[OU] Scizor Sweep Anyone?

[arsyniiC]

Alright. My first RMT. Let's get to it.

At a Glance:
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Team Building Process:

I wanted to build a team around Scizor due to the fact that it could
easily sweep a team after it set up. The setting up wasn't going to be
that hard if I had Scizor's weaknesses covered. Fire, being a very
common counter to Scizor, was a problem. I started out using Latias
but I didn't really like her(?) so I decided to go with the ever
famous Heatran (yay!). I also wanted to set up toxic spikes, which
Roserade does PERFECTLY, and have a rapid spin blocker so my ever
precious toxic spikes would stay. I started with Dusknior but it just
seemed that Dusknior was to slow and got picked off to easily so I
decided to go with Rotom-C. I also wanted a bulky water to cover some
of Heatran's weaknesses and Vaporeon fit the slot perfectly. Massive
HP and Spec. Def. were the main selling points. To fill the final spot
for my team, I wanted a Spiker and a Toxic Inducer for those elusive
flying types that are immune to my spikes. So without further ado, on
the the RMT!!

The Lead

Roserade @ Focus Sash
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid [+Speed -Attack]
- Sleep Powder
- Toxic Spikes
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leaf Storm

The most important part, in my opinion, of a team. The lead. I wanted
my lead to be able to set up a form of spikes while crippling the
other teams lead. Roserade fit this perfectly with its decent speed
and high special attack. It sets up toxic spikes fast while sleeping
the other teams lead. Yeah, moveset is standard, but who cares? It
gets the job done.


The Core

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Nature: Impish [+Defense -Special Attack]
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Roost

Aside from Roserade, Skarmory gives my team a much needed advantage.
Toxic is there for Flying types that are immune to toxic spikes and
taunt is there to prevent other Skarmory from setting up! Roost is
there to help with stalling with toxic and Spikes is there for obvious
reasons. Without spikes, many 2HKOs turn into OHKOs for Scizor.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Def / 128 Spe
Nature: Calm [+Special Defense -Attack]
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Roar

Vaporeon plays a very important role in my team. She helps take water
attacks directed at Heatran and breaks baton pass chains and stops
other pokemon from setting up on a pokemon in my team that it can
wall. Substitute is helpful for baton passing to a pokemon (usually
Scizor) to help get a free turn to set up. HP [Electric] is there for
cocky waters/flyings that think they can come in and wall my
wall.

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Abilty: Flash Fire
Nature: Rash
- Fire Blast
- Explosion
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse

Heatran is an important part of my pokemon team. He provides an
immunity to fire that is ever so important to my x6 weak fire team. I
usually come in on a resisted attack and revenge kill or force a switch
out and spread the toxic spikes love. I chose rash nature over naive
to do as much damage to the opposing pokemon as possible. With Fire Flash
boost and STAB, Fire Blast does MASSIVE damage. Explosion was a risky
move for me to choose because of the prediction needed to pull it off
because if they switched into a bulky resisting pokemon like Rhyperior
or a ghost type, I wasted a Heatran. :(

Rotom-C @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Discharge
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

I needed an anti-spinner for my team so my precious spikes wouldn't be
gone. Rotom-C fit perfectly. I went with Discharge over Thunderbolt
because of the 30% paralysis and Hidden Power [Fighting] over Hidden
Power [Ice] and Leaf Storm because of the fact that T-Tar is a pretty
common switch in to Rotom because it has access to Crunch.
Will-O-Wisp is there for the flyers who avoid spikes and don't want any
of the toxic love. Shadow Ball is there for a strong STAB attack.


The Sweeper

Scizor @ Iron Plate
Ability: Technician
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Nature: Adamant [+Attack -Special Attack]
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break
- Roost
- Swords Dance

*Cues the tension building music* Fairly straight forward. Come in on
a resisted attack, Swords Dance, Swords Dance, if possible, Swords Dance
again, Bullet Punch, ect, ect. I chose Scizor over other pokemon like
Lucario because of the higher base attack and the fact that it could
abuse Bullet Punch with Iron Plate and Technician. Roost is there to
recover from some damage taken while setting up and Brick Break is there
to break Screens and to take care of pokemon that resist steel but
get SPANKED by fighting.

---

So that's my team. Any weaknesses that could be covered would be
greatly appreciated. Any improvements/constructive criticism would be
super duper :D. Thanks!​

 

[Abutorn]

Hey nice team got going on here, needs some ajustments. I'm going to analyze this team for you pretty quickly.

Currently your team gets swept by common dragon dancers, namely Gyarados and Salamence. So first what you might want to do is change is Rotom into a scarfer, It might not take your Salamence away but It'll help definitly if it's stuck on Outrage. So the new Rotom set you might want to try is this:

Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 SpAtt / 252 Spd
Moveset: Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Leaf Storm, Trick

You don't currently explain the moveset on Roserade or why you have Hidden power Fire, you definitly want to change it to Hidden power Ground if I'm sure your point is to hit Steels, and so change it to also hit the Common ShucaTran lead. For Skarmory you definitly want to change Toxic into Whirlwind because your current Vaporeon set doesn't make any sense and it's only soul purpose is to apperently help tran while it's on a scarf trying to baton pass into a sub. Vaporeons only attack is Hidden power Electric won't be affecting many things at all, so what I currently think you should be doing is change The whole entire Vaporeon set and then switch Roar and put Toxic (Just switching moves with Skarmory to make your team have more use) So here's the moveset you might want to be using:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
EVs: 188 Hp / 252 Def / 68 SpDef
Moveset: Wish, Protect, Toxic, Surf

Good luck with your team in the future.

 

[arsyniiC]

Hey nice team got going on here, needs some ajustments. I'm going to analyze this team for you pretty quickly.

Currently your team gets swept by common dragon dancers, namely Gyarados and Salamence. So first what you might want to do is change is Rotom into a scarfer, It might not take your Salamence away but It'll help definitly if it's stuck on Outrage. So the new Rotom set you might want to try is this:

Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 SpAtt / 252 Spd
Moveset: Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Leaf Storm, Trick

You don't currently explain the moveset on Roserade or why you have Hidden power Fire, you definitly want to change it to Hidden power Ground if I'm sure your point is to hit Steels, and so change it to also hit the Common ShucaTran lead. For Skarmory you definitly want to change Toxic into Whirlwind because your current Vaporeon set doesn't make any sense and it's only soul purpose is to apperently help tran while it's on a scarf trying to baton pass into a sub. Vaporeons only attack is Hidden power Electric won't be affecting many things at all, so what I currently think you should be doing is change The whole entire Vaporeon set and then switch Roar and put Toxic (Just switching moves with Skarmory to make your team have more use) So here's the moveset you might want to be using:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
EVs: 188 Hp / 252 Def / 68 SpDef
Moveset: Wish, Protect, Toxic, Surf

Good luck with your team in the future.

Vappy is there with it's HP [Electric] to take care of Bulky waters like Gyara and other Vaporeon. I'll try switching Roar with Toxic and giving Toxic to Skarm and maybe incorperate Wish. Roserade has HP [Fire] to take care of other Grass/Steel leads like Metagross and other Roserade. I'll test out HP [Ground] and get back to you on it :)

 

[mtr]

K, there are a few problems here.

1) Your team suffers against stall, and you don't actually develop your chosen strategy of a Scizor sweep offensively, though you do cover its defensive weaknesses.

2) You don't have Stealth Rock, which is unforgivable. That move is brokenly good.

So let's fix this. You're team isn't weak to Gyarados because of Rotom, so there's no reason for Vaporeon to be here. Use this instead.

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 82 Atk/252 Spd/176 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Brick Break
- Roost
---

Since the dawn of DP, this has been the best stallbreaker in the game. Put it over Vaporeon for a more offensive lean to your team, while Brick Break deals with Blissey and Dual Screen teams.

As for Stealth Rock, throw it on Skarmory over Toxic, which really isn't necessary for this team. Taunt/Toxic Skarm is mainly for Semistall teams looking for an edge against other stall teams.

 

[ginganinja]

Well this is a nice team. I would like to suggest a Subcharge Set for Rotom as it works wonderfully with toxic spikes and can give your team extra offense

 

[arsyniiC]

K, there are a few problems here.

1) Your team suffers against stall, and you don't actually develop your chosen strategy of a Scizor sweep offensively, though you do cover its defensive weaknesses.

2) You don't have Stealth Rock, which is unforgivable. That move is brokenly good.

So let's fix this. You're team isn't weak to Gyarados because of Rotom, so there's no reason for Vaporeon to be here. Use this instead.

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 82 Atk/252 Spd/176 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Brick Break
- Roost
---

Since the dawn of DP, this has been the best stallbreaker in the game. Put it over Vaporeon for a more offensive lean to your team, while Brick Break deals with Blissey and Dual Screen teams.

As for Stealth Rock, throw it on Skarmory over Toxic, which really isn't necessary for this team. Taunt/Toxic Skarm is mainly for Semistall teams looking for an edge against other stall teams.

I tried your Salamence and I liked it. I just lost an immunity to water that I always enjoyed having. Stealth Rocks with Spikes didn't really work out because I had to much to set up and I usually got Stealth Rocks or one layer of spikes and then I died. Two layers of spikes is better than Stealth Rocks in the long run. I'll do some more testing and give you a better analysis.

Well this is a nice team. I would like to suggest a Subcharge Set for Rotom as it works wonderfully with toxic spikes and can give your team extra offense

SubRotom doesn't fit in with this team because the only reason I have a Rotom is to block rapid spins and take care of the occasional water. I don't usually plan to keep Rotom in for long.

 

[Arkeis]

Two layers of spikes is better than Stealth Rocks in the long run.

No it isn't. You have nothing to hit Flying or Levitating Pokemon. Gyarados, Zapdos, and Rotom are huge Scizor counters and without Stealth Rock, they can keep switching in and out without having to worry about losing their health. Use Stealth Rock over Toxic on Skarmory. Most of Skarmory's counters are Steel type or have Natural Cure, so they wouldn't care about Toxic anyways.

 

[Enygma]

Hiya.

I'm glad to see someone attempt to build a Scizor team because it is a very easy team to set-up and sweep. I, myself, learned about the DPPt metagame via a Scizor team way back when.

Anyways, this team seems heavily weak to stall, as well as Ape. Ape can come in 4/6 of your team and at least injure something. You might say that Vaporeon is a great counter to your Ape problem, but let me provide some calcs:

• Special MixApe Close Combat vs your current Vaporeon = 183 - 216 (42.3% - 49.9%)
• Special MixApe Grass Knot vs your current Vaporeon = 154 - 182 (35.6% - 42%)
• Physical MixApe Close Combat vs your current Vaporeon = 214 - 253 (49.4% - 58.4%)
• Physical MixApe Close Combat vs your current Vaporeon = 128 - 152 (29.6% - 35.1%)

What this basically means is this: your Ape has a chance to deal almost 50% to your Vaporeon via Close Combat on the switch and proceed to finish it off with Grass Knot. If the opponent has SR on the field, then it basically means a 100% chance of 2hko.

To help remedy this, I will suggest a Latias over Vaporeon, simply because you need your Ape counter to be able to hit shit. Since it seems like Vaporeon exists to buff up your team via Wish support, I will recommend a WishRoar Latias. WishRoar Latias will be able to pHaze away the likes of CM Latias that your team seems to have trouble with. You should also test out Specs Latias just for some extra power if you feel like you need it.

Latias l Leftovers l Levitate
Timid l 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
Wish l Dragon Pulse l Roar l Thunder Wave

I simply maxed out your HP and Speed so that you can be able to at least speed-tie other Scarfless Latias' as well as Scarfless Gengars. Of course, you also beat Scarfless HP Fire Gengar and Latias, which the ability to outspeed the latter will prove to be helpful to your Scizor sweep. Also, by using Latias over Vaporeon, you will have an answer to DD menaces that your team seems to have problems with. Of course, with +1 under their belts, your Latias might fail to deal with them, but adding a Scarf to Latias will still allow you to revenge them even with +1. So test out WishRoar, Scarf, and Specs to see what helps your team more.

Another suggestion to help your team would be to combine the roles of Roserade and Skarmory into one Pokemon: Forretress. By doing so, you will free up another slot in either your bench or lead position. You currently lack an efficient Adamant SD Lucario counter, since ATM, your Rotom's HP Fighting and T-Bolt deals a maximum of about 60%, while Lucario will outspeed your 88 Speed Rotom as well as 2hko with Crunch. So to help fix this, I will (obviously) suggest removing Roserade and Skarmory for Forretress, and shoving Gliscor in the mix. Gliscor will usually (99.9% of the time, unless your name is Blue Harvest and you use Bulky Shuca Luke) efficiently counter Adamant Lucario, since usuall Jolly will carry Ice Punch>Crunch. Gliscor also performs the role of shutting down StockPileDon leads the same as Roserade. However, you become more open to stall leads with Swampert, since you lack any other answer to it barring Rotom.

On Scizor, I suggest placing those Speed EVs into somewhere else, maybe HP? You need to be outpaced by other Scizor that carry Superpower so that you can abuse the -1 drop and just Roost up the damage. Then rinse and repeat until the Superpower only deals less than 50% while you set up SDs all over its ass.

Other than that, I hope I helped.

 

[Pollux-Castor]

You might say that Vaporeon is a great counter to your Ape problem, but let me provide some calcs:

• NP Ape Close Combat vs your current Vaporeon = 183 - 216 (42.3% - 49.9%)

• NP Ape Grass Knot vs your current Vaporeon = 154 - 182 (35.6% - 42%)

What this basically means is this: your Ape has a chance to deal almost 50% to your Vaporeon via Close Combat on the switch and proceed to finish it off with Grass Knot. If the opponent has SR on the field, then it basically means a 100% chance of 2hko.

Why would he wait for Infernape to get a Nasty Plot in then decide to try countering him? (unless GK does 42% unboosted) And 50%+42% is 92%. Stealth Rock does 12.5% and Leftovers heals 6.25%, leaving him with about 2% health after stealth rock and leftovers and both those attacks. I suppose Sandstorm would finally get him, but the fight is on his side overall, especially with a Sleep Powder lead maybe preventing Stealth Rock. --- Misa Campo's other suggestions are good though.

Also, I don't understand your logic when you replace Leaf Storm with HP Fighting for Tyranitar switch-ins. They do the same damage to him. Might as well use a different form like Heat to fool the opponent, if you must use HP Fighting.

I also sign on with the need for Stealth Rock. DD Salamence could kick your ass because she outspeeds all Heatran with a dance. Then Bullet Punch is probably too weak to take her out. I suppose you could play games with her with tricky switching but you will take serious damage anyway. Stripping 25% from her and 12.5% from many others is probably a good idea.

I assume you will pass the Sub to Scizor, but at average speed you might easily find it wasted. I am not even sure she is the best passer because they might send someone like Magnezone to counter her which is not the nicest guy for Scizor to face. You are probably better off passing a Wish to Scizor so the standard Vaporeon set is fine. Surf is important. Maybe Roar over Protect.

 

[Itchni]

I just have a question, what do you do about other rotom forms? It is very common and nothing on your team really has a huge advantage to it?

 

[ginganinja]

Why would he wait for Infernape to get a Nasty Plot in then decide to try countering him? (unless GK does 42% unboosted) And 50%+42% is 92%. Stealth Rock does 12.5% and Leftovers heals 6.25%, leaving him with about 2% health after stealth rock and leftovers and both those attacks. I suppose Sandstorm would finally get him, but the fight is on his side overall, especially with a Sleep Powder lead maybe preventing Stealth Rock.

Well he could Close Combat twice, which with SR I thnk is a 2KO, im pretty sure anyway.

Anyway the point is that his Vaporeon does f**k all to Infernape o its hardly even a counter to it...

Also I don't see why the subCharge set I suggested does not work, because you wanted a spin blocker... SubCharge Rotom is still a spin blocker and can sweep later game when your opponients team has been scouted

Misa has given you awesome advice, use it

 

[Enygma]

Why would he wait for Infernape to get a Nasty Plot in then decide to try countering him? (unless GK does 42% unboosted) And 50%+42% is 92%. Stealth Rock does 12.5% and Leftovers heals 6.25%, leaving him with about 2% health after stealth rock and leftovers and both those attacks. I suppose Sandstorm would finally get him, but the fight is on his side overall, especially with a Sleep Powder lead maybe preventing Stealth Rock. --- Misa Campo's other suggestions are good though.

I forgot to mention that those calcs that I provided are only when Ape DOESN'T have +1 NP.

I should have said MixApe instead of NP Ape, since MixApe will be more likely to Close Combat as he switches into Vaporeon.

 

[arsyniiC]

Thanks guys for all the responses. I'll try all of them out and get back to you on it :)

 

[Prownage89]

generic much?

 

[arsyniiC]

Nothing generic. Just thanking for help.

 

[Prownage89]

scizor sweep is everywhere. I am sorry man. This isn't flaming. i am just remarking how the OU metagame is almost exactly the same. It is all T-Tar, Salamence, Scizor, and the works.

 

[butterfingers158]

scizor sweep is everywhere. I am sorry man. This isn't flaming. i am just remarking how the OU metagame is almost exactly the same. It is all T-Tar, Salamence, Scizor, and the works.

False, few teams are running SD scizor as their main sweeper. Having scizor on your team is different than basing a team on him.

 

[arsyniiC]

So anyways. I was thinking of going with an Anti-Lead DNite and subbing Forretress for Vaporeon. Thoughts??

Dragonite @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 HP
Nature: Quiet
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- ExtremeSpeed
- Earthquake

 

[YounhaJjang]

I find the lack of SR on any team with a Scizor for a sweeper disturbing. And I don't get how you have the time to set-up multiple layers of Spikes and not have 1 turn to set up SR. It's 1 turn of set-up that screws a boatload of pokemon that check SD-Scizor. Strips 25%hp of Gyar, Mence (although Mence has no business switching into +2 BPunch his Flamethrower will OHKO you) and Zapdos and also pseudo-checks Dragon Dance versions of the former two.