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OU Team - The Newton-Seconds

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Ithilanor, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    240
    Opening
    Hello, Smogonites! This is my first "real" team - one I've actually put work and thought in. I've played with it a bit on the ladder, though I haven't done it enough (and I don't have much experience or skill) that I've achieved any notable rank. The movesets and EV spreads are stock sets, taken from the Analysis writeups.

    The basic theory of this team is, quite simply, a heavily offensive team based around getting and keeping offensive momentum, forcing the opponent to repeatedly switch while taking damage from Stealth Rock and sandstorm. Without further ado, here is the team!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Team Building Process:
    Show Hide

    I started with Mienshao as a highly offensive, momentum-building powerhouse.
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    I knew I also wanted CB Scizor, filling much the same role it did in the last generation. It also covers ghost types for Mienshao.
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    I needed someone to set up at least one kind of entry hazards, because that's kind of the point of the team. Tyranitar could set up SR and sandstorm, which both help. It also helps out against the aforementioned ghost types even more.
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    I figured I wanted Rotom to provide some momentum on the special side with Volt Switch. I went with Rotom-W for typing considerations, and a Scarf set to fill the offensive role I wanted.
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    With the importance of SR to this team, I needed a spinblocker. I also wanted something bulky with better typing than Tyranitar to serve as a defensive pivot, which an offensive, momentum-based team like this badly needs. Jellicent fulfills both roles.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Likewise, with all the switching this team does, I needed a spinner of my own. Starmie overlapped too much with Rotom-W, so I went with Excadrill as a highly offensive spinner. Excadrill also synergizes with Tyranitar.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    On recommendation from raters, and because I haven't seemed to really need a spinblocker, I changed Jellicent to Skarmory in order to better check opposing Excadrill.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]



    A Closer Look


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    Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stealth Rock
    - Superpower

    Tyranitar covers several major roles on my team:
    -First, as one would expect from its position as my default lead, it sets up SR, which is key to the entire team's strategy.
    -Second, it can help deal with Ghost types, trapping them with Pursuit.
    -Third, it sets up sandstorm. This helps against opposing weather teams, deals damage over time - which greatly helps when both me and my opponent keep switching/U-turning/Volt Switching for several turns in a row, and prepares for Excadrill's later sweep.
    -Fourth, it serves as a special tank and defensive pivot. While Tyranitar's list of resistances is unexceptional, the Specially Defensive set allows it to take a wide variety of neutral hits on the special spectrum.
    Unfortunately, Tyranitar lacks recovery beyond leftovers, since there's no Wish users on my team. While this limits its durability, it rarely has to come in often during a match.
    Superpower is there primarily for opposing Tyranitars, and both Crunch and Pursuit means it can trap opposing Ghosts/Psychics while still having significant power in general. I'm not sure if I need all three of these moves, though; something like Ice Beam would be helpful in taking on opposing Dragons. (Haxorus and Dragon/Flying types i.e. Salamence, Dragonite are who I'm thinking here; Lati@s are already handled by Crunch, and Hydreigon is easily dealt with by Mienshao and Scizor)

    [​IMG]

    Mienshao (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    - Fake Out

    Mienshao is one of the cornerstones of the team. With Regenerator, it can switch in and out many, many times, while Fake Out racks up damage, its powerful Hi Jump Kick threatens opponents out, and U-turn retaining momentum when my opponent switches. Ghosts are one of Mienshao's biggest weaknesses, but it can just U-turn out to Scizor or Tyranitar to take them out. HP Ice means it can deal with the bulky ground types like Gliscor or Landorus that would otherwise wall it, as well as giving this team an anti-Dragon move that it badly needs. I've switched to using Stone Edge for better coverage, changing the EVs and Nature to reflect this. I'm also considering Subsitute over Fake Out; the scouting of Fake Out hasn't been terribly useful in practice.

    Mienshao often comes in on Dark/Ghost type attacks aimed at Jellicent. While it fills a similar role to Scizor, there's enough of a difference that both merit a spot on the team. Furthermore, Regenerator makes Mienshao very hard to wear down, which cannot be said for Scizor.

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    Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    I go with Choice Band Scizor over SD Scizor because of the stated purpose of this team. SD Scizor requires setup, which kills momentum, as opposed to this sets ability to rip holes in the opposition and keep up momentum by U-turning. There's little to say about this set, it's familiar to anyone who's played gen 4. The 12 EVs in speed are to win the speed tie against anyone else using the CB set right out of the analysis page.

    One possible change I've contemplated is using an Iron Plate instead of CB. Iron Plate lets me bluff CB, and enough things can come in on a Bullet Punch that there's a decent chance one of Scizor's other moves can deal a lot of damage. Thoughts on this would be appreciated, since I don't know if this is too cute/gimmicky or is a legitimate possibility.

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick

    Rotom-W forms the third part of the team's offensive core, alongside Mienshao and Scizor. With Volt Switch, it can keep bouncing back to the others, dealing damage all the while. It can't serve as a bulky water, obviously, but its simply a powerful offensive 'mon that provides me with useful Electric and Water attacks. HP Fire is for grass types that would otherwise resist this set easily, particularly Ferrothorn. Trick allows it to deal with supporters or walls like Jellicent, and is in fact my team's best answer to the floating watery blob.

    Rotom is who I usually go to on a predicted Ground-type attack, especially early on when I don't want to bring Excadrill out. Rotom is also very useful as a revenge killer; when I lose another member of my team, Rotom can come in and either kill the opponent, or Volt Switch to regain and maintain my offensive momentum.


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    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
    - Roost
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird

    Skarmory is my new defensive pokemon, a recent change to the team. It serves as a defensive pivot, just as Jellicent did. It also does well against Excadrill and provides another unconditional Ground immunity, two problems I'd had. I also can use it to set up Spikes, which greatly aid the team. While I lose the access to Taunt that Jellicent gave, Whirlwind is quite useful instead, and gives my team the ability to phaze out someone trying to set up. I might change Brave Bird to Taunt, though, to help deal with opposing walls; an incoming Taunt on Skarmory is usually easy to predict, and Brave Bird doesn't do a whole lot of damage.

    The EV spread is taken from the Analysis writeup; the Speed EVs are to outspeed max Speed Wobbuffet. I don't know if this is enough of an issue to merit EV investment; perhaps they'd be more useful in Def or SpD.


    Previously: Jellicent
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]


    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt

    The most defensive member of the team, Jellicent provides crucial support to my team. It spreads status with WoW, crippling opposing physical sweepers. With its amazing typing, it can come in on a vast array of moves. Often it simply serves as a pivot, luring out an Electric move Excadrill or Tyranitar can switch into, or a Grass/Dark move that Scizor easily comes in on. Other times, it can cut off an opponent's physical sweep with a burn.

    I use the (recommended) physically defensive EV spread and nature as opposed to a more specially defensive setup because Tyranitar handles the special side of things decently well already. Scald is chosen because I really don't need a powerful Water type attack with Rotom-W present on the team, and it's helpful to have the chance of status on my Jellicent's attacking move. Taunt is the closest to a phazing move I have on my team, and it's highly useful for keeping opponents from setting up.




    [​IMG]

    Excadrill (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Brick Break

    This Excadrill has changed somewhat since its initial setup; most notably, I've focused it on defeating opposing Excadrills, with Brick Break and a Jolly nature. Life Orb lets it have the power to do this without needing a turn of setup. I've dropped Rapid Spin out of necessity; I haven't truly needed it yet.

    Excadrill is somewhat less synergistic with the rest of the team; the major interaction it has is, of course, with Tyranitar. Most crucial to the team is its ability to spin; with as much switching and U-turning as my team does, having SR or Spikes up can be deadly. When I was looking for a spinner, I wanted something offensive - a defensive Pokemon like Forretress or Tentacruel would be too passive for this team, especially since Jellicent is already a dedicated supporter and my Tyranitar is not the most offensive of Pokemon.
    Excadrill often comes in late game, once my other teammates have dealt with the primary opposing defenders and Excadrill checks like Conkeldurr or Heatran. Excadrill then can usually just SD up and sweep to finish the match.

    General Strategy

    The overall strategy can be divided into three stages:
    Stage 1 - set up rocks with Tyranitar. Deal with an opponent's weather enabler, if they have one. Gain offensive momentum with one of my three major threats. (Mienshao, Scizor, Rotom-W)
    Stage 2 - bounce between the aforementioned three threats with U-turn and Volt Switch, racking up damage with those moves, SR, and sandstorm. Excadrill can be brought in to spin opposing enemy hazards away.
    Stage 3 - with the opposing defensive core weakened or destroyed, finish the match with a final sweep, usually by Excadrill, Mienshao, or Scizor.


    Current Concerns, Problems, and Possible Changes
    -While the team as it is covers a pretty wide span of types, there's a few attack types that I don't resist well. Notably, I only have one Electric resist in Excadrill, nothing that properly resists Fighting, and only Rotom-W and Skarmory covering ground.
    -Tyranitar's sandstorm causes a fair bit of damage to my team, with Rotom-W being the most affected - Mienshao can usually heal it off with Regenerator, but Rotom-W can't come in all that many times before it becomes useless.
    -I worry about my ability to deal with Ferrothorn. Rotom-W can deal with it, and Mienshao can usually force it out, but otherwise it works rather well against most of my team. Raters have said this isn't too much of an issue, as most of the team act as checks to Ferrothorn, if not full counters.
    -Tyranitar is often forced to not be my lead, because when most people see it in Team Preview, they'll lead with something that counters it pretty hard. I'll lead with something else - often Mienshao for scouting purposes - but trying to bring Tyranitar back in to set up sand and to get SR up is often a problem.
    -Thundurus is a rather significant threat to me. Excadrill can outrun it, but only if I get sand up. I don't know if ScarfRotom and Scizor's Bullet Punch do much against it.
    -With no Ghost type and no Fighting resist, I have issues with the numerous Fighting sweepers present in the tier. Skarmory is useful, but takes neutral damage from too many types (notably, Fighting and Rock) to really serve my purposes. I'm not sure where I can fit a Ghost type in.
    -I've thought of having a more dedicated Excadrill counter and sweeper in the last spot; Conkeldurr comes to mind. While he lacks the raw power of Excadrill, he doesn't need to be the primary offense of the team. If I switch to Conkeldurr, I don't need sandstorm and I might change the lead around.

    Final Notes
    -The team name comes from the SI unit for momentum, since that's such an important part of this team's strategy.
    -I'm not going to include a threatlist due to my unfamiliarity with the meta and because this team is very much still in flux.
    -The EVs are mostly taken from the analysis pages in the forum; I haven't tuned them at all. If there are changes in that regard that would help, please say so!
    -Thank you for reading this, and thanks to anyone who rates! I really appreciate it, and I hope my team is interesting.
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

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    Not a really helpful suggestion, but something you may want to consider.

    Is Fake Out on Mienshao helpful to you? If it's not, you may want to consider Stone-Edge for coverage, thereby making Mienshao more of an offensive presence against Pokemon that resists HJK. There are quite a few monsters that Stone-Edge would nail hard that HP Ice fails (IE Gyarados).

    Another thing to consider is Substitute. Substitute is an underrated move that really helps protect Mienshao from being revenge-killed or statused, as well as easing prediction. With Regeneration, I'd think the loss of 25% health wouldn't be too much. This can go over Fake-Out or U-turn (if you opted for Stone-Edge > Fake-Out). Although, U-turn maintains your momentum, I would feel that Substitute can also help you keep the momentum without necessarily switching out Mienshao.
  3. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

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    Stone Edge is definitely a good idea - I assume it can deal with Gliscor and Landorus fairly well. I'll try that out in place of HP Ice, changing the nature to Jolly. EDIT: And for Hippowdon, I can just go to Rotom-W, right?
  4. shadowxevo

    shadowxevo

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    Why not Jolly on the Excadrill? Outspeeds other Excadrills.
  5. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

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    Since you already have Pursuit Ttar, I'd suggest running Bug Bite on Scizor.
  6. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

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    Oh, a question for the more experienced and more metagame-knowledgable people - are there any glaring weaknesses to this setup? What particular 'mons will I have trouble dealing with?
  7. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

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    ^By glancing over your team, it seems that if your Rotom goes down or gets low on health, then Jolly Excadrill can come in, SD, and sweep with ease.

    I wouldn't worry too much over Ferrothorn; most of your Pokes are checks to it; even if you have no counters. Fix that Excadrill counter, and you should be fine.
  8. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

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    Hmm. I could switch Jellicent to Ferrothorn, figuring out a good EV spread to cover both physical and special. The only big gap in resistances that would leave is Fighting, not like that's common or important to cover. It also leaves me without a spinblocker. Use Skarmory, perhaps? Again, I have no spinblocking without changing another member. Any ideas are most appreciated!
  9. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

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    Well think of it like this.

    If the spinner is Excadrill, then you're basically screwed.

    If it's Starmie, then you can bring in Rotom or Scizor and KO it, and set up more spikes in the process.

    If it's Forry, Excadrill can use it as set up fodder.
  10. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

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    Heh, that's a good way of looking at it. And I don't think there are any other spinners of note that I need to worry that much about

    So let's see...if I switch Jellicent to Skarmory, that also gives me another ground immunity, which is nice. Think that Rotom-W and Skarmory will be able to check Excadrill? Any particular moves or EVs I should have on Skarmory to make sure it counters well enough?
  11. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

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    Rotom-W should check Excadrill about.... 66% of the time if my calcs are right. If it's Adamant, then it's a guessing game with your Excadrill.

    If you find that you don't need Rapid Spin, going Jolly on Excadrill and running Brick Break should solve your Excadrill problem easily. That gives you a free Poke too.

    Also, could you take a look at my team? Thanks.
  12. SteelPokemonFan

    SteelPokemonFan

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    This is a minor point but if you change your Excadrill to have a Jolly Nature and Brick Break, then Excadrill should hold a Life Orb or it will do 70.7% to 83.4% to opposing Excadrill. With LO, Brick Break will do 91.7% to 108.3%. After SR that's about a 70% chance to KO, as opposed to 6% if you have Air Balloon (of course, these calcs include the chance for a critical hit). You could have a Choice Band Excadrill but then you have 3 Choice Pokemon and there is the chance that other Excadrill can come in after you have used another move. However, it does give you the benefit of not setting up and having X-Scissor / Return. It could even have Rapid Spin if necessary.
  13. KorKonT

    KorKonT

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    Jolly Life Orb excadrill with brick break is definitely the right choice for you.
    After looking over your team, your entire team seems to have a severe weakness to ground attacks. Even with rotom-w, you can still be taken down by it.
  14. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

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    I've made a few of the recommended changes to the team, and updated the OP correspondingly. New stuff is in bold. I laddered a little bit tonight, I'll probably test them out more tomorrow.

    EDIT: A couple notes from my scattered thoughts:
    - I can divide the team into three components; the trifecta of Mienshao, Scizor, and Rotom-W that act as scouts and attackers; the two supporters, currently Tyranitar and Skarmory, who put up entry hazards and serve as pivots; and a late game sweeper, currently Excadrill, to close out games.
    -Looking at those two supporters, it is not imperative that I have sandstorm (because I can just change the late sweeper to something that doesn't need it); I just need the two functions named above. So perhaps I change to Jellicent and something else (Deoxys-S?), and change the sweeper to Conkeldurr or something.
  15. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

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    If you do change the sweeper and weather, then don't use Conkeldurr. It's a terrible sweeper, alright Excadrill counter though.
  16. Ithilanor

    Ithilanor

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    What about Nasty Plot Lucario with Vacuum Wave for Excadrill? Just throwing out ideas.

    And I've taken a look at your team...I'll post a rate soon, worry not!

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