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OU Speed Tiers

Discussion in 'Articles and Letters' started by alexwolf, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Just putting up the skeleton for now. The first thing we need to decide before i start filling in the tiers is what the tiers should be in the first place, so this is the thing that i would like to see discussed atm.

    OU Speed Tiers

    By alexwolf.

    1. Introduction
    2. Tier 1 (> Max Base 130 Speed)
    3. Tier 2 (Max Base 108 to Max Base 130 Speed)
    4. Tier 3 (Max Base 80 to Max Base 107 Speed)
    5. Tier 4 (?)
    6. Tier 5 (?)
    Introduction

    Speed / Name / Base / Nature / EVs / Boost

    Tier 1 (> Max Base 130 Speed)

    700 / Jumpluff / 110 / Positive / 252 / 2
    662 / Landorus, Thundurus-T / 101 / Positive / 252 / 2
    656 / Volcarona / 100 / Positive / 252 / 2
    638 / Jumpluff / 110 / Neutral / 252 / 2
    622 / Dragonite / 80 / Positive / 124 / 3
    612 / Moltres / 90 / Positive / 252 / 2
    604 / Lilligant, Volcarona / 90 / Positive / 156(2), 236(1), 240(1 with 30 Spe IVs) / 2
    598 / Volcarona / 100 / Neutral / 252 / 2
    590 / Kingdra / 85 / Positive / 252 / 2
    580 / Landorus, Thundurus-T / 101 / Neutral / 208 / 2
    578 / Sharpedo / 95 / Neutral / 252 / 2
    574 / Gyarados / 81 / Positive / 252 / 2
    568 / Dragonite / 80 / Positive / 252 / 2
    558 / Moltres** / 90 / Positive / 252 / 2
    543 / Ninjask / 160 / Neutral / 24 / 1
    541 / Raikou, Starmie / 115 / Positive / 252 / 1
    540 / Landorus-T, Thundurus-T / 91, 101 / Neutral / 128(2), 208(1) / 2
    528 / Gyarados, Lilligant, Volcarona / 81, 90, 100 / Neutral(2,3), Positive(1,3) / 16(3), 112(3), 168(1), 192(2), 196(2 with 30 Spe IVs) / 2
    526 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 228 / 2
    525 / Gengar, Latios** / 110 / Positive / 252 / 1
    522 / Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 252 / 2
    519 / Infernape, Keldeo, Terrakion / 108 / Positive / 252 / 1
    518 / Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 2
    508 / Mienshao, Zoroark / 105 / Positive / 252 / 1
    506 / Sharpedo / 95 / Neutral / 2
    499 / Garchomp / 102 / Positive / 252 / 1
    498 / Dragonite / 80 / Positive / 124 / 2
    496 / Landorus, Thundurus-T / 101 / Positive / 252 / 1
    493 / Raikou / 115 / Neutral / 252 / 1
    492 / Celebi, Jirachi, Staraptor, Volcarona, Victini / 100 / Positive / 252 / 1
    483 / Haxorus / 97 / Positive / 252 / 1
    475 / Darmanitan, Kyurem, Kyurem-B / 95 / Positive / 252 / 1
    463 / Rotom / 91 / Positive / 252 / 1
    453 / Lilligant, Volcarona / 90 / Positive / 236 / 1
    451 / Landorus-T / 91 / Positive / 224 / 1
    449 / Jirachi, Staraptor, Victini / 100 / Neutral / 252 / 1
    447 / Rotom-C, Rotom-W / 86 / Positive / 252 / 1
    442 / Heracross / 85 / Positive / 252 / 1
    439 / Haxorus / 97 / Neutral / 252 / 1
    433 / Darmanitan, Kyurem, Kyurem-B, Sharpedo / 95 / Neutral / 252 / 1
    430 / Gyarados / 81 / Positive / 252 / 1
    426 / Dragonite / 80 / Positive / 252 / 1
    406 / Rotom-C / 86 / Neutral / 252 / 1
    403 / Heracross / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 1
    397 / Lilligant* / 90 / Positive / 196 / 1
    396 / Gyarados, Lilligant, Volcarona / 81, 90, 100 / Neutral(2,3), Positive(1,3) / 16(3), 112(3), 168(1), 192(2), 196(2 with 30 Spe IVs) / 1

    Tier 2 (Max Base 108 to Max Base 130 Speed)

    394 / Aerodactyl, Crobat, Jolteon / 130 / Positive / 252 / 0
    391 / Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 252 / 1
    388 / Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 1
    383 / Weavile / 125 / Positive / 252 / 0
    379 / Sharpedo / 95 / Neutral / 108 / 1
    373 / Accelgor, Dragonite / 145, 80 / Neutral(1), Positive(2) / 124(2), 188(1) / 0(1), 1(2)
    372 / Alakazam*, Dugtrio, Sceptile* / 120 / Positive / 252 / 0
    361 / Azelf, Raikou, Starmie / 115 / Positive / 252 / 0
    355 / Scolipede / 112 / Positive / 252 / 0
    353 / Tornadus / 111 / Positive / 252 / 0
    350 / Espeon, Froslass, Gengar*, Jumpluff, Latias*, Latios* / 110 / Positive / 252 / 0
    347 / Durant / 109 / Positive / 248 / 0
    346 / Cobalion, Infernape, Keldeo, Terrakion, Virizion / 108 / Positive / 252 / 0

    Tier 3 (Max Base 80 to Max Base 107 Speed)

    339 / Mienshao, Zoroark / 105 / Positive / 252 / 0
    334 / Mienshao / 105 / Positive / 232 / 0
    333 / Garchomp / 102 / Positive / 252 / 0
    331 / Landorus, Thundurus-T / 101 / Positive / 252 / 0
    328 / Celebi, Jirachi, Mew, Ninetales, Salamence, Staraptor, Victini, Volcarona, / 100 / Positive / 252 / 0
    322 / Haxorus / 97 / Positive / 252 / 0
    319 / Jumpluff / 110 / Neutral / 252 / 0
    317 / Darmanitan, Jynx, Kyurem, Kyurem-B / 95 / Positive / 252 / 0
    315 / Keldeo, Terrakion / 108 / Neutral / 252 / 0
    310 / Kyurem / 100 / Positive / 224 / 0
    309 / Landorus-T / 91 / Positive / 252 / 0
    306 / Moltres / 90 / Positive / 252 / 0
    302 / Jirachi, Lilligant / 90, 100 / Positive / 156(1), 236(2), 240(2 with 30 Spe IVs) / 0
    300 / Zoroark, Roserade / 90, 105 / Neutral(1), Positive(2) / 216(1), 236(2) / 0
    299 / Jirachi, Ninetales, Staraptor, Victini, Volcarona / 100 / Neutral / 252 / 0
    298 / Rotom-C, Rotom-H, Rotom-W / 86 / Positive / 252 / 0
    297 / Ninetales / 100 / Positive / 136 / 0
    295 / Hydreigon, Heracross, Kingdra / 85, 95 / Neutral(1), Positive(2,3) / 252 / 0
    293 / Haxorus / 97 / Neutral, Positive / 252 / 0
    290 / Landorus, Rotom-C, Thundurus-T / 86, 101 / Neutral(1,3), Positive(2) / 208(1,3), 228(2) / 0
    289 / Darmanitan, Gliscor, Kyurem, Kyurem-B, Sharpedo / 95 / Neutral / 95 / 0
    287 / Gyarados / 81 / Positive / 252 / 0
    285 / Celebi, Gliscor, Jirachi, Kyurem, Kyurem-B, Shaymin / 95, 100 / Positive(3,6), Neutral(1,2,4,5,6) / 96(3,6), 196(1), 200 (1 with 30 Spe IVs, 6 with 30 Spe IVs) 236 (2,4,5) / 0
    284 / Dragonite / 80 / Positive / 252 / 0

    Tier 4 (?)

    281 / Landorus-T / 91 / Neutral / 252 / 0
    280 / Garchomp, Zapdos / 100, 102 / Neutral(2), Positive(1) / 60(1), 176(2) / 0
    279 / Lucario, Moltres* / 90 / Neutral / 252 / 0
    271 / Rotom-C, Rotom-H / 86 / Neutral / 252 / 0
    270 / Landorus-T, Thundurus-T / 101 / Neutral / 128(1), 208(2) / 0
    269 / Heracross / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0
    268 / Whimsicott / 116 / Neutral / 0 / 0
    264 / Gyarados, Lilligant, Volcarona / 81, 90, 100 / Neutral(2,3), Positive(1,3) / 16(3), 112(3), 168(1), 192(2), 196(2 with 30 HP IVs) / 0
    263 / Cobalion (30 Spe IVs), Kingdra, Rotom-W, Toxicroak / 85, 86, 108 / Neutral / 48(1), 220(3), 228(2,4), 232(2 with 30 Spe IVs) / 0
    261 / Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 0 / 0
    259 / Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / 0 / 0
    256 / Espeon / 110 / Neutral / 0 / 0
    253 / Sharpedo / 95 / Neutral / 108 / 0
    249 / Dragonite / 80 / Jolly / 124 / 0
    244 / Celebi, Gliscor, Mew, Sigilyph / 100 / Neutral / 32(1,3), 56(4), 72(2) / 0
    241 / Celebi, Dragonite, Jirachi, Tentacruel, Xatu, Zapdos / 80, 95, 100 / Neutral / 20 (1,3,4,6), 60(5), 180(2) / 0
    240 / Cresselia, Gyarados, Kyurem-B / 85, 95 / Neutral / 56(3), 136(1), 168(2) / 0
    218 / Landorus-T / 91 / Neutral / 0 / 0
    216 / Mr. Mime, Roserade / 90 / Neutral / 0 / 0
    213 / Jirachi / 100 / Negative / 0 / 0
    209 / Kyurem-B, Toxicroak / 85, 95 / Negative(1), Neutral(2) / 12(1), 28(2) / 0
    208 / Rotom-C, Rotom-H, Rotom-W / 86 / Neutral / 0 / 0
    206 / Cresselia, Suicune, Volbeat / 85 / Neutral / 0 / 0
    198 / Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 0 / 0
    196 / Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / 0 / 0

    Tier 5 (?)

    184 / Victini (0 Spe IVs) / 100 / Negative / 0 / 0
  2. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Here are my thoughts, I tried to hit on relevant Pokemon and even the speed tiers out as much as I could

    tier 5: <base 65 (slower than CB Scizor)
    tier 4: base 65 - max speed Tyranitar
    tier 3: max speed Tyranitar - max base 80 (Mamoswine, Dragonite, Venusaur)
    tier 2: max base 80 - max base 111 (Tornadus)
    tier 1: base base 111 - +1 max speed Gyarados
    tier 0: >+1 max speed Gyarados
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Ok, so far i added everything 'down to Landorus, shorted via Speed. After some talk with a few people we decided that 5 speed tiers would be the best number and we also decided that 80, 108, and 130 Speed would be good benchmarks for the tiers, as they are either speed tiers that are very important, or they represent the normally faster Pokemon that are commonly seen in OU (Jolteon).

    I will take into consideration Scarfwynaut's idea and try to create the last two tiers as well. In the meantime, any comment, advice, and correction of everything that exists would be appreciated a lot!
  4. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Btw, any idea what should i do about Speed tiers that are shared by multiple Pokemon but with different methods? For example, Volcarona needs 16 EVs and a Timid nature or 112 EVs with a Modest nature to reach 264 Speed, while Cobalion needs 48 Speed EVs to reach the same Speed. For this reason this Speed benchmark ended up looking like that:

    264 / Cobalion, Volcarona / 108 / Neutral, Positive / 48, 16, 112 / 0

    Clearly, the problem here is that the reader can't understand which value is for which Pokemon.
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Added everything 'till Dragonite (shorted by Speed, from higher to lower), and i would like to see some ideas about speed benchmarks for the two last tiers.
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Here are some things that need clarifying. I will use this speed tier which is very crowed and allows me to explain anything i need:

    264 / Gyarados, Lilligant, Volcarona / 81, 90, 100 / Neutral(2,3), Positive(1,3) / 16(3), 112(3), 168(1), 192(2), 196(2 with 30 HP IVs) / 0

    The numbers in the parentheses next to the natures, the EV spreads, and the speed boosts match to the position that the Pokemon in this Speed tier has. In this tier, Gyarados has the first position, Lilligant the second, and Volcarona the third (in terms of referance), and this is what the numbers in the parantheses refer to. Gyarados uses a positive nature and an EV spread of 168 Speed. Lilligant uses a neutral nature and an EV spread of 192 and 196 Speed. Lastly, Volcarona uses both a neutral and positive nature and both EV spreads of 16 and 112 Speed.

    There isn't any number in parenthesis next to the Speed boosts number as in this case there is only one number there, and there isn't any number in parenthesis next to the Base Speed Stats because i am assuming the most playes know the base Speed Stat of the Pokemon in the list (i know this is an assumption, but it is a fairly safe one, and i am making it because imo there is no need to make the list even messier by including numbers in parentheses there too).

    Also, the Pokemon names in each Speed Tier are mentioned in alhabetical order and the Speed Stats, EV Spreads, and Speed Boosts in numerical order (from lowest to highest).

    If a Pokemon has a Hidden Power slashed on any of its main sets, that forces it to lower its Speed IV stat by 1, then this Pokemon will have an asterisk next to its name (and two asterisks in case of 2 Speed IV reduction). However, the Pokemon that use a Speed IV reducing Hidden Power but can make up for the lost Speed by taking EVs from another stat don't have an asterisk next to them, as their Speed stat will never be lowered due to the Speed IV decrease. Instead, in the EV spread section both of the EV spreads will be mentioned for this Pokemon (EV spread = x, EV spread = x + 1). Furthermore, in the paranthesis next to the EV spread, which shows the correlation of the EV spread to each Pokemon, there will be an extra mention of the Speed IV. For example, if a Latios without HP Fire uses an EV spread of 120 Speed and a Latios with HP Fire uses an EV spread of 124 Speed, the parenthesis next to the first one will show: (x), where x is the number of referance of the Pokemon that the EV spread belongs to, while the parenthesis next to the second one will show: (x with 30 Speed IVs).

    If there is anything that is confusing in what i said, tell me and i will try to explain it better, and if there is anything that has been left unexplained, tell me and i will explain it. Finally, if you have any way to do any of the things i did above better, let me know!
  7. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    To be completely honest, in it's current format, this speed tier list is very confusing. I suggest you just do what the last speed teir guy did, if they have different base speeds but the set has the same speed, but them in a different line. Sure this is a lot more condensed, but this is much more cluttered.
    ApplepieFTW likes this.
  8. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    ^ do that
    Princess Bubblegum likes this.
  9. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
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    alexwolf if you could address the above concern that'd be super swell
  10. midend

    midend

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    I'm no expert at organisation, but I find it really difficult to read the data. Try using this instead.

    525

    +1 252+ Latios_110(31)
    (Second entry)
    ...
    523
    +1 252+ Latios_110(30)

    I find this format quite clear as it is similar to damage calcs we see so commonly, and rather than string the data together you should append new entries with same speed tier on a new line instead

    As a bonus u can bold the extremely critical pokemon to outspeed (like heatran or ttar etc) and it will turn up quite clear. Sure there will be more entries but at least it is presentable.
    ApplepieFTW likes this.

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