6-5 advantage. Although what I've found is that more and more Aero leads are setting up Rocks right off the bat, wary of the above strategy. Either way, I still get an advantage.
    [​IMG] Jirachi - Switch to Magnezone, set up Sub as it Iron Heads. Bye bye.
    [​IMG] Infernape - They'll Fake Out. I set up Rocks as they either do the same or (hopefully) Fire Blast. I then proceed to explode.
    [​IMG] Ninjask - I love how you can Taunt a Subbed Pokemon. This makes Ninjask completely useless, so I can set up Rocks and then U-Turn to Scizor.
    [​IMG] Roserade - Easiest lead for me to handle. I've yet to see a Scarf lead of Roserade, so I just Taunt and set up Rocks.
    [​IMG] Machamp - I Stealth Rock as they Payback, doing a bit more than half damage. From there, it's a bit of a risky move as they may switch to a Ghost-Type as I explode...but that rarely happens. I explode, killing Machamp.
    [​IMG] Swampert - Taunt. Stealth Rock. U-Turn to Suicune.
    [​IMG] Metagross - Switch to Magnezone, and set up a Sub. If they EQ and break the Sub, I Magnet Rise, then Sub again. If not, I Thunderbolt them to death.
    [​IMG] Hippowdon - I see less and less of these...not much trouble at all. Taunt, set up Rocks, and U-Turn out of there.

    [​IMG]
    Suicune @ Leftovers
    [4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SPE]
    Timid Natured
    Pressure
    -Calm Mind
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Hidden Power [Electric]
    After testing out offensive Suicune, I realised it supported my team much more than the beastly Celebi, who usually swept and was killed. Suicune can take attacks aimed for almost all of my Pokemon - its natural bulk is a fantastic asset to my otherwise fairly frail team. After a single Calm Mind, the power of Suicune is undeniable. Almost every single Thunder of Grass attack is special, and as such after a Calm Mind Suicune won't be taking much damage from anything. It can dish out extremely powerful Surfs, and takes out annoying Zapdos with Ice Beam. Hidden Power Electric provides incredible coverage with my other attacks, hitting everything in the game for neutral damage aside from Lanturn and Shedinja. The EVs are obvious for an offensively-oriented Pokemon, and Timid makes Suicune faster than anything else under Base 80 Speed.​
    [​IMG]
    Gengar @ Choice Scarf
    [4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SPE]
    Modest Natured
    Levitate
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Thunderbolt
    -Trick
    TrickScarfing Gengar is one of the most underrated of Gengar's movesets. It's sheer unpredictability is what makes it so powerful - it can now destroy Starmie and Scarf Rotom, cripple walls such as Blissey, Bronzong and Cresselia and act as a fantastic revenge killer-cum-Spin Blocker. I used to use a Sub+Pain Split Gar, but it didn't fit the nature of my team. I use a Modest Nature to inject some more power into its already fearsome Shadow Balls, and because not much is going to outspeed it under a Scarf anyway. Focus Blast is necessary to try and kill Tyranitar that would trap it, and give it a shot against Heatran and Weavile. Trick is the crux of this set, destroying walls, attempts to set up and, really, anything that wouldn't want a Scarf.​
    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Choice Band
    [244 HP / 252 ATK / 12 SPE]
    Adamant Natured
    Technician
    -Bullet Punch
    -U-Turn
    -Pursuit
    -Quick Attack
    How I love thee, Scizor. STAB Technician-boosted Bullet Punch off 591 Attack destroys almost every thing that stands in its way. U-Turn is absurdly powerful as well, and is my primary means of scouting and phazing. Pursuit can trap certain weakened Pokemon (Dusknoir, I'm looking at you), and Superpower is there for killing Tyranitar. I give Scizor more Speed EVs than others because I actually WANT it to go first in the U-Turn battle against other Scizor. That way, I can switch out to an as-yet unrevealed Gengar, who takes very little from U-Turn, and they then switch out to their supposed Gar counter ie. Blissey or Starmie, only to watch in horror as it is crippled or destroyed. ​
    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Leftovers
    [4 DEF / 252 SpA / 252 SPE]
    Timid Natured
    Magnet Pull
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power [Grass]
    -Substitute
    -Magnet Rise
    Magnezone is a necessity on my team for its ability to destroy so many Steel-Type Pokemon that would otherwise give me problems. Thunderbolt is awesomely powerful STAB that can cripple most Steels, as well as a lot of other Pokemon. I set up a Substitute on Steels locked into a move with Scarf or Band, or ones that switch out with U-Turn or Shed Shell, and then proceed to destroy them or their switch in. I use Hidden Power Grass to help alleviate a potential Swampert problem that my team has, as well as hit things that Thunderbolt wouldn't when necessary. Magnet Rise gets rid of the Ground weakness that plagues this Pokemon.
    [​IMG]
    Dragonite @ Leftovers
    [4 HP / 252 ATK / 252 SPE]
    Jolly Natured
    Inner Focus
    -Dragon Dance
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Punch
    Man...the sheer overwhelming ferocity of this thing is incredible. I use a differentiation of the standard bulky DD set, because I don't bring him out until the very late stages of a match. After one Dragon Dance, it can OHKO so many things with near-perfect type coverage...after two Dragon Dances, gg. Every single Pokemon in my team is used as a tool to support the inevitable Dragonite sweep...God, I love this thing.​

    Thanks for reading, I'm once again sorry about the Wall of Text. Fixes would be great, comments too.
    Thanks!​
  2. [Zangoose]

    [Zangoose]

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    95
    THREAT LIST

    Here's a list of most of the OU Pokemon...and some others I felt needed to be in here.
    Pokemon in black are not considered threatening to my team.
    Pokemon in orange can be threatening, and require prediction to KO.
    Pokemon in red are not easily KO'd, and can crush my team if allowed.
    Also, this is a threat list whilst Celebi is still in my team, if I swap it for Suicune, I will update.

    Offensive Threats:

    [​IMG] - Azelf: Leads are easily shut down by Aero. Its frailty is capitalised on by most of my team.
    [​IMG] - Breloom: Isn't this annoying to every team? It does very little to Gengar, which I think can OHKO with Shadow Ball, but most often it puts something to sleep.
    [​IMG] - Dragonite: Not many people expect Celebi to have HP Ice. It usually doesn't have much of a chance to set up, so not much of a problem.
    [​IMG] - Dugtrio: Of the ones I've seen, it can trap Magnezone, Celebi and Scizor...It kills Zone, hurts Celebi with Sucker Punch and does nothing to Scizor. Listed as a potential threat because of the Zone-killing power, and Magnezone is a fairly important part of my DragoZone core.
    [​IMG] - Electivire: Meh. It's annoying if it comes in on a Thunderbolt, but Celebi can KO with Earth Power, and Shadow Ball does heaps.
    [​IMG] - Gallade: Never really seen this outside the lead position. Scizor has fun U-Turning, and Celebi does MASSIVE DAMAGE with Leaf Storm.
    [​IMG] - Gengar: My Gengar almost always outspeeds - I've only ever seen one other Choice Scarf Gengar, and that time he went first and Tricked me. Other than that, Scizor can Pursuit or Bullet Punch if I suspect HP Fire, and it does nothing to Magnezone and Dragonite.
    [​IMG] - Gyarados: Gengar is an awesome revenge killer - they almost always stay in after a DD, in which that time I Thunderbolt their slow asses. Celebi also does heaps with Leaf Storm.
    [​IMG] - Heatran: Scarf variants are easy to predict after a single attack, and every other version is destroyed by Celebi's Earth Power and Gengar's Focus Blast.
    [​IMG] - Heracross: Celebi has Psychic, Gengar outspeeds and does heaps with Shadow Ball, Scizor Bullet Punches...you get what I'm saying.
    [​IMG] - Infernape: Can be a problem. Gengar outspeeds and does a lot with Shadow Ball, almost always leaving it in the >5% range, but chances are Gengar will die. Leads aren't a problem for Aero, though.
    [​IMG] - Kingdra: Can be annoying. Leaf Storm OHKOs, and Shadow Ball does a lot. I think Magnezone can survive a Waterfall and hit hard with Thunderbolt or Explode. If I let it DD one too many times it becomes majorly threatening, but that doesn't happen too often.
    [​IMG] - Lucario: Like Infernape, only less threatening and easier to kill. Earth Power destroys it, same with Earthquake.
    [​IMG] - Machamp: Leads completely destroy Aero, whereby I then switch in Celebi and hope to God that Psychic KOs. If it doesn't, Celebi is destroyed by Payback, and I lose a very important Pokemon. If I do switch to Suicune, I hope to God it can't do much...
    [​IMG] - Magnezone: My Magnezone can hurt it a lot. Also, it does nothing to Celebi and Earth Power.
    [​IMG] - Mamoswine: One of the major threats to Dragonite, although that's really the only thing. Ice Shard doesn't do much to Celebi, which replies with a nice little Leaf Storm. Gengar can 2HKO with Shadow Ball, too.
    [​IMG] - Metagross: Leads don't generally carry EQ, so I just switch to Magnezone right off the bat. Other versions are decimated by Earth Power, Earthquake and Shadow Ball.
    [​IMG] - Porygon-Z: Can work around it fairly easily with prediction. With Specs variants, Magnezone can take Thunderbolts and Scizor can take Ice Beams. Any other one can be destroyed by Celebi.
    [​IMG] - Scizor: Magnezone traps it, and goodbye.
    [​IMG] - Starmie: I dislike LO variants a lot. When I can muscle in a Gengar, it gets outsped and OHKO'd, but that's really one of the only counters I have. I can send out Scizor and hope to God Hydro Pump misses, but Gengar is my best bet.
    [​IMG] - Togekiss: Magnezone OHKOs with Thunderbolt. Scizor doesn't mind being paralysed and does heaps with Bullet Punch, and Gengar has Thunderbolt too.
    [​IMG] - Tyranitar: Scizor is my best bet. Celebi and Gengar can get "trapped", but they can both OHKO with Leaf Storm and Focus Blast (if it hits) respectively.
    [​IMG] - Weavile: Counter has gone up in usage on these things, which sucks...I usually get Scizor out, use U-Turn and send in Gengar as it Counters, doing nothing, and then finish it with Shadow Ball.
    [​IMG] - Yanmega: I almost always have Rocks up, so one hit and this thing dies. Scizor can Bullet Punch it to death, Gengar outspeeds, and Magnezone doesn't take much damage from anything aside from HP Ground.
    [​IMG] - Zapdos: Can be troublesome. If it gets out a Sub, I have to work around it a bit. Usually Gengar survives a Thunderbolt (I think) and 2HKOs with Shadow Ball.

    Defensive Threats

    [​IMG]- Blissey: Scizor completely destroys it, and Gengar has Trick.
    [​IMG]- Bronzong: Utterly susceptible to Magnezone, as long as it doesn't carry EQ. If it does, I switch to Gengar and Trick it.
    [​IMG]- Celebi: My Celebi beats it. If it is another LO Celebi, switch to Gengar on the HP Fire (if my Celebi is against it) and Shadow Ball it to death.
    [​IMG]- Cresselia: Gengar destroys this one, as well as Scizor.
    [​IMG]- Donphan: Celebi can survive an Ice Shard and KO with Psychic. If I'm wrong, it OHKOs with Leaf Storm.
    [​IMG]- Dusknoir: When weakened, Scizor traps and destroys with Pursuit. Though Celebi gets hit hard with Shadow Sneak, it returns the favour with Leaf Storm.
    [​IMG]- Forretress: Magnezone traps and destroys with Thunderbolt.
    [​IMG]- Gliscor: Leads are shut down by Aero...any other version doesn't expect a HP Ice to da face from Celebi.
    [​IMG]- Hippowdon: Does nothing to Celebi, who does a whole lot back. Leaf Storm for the KO.
    [​IMG]- Jirachi: Magnezone traps Scarf variants, if it isn't Scarfed, it just U-Turns out, doing nothing.
    [​IMG]- Rotom-A: Gengar outspeeds all variants and OHKOs with Shadow Ball. Leaf Storm does craploads, too, mostly OHKOing.
    [​IMG]- Skarmory: Magnezone either traps it or forces a switch if it's holding Shed Shell. Either way, I win.
    [​IMG]- Snorlax: Like Blissey, only musclier. I can scout for Fire Punch, and if it doesn't have it, Scizor comes in with Bullet Punch. That's really all I can do to it, aside from Tricking it.
    [​IMG]- Suicune: Very susceptible to Trick. Leaf Storm does heaps, even with a Calm Mind.
    [​IMG]- Swampert: Celebi is my main counter to this. Magnezone has HP Grass, so if I can weaken it, it can KO.
    [​IMG]- Tentacruel: Annoying...very annoying. Although Toxic Spikes does absolutely nothing to my team (the only Pokemon affected is Celebi, who is cured upon switching out), Tentacruel can be a bitch to take down. Two Earth Powers usually do the trick. Speaking of which, Trick cripples it too.
    [​IMG]- Vaporeon: Only the most specially defensive variants are not OHKOd by Leaf Storm. Magnezone also has fun with the blue dog.
    [​IMG]- Zapdos: See above...

    Just one more thing. All these Pokemon can be easily destroyed by Dragonite after two Dragon Dances...I just have to watch out for priority! XD. Thanks for reading.
  3. Faladran

    Faladran
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,139
    Hello,

    This team brings back a lot of memories of the old Salazone days, so it's pretty nostalgic for me. You've got the Dragonite + Magnezone combo that resists every type in the game, along with pretty good support members. I do have a couple of suggestions though, so I'll get to my rate.

    Notable Threats

    • Heatran
    I wanted to point out that your team has a pretty major weakness to strong Fire-based moves. Since Aerodactyl functions as a suicide lead, the only thing left that resists Fire after it dies is Dragonite. This puts Dragonite under a lot of pressure to take these attacks, since every other team member can be OHKO'd by a strong Fire Blast or Overheat. However, Dragonite also has to function as the late-game sweeper, which means after switching into Stealth Rock and taking Fire attacks so often, it won't be able to serve its purpose effectively.

    • LO Starmie / Jolteon
    Starmie is a major threat to a lot of teams, and this situation is no exception. Every member of your is 2HKO'd by a Life Orb Starmie, and a lot of switching or a sacrifice is needed to get Gengar in to kill it with Shadow Ball.

    Jolteon is somewhat similar to Starmie in regards to being a fast special sweeper with good coverage. It commonly carries moves that will also 2HKO most of your team members, with the exception of Magnezone. However, Magnezone is typically a Pokemon that should be kept unrevealed except to kill Steel-types, and Jolteon could therefore put you in an awkward position.

    Suggestions

    • Use Offensive Suicune over Celebi
    I try to make it a habit not to suggest too many total replacements, as this can significantly alter the style of the team. However, I feel that Celebi's typing is too similar to Scizor's, and the lack of Fire-type resists is really hindering this team's effectiveness. An easy way to fix this would be to try out an Offensive Suicune over Celebi's spot, which makes a great switch-in to Fire attacks, as well as functioning as a powerful yet bulky stat-up sweeper. Here is the set:

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    After a single Calm Mind, opposing LO Starmie's Thunderbolt will only deal 39.2% - 46.2%, while you can OHKO back with HP Electric. Suicune also makes a great check and counter to Gyarados, which will take some pressure off of Gengar, who you currently depend on to provide revenge killing.

    • Try Quick Attack over Superpower on Scizor
    This is a very minor change, but I would recommend using Quick Attack on Scizor. You've mentioned Superpower as a way to kill Tyranitar, but Bullet Punch is the far superior option in that regard. Quick Attack will help out some in dealing with Jolteon and Starmie, as it will deal more damage than a resisted Bullet Punch and can be used to finish them off.


    Good luck with your team!
  4. Starbuck

    Starbuck

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    308
    I find Hidden Power Fire to be the most efficient on Magnezone; the OHKOs on Scizor and Forretress are really convenient. Also consider Magnet Rise > Explosion, because now Magenzone can destroy any Metagross bar AgiliGross. Sorry I can't help with your other problems, but that Magenzone should do a bit better than your current one.
  5. [Zangoose]

    [Zangoose]

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    95
    Yeah, I find I do have a fairly major Fire weakness...although Infernape and Heatran aren't massive threats, I usually lose one Pokemon taking them down.
    Offensive Suicune sounds cool, I'll try it out. I'll immediately make the change to Quick Attack, I never use Superpower much anyway.

    HP Fire is the Hidden Power I currently use, it does seem to be the most effective. I'll try out Magnet Rise, though Exploding is my kind of play style...XD

    Thanks for fixes, any more? I'm working on the threat list.
  6. Davy Jones

    Davy Jones

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    130
    First off, after Celebi or Suicune has been KOd, Swampert is going to wall you all day long. If it has Protect, it can avoid Gengar's Trick and switch to something that traps it, such as Choiced Tyranitar, so even Gengar can't cripple it if the opponent uses a little prediction. Since Stealth Rock isn't a huge threat to your team, I'd suggest leading with a Life Orb Heatran. It has better synergy with the rest of your team than Aerodactyl does as well. Here's the set:

    Heatran@ Life Orb
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Spe/252 SAtk/4 SDef
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Stealth Rock

    This set will allow you to destroy Swampert right from the start, while matching up well against most other leads.

    Also, I find Hidden Power Grass to be more effective on Magnezone than Hidden Power Fire, since you really don't need the OHKO on Scizor. Hidden Power Grass allows you to hit Ground-types immune to Thunderbolt for decent damage.

    Finally, Specially-based mixed Infernape causes you a whole bunch of problems. To solve this, I'd suggest using Vaporeon over Suicune/Celebi. Life Orb Starmie's Thunderbolt is still very likely to 2HKO Suicune if they attack before you use Calm Mind, so unless you've used Calm Mind before Starmie switches in, Starmie is still going to win. This Vaporeon set can counter Infernape quite well, since Grass Knot only has 60 Base Power against Vaporeon. It also provides Wish to the rest of your team, alleviating Dragonite's problem with Stealth Rock. Here's the set:

    Vaporeon@ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/68 Spe
    -Wish
    -Protect
    -Surf
    -Hidden Power [Electric] / Roar / Yawn

    Hidden Power Electric keeps Gyarados at bay, while Yawn and Roar work as phazing moves.
  7. [Zangoose]

    [Zangoose]

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    95
    Still haven't decided on whether to use Celebi or Suicune, they both fulfill different roles and both really help my team...I'll come back to that one after a bit more playing around.
    Just finished testing out LO Heatran, it doesn't do well against many leads I go up against, and if I use Suicune I don't really need it as a Fire resist. I'll keep playing around with it, but Stealth Rock are a necessity for my team and I want them up as early as possible...
    I've never really had a problem with SpecialApe. I'm pretty sure Gengar can KO with Shadow Ball after Rocks damage, if I just get it to absorb a Close Combat aimed at something. I'll change Magnezone's HP to Grass, when it can then (with prediction) take down Swampert. Vaporeon doesn't seem to suit my team, but I'll play around. Thanks for the fixes, any more?
  8. [Zangoose]

    [Zangoose]

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    95
    Sorry about the double post.
    Just finished my threat list with Celebi in mind, only to realise that I will use Suicune over it after all! Damn that's annoying...
    I'll modify the threat list after a bit more playing, but Suicune seems to have alleviated my Fire problem, and helps a whole lot more against Starmie and Zapdos. Thanks! Any more fixes?
  9. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,341
    Hey I got your message, and yes I am very reminded of the old Salazone days, the days of Gengar + Magnezone + Salamence + Scizor cores. This team is very solid so I won't try to change too much.

    Firstly, Machamp is probably the most easily fixable problem. Allow me to say that I personally dislike Aerodactyl as a lead, he just gets up sr and dies, wouldn't you want something more fulfulling? Hence my next suggestion, try a Colbur Azelf lead in his place. This lead combines the speed of suicide leads with the bulk to keep Machamp from raping you and your team. He can also fight off Infernapes in the early game.

    That aside, Kingdra is probably the team's biggest threat. Have you considered Roar on Suciune over Hidden Power? No gyarados is going to stay in just to taunt you, so usually roar handles them sufficiently while also helping you immensely with Kingdra.

    Sorry for the short rate, I got some other stuff to do and honestly the team looks really solid, hope this helps.
  10. [Zangoose]

    [Zangoose]

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    95
    Thanks Smith, I'll test out Colbur Azelf. Roar seems like a sensible option, although I have been finding problems with Empoleon behind a Sub when using it. Magnezone is 2HKOd (or even OHKOd) by Hydro Pump, and Suicune behind a Calm Mind takes little from Grass Knot, and can hit back hard with HP Electric.
    Also, changed the name of the thread, this new one just sounds cooler.
  11. [Zangoose]

    [Zangoose]

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    95
    Ok, triple post is bad, but made some considerable changes.
    Changed lead to Colbur Azelf after working out that Machamp gives me major problems with no Celebi.
    Am done changing threat list, will update now.
  12. Deinosaur

    Deinosaur GO GOOMY
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    593
    I agree, I think that you should run roar over hp for suicune as it may be able to help you remove breloom and set up as it tries to come back in. Sorry that I couldn't be of more help, but I see this as a very good team. May I test it? PM or VM as I probably won't be back here
  13. [Zangoose]

    [Zangoose]

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    95
    Yeah, I'll test out Roar. I don't really use HP Electric all that much, and if I do it's against Starmie after like 3 Calm Minds, who I'd probably 2HKO with Surf anyway. Any other suggestions? I seem to have a problem with physical Infernape who run Overheat, Stone Edge, Close Combat and whatever else.

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