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>getting rocks up on msab
That aside it still doesn't exactly make it a good stallbreaker when they can just send out spd skarm (the most common set) and wall you. I don't rlly see the value in it and I'm also very confused if people are saying these things ironically or not because they make no sense to me?
The flavor of the buff doesn't really fit and play rough doesn't let tauros do a whole lot it didn't before
He's not saying that tauros is a stallbreaker, he's saying that it is a wallbreaker.Just in case you didn't notice, Sableye+Chansey+Skarm are far from the only viable sableye builds and the thing can be used on a multitude of teams. Additionally, with tauros having so many coverage option like fire blast, ice beam, etc. your opp isn't inclined to send something straight into Tauros that might get roasted by a coverage move. (tbh a spatk boost for tauros would be nice, and changing play rough as well maybe, but that might be a few too many submissions since im not sure if that counts as 3 boosts)
getting rid of skarm for a mon that goes wham on the opposing team is so easy tho o.o
also idk why not being able to break past skarm and mandi(note: they're pretty rare too rn) alone should make it bad
it's cherry-picking like "yo even after this buff this mon isn't a primal groudon, it loses to X-MON-THAT'S-EITHER-NICHE-OR-RARE". we're not making invincible mons here, we're just making them more viable, and not getting past every wall there is(for offensive mons) and not tanking every hit there is(for defensive mons) etc. doesn't make them unviable
Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Climb
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
a pretty simple set imo, ice beam 2hko's fat chomp and lando and gliscor easily
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Mega Sableye: 312-369 (102.6 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It doesn't even need SR to OHKO (but you need them against the CM set)! But yeah, Tauros is a speedy wallbreaker that is somewhat prediction reliant and weak to Steel-types. Speaking of Steel-types, pairing Tauros with a Steel trapper like Magnezone couldn't be too bad of an idea as Tauros baits them pretty easily for Magnezone to trap and KO, and lures in problematic Ground-types like Lando-T and Gliscor with Ice Beam for Magnezone.
Anyway, since everyone thinks Cofagrigus' buff is pretty straightforward, which it is, I'm gonna list some physical attackers from which Cofagrigus doesn't get 2HKOed (or has a very thin chance of being 2HKOed):
252+ Atk Soft Sand Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 129-153 (40.3 - 47.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 148-175 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (not a 2HKO since Azumarill then loses its ability, meaning Cofa now becomes a full-stop to it recovers its lost HP constantly takes hits from it)
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 118-140 (36.8 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 121-144 (37.8 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (even more so than Azumarill, Cofa is now a full-stop to M-Lopunny as it recovers its lost HP)
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 133-157 (41.5 - 49%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (not a 2HKO because Mummy and, again, Cofa becomes a full-stop to it)
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 110-135 (34.3 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 115-136 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 138-163 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- 52.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (without a SD, M-Pinsir can't do shit to Cofa and will stand helpless as the latter recovers its HP (M-Pinsir Aerilate to Mummy))
252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 93-111 (29 - 34.6%) -- 6.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 118-139 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (even if it Dragon Dances, M-Altaria will be burned before it lands a second hit and, more importantly, will lose its ability)
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 135-160 (42.1 - 50%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (that makes about 20% chance of a 2HKO after SR if both Stone Edges actually hits. Not bad, bt not the most impressive either)
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 130-153 (40.6 - 47.8%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Briefly, now that Cofagrigus has access to reliable recovery, it can repeatedly come into physical attackers (instead of once/twice per game) to take a hit or two, mess up their ability, Recover up and inflict status via Toxic Spikes or Will-O-Wisp. A Calm Mind set also seems really appealing, but Cofa absolutely hates status, especially Toxic, so I wouldn't bet too much on that.
Will write some more about Yanmega. Keep the discussions rolling! Ü
My point regarding tauros is that the buff doesn't fit flavor at all (I would even say it contradicts it) and it also doesn't do much it didn't before besides kill mega sableye. It just really forces me to ask myself "of all the things tauros could have gotten why this." People keep listing things tauros already does without the buff and acting like it proves anything, when it really doesn't. Being able to break mega sableye (which is on the decline rn anyways) really isn't enough for me to want to call it a good buff. You could slap fairy typing onto a lot of mons and make them better, but it still doesn't mean its necessarialy the best buff to give it. Like play rough doesn't actually fix the issues that make tauros unviable in the first place.
o i just picked the first set that came up in calc, my bad
yanmega............i just think it's looking good on paper but is really so-so in practice, cos it's either slow or weak, not getting past chansey EXCEPT if you use uturn on yanmega(idk if the tier it's in uses uturn yanmega). uturn is so cool to keep momentum strongly in grasp and not always have to run omnipotent coverage move. still not sure if it's gonna be that good tho, prolly will be but idk :/
i read a bit about honchkrow(specially overlordderp's, interesting stuff) but it still feels meh.
What really sells this is its utility as a powerful Pursuit user that doesn't need to rely on a Choice Scarf to answer things like Latios effectively.
that's the thing about pursuit+sucker punch, not flame charge helping it
also, brave bird flame charge sucker punch pursuit icy wind superpower=run what move???(tho imo brave bird flame charge sucker superpower/icy wind is workable)
and with rocks and lo and some predictions here and there and some stray hits wear it down so easily
My point regarding tauros is that the buff doesn't fit flavor at all (I would even say it contradicts it) and it also doesn't do much it didn't before besides kill mega sableye. It just really forces me to ask myself "of all the things tauros could have gotten why this." People keep listing things tauros already does without the buff and acting like it proves anything, when it really doesn't. Being able to break mega sableye (which is on the decline rn anyways) really isn't enough for me to want to call it a good buff. You could slap fairy typing onto a lot of mons and make them better, but it still doesn't mean its necessarialy the best buff to give it. Like play rough doesn't actually fix the issues that make tauros unviable in the first place.
!ds ou | bl, fighting type | dark type | dragon type
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 165-195 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Play Rough vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 330-390 (79.1 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 216-255 (66.8 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 432-510 (133.7 - 157.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 226-266 (69.9 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 452-533 (139.9 - 165%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 208-246 (53.1 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 416-491 (106.3 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Mega Latias: 168-199 (46.2 - 54.8%) -- 54.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Mega Latias: 335-398 (92.2 - 109.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
For reference, Latios is usually KOed by Rock Climb after one round of LO damage.
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 218-257 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 437-515 (161.2 - 190%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 185-218 (45.9 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 322-382 (79.9 - 94.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Mega Altaria: 157-187 (44.4 - 52.9%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Mega Altaria: 315-374 (89.2 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 192-227 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 385-455 (116.3 - 137.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Heracross: 185-218 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Heracross: 369-437 (122.5 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And that's not counting anything relevant that might happen to be in the lower tiers. Yes, Tauros already hit most of these for good damage, but picking up the KO on any one of them is the difference between sweeping and getting revenged. The Fairy typing also has the occasional benefit defensively, such as passively dissuading the opponent from clicking Outrage/Draco Meteor or surviving Breloom's Mach Punch with HP to spare.
Tauros has good damage output and speed ties with a lot of high-tier threats. The thing keeping it from being viable was its dearth of good STABs and being outclassed thoroughly by Mega Lopunny, Diggersby, and Staraptor. This submission fixes that by giving it a second STAB move that none of these other offensive Normal-types have. As for the flavor, it's basically Granbull that isn't pink. Is it really so inconceivable that it could get a Fairy typing?
for serious tho, imo this is what actually justifies tauros, not the calcs
Tauros has good damage output and speed ties with a lot of high-tier threats. The thing keeping it from being viable was its dearth of good STABs and being outclassed thoroughly by Mega Lopunny, Diggersby, and Staraptor. This submission fixes that by giving it a second STAB move that none of these other offensive Normal-types have.
there's mons that could provide better calcs than those, but this just emphasises what was the deal with tauros, and how the buff has actually helped it set itself slightly apart from other normal type attackers(there's also the thing that's it's not a mega, has great speed tier, and doesn't die that quickly over time imo)
