Other OU Teambuilding

[Ze Diglett]

Use:

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SDef / 252 Def
Impish / Relaxed Nature
- Curse
- Waterfall / Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover

Role: Tank / Physical Wall

What It Does: Quagsire can tank at least one hit from just about any physical attacker in OU and set up a Curse while he's at it. The best part lies in its ability, Unaware, which means it can check virtually any physical setup sweeper (bar the rare SD Breloom), including such beasts as Mega-Charizard X, Bisharp, and Azumarill. With a beefy 393 HP and a healthy 295 Defense, there simply aren't many physical attackers that can easily muscle their way past this Quagsire build. Quagsire is also blessed with one of the best defensive typings in the game, having only one fairly uncommon weakness in Grass. Once it sets up a few Curses, it can not only take physical hits extremely well from just about anything, but it can also hit extremely hard with either of its two STAB moves. Waterfall hits anything immune to Earthquake, including Gliscor and Talonflame after tanking a Brave Bird. Or if you think fishing for a burn is fun, Scald is a viable option too for some extra chip damage. Earthquake is for hitting pretty much anything that isn't immune to it for a lot of damage. It even has reliable recovery (it learns a move called RECOVER, for Arceus' sake!) so it can heal off any chip damage it may end up taking. If you don't agree that Quagsire is viable in OU, let's run the numbers:

Relevant Calcs

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 144-169 (36.6 - 43%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 175-208 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 153-180 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 157-186 (39.9 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 171-202 (43.5 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 148-175 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Good Teammates: Anything that can take care of Quagsire's crippling weakness to Grass generally works well with it. Talonflame and Volcarona work great for this due to their dual STAB coverage against Grass. Additionally, Quagsire appreciates sandstorm support from Tyranitar or Hippowdon for more chip damage over time as well as a boost in Special Defense. Quagsire also hates being statused, so Mega-Venusaur can make a good status absorber as its immune to Toxic or any powder-based move (Spore, Stun Spore, etc). A Fire-type can work well for absorbing burns (once again, Talonflame and Volcarona).

What Counters It: Due to a nasty 4x weakness, Quagsire dies to any Grass-type move, so Mega-Venusaur and Breloom do a good job at forcing it out or KOing it outright. Also, Quagsire's Special Defense is pretty miserable, so it can't really take Special hits very well bar Psyshock. As said before, Quagsire hates status, especially a Burn which can put a damper on its damage output, so anything that can hit Quagsire with a Toxic or Will-O-Wisp can cause some good ol' chip damage or force it out.

Any Additional Info: As demonstrated in the Relevant Calcs, many physical powerhouses in OU fail to even 2HKO Quagsire, which says a lot about its bulk. This really shows in the case of MegaZard X, Bisharp, and Azumarill, since Quagsire can simply ignore any setup attempts by virtue of Unaware. That doesn't even cover some of the tier's other physical attackers, such as Tyranitar, Conkeldurr, and Scizor (which are all stopped dead in their tracks by Quagsire, while we're on the subject).

 

[BurningFury101]

Use:

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Recover

I'm not sure why you're running a Curse Set...? Toxic and Scald should DEFINITELY be over, or at least slashed first over Curse. The set you're using looks more like an attacking Quagsire (Bulky Attacker) to me. Most Tank Quagsire's use Scald/Toxic/Earthquake - Scald/Toxic/Earthquake - Scald/Toxic/Earthquake - Recover.

The set above is simple, Scald/Toxic for residual damage (You can choose yourself, Scald tends to be better for crippling Physical Sweepers, Toxic is there if you want damage, you can use both, though). Earthquake is usually the least seen (At least from what I've seen), but is still an option if you want to hit something harrder then Scald. Recover is for Recovering quickly.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I'm not sure why you're running a Curse Set...? Toxic and Scald should DEFINITELY be over, or at least slashed first over Curse. The set you're using looks more like an attacking Quagsire (Bulky Attacker) to me. Most Tank Quagsire's use Scald/Toxic/Earthquake - Scald/Toxic/Earthquake - Scald/Toxic/Earthquake - Recover.

I'm not sure why you're comparing the two sets to begin with...? One of them aims to sponge physical hits and deal damage in return, and the other one goes for chip damage with a burn/Toxic. You're basically comparing apples to oranges considering these two sets do completely different things. I'm guessing you just didn't read the rest of the post, because I quite clearly stated that the Quagsire set I listed aims to take physical hits and retaliate with its STAB moves.
It's called constructive criticism for a reason.

 

[rachet67]

I'm not sure why you're comparing the two sets to begin with...? One of them aims to sponge physical hits and deal damage in return, and the other one goes for chip damage with a burn/Toxic. You're basically comparing apples to oranges considering these two sets do completely different things. I'm guessing you just didn't read the rest of the post, because I quite clearly stated that the Quagsire set I listed aims to take physical hits and retaliate with its STAB moves.
It's called constructive criticism for a reason.

But this curse set is completely inferior to the standard defensive set.

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 Def/ 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Toxic / Encore/ Yawn

This set is literally its only niche in OU and the only set it should ever be running. There are much better users of curse, and other set up moves in general, and Quagsire can easily be disposed of with any strong special attacker, any mon with a grass move, any mon with toxic or taunt, and can be phazed easily. Even after a few curses, Quagsire's offenses are still not that fantastic. Just stick to what Quagsire's good at and leave sweeping to mons that can do it much easily.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Just stick to what Quagsire's good at and leave sweeping to mons that can do it much easier.

Oh, brother...

When did I EVER imply that the Curse set was for sweeping? Because, just to be clear, it is not. In fact, I've said what the set is supposed to function as multiple times now (it's in my original post, labelled in bold, no less). I'm seriously starting to think some of the people who reply to my posts don't actually read them first...

Though I will slash Scald onto the set, because it does probably deserve a spot on there.

 

[slayerx725232]

But this curse set is completely inferior to the standard defensive set.

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 Def/ 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Toxic / Encore/ Yawn

This set is literally its only niche in OU and the only set it should ever be running. There are much better users of curse, and other set up moves in general, and Quagsire can easily be disposed of with any strong special attacker, any mon with a grass move, any mon with toxic or taunt, and can be phazed easily. Even after a few curses, Quagsire's offenses are still not that fantastic. Just stick to what Quagsire's good at and leave sweeping to mons that can do it much easily.

This is not exactly always the case. Different sets are meant to be experimented, it is meant to be more than the sets that dominate OU. Not to mention the fact that the Curse set up can do wonders in a physically run metagame, which is what this gen is shaping up to be. One of the main things to look out for would be MegaZardY, but if you have half of a brain, you would know to switch out on the arrival of that. All in all, the set Ze Diglett is trying to run has potential, though it may fall short. That's part of the OU experience, experimenting.

 

[trc]

I don't like Curse Quagsire. It's slow and not bulky enough for it to not matter like something like Snorlax used to be. The Unaware wall [Scald / Earthquake / Recover / Toxic] is good enough for me.

 

[Banded Blissey]

why not make my first contribution here
what to use
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Spd / 200 SAtk / 56 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt/Iron Head/Dragon Claw
- Earth Power
Role: Wallbreaker/Stallbreaker
What it does: Tear shit up left and right. LO Kyurem-Black is EASILY the best mixed wallbreaker in the tier, surpassing even Aegislash. Iron Head can be used to get past fairy- type counters, but you have teammates. Dragon Claw is slashed because of Outrage's nasty effect. Outrage is easily one of the strongest moves in the game, tearing apart anything that doesn't resist it, and denting some things that do. Even though Outrage's power is record setting, there are a few things that can switch into it and switch back out to tell the tale. Sylveon, Clefable, Skamory, Mawile, and Klefki all switch in and take little to no damage, respectively. Mawile and Klefki are destroyed by Earth Power, and Skarmory is 2HKOed by Ice Beam. While it does have a few counters, what it breaks is valuable. Quagsire, Venusaur, Chansey, Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Heatran, Zapdos, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T are great things to be able to break. It isn't just good against defense! It can easily break offense, as most pivots are just destroyed by an Outrage. It does well against bulkier, slower offensive teams as they often have very few counters handy for it. It tends to struggle against faster offense, as they can outspeed and take advantage of Kyurem-B's terrible defensive typing. Don't let these flaws discourage you, as when played right, it rips through every team.

Good teammates: Things that can take care of bulky fairy- types. Mega Scizor is one of these, and it also benefits from Zapdos, Quagsire, Heatran, and Skarmory being broken. Things that benefit from Kyurem-B are also great teammates. Pinsir is one of the greatest benefactors, as Kyurem-B removes all of its counters(Skarmory, Zapdos, and Rhyperior) from the field with its coverage and power. It also removes a lot of its checks too, such as Rotom-W. Mega Mawile is in the same boat Mega Scizor is in, as those 2 form great wallbreaking cores that can eat away at teams very quickly. Just in general things that like the things Kyurem-B removes gone are great teammates.

What counters it: Bulky fairies, Mega Scizor, and Aegislash are all counters. It just can't get through Mega Scizor to save its life, and without Iron Head, it can't get through bulky fairies either. Aegislash threatens with Sacred Sword/Iron Head. Other than that, its counter list is barren. It does have plenty of checks, however. Latios, Latias, Terrakion, Garchomp, pretty much anything faster with an SE move threatens it. I can't really say much here, as Kyurem-B doesn't have many counters and its checks all fall into one category.

Additional info: Hidden Power Fire can sub for any move but Outrage to get by Mega Scizor, but often it isn't worth it.

 

[DeceptiveDestiny]

Gothitelle @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock/ Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball/ Hidden Power [Ice]/ Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick

Role: Stallbreaker

What It does: Gothitelle's qualities are all tailored to Stallbreaking, a fantastic ability in Shadow Tag which allows it to trap opposing Pokemon, a usable Special Attack, a diverse movepool, and its average physical bulk is perfectly compensated by its formidable 110 Special Defense. Moving on to its attacks, Psyshock and Psychic serves as mandatory STAB, Psyshock severely 2HKO's the likes of Chansey and Blissey, as well as denting Fighting types and Mega Venusaur for massive damage. Psyshock is usually preferred over Psychic, since it can touch special behemoths like the pink blobs that would otherwise wall Gothitelle. Thunderbolt provides Gothitelle impeccable coverage, steamrolling over common stall staples like Skarmory and other defoggers, and allows Gothitelle to poke on Bisharp and friends for at least a decent amount of damage. The third moveslot is usually your choice, because Gothitelle can also function as a utility counter that switches in with impunity to specific threats on respective teams. Energy Ball allows Gothitelle to deal with Rotom-W, Quagsire, and Slowbro. Hidden Power Ice may be opted to take out Gliscor and Dragon types out of the game, while Hidden Power Fire hits Ferrothorn and Scizor for heavy damage. Lastly, Trick renders lots of walls useless, especially clerics that normally switches moves depending on the scenario. It cripples Pokemon that are heavily reliant to their items, but Trick will require some practice so it wouldn't end up a failure when using it against Pokemon with Mega Evolutions. Choice Specs is the best item Gothitelle can wield, so it can attack moderately hard and be suffice for its much-needed power. The EVs are self-explanatory, it provides Gothitelle the opportunity to outspeed a handful of base 90's while further bolstering its Special Attack. The Attack IVs are set to 0 so Gothitelle receives minimal damage from Foul Play.

Good Teammates: Good Teammates for Gothitelle are those Pokemon that appreciate the removal of specific counters, such as the removal of Quagsire so Charizard-X can open up for a sweep. Generally, Pokemon who enjoy the removal of the above Pokemon enjoy the presence of Gothitelle. Late-Game Cleaners such as Greninja appreciate the removal of dedicated special walls, along with Azumarill who hates Mega Venusaur and Grass types.

What Counters It: Since its ability traps opposing Pokemon on the field, the best counter to Gothitelle is to overwhelm it with powerful attacks, but usually are crippled to only attack due to Trick. Gothitelle can be revenge killed by Pursuit trappers like Tyranitar and Bisharp, and to some extent Aegislash who fears Hidden Power Fire. Bulky Pivots with moves such as U-Turn and Volt Switch can escape from Gothitelle, but fears any of its coverage moves as well. A last resort may be opted too, allowing your Pokemon to die to easily gain momentum and finally kill Gothitelle.

Any Additional Info: Gothitelle shuts down so many stall cores, it's best to use Gothitelle for this purpose only. Otherwise, you may use other Psychic types rather than Gothitelle. Be careful with using Trick and remember not to Trick with a Special Attacker, as the boost in power may be used against you.

 

[BurningFury101]

View attachment 12497

Deoxys-D @ Red Card / Mental Herb / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid / Jolly
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Magic Coat / Thunder Wave / Superpower

It's already in Hazard Setter :l

 

[NobleArgon]

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 144 SDef / 112 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Toxic/Knock Off/Ice Fang


Role: Stallbreaker

What It Does: Stops most stall teams in their tracks. With its immunity to all status moves, spikes, and great physical bulk, this thing becomes a terror for any stall-based core to deal with. While Gliscor itself can be used to stall, this set revolves around shutting down walls, preventing them from doing anything useful with a combination of Taunt and Toxic Orb. A good natural speed, combined with EV investment allows it to outspeed any defensive threat that isn't Scarfed. Anything that tries to stay in on it gets set up on with Swords Dance, and a +2 Gliscor can prove a powerful threat against anything, not just walls.
Toxic breaks down anything that doesn't go down to a boosted Earthquake, and eases prediction. Knock Off is a fantastic offensive option, crippling Chansey, countering Gengar. Ice Fang is used for a more offensive-based setup, allowing Gliscor to have significantly more coverage for being used as a setup sweeper, and winning against opposing Gliscors.

Good Teammates: Gliscor loves to be paired with bulky grass-types, especially Mega Venusaur and Power Whip Ferrothorn. It also takes care of several of Conkeldurr's more bulky checks, whie Conkeldurr covers Gliscor's weaknesses, while providing an alternate Knock Off user. The Lati twins handle anything that outspeeds Gliscor, remove the Rocks that Gliscor so hates, and provide checks to Rotom-W and Venusaur-M. Gliscor covers the walls Heatran can't pass through, and Heatran covers those tricky-Steel types that don't go down to Earthquake, especially Skarmory.

What Counters It: Rotom-W does quite a number on it, and is untouchable with anything but Knock Off. Skarmory also walls it quite well, even at +2. Anything that can dodge Earthquake somehow, and resist Ice Fang will be in good shape against Gliscor. Mega-Venusaur checks it, but has a tough time if Gliscor gets a Swords Dance up. Fast water or ice-types can usually force Gliscor out. Crobat counters this set entirl

Any Additional Info: This set doesn't function nearly as well as stall-Gliscor against hard-hitting Pokemon, and in most cases should not stay in to try and cripple them. It excels against killing bulky, slow things, but loses 1v1s against most sweepers.

 

[MixMence]

Garchomp @ Life Orb/Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin/Sand Rush
EVs: 172 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive/Hasty Nature
- Dragon Claw/Outrage/Iron Head
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Role: Wallbreaker/Mixed Attacker

What It Does: Absolutely tears through any wall. Blissey or Chansey is answered by STAB EQ & Dragon Claw/Outrage while no physical wall (Quagsire & Chesnaught) wants to take a Draco Meteor. Fire Blast is great coverage for Physical Steel Walls (Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Aeglislash. and Mega Scizor). Basically this set is meant to dent anything in the OU meta, and while most expect a Scarf or a SD/DD Boost set and send in something to counter (expecting a lock in move or a physical wall for a boosted set) they get hit with something unexpected.

Good Teammates:
Charizard - Y: Drought user makes Fire Blast much more powerful and has great synergy.
Dragonite: Weakness Policy + Multiscale; use this Chomp as a lure.
Heatran: Beats the ice & fairy types that threaten Garchomp.
Priority users are great to help finish off dented opponents, so Scizor, Conkeldurr, and Talonflame are all great partners.
ANY LATE GAME CLEANER

What Counters It: Typically faster scarfs cause problems for Garchomp (Keldeo, Diggersby, Alakazam). While it isn't completely frail it doesn't like to take hits, especially if Life Orb recoil is in effect. Priority ice type move users hurt it (Weavile, Mamoswine, Cloyster).


Any Additional Info: This set is a great filler on a hyper offensive team or a team that is weak to the blobs. Give it a try and see if you make another team without it.

 

[DC-Shadow_Blaze]

Garchomp @ Life Orb/Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin/Sand Rush
EVs: 172 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive/Hasty Nature
- Dragon Claw/Outrage/Iron Head
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Role: Wallbreaker/Mixed Attacker

What It Does: Absolutely tears through any wall. Blissey or Chansey is answered by STAB EQ & Dragon Claw/Outrage while no physical wall (Quagsire & Chesnaught) wants to take a Draco Meteor. Fire Blast is great coverage for Physical Steel Walls (Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Aeglislash. and Mega Scizor). Basically this set is meant to dent anything in the OU meta, and while most expect a Scarf or a SD/DD Boost set and send in something to counter (expecting a lock in move or a physical wall for a boosted set) they get hit with something unexpected.

Good Teammates:
Charizard - Y: Drought user makes Fire Blast much more powerful and has great synergy.
Dragonite: Weakness Policy + Multiscale; use this Chomp as a lure.
Heatran: Beats the ice & fairy types that threaten Garchomp.
Priority users are great to help finish off dented opponents, so Scizor, Conkeldurr, and Talonflame are all great partners.
ANY LATE GAME CLEANER

What Counters It: Typically faster scarfs cause problems for Garchomp (Keldeo, Diggersby, Alakazam). While it isn't completely frail it doesn't like to take hits, especially if Life Orb recoil is in effect. Priority ice type move users hurt it (Weavile, Mamoswine, Cloyster).


Any Additional Info: This set is a great filler on a hyper offensive team or a team that is weak to the blobs. Give it a try and see if you make another team without it.

Not sure how Charizard Y is a good teammate, as this garchomp occupies your mega slot. If anything, even an opposing CharY's presence would hinder chomp, as it cannibalizes one of your resistances (fire), and doesn't score many OHKOs in return.

If any weather partner is used with Chomp, it should be a Sand Starter (Tyranitar or Hippowdon); his ground typing even contributes to Rain teams.

An option for a more physically threatening Chomp is to opt for Substitute instead of Draco Meteor, applying more pressure for a wall to come out, and you could commence with the breaking.

 

[Durant]

Personally, I would find it embarrassing for a Fire type being walled by a Steel/Flying type...

I never said the set was bad at all. Just this one nitpick.

That doesn't really matter as no Skarmory ever switches in on Charizard X.

 

[NobleArgon]

Not sure how Charizard Y is a good teammate, as this garchomp occupies your mega slot. If anything, even an opposing CharY's presence would hinder chomp, as it cannibalizes one of your resistances (fire), and doesn't score many OHKOs in return.

If any weather partner is used with Chomp, it should be a Sand Starter (Tyranitar or Hippowdon); his ground typing even contributes to Rain teams.

An option for a more physically threatening Chomp is to opt for Substitute instead of Draco Meteor, applying more pressure for a wall to come out, and you could commence with the breaking.

I'd assume that what LO 'Chomp is for...I'd still like to see a bit more clarification in his post about advantages between LO and MegaChomp, since he said nothing about that.
Also, I don't think I feel too keen about locking yourself into Outrage on a set that's meant to be switching back and forth between special/physical attacks as needed.

 

[Fourth Inversion]

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Def
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp / Taunt


Role: Stallbreaker

What it does: Talonflame is the best user of Bulk Up in OU, as despite its low defenses, it has access to a priority attack, reliable recovery, immunity to Will-O-Wisp, and is able to function effectively with mono-Flying coverage, allowing for it to use a 4th moveslot to provide additional setup opportunities.

As this set needs to tank hits while setting up, 248 HP EVs are used to reach a Stealth Rock number, while 252 EVs and a Careful nature maximise special bulk, with the remaining 8 EVs being placed into defense. The first three moves are obvious. Bulk Up both increases Talonflame's attack, and makes Talonflame difficult to take down for many physical and special attackers. Roost is also essential for priority recovery. The strategic use of Roost is also an important factor for Talonflame's success, as it removes the weakness to Electric attacks (for example, roosting on a predicted Volt Switch), and reduces the Rock weakness to 2x, but adds a 2x weakness to Ground. Brave Bird is the sole attack on the set, again being boosted to +1 priority from Gale Wings, and is quite spammable, with no pokemon being immune to it. The main choice in the moveset is in the 4th moveslot, with the two best options being Will-O-Wisp and Taunt. Will-O-Wisp has more general utility, and can cripple physical attackers for other team members, while Taunt is useful for avoiding any Toxics aimed at Talonflame, and providing setup opportunities against stall teams, while stopping hazard setters.

Other variations of this set are less effective, such as using Flare Blitz in the 4th slot (outclassed by Banded Talonflame, as this reduces the number of pokemon Talonflame can Bulk Up against), Acrobatics over Brave Bird without a held item (misses the recovery from Leftovers, and the recoil is less important with priority recovery) or Toxic in the 4th slot (does nothing to bypass Steel types + Talonflame doesn't have room for Protect, and is still too frail to Toxic stall).

This set plays very differently from the most common Talonflame set (Adamant nature and Choice Band). Banded Talonflame, has an effective attack stat of 430, while Bulk Up Talonflame starts with an attack stat of 198, meaning that it needs the opportunity to set up in order to function offensively. To give one example of a prominent OU threat that other Talonflame sets normally check.

0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 236-282 (73 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, and after 1 Bulk Up, +1 0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 356-420 (110.2 - 130%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Thus in general terms, Bulk Up Talonflame needs at least 1 setup opportunity before it can begin to threaten the opponent. After two Bulk Ups, it nearly reaches the power of the Choice Banded version, with access to bulk and recovery. If it manages to get three Bulk Ups, and the opponent's flying resists have been removed, then at this point, the game is probably over.

Good teammates: As with all Talonflame sets, Bulk Up Talonflame hates Stealth Rock, particularly as it might need to switch in multiple times. Although this set has roost, it still functions best when Stealth Rocks are removed, as it allows Talonflame to start Bulking Up straight away, instead of Roosting back to full health. It's essential to pair this set with a defog or rapid spin user. Additionally, the main pokemon that need to be covered by teammates are those that resist Brave Bird, namely Rock, Steel and Electric types. Talonflame's Rock weakness is still prominent, and random special Rock coverage moves (eg. Ancientpower) from pokemon like Heatran can at the very worst 2HKO Talonflame.

Rock, Steel and Electric types are all weak to Ground types, so including at least one ground type is a good idea, despite this adding a dual water weakness. Choice Scarfed Excadrill is a good partner for removing Stealth Rocks, as it has reasonable type synergy, and matches up well with many of Talonflame's checks. Alternatively, Latios or Latias are good options if defog is preferred. In terms of Mega-Evolutions, if Talonflame runs Will-O-Wisp, the Mega forms of Charizard (X), Gyarados, Pinsir and Tyranitar can all set up in front of burnt physical attackers.

What counters it: Stealth Rock is a great starting point, as it will force Talonflame to waste a turn roosting. Every OU team will have at least one pokemon that checks Flying spam in general (eg. Rotom-W, Thundurus, Tyranitar, Zapdos, Hippowdon etc.), so there's no need to prepare specifically for this variant, although pokemon that rely on physical rock coverage for this (such as the standard Earthquake/Slack Off/Rock Slide/Stealth Rock Hippowdon) risk getting burnt, and can then be used as Bulk Up fodder. It's easiest to break through Talonflame on the special side, as even with maximum investment, 78 HP and 69 Special Defense can only hold up for so long, and strong special attackers, particularly Water types can do enough damage to negate Talonflame's recovery options.

Although this set is easier to check than Banded Talonflame, the access to recovery, decent amount of bulk provided by the EVs mean that in order to handle this set, potential checks have to remain on the field, as it won't kill itself through recoil damage.

Any additional info: The Will-O-Wisp variant can also function as a lure earlier on in the game, while the Taunt variant is closer to a pure sweeper, although it has some utility against hazard setters. Don't try and set up too early in the game.

 

[TaBuu]

[ Swords Dance Lucario ]
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Iron Tail
- Extreme Speed

Role: Physical Sweeper

What It Does: It's simple. Switch in on an resisted move, scare the opposing Pokémon out and grab a Swords Dance boost in the process. If the team has provided enough damage to the opposing defensive backbone, +2 Lucario should be ready to sweep and call it game. Close Combat and Iron Tail are two extremely potent STABs that are capable of dishing huge amounts of damage, if not straight up KOs. Extreme Speed is what makes Lucario different from the plethora of physical sweepers XY has introduced. Being one of the few Fighting-type Pokémon to not care about priority Brave Bird, Deoxys-Speed's base 180 Speed and many common Scarfers makes Lucario a serious threat for HO teams especially, who tend to lack strong defensive cores.

Good Teammates: Pokémon that can lure in Bisharp and Tyranitar and also Steel Types in general such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor, Heatran, etc. Latios fits the bill perfectly, not only because it attracts many of the aforementioned Pokémon but also because Latios has access to Memento which can seriously help Lucario set up, considering Lucario's frailness.

What Counters It: Aegislash, Zapdos, Gyarados and Slowbro are some of the common counters that Lucario will struggle against. Conkeldurr, Scarfed Excadrill and Scarfed Garchomp are some strong checks that can take on Lucario 1 v 1, in an optimal situation.

Any Additional Info: Late-game is the ideal time to launch out Lucario. Having to swap out a +2 Lucario isn't the best situation for our frail 'mon, so its imperative that you realize when to send out Lucario

 

[vAmPiZaRd]

Xatu @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock / U-turn
- Heat Wave
- Toxic
- Roost

Role: Support

What It Does: This set shuts down a plethora of walls, hazard setters, or any other support mons in the meta. Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress are all walled by this build and can be 2HKOed with heat wave. As with all magic bouncers, they almost completely shut down all kinds of pranksters, Thundurus and Sableye with dark pulse being the only pranksters that can beat Xatu. With 0 IVs in Atk and a bold nature, foul play users like Liepard, Mandibuzz, Klefki, and Sableye can barely get a 3HKO, they can then be stalled out with Toxic and Roost. Non-STAB Knock Offs also fail to even 2HKO it, where you can then stall them again with Roost/Toxic. The pink blobs, Blissey and Chansey, can do nothing against Xatu.The mind games you can play with your opponent with magic bounce is quite useful in the right hands. More often than not, your opponent will make mistakes trying to anticipate when you're gonna switch in your magic bouncer. I personally never get tired of people rage quitting after their hazard setter just gave himself Stealth Rock.

Good Teammates: Lead Mamoswine is a good partner for Xatu with it being immune to Electric and it's ability to beat Thundurus and other Electric types with its stab moves. Xatu also covers his fighting and grass weaknesses effectively. Assault vest Conkeldurr also makes a great teammate, covering it's rock and dark weaknesses and AV Conk's ability to withstand most special attacks and retaliate with Drain punch helps Xatu cope with it's counters. Xatu can fit into generally any team, especially teams that hate hazards and pranksters. VoltTurn teams appreciate the option to switch to Xatu any time they predict a status move or hazard is coming.

What Counters It: There's a reason why Xatu was UU last gen, weaknesses to common types namely ice, electric, rock, meant that it was weak to BoltBeam and Stone edge which are staple moves on top tier OU pokemon. And with the rise of Ghost and Dark types, Xatu's woes continue to worsen. Electric types like Thundurus and Jolteon can OHKO it with their STAB moves. Bisharp, Aegislash, Tyranitar, Gengar, and Greninja also threaten it immensely, Tyranitar and Greninja can switch in with no fear while Gengar and Bisharp have to be a little careful they don't switch into Psyshock or Heat Wave respectively.

Any Additional Info: If you're like me and are sick of pranksters messing up your game then Xatu can do wonders for you. I initially used him as an experiment, now almost all my teams have him. Sure it's 5 weaknesses can be quite debilitating to your team, but if with proper teammates, Xatu's utility will shine in ways you never thought it could.

 

[Fourth Inversion]

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
Role: Hazard Remover/Revenge Killer

What it does: Choice Scarf Excadrill is different from other Mold Breaker versions of Excadrill, such Air Balloon/Life Orb/Assault Vest, as in return for being locked into a move, Scarfed Excadrill is able to outspeed almost the entire unboosted metagame, allowing it to turn the tables on its usual checks, while acting as a good revenge killer, as well as maintaining the ability to Rapid Spin.

The EVs are straightforward. 252 EVs are dumped into Attack, and as Choice Scarfed Excadrill can run an Adamant nature while still outspeeding Timid Mega-Manectric, Modest Mega-Alakazam and Adamant Mega-Aerodactyl, there's no need to lose power by using a Jolly nature. As Excadrill needs to run near-maximum speed to hit this speed tier, it's simplest just to run 252 Speed, to speed tie with any opposing Scarfed Excadrills. Jolly Scarfed Excadrill outspeeds Timid Mega-Alakazam + Jolly Mega Aerodactyl, but falls short of +1 speed Mega Charizard-X, as well as Deoxys-S.

Significantly, Adamant lets Excadrill act as a (fairly) reliable check to Greninja.
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 256-303 (89.5 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO - which is a guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rocks, and almost guaranteed after one round of Life Orb recoil. This cannot be achieved with a Jolly Nature, and given that Greninja is far more common than Spd+ Mega-Alakazam/Mega-Aerodactyl, or Spd+ Scarfers at a slightly lower speed tier, Adamant is the best nature.

Earthquake is chosen in the 1st slot, as it is both Excadrill's strongest STAB and a move that makes excellent use of Mold Breaker, notably removing the ground immunity granted by Levitate from pokemon including the Rotom forms, Lati@s, Gengar and Hydreigon. Rock Slide is chosen as the 2nd move, allowing Excadrill to check top-tier threats that it would be unable to without the Choice Scarf, namely Mega Charizard-Y, Mega Pinsir and Talonflame (Brave Bird is resisted, and with the Scarf, Excadrill can use Rock Slide before Talonflame uses Flare Blitz). Iron Head is the best move in the 3rd slot, providing a reliable secondary STAB that hits Fairies and Ice types super effectively, along with a chance for flinch hax.

These three moves offer reasonably good coverage, although despite Excadrill's high Attack of 135, it is not always able to achieve the OHKOes that it wants to. Notably, Scarfed Excadrill is not a reliable check to the following common OU pokemon if they are at full health; Standard physically defensive Rotom-W (very small chance to OHKO at full health, Hydro Pump has a large chance to OHKO in return), Mega-Tyranitar (lives Earthquake without any defense investment, and can OHKO with Earthquake in return - if this matchup can't be avoided, try for the Iron Head flinch instead), Aegislash (if it has HP Investment, it can survive one Earthquake and threaten to KO in return with Shadow Ball/Sacred Sword + Shadow Sneak), unevolved Charizard (requires prediction, as X survives Rock Slide, and Y is immune to Earthquake) and Thundurus (survives Rock Slide, can OHKO if carrying the rare Focus Blast).

The 4th slot is taken up by Rapid Spin, allowing Excadrill to be a supporter as well as a revenge killer. This is by far the most viable option for this moveslot. If necessary, Excadrill can also set Stealth Rock, although this is better left to a non-choiced teammate. The reasons for not using a 4th attack are as follows - X-Scissor is unviable, as a 2x super effective X-Scissor only hits marginally harder than a STAB earthquake (160 vs 150 base power), and X-Scissor can't OHKO Lati@s anyway. Celebi and Malamar are hit 4x super effectively by it, but both pokemon are rare in OU. Shadow Claw's low base power doesn't help Excadrill beat spinblockers - Gengar and Aegislash are hit harder by Earthquake, and physically defensive Trevenant + Gourgeist XL both counter Excadrill regardless. Brick Break hits Ferrothorn, Bisharp and Tyranitar for the same base power as Earthquake, and Poison Jab's coverage is fairly redundant with Iron Head, plus it can't OHKO Azumarill (who can potentially OHKO with Banded Aqua Jet, or Waterfall anyway).

Good teammates: Scarfed Excadrill can fit onto a variety of teams, and pairs very well with pokemon that appreciate Stealth Rocks being removed. Mega-Pinsir is a great teammate, as Excadrill can reliably remove Talonflame, an Excadrill can also function as the hazard remover on a flying-spam team. Thundurus is also a good partner, as it provides an emergency stop to +1 speed Mega Charizard-X, and can run coverage moves like Grass Knot and Hidden Power Ice to remove Excadrill's counters.

What Counters It: This set has two main groups of checks and counters, firstly, Ghost types who can spinblock against Excadrill (block Rapid Spin with their immunity to Normal type moves), and secondly, pokemon that might not be able to block Rapid Spin, but who can safely switch in on Excadrill and threaten to OHKO it. In the first group, bulkier versions of Aegislash can survive an Earthquake from full health and potentially use Shadow Ball or Sacred Sword + Shadow Sneak to kill it. However Excadrill will not always be able to break Trevenant, and will lose badly to Gourgeist XL, both of whom can burn or Leech Seed Excadrill. Additionally, Aegislash can carry an Air Balloon to spinblock against this set. The second group of counters primarily includes bulky flying types immune to Earthquake like Landorus-T, Gliscor, Mandibuzz and Gyarados, or physical walls with recovery, like Hippowdon and Quagsire. Finally, Life Orb Deoxys-S can outspeed and potentially OHKO with Superpower, while faster scarfers like Keldeo, Terrakion and Garchomp have a guaranteed OHKO on this set. Excadrill lacks priority, and is weak to Aqua Jet and Mach Punch, with Choice Banded Azumarill and Technician Breloom with Life Orb being powerful enough to OHKO.

Any Additional Info: When including Choice Scarfed Excadrill on a team, make sure that the team benefits from running Rapid Spin over Defog. Be careful when revenge killing or rapid spinning with Excadrill if it allows the opponent to bring in a pokemon to set up on a choice-locked Excadrill. This set is also quite common, so bringing Excadrill in to revenge kill a faster pokemon will likely reveal your item + set to the opponent.

 

[Gym Leader Phantom]

so i need some help with teambuilding, and i was hoping smogon could help me. I'm trying to make i guess it would be a bulky offense team. i've already bred out

megazard x
adamant 252 atk/252 spe/4 hp
flare blitz
outrage
roost
Dragon Dance

Excadrill Assault Vest
adamant
120 hp/136 atk/252 SpD
Earthquake
Rapid spin
Rock slide
Shadow claw/X scissor

(i've also bred out another excadrill for a choice scarf build, but i wanted to try and make AV mole work first)

the next thing i wanted was a bulky water type, but i wanted to avoid using pokemon i'm already sick of seeing (Aegislash Wash-Rotom Greninja Talonflame Azumaril) and i don't have access to pokemon that can't be bred (no heatran Latis manaphy etc) so with all that in mind can anyone help me figure out which pokemon synergize well? i was thinking either Slowbro or Quagsire for my next pokemon. Slowbro is generally better, but one of my friends runs a scarf ditto to kill my sweepers after they set up, so i was thinking Quagsire might be a better choice there.

if this is the wrong place to post this sorry, i asked SQSA where i should post a question like this and got sent here.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

This thread is designed more to be used as a reference guide for useful Pokemon to consider on a team. The posts are usually contributions to the list in the OP or discussions about said contributions. My advice is to look at what roles your current Pokemon fill, figure which roles you need filled, then check the Pokemon recommend in the OP and the threads to see which ones work best for you in terms of offensive and defensive synergy (you may find that don't necessarily need a bulky water type). If you need help with a complete team, look for the Rate My Team forum and post it there (make sure to read the RMT forum rules first before you do).

 

[hobreezy]

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Def
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp / Taunt


Role: Stallbreaker

What it does: Talonflame is the best user of Bulk Up in OU, as despite its low defenses, it has access to a priority attack, reliable recovery, immunity to Will-O-Wisp, and is able to function effectively with mono-Flying coverage, allowing for it to use a 4th moveslot to provide additional setup opportunities.

As this set needs to tank hits while setting up, 248 HP EVs are used to reach a Stealth Rock number, while 252 EVs and a Careful nature maximise special bulk, with the remaining 8 EVs being placed into defense. The first three moves are obvious. Bulk Up both increases Talonflame's attack, and makes Talonflame difficult to take down for many physical and special attackers. Roost is also essential for priority recovery. The strategic use of Roost is also an important factor for Talonflame's success, as it removes the weakness to Electric attacks (for example, roosting on a predicted Volt Switch), and reduces the Rock weakness to 2x, but adds a 2x weakness to Ground. Brave Bird is the sole attack on the set, again being boosted to +1 priority from Gale Wings, and is quite spammable, with no pokemon being immune to it. The main choice in the moveset is in the 4th moveslot, with the two best options being Will-O-Wisp and Taunt. Will-O-Wisp has more general utility, and can cripple physical attackers for other team members, while Taunt is useful for avoiding any Toxics aimed at Talonflame, and providing setup opportunities against stall teams, while stopping hazard setters.

Other variations of this set are less effective, such as using Flare Blitz in the 4th slot (outclassed by Banded Talonflame, as this reduces the number of pokemon Talonflame can Bulk Up against), Acrobatics over Brave Bird without a held item (misses the recovery from Leftovers, and the recoil is less important with priority recovery) or Toxic in the 4th slot (does nothing to bypass Steel types + Talonflame doesn't have room for Protect, and is still too frail to Toxic stall).

This set plays very differently from the most common Talonflame set (Adamant nature and Choice Band). Banded Talonflame, has an effective attack stat of 430, while Bulk Up Talonflame starts with an attack stat of 198, meaning that it needs the opportunity to set up in order to function offensively. To give one example of a prominent OU threat that other Talonflame sets normally check.

0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 236-282 (73 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, and after 1 Bulk Up, +1 0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 356-420 (110.2 - 130%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Thus in general terms, Bulk Up Talonflame needs at least 1 setup opportunity before it can begin to threaten the opponent. After two Bulk Ups, it nearly reaches the power of the Choice Banded version, with access to bulk and recovery. If it manages to get three Bulk Ups, and the opponent's flying resists have been removed, then at this point, the game is probably over.

Good teammates: As with all Talonflame sets, Bulk Up Talonflame hates Stealth Rock, particularly as it might need to switch in multiple times. Although this set has roost, it still functions best when Stealth Rocks are removed, as it allows Talonflame to start Bulking Up straight away, instead of Roosting back to full health. It's essential to pair this set with a defog or rapid spin user. Additionally, the main pokemon that need to be covered by teammates are those that resist Brave Bird, namely Rock, Steel and Electric types. Talonflame's Rock weakness is still prominent, and random special Rock coverage moves (eg. Ancientpower) from pokemon like Heatran can at the very worst 2HKO Talonflame.

Rock, Steel and Electric types are all weak to Ground types, so including at least one ground type is a good idea, despite this adding a dual water weakness. Choice Scarfed Excadrill is a good partner for removing Stealth Rocks, as it has reasonable type synergy, and matches up well with many of Talonflame's checks. Alternatively, Latios or Latias are good options if defog is preferred. In terms of Mega-Evolutions, if Talonflame runs Will-O-Wisp, the Mega forms of Charizard (X), Gyarados, Pinsir and Tyranitar can all set up in front of burnt physical attackers.

What counters it: Stealth Rock is a great starting point, as it will force Talonflame to waste a turn roosting. Every OU team will have at least one pokemon that checks Flying spam in general (eg. Rotom-W, Thundurus, Tyranitar, Zapdos, Hippowdon etc.), so there's no need to prepare specifically for this variant, although pokemon that rely on physical rock coverage for this (such as the standard Earthquake/Slack Off/Rock Slide/Stealth Rock Hippowdon) risk getting burnt, and can then be used as Bulk Up fodder. It's easiest to break through Talonflame on the special side, as even with maximum investment, 78 HP and 69 Special Defense can only hold up for so long, and strong special attackers, particularly Water types can do enough damage to negate Talonflame's recovery options.

Although this set is easier to check than Banded Talonflame, the access to recovery, decent amount of bulk provided by the EVs mean that in order to handle this set, potential checks have to remain on the field, as it won't kill itself through recoil damage.

Any additional info: The Will-O-Wisp variant can also function as a lure earlier on in the game, while the Taunt variant is closer to a pure sweeper, although it has some utility against hazard setters. Don't try and set up too early in the game.

This used to be my stall breaker until I started to run into stall teams where everyone had toxic, which after stealth rock, is bulk up talonflame's worst enemy. The most specific thing on stall teams that this guy hates is gliscor, who will wall him entirely and stall talonflame out with toxic.

 

[Skybluejay]

Gengar @ black sludge
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Confuse Ray
- Destiny Bond
- Substitute

Role: bring death to bulky attackers & revenge killing

Why it's good?
Although this set looks the part of a wonked out normal gengar it works a in a different ballgame mostly due to how I use it. This gar is built to kill off bulky attackers by getting a free sub up, use confuse ray, spam subs till they hurt themselves and punish them with a shadow ball. And sub again until they hurt themselves and cripple them with a second shadow ball and finally because very few pokes can withstand three gengar shadow balls. kill them off with another ball. Switch out.
Send in again on another free switch on something else and use destiny bond.((if the first poke proves to much you use destiny bond on that one instead))The gameplay for this gengar is blandly simple and has worked in my favour in about 70% of all my battles in ou since using this set. That said it still works as a generic revenge killer due to the fact that it's got both the speed and power to get that sh*t done.

It's hard to talk very deeply into this set because of its simplicity over how to use it properly or the fact that the set follows pre programmed rules((free sub, confuse ray, spam subs, wait for the foe to hurt themselves in confusion, shadow ball, rinse repeat until enemy is dead, switch out, switch in later, destiny bond, sing trolololo song))


Good teammates:
This gengar set doesn't really have any overly big desire for any sort of help. However stuff that gives gengar free turns are a luxury this set just loves to have
Most anything that can force a few turns of sleep or ice are nice Thought getting the target into paralyses also works, bait a fighting, normal or ground attack, Trick a choice item onto an unexpected victim. Swap into a predicted toxic, Etcetera, etcetera.
Though regular teammates you might expect to see with a gengar still work out for the better I have never seen any real need for their presence.


What Counters it:


Mega....scizor....kills.....this.....guy....dead
Gengar just lacks the power to beat the dam thing and it can set up on gengar all day long and end it all with two bullet punches...........I hate that thing with a burning passion passion.

Dragon dance is a 50/50 because I always get the confusion ray on the same turn as they break the sub meaning that either he hits himself and I kill him with the shadow ball or he gets to start his sweep.
Asside from that how ever gengar hates anything faster then itself because they can almost always kill it in one hit. And most things that regularly do beat gengar are probably going to counter it anyway unless gengar uses d-bond to get the last laugh.

 

[Mowtom]

I don't know if this is still being updated, but in any case:

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute / Extrasensory

Role: Special Sweeper

What it does: Comes in late-game, sets up, and sweeps. Thunderbolt and Hidden Power form the famed BoltBeam coverage, with only Magnezone, Thick Fat Mamoswine, and some of the Rotom formes resisting it. It can use many standard OU Pokemon for setup bait, even Thundurus and Aegislash. The Speed EVs are just enough to outspeed maximum Speed Thundurus and everything slower, and Thundurus cannot paralyze Raikou since it is an Electric-type. Raikou is free to set up Calm Minds on it, and defeat it with Hidden Power. Even with maximum Special Attack, Aegislash can only take off about 35% of Rakou's health with Shadow Ball after a single Calm Mind. Substitute is excellent so that it can avoid Toxic, Leech Seed, and other status and have a safeguard against priority, but Extrasensory lets it have an easier time with Mega Venusaur, and Conkeldurr. Make sure not to set up more Calm Minds than you need to, as a critical hit or strong priority can make your hard work go to waste.

Good Teammates: Raikou needs teammates who can remove its checks and counters. Landorus is good at that, being able to cripple Chansey with Knock Off, destroy Mega Venusaur with Psychic, and defeat Ferrothron with Focus Blast. Keldeo also works well, stopping Chansey with Secret Sword and Ground-types with Hydro Pump. Gothitelle works great as well, since it can Trick away Chansey's Eviolite, or use Hidden Power Fire to beat Ferrothorn, Psyshock to beat Mega Venusaur, or Energy Ball to beat Quagsire and Hippowdon. Lastly, strong Steel or Poison type physical attackers such as Bisharp can remove Sylveon and Clefable.

What Counters It: Most of Raikou's checks and counters fall into two groups: Ground-types and special walls. Ground types who often carry a Choice Scarf such as Excadrill, Garchomp, and Landorus-T can revenge kill it with Earthquake if it doesn't have a Substitute up. Hippowdon, whether physically or specially defensive, can sponge any attack, even a +1 Hidden Power Ice, and OKHO it with Earthquake and a tiny bit of prior damage. Unaware walls such as Quagsire and Clefable don't care about the Calm Mind boosts, and Quagsire can Earthquake it while Clafable can spam Moonblast to try to lower its Special Attack. Chansey and Sylveon can take repeated Thunderbolts, while Chansey can Seismic Toss or Toxic and Sylveon can Hyper Voice. Lastly, Grass types who are neutral to Ice, such as Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur, can usually take a neutral Hidden Power and strike back.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Gengar @ black sludge
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Confuse Ray
- Destiny Bond
- Substitute

Role: bring death to bulky attackers & revenge killing

Why it's good?
Although this set looks the part of a wonked out normal gengar it works a in a different ballgame mostly due to how I use it. This gar is built to kill off bulky attackers by getting a free sub up, use confuse ray, spam subs till they hurt themselves and punish them with a shadow ball. And sub again until they hurt themselves and cripple them with a second shadow ball and finally because very few pokes can withstand three gengar shadow balls. kill them off with another ball. Switch out.
Send in again on another free switch on something else and use destiny bond.((if the first poke proves to much you use destiny bond on that one instead))The gameplay for this gengar is blandly simple and has worked in my favour in about 70% of all my battles in ou since using this set. That said it still works as a generic revenge killer due to the fact that it's got both the speed and power to get that sh*t done.

It's hard to talk very deeply into this set because of its simplicity over how to use it properly or the fact that the set follows pre programmed rules((free sub, confuse ray, spam subs, wait for the foe to hurt themselves in confusion, shadow ball, rinse repeat until enemy is dead, switch out, switch in later, destiny bond, sing trolololo song))


Good teammates:
This gengar set doesn't really have any overly big desire for any sort of help. However stuff that gives gengar free turns are a luxury this set just loves to have
Most anything that can force a few turns of sleep or ice are nice Thought getting the target into paralyses also works, bait a fighting, normal or ground attack, Trick a choice item onto an unexpected victim. Swap into a predicted toxic, Etcetera, etcetera.
Though regular teammates you might expect to see with a gengar still work out for the better I have never seen any real need for their presence.


What Counters it:


Mega....scizor....kills.....this.....guy....dead
Gengar just lacks the power to beat the dam thing and it can set up on gengar all day long and end it all with two bullet punches...........I hate that thing with a burning passion passion.

Dragon dance is a 50/50 because I always get the confusion ray on the same turn as they break the sub meaning that either he hits himself and I kill him with the shadow ball or he gets to start his sweep.
Asside from that how ever gengar hates anything faster then itself because they can almost always kill it in one hit. And most things that regularly do beat gengar are probably going to counter it anyway unless gengar uses d-bond to get the last laugh.

A couple comments on this build
1) "bring death to bulky attackers & revenge killing" is not really a role. When they ask for a role, they mean traditional roles such as being a physical sweeper or a special wall.
2) It usually helps to give more concrete examples of good team mates. For instance, are there any useful Pokemon that can spread paralysis while baiting in a Pokemon Gengar can set up on?
3) Someone as frail as Gengar probably shouldn't be relying on confusion hax to try and secure kills, especially since he has no way of generating parafusion on his own. If you're using him as a support role, he has more reliable options such as Will-o-Wisp, Disable, and Taunt to help your team pull through. If you're using him as a sweeper, you can use Focus Blast to given perfect neutral coverage (though Focus Blasr's inaccuracy is a bit of a turnoff). While I am sure this build has been working for you, this one seems hard to use without knowing how to bait in the right Pokemon.

I don't know if this is still being updated, but in any case:...

As to whether or not the thread is dead, it's hard to say. There are plenty more Pokemon that could be recommended this thread has more room to grow (didn't realize there were no Gengar builds in the OP) but most of the community seems to have abandoned the thread. A shame really, I found this thread useful when I first started team building. But hey, if it's not locked and we think there's a good build not mentioned, I don't see why we can't try and keep it alive.