Past Gen RNG Research

[Pehu]

Yeah, as was stated by Omega, I believe, you can use that method to abuse your starter a lot more easily.

It's too late for me, anyway, and since I wasn't aiming that ID/SID abuse for my starter anyway, I just gave up. Good luck with the Sandshrew, I hope you did abuse your ID/SID.

 

[Dusk252]

Yeah, I did. I just found that RNG'ing in HGSS isn't that hard and the 7.20 beta is really relaiable for that. Those NPC's at Union Cave are anoying though and I found out that the slots are calculated in a wired way.

EDIT: I guess someone already said that...

 

[Noah_S]

I dont know if anyone mentioned it, but the Initial Seed's address for the HG/SS US is 021d15a0.
Initial Seeds position at: CDEF
and current seed at: 89AB
(For desmume emulator).

 

[Romsstar]

Heres basically a repost:

As it seems it is really about the calls of Elm.

I tried the seed
D120287 which game me the combination:菌 カ し し 菌 カ 菌 カ 菌 消費seed数:0


Elm Call
し：ポケモンの　しんかというのは～ - This one is about Evolutions of Pokemon
カ：カントーには　まだ　ぼくの～ - This one is about Kanto
菌：ポケルスが　くっついた～ - This one tells you about Pokerus.


The program says this are responses you get from Elm when you call him.
After showing Elm the Egg I get the Evolution message and also another one which covers the Egg Moves of Pokemon but not any of Kanto or Pokerus.

A japanese guy ran into the same issue he couldn't get this pokerus message to appear and they answered him that he needs to have a pokemon that was infected with pokerus.
Maybe you also had to be in Kanto to make the Kanto message appear
(Just guessing)

For the dogs

Example Seed:
c5150212

c515020829　エンテイ(Entei):34　ラティ(Lat): 4　強制消費seed数:3
c5150209:ライコウ:35　エンテイ:36　ラティ:24　強制消費seed数:3
c515020a:ライコウ:44　エンテイ:39　ラティ: 6　強制消費seed数:3
c515020b:ライコウ:32　エンテイ:43　ラティ:26　強制消費seed数:3
c515020c:ライコウ:38　エンテイ:46　ラティ: 7　強制消費seed数:3
c515020d:ライコウ:29　エンテイ:31　ラティ: 1　強制消費seed数:3
c515020e:ライコウ:35　エンテイ:33　ラティ: 8　強制消費seed数:3
c515020f:ライコウ:43　エンテイ:36　ラティ: 2　強制消費seed数:3
c5150210:ライコウ:32　エンテイ:38　ラティ:10　強制消費seed数:3
c5150211:ライコウ:38　エンテイ:43　ラティ: 4　強制消費seed数:3

given out list.
Raikou, Entei, Lat.
The numbers, mark positions on the map.
The program gives you a map where the numbers stand and by looking at which position the dog is you can verify your seed.

 

[mingot]

Ok, I can get the PKRS message (and have had it in game, so that works).

As for the message:

c515020829　エンテイ(Entei):34　ラティ(Lat): 4　強制消費seed数:3

What does the last bit of text next to "seed" say?

Also, any idea what the three is at the end?

Also, in the program, there are checkboxes next to the dogs and lati with entry boxes to the right. Do you know what is to be typed there and/or what it does?

And what is the number at the end of the output?

 

[RockinX]

I think it means something like "forced seed number".

 

[Romsstar]

Ok, I can get the PKRS message (and have had it in game, so that works).

As for the message:

c515020829　エンテイ(Entei):34　ラティ(Lat): 4　強制消費seed数:3

What does the last bit of text next to "seed" say?

Also, any idea what the three is at the end?

Also, in the program, there are checkboxes next to the dogs and lati with entry boxes to the right. Do you know what is to be typed there and/or what it does?

And what is the number at the end of the output?

Haha I knew this questions were coming:D
All right:
強制消費 -> forced used
数 -> means number

which makes no sense I know but this is the way it is translated:(

Forced Used Seed Number: 3

But I can tell you what the number means.xD
Actually the 3 shows you the number of roamers out.
I let it to be Entei Raikou and a Lat but if I let the Lat out,

c515021f:ライコウ:30　エンテイ:30　強制消費seed数:2
see the number is a two, because only raikou and entei are out.

But an odd way to call it like that. Maybe I miss something there.

Oh about the checkboxes,

I think this is rather for convenience, because
you know you get the combination

c515021f:菌 カ 菌 カ 菌 カ し 菌 し カ 消費seed数:2
for example.

If I change し to an A
c515021f:菌 カ 菌 カ 菌 カ A 菌 A カ 消費seed数:2

see the shi became an A.

So you can call the response the way you want to

消費seed数 before you ask means Used Seed Number:2 But also here it refers to the roamers only

Edit: But here comes a question into my mind: So in order to be able to use these responses I'd have to been in Kanto and have a Pokemon that had Pokerus?
This would make verifying the seed for Lugia for example rather impossible.
(Expect the Roamers)

 

[mingot]

Actually it makes sense and, no it's not the number of runners out :)

It's the number of seed advances that will happen with that seed + those runners out.

To see an example do "99" as the seed and then look at 9d.

it will have four!

And not sure about the checkboxes -- they are strange and things disappear that are typed in. We probably need to play with that some more.

Haha I knew this questions were coming:D
All right:
強制消費 -> forced used
数 -> means number

which makes no sense I know but this is the way it is translated:(

Forced Used Seed Number: 3

But I can tell you what the number means.xD
Actually the 3 shows you the number of roamers out.
I let it to be Entei Raikou and a Lat but if I let the Lat out,

c515021f:ライコウ:30　エンテイ:30　強制消費seed数:2
see the number is a two, because only raikou and entei are out.

But an odd way to call it like that. Maybe I miss something there.

Oh about the checkboxes,

I think this is rather for convenience, because
you know you get the combination

c515021f:菌 カ 菌 カ 菌 カ し 菌 し カ 消費seed数:2
for example.

If I change し to an A
c515021f:菌 カ 菌 カ 菌 カ A 菌 A カ 消費seed数:2

see the shi became an A.

 

[Romsstar]

Actually it makes sense and, no it's not the number of runners out :)

It's the number of seed advances that will happen with that seed + those runners out.

To see an example do "99" as the seed and then look at 9d.

it will have four!

And not sure about the checkboxes -- they are strange and things disappear that are typed in. We probably need to play with that some more.

Oh sorry wrong boxes.
No problem:
These boxes refer to the routes.
So logically you can only input Hoenn Routes for Entei and Raikou (which start with 29)
and Kanto Routes for the Lat (which start at 1)

The kanji say something similar to "Wandering Route"

Why you actually can input a route makes me wonder too though.

Edit: Just played around with it.
Very odd thing.xD

c515021a:ライコウ:31　強制消費seed数:1

It gives me 31 if I let the box clear.
But when I input 31 in the box next to Raikou

I get c515021a:ライコウ:32　強制消費seed数:1

also c515021e:ライコウ:42　強制消費seed数:1
turns to c515021e:ライコウ:45　強制消費seed数:2
when I input 42 in the box (interesting thing with the Forced Seed huh?)

Edit:
The last column of PHS is an odd one.
I can't get any sense out of it but maybe you can mingot:

I plugged c515021a in as a seed:
Which game me a list of this:

0:c515021a 乱数 (Random Number):50453 百分率 (Percentage):76 余り(Rest):3 個体値 (Individual Costs):21 8 17
1:8ab23185 乱数:35506 百分率:54 余り:6 個体値:18 21 2
2:6ad3fc14 乱数:27347 百分率:41 余り:22 個体値:19 22 26
3:1e88ccf7 乱数:7816 百分率:11 余り:16 個体値: 8 20 7
4:ecbce79e 乱数:60604 百分率:92 余り:4 個体値:28 5 27

Makes absolutely no sense to me but I just translated the columns, don't know if you can use them at all.

 

[ΩDonut]

I plugged c515021a in as a seed:
Which game me a list of this:

0:c515021a 乱数 (Random Number):50453 百分率 (Percentage):76 余り(Rest):3 個体値 (Individual Costs):21 8 17
1:8ab23185 乱数:35506 百分率:54 余り:6 個体値:18 21 2
2:6ad3fc14 乱数:27347 百分率:41 余り:22 個体値:19 22 26
3:1e88ccf7 乱数:7816 百分率:11 余り:16 個体値: 8 20 7
4:ecbce79e 乱数:60604 百分率:92 余り:4 個体値:28 5 27

Makes absolutely no sense to me but I just translated the columns, don't know if you can use them at all.

[Number generated by RNG] [Decimal Equivalent (of only the first four bytes, which are what matter)] [Percentage value when converted to a value between 0 and 100] [IVs generated for that number]

Actually it makes sense and, no it's not the number of runners out :)

It's the number of seed advances that will happen with that seed + those runners out.

To see an example do "99" as the seed and then look at 9d.

it will have four!

And not sure about the checkboxes -- they are strange and things disappear that are typed in. We probably need to play with that some more.

I typed in 9d and it still tells me the number of advances is 3. Yes, I'm sure it's showing me the routes for Raikou\Entei\Latixs and I've played with all the checkboxes.

 

[Romsstar]

[Number generated by RNG] [Decimal Equivalent (of only the first four bytes, which are what matter)] [Percentage value when converted to a value between 0 and 100] [IVs generated for that number]



I typed in 9d and it still tells me the number of advances is 3. Yes, I'm sure it's showing me the routes for Raikou\Entei\Latixs and I've played with all the checkboxes.

Yeah sounds nicer than mine stuff but only because I'm totally dull when it comes to maths and programming, alas:(

Anyways, did I get that right:

強制消費seed数:2 -> So our "Forced used seed Number" is nothing different than the starting frame at that seed with the roamers taking into account?

As I said yesterday already yeah they are about the routes but I don't really get why you can fill in a route in the checkbox and why the route changes in the result then.

Also: I gave that thing about Elm a thought.
We still have that Kanto message remaining. Would you have been in Kanto in order to make this message show up?
This would totally suck.xD

Also for the Pokerus thing:
Do I need a pokemon in party that has the pokerus or had (so cured?)

Edit: Am I mistaken or is PHS open Source?

 

[bbq]

It is, a .jar is a Java executable that (not necessarily) contains the .java code and the compiled code (.class). In this case the .java was included so you can edit it and recompile everything. You can open the .jar with WinRAR to see the contents.

 

[Romsstar]

It is, a .jar is a Java executable that (not necessarily) contains the .java code and the compiled code (.class). In this case the .java was included so you can edit it and recompile everything. You can open the .jar with WinRAR to see the contents.

yeeah I know, the only problem is my IDE (BlueJ) don't accept Shiftjis and so far I can't recompile it. that sucks.xd

 

[mingot]

yeeah I know, the only problem is my IDE (BlueJ) don't accept Shiftjis and so far I can't recompile it. that sucks.xd

I could not get eclipse to read it in either, so I want and fixed every "\" in that code. It was about 50 or 60 places. It does compile now, but of course names and encounter location strings (about 50 or 60 of them) are probably broken.

Either way, though, it has not been super helpful because I don't know *what* exactly the program is doing. Since I don't know *what* I can't get to *how*. :) The one positive is that I did understand what the HGSS breeding output was doing and fully added that to RNG Reporter yesterday (to be released soon) so at least there has been some progress.

 

[Romsstar]

I could not get eclipse to read it in either, so I want and fixed every "\" in that code. It was about 50 or 60 places. It does compile now, but of course names and encounter location strings (about 50 or 60 of them) are probably broken.

Either way, though, it has not been super helpful because I don't know *what* exactly the program is doing. Since I don't know *what* I can't get to *how*. :) The one positive is that I did understand what the HGSS breeding output was doing and fully added that to RNG Reporter yesterday (to be released soon) so at least there has been some progress.

Yeah that's why I wanted to translate it, so maybe then it would be prove to be useful, there are many tip boxes how to use the program and also many comments from the developer what exactly is done at which point in the program

Edit: Parse the text into NewJIS(ISO-2022-JP) and at least the IDE will display and properly compile the japanese text.
I still get some errors but code and not encoding related, as it seems this was compiled with a different IDE (obviously) and mine won't accept some methods(odd...)

All right, at least I can access it, it compiles too.
I don't know if I corrupted the code actually, as I see the japanese text symbols in my Blue J,
I will test it later, but hey: I got at least that far and I have 0 understanding of programming.xD

Edit: Updated Pic.
Hey yeah, it actually works.xD
I'm quite happy about this :)
Of course I not translated everything yet but here's a bit.

Edit2: The current seed finder seems to be pretty useful, BUT I don't get, how the roamers are involved in there,
they are displayed at a call at Elms, but what does it mean, are they're changing position, are they at that route at that seed? Kinda confusing...

 

[Pehu]

Great work. I'll try to help later.

 

[Romsstar]

All right, I'm nearly done with the Seed Verifyer and basically also understand its functions, only things that I'm still puzzled about:

1. How do I actually get all three messages, I never get the Kanto or Pokerus Messages
Edit: It seems you have to been in Kanto in order to get the Kanto Message.
And gotta retranslate that message it's a bit different actually^^
Testing the Pokerus message next.

2. What is actually meant with the Raikou or Entei Advancement in the Current Seed Finder and how I can check that.
(For time being I don't even have access to desMuMe, gee that sucks:/)

Edit: Made the Map closeable without exiting the whole program, it can be bothersome to have the map open all the time.

 

[mingot]

Here are the three messages:

"I expect there are some Pokémon in the Kanto region that I don't know. There are probably methods of evolution that I'm not familiar with yet. I should use that perspective and discover what I can."

"There are so many different ways that Pokémon evolve, aren't there?! Some Pokémon don't even evolve until they meet certain conditions first!"

"It seems that Pokémon that have been infected with Pokérus level up better. We're not quite sure why..."

As for the Kanto message -- I am in Jhoto (outside of mr. mortor) and I just got it.

I *have* introduced PKRS to this game.

I have all 16 badges.

EDIT: We may just want to name the messages PKRS, Evolution, and Kanto

EDIT:

Hey, find this in the code:

utugi = new String[]{"?","?","?"};

What do the symbols here equate to?

There is somewhere that it is showing the results of 10 RNG calls and a symbol to denote which result you got, it seems. AHA -- it is these symbols that you can replace by typing into those entryfields down at the bottom! This really seems like a pointless feature heh.

 

[Romsstar]

Here are the three messages:

"I expect there are some Pokémon in the Kanto region that I don't know. There are probably methods of evolution that I'm not familiar with yet. I should use that perspective and discover what I can."

"There are so many different ways that Pokémon evolve, aren't there?! Some Pokémon don't even evolve until they meet certain conditions first!"

"It seems that Pokémon that have been infected with Pokérus level up better. We're not quite sure why..."

As for the Kanto message -- I am in Jhoto (outside of mr. mortor) and I just got it.

I *have* introduced PKRS to this game.

I have all 16 badges.

EDIT: We may just want to name the messages PKRS, Evolution, and Kanto

So as soon as you reach Mt. Mortar you will get the Kanto message?

Also: Do you have traded a pokemon infected with pokerus to your game, or a pokemon that HAD pokerus, or do I have to infect one of my pokemon with pokerus.

Good idea about the messages. Makes things easier anyways

EDIT:
utugi = new String[]{"Evolution","Kanto","Pokerus"};

The Utugiseed is actually the Phoneseed.
I'm not sure anymore but as I recall Utugi was the japanese Name of Elm.

AHA -- it is these symbols that you can replace by typing into those entryfields down at the bottom! This really seems like a pointless feature heh. __________________

Yeah as I said it seems to be rather for convenience^^

 

[mingot]

Nah, I was just saying that I was at Mt. Mortar, in Johto... Maybe you have to have been to Kanto once to get the message, but you dont have to be there to get it after that.

As for the PKRS, I traded a pokemon over with it.

 

[Dusk252]

Ok, today I'm trying to abuse for an Adamant Sandshrew. This is the most boring thing I've ever done in my life. The reason is that I don't know the encounter slot. After landing on different seeds and different frames in the same seed with the same spread, I got 5 Adamant Zubat and 1 Adamant Geodude with perfect IV's. There seems to be no way of the Sandshrew showing up and that's frustrating. However, I have some things to say about this:

1. If I didn't misunderstand, OmegaDonut stated that the Pokémon Music Show advances 1 frame on Sundays. I noticed that this isn't happening in my game.
2. When I was aiming for a frame of 11, I tuned and detuned the radio in the "Trainer Profiles" show 3 times (3*3=9; 9+2=11). It got me into a frame of 11. Later on, I hit the same seed and tried for a frame of 17 so I did the same I had before but 5 times. This got me a frame of 21 and I don't get how that's possible...
3. I'll keep trying for my Sandshrew but I won't do the same again until the process of generating the encounter slots is fully understood.

 

[Romsstar]

Ok, today I'm trying to abuse for an Adamant Sandshrew. This is the most boring thing I've ever done in my life. The reason is that I don't know the encounter slot. After landing on different seeds and different frames in the same seed with the same spread, I got 5 Adamant Zubat and 1 Adamant Geodude with perfect IV's. There seems to be no way of the Sandshrew showing up and that's frustrating. However, I have some things to say about this:

1. If I didn't misunderstand, OmegaDonut stated that the Pokémon Music Show advances 1 frame on Sundays. I noticed that this isn't happening in my game.
2. When I was aiming for a frame of 11, I tuned and detuned the radio in the "Trainer Profiles" show 3 times (3*3=9; 9+2=11). It got me into a frame of 11. Later on, I hit the same seed and tried for a frame of 17 so I did the same I had before but 5 times. This got me a frame of 21 and I don't get how that's possible...
3. I'll keep trying for my Sandshrew but I won't do the same again until the process of generating the encounter slots is fully understood.

1. It might only be so between a couple of hours, which is unknown for now.
2. This might happen if there were commercials, which can occur between a station sending which would advance your frame unintetionally
3. Actually PHS is calculating all the Encounter Slots as it seems.

Concerning PHS: I know a rather short and and small update, but the code is not that simple and I'm limited to some symbols.
Anyways:
Finished Seed Verifyer

Started Specified IV Search (which is basically a GUI of Poke RNG)

The obvious problem here is: The space!
As you can see Sp Def is not completely visible, but I'll finish translation first and then bother myself with such problems:D
I kinda like that program:)


Edit: Odd the frame and Delays don't match with RNG Reporter ones.
Actually the frame is off by 1 and the Delay by 10.

Also: I'm just curious about why other programs calculate the frame different.
Also: For Method K you gotta check the HG/SS Checkbox, stupid me didn't think of that and was already shocked of Method K not being there.

But also Method K Frames are 1 off.
I gotta see if I can fix that somehow...

 

[mingot]

Frame number ... it's arbitrary and doesn't matter. He might be zero based and discarding the first number and the directions people follow in Japan take this into account.

Delay does matter, though. Give me an example of how they don't match.

Actually, I have a feeling I know whats up. When you DON'T have the date checkbox that program likely assumes the year is 2000. While I will generally be generating for the current year. 2010. Try checking the date box and seeing if that fixes it.

Also, any luck on getting the initial seed verify to show us examples of inconsistent advancement for the runners?

 

[Romsstar]

Frame number ... it's arbitrary and doesn't matter. He might be zero based and discarding the first number and the directions people follow in Japan take this into account.

Delay does matter, though. Give me an example of how they don't match.

Actually, I have a feeling I know whats up. When you DON'T have the date checkbox that program likely assumes the year is 2000. While I will generally be generating for the current year. 2010. Try checking the date box and seeing if that fixes it.

Also, any luck on getting the initial seed verify to show us examples of inconsistent advancement for the runners?

Yeah you was right about the Delay thing. After clicking the Checkbox the delay was normal.

For the inconsistent advancemet, this is about the best... Probably not helpful

After inputting Route 35 for Raikou

seed:8ab23185
8ab2317b33　Raikou:45　Seed Advancement:2
8ab2317c42　Raikou:30　Seed Advancement:2
8ab2317d30　Raikou:32　Seed Advancement:2
8ab2317e36　Raikou:43　Seed Advancement:3
8ab2317f45　 Raikou:38　Seed Advancement:2
8ab2318033　Raikou:42　Seed Advancement:2
8ab2318139　Raikou:45　Seed Advancement:2
8ab2318230　Raikou:29　Seed Advancement:2
8ab2318336　Raikou:32　Seed Advancement:2
8ab2318444　Raikou:46　Seed Advancement:3
8ab2318532　Raikou:37　Seed Advancement:2

Without inputting Route 35
8ab2317e36　Raikou:35　Seed Advancement:2
8ab2318444　Raikou:35　Seed Advancement:2

Edit: Will do tests with desmuMe later

 

[gameman87]

I apologize if I'm posting this in the wrong place or if this is already known, but there's something I noticed while trying this method to verify my SID and to RNG Lugia, I got a different frame when I called Elm a different number of times and used the same number of radio advancements with the goldenrod theme channel. I think calling Elm DOES advance the frame and it appears to do it by 1 for each call. I hit my Lugia Frame (5) when I called Elm 4 times, and Frame 10 when I called 5 items and advanced with the radio 4 times. This would also explain varying frames I got when RNG'ing Suicune while using this method to check my seed. I will need to run more tests to confirm this. I'll try this on any remaining legendaries I need to RNG to see if this is consistent.
Update: I've been running tests using the calling elm method. The good news so far is that it seems to be consistent with +1 for each call, regardless of the message. I've tested this on Zapdos for several different seeds.. We might have another reliable frame advancer for HGSS here. Nevertheless, I'll continue to double check in case inconsistencies arise.