Perfect Baton Pass?

[metrichours]

The team revolves around the abuse of baton pass to what i feel is the best extent of the move. There are obvious holes in a baton pass team but if you play this team right then it shouldn't matter. Before listing my members I would like to point out the moves that will totally mess this up. Taunt, haze, whirlwind, roar, dragon tail and to a lesser extent trick room. Oh.....and skarmorys in general are kind of a pain. Also this team rely's a little heavily on surprise, you'll usually know within the first 5-6 turns if your gonna win. So lets get started :)
Klefki @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes/rain dance
Klefki is the training wheels on any team and is just a solid lead no matter how predictable it can be. It's simple: Set up the necessary screen to live the first hit then from there gauge whether you wanna set up the next screen, thunderwave or spikes or just switch. I sometimes run rain dance just to take the punch out of fire types and make it so you don't have to guess which charizard megas coming at you but it's not that helpful for the way I built this team. I find spikes are more valuable just for breaking focus sachs. You can let Klefki die in most cases at this point or save him for just in case(ie crits)and switch. next up!

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SDef
Impish Nature
- Taunt/Earthquake
- Rock Polish
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
Now this is where the surprise kicks in. Nobody seems to realize how amazing gliscor is at passing speed and subs thanks to his bulk and ability which also gives him immunity to sleep and burn. Most run that toxic nonsense or knock off but this is really the true/physical pivot of this team. With proper screens applied gliscor can take a lotta hits and can almost always get a rock polish off and most of the time also a sub. Taunt is always a surprise and takes away the threat of leech seed or confusion which will travel with your baton pass. Earthquake is if you dont want him helpless to taunt himself and it can come in handy. So, you've got your speed, you might even have a sub. You might wanna stay in and earthquake but in most cases your opponent is probably gonna wanna bring in a special attacker to deal with gliscors high defense so your gonna want to start passing that speed/sub. So, ready? BATON PASS! SEE YAA!


Mew @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 236 HP / 20 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flame thrower/Psyshock/aura sphere/will-o-wisp
- Barrier
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
This is the pokemon that inspired this whole team. My second favorite pokemon, Mew :) Mew's not great at much except for versatility and surprise and that's what were going for. Most people don't think that your gonna have multiple baton pass without making some major assumptions. Most people are gonna assume your gonna try to sweep with Mew once you've passed the speed even though that would be a pretty lame idea. Mew is the special defense pivot and a little more. once you've passed speed onto mew he's pretty good at taking special hits and if you've gotta sub and/or your screens are still up(which at least one should be) he's gonna get a chance to do work. Boost whatever defense you feel you need(usually better to use barrier first as a physically offensive switch is probably coming). Odds are theyre gonna do one of three things: bring in something to hit you super effective, bring in something to phase you out(whirlwind, roar etc) or bring in something to take a hit and status you. Lets work backwards. If they bring in something to tank a hit they'll be disappointed to realize you just got a free calm mind/barrier up and if they status you Mew has synchronize which is very nice for paralysis as speed is key. Next is phase out moves which I have two solution for that i will talk about later. Lastly is getting hit by super effective damage. Mew should have a boost to either one of his defenses by this point or possibly more, you need to be cautious at this point because you WANT that super effective hit(without killing you lol) to activate your weakness policy. Things are getting tense for you opponent by this point. I use flamethrower because fire is just more offensively useful than psychic but if you really want a STAB then i would go psyshock but aura sphere is good for surprising your opponent when they switch in dark or steel types. Will-o-wisp seems a little greedy but it can also be a life saver. So you have boosted speed, boosted defenses and its not unlikely that you also have boosted attacks and you might even still have your sub. So, once again....BATON PASS! SEE YAAA!

This is the optimal opening for this team. If you've made it this far and all you've lost is klefki, things are looking pretty damn good for you. This is where your predictions are vital so more variety of defenses and actual attacking can come into play.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Def / 96 SDef
Impish Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Baton Pass
Scizor is an amazing attacker with respectable bulk and killer typing.The debate of the actual value of his mega is understandable but for this team bulk is a must so i go mega but i suppose you could run leftovers or a life orb (though i wouldn't recommend the life orb) if your dead set against his mega form. He is your second line of physical defence and mostly to deal with ice attacks that will slaughter gliscor. His priority bullet punch is always handy and I find him to be my favorite knock off user especially when dealing with aegislash. He's a scizor! its petty straight forward: swords dance when you can and attack when you cant safely swords dance. With the speed boost he can out prioritize unboosted talonflame who will be forced to use fire attack and lose his priority in which case you just baton pass out there. Mostly though I use him just as a safe switch on certain attacks. Best advise i can give for using him in this team is to do your best to get a swords dance off and then guess what? BATON PASS!!! SEE YAAAA!

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 140 HP / 140 SAtk / 228 SDef
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Thunder Wave/Dazzling Gleam
- Nasty Plot
- Baton Pass
Togekiss has some good qualities and fits the criteria for this team. He's got special bulk and the notorious air slash/thunderwave flinch you down to nothing cobo with access to nasty plot and baton pass but the thing that makes him a must on this team is immunity to dragon tail. Dragon tail will wreck everything you spent all your time working on and seriously piss you off. Though dragon tail isn't always the most obvious attack you can start to assume that if it can have dragon tail, it probably does and its probably gonna use it. At a certain point your opponents gonna run out of options. He needs to either make you switch, haze you, taunt you or pray for a crit but by this point taunt wont help much, haze isn't that common and hoping for a crit isn't a strategy. That's his main role, to nuder dragon tail. Once you know dragon tails not an issue your gonna, drum roll please..........BATON PASS! S-S-S-SEEE YAAAAA!

You can try to sweep whenever you feel it's appropriate but this last pokemon is really the powerhouse, mess your shit up pokemon that if done right can kill anything in one hit and remember how i said whirlwind, roar and taunt were such problems?

Espeon @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Stored Power
- Morning Sun/Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam/HP Fighting
- Baton Pass
How can you not use stored power??? I mean I've seen this move take out assault vest goodras and eviolite chanseys in one shot! The real kicker is magic bounce. Just when your opponent thinks they've got you with that whirlwind guess what? magic bounce. Sticky web? magic bounce. Stealth rocks, taunt, spikes? magic bounce!!!it takes some good prediction but espeon is essential to making this team capable at taking down multiple teams instead of fearing specific threats. Focus sash is a must and getting a sub in front of him is just a beautiful thing. If you get espeon out with a rock polish, barrier and a calm mind under his belt his stored power has 160 base power plus stab! and you can stack beyond that! add a swords dance and that's 200 base power with stab! if mews weakness policy goes off and that adds 80 more! just make sure you've got something to hit dark types and your good :)

Hope you enjoy this team and think that it's a good set up. Little gimmicky and I'm sure some of the iv's could be moved around but it's the team I've made that gets the best results for me and even if you want to call it gimmicky it does take prediction and strategy to pull off :) I'd love to hear some feedback or tips especially on the ev spreads :)

 

[ImDes]

The lack of a soundproof user means that perish song shuts you down, I see a lot of baton pass teams use Mr.mime since it can set up subs and calm minds/nasty plots. Sound proof also means roar can't shuffle you.

 

[P0k3mon]

Not to sound rude but, BP is not very good. Taunt shuts you down cold. Any Cloyster destroys this. Phazing is so common, if you must mention it stopping your team, you probably should reconsider. You lack ingrain or suction cups to stop roar/ww/dragon tail/circle throw. A faster taunt lead (Deoxys, Aerodactyl, etc) shuts down your lead and most any other mon. Crits ofc are pretty common and anything with frost breath or focus energy is yet another caveat to BP. Finally, there is Quagsire, Clefable for Unaware and the mother of all, Ditto.

I know I sound like a dick, but Im just speaking from experience with BP, I assure you. In a perfect tauntless, phazeless world, this team would be very good. It IS rather thoughtful.

 

[Alejandro36]

Not to sound rude but, BP is not very good.

As today, the guy at the very top of the OU ladder (dEnIsSsS) uses a standard batton pass team.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-99662826

And the guy at number 2? (stinkki shark) Nearly the same team:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-98018442

So much for batton pass not being good.

Taunt can be troublesome, but BP teams usually start by passing speed and defence with scolipede, and remember that batton passing into espeon can bounce the taunt back (espeon also blocks roars and whirlwinds). A well made and well piloted batton pass team can be extremely good. The only real magic bullet against BP is haze. And almost nobody runs it.


As for the team itself: Not running speed boost scolipede is just wrong. This thing is standard on BP teams for a reason.

 

[P0k3mon]

Those replays are garbage. First off, if EVER I see Scolipede and Vaporeon first thing, Im going right to a phazer. You do not need roar to be a phazer. A dragon tail will do. Scolipede is a dead give away. Using nonstandard is your best defense. You need every bit of surprise turn as possible for BP. Espeon is a common switch but properly built teams? Prepare for that cheap gimmick.

Magic bullet is Perish Song. Ditto. Unaware Pokes. Pranskter Taunters. Things that crit with scope lens, frost breath, focus energy. Cloyster in general until you get a def boost ASAP and finally, ANYTHING that can double switch into an Espeon early when they're fearing the rocks up, roar or taunt and instead pursuit traps it. A Scarftar, Houndoom, Stoutland, anything that's faster with Pursuit. You just have to draw out Espeon and it's curtains.

Give me a break.

Edit: If I see an Espeon with either Vappy, Ninjask, Scolipede or Blaziken, I instantly run my roarer as lead. And I roar on first turn. This causes them to protect and gain a speed boost. They then BP to Espeon like predictable bait. I double switch to faster pursuit user. Checkmate turn 2.

BP say wha?

 

[metrichours]

i dont know if its just the excess of scollipedes or what but i would rather not use one strictly based on my own personal preference. I never have problems with taunt, whirlwind or roar thanks to espeon and also having taunt on my gliscor. as for dragon tail thats what togekiss is for as i stated above and im not sure if it was just a weird fluke but when i play on showdown dragon tail doesnt phase out with when it hits a sub so theres also that. Ive taken out klefki and brought in drifblim. Not as good as scolipede but he has stockpile, will-o-wisp, acrobatics and of course baton pass. I gave him unburden and put a weakness policy on him and hes been doing good for me :) though i am considering replacing acrobatics with thief. No team is ever going to work 100% of the time so I dont feel its fair to to say any strategy or play style isnt very good. If you can make good predictions your going to do well with this team. I have not yet come across haze and red card though not as uncommon still isnt very common and ya, ditto is a bitch...thats all ive gotta say about ditto haha. if i find a poke with ingrane or anyone has a suggestion pf ones who fit this team i would definitely try it out :) oh and my team has gotten pretty good at shutting down scollipedes thanks to taunt on gliscor. like, if you see a scolipede in the team preview it seems pretty fair to assume that it;s going to lead so i just throw out gliscor out and taunt it. its still building speed but so am i. but im by no means a pokemon guru.

 

[EyeDentist]

Well, Metrichours, let me explain something.

Baton Pass is a very gimmicky concept in Pokemon. I'd compare it to Shedinja in that there are times where it seems unstoppable, but with mere use of one common thing, it can be shut down completely.

However, your team is a baton pass team from the start, so that is your team goal, and we must respect that by rating how effective it is AT that team goal.

Well, Espeon is definitely the star on this team. I suggest Morning Sun and Dazzling Gleam to be the two moves you use permanently, for Morning Sun keeps it alive as it takes minimal damage with defense boosts, and Dazzling Gleam has greater coverage. There will inevitably be steel types, but if you manage to get some Nasty Plot boosts, Stored Power should bust right through that.

Something I noticed was your lack of a speed boost passer, namely Scolipede. I then saw your Gliscor set, and I noticed something fishy. Gliscor holds a Toxic Orb. What I'm assuming from this is that you're intended to switch into a steel type after baton passing with it, or else you're doomed to be poisoned. That is not a great concept. Instead of Gliscor, try:

Scolipede Moveset

Scolipede @ Lum Berry / Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Defense
- Protect / Substitute / Attacking move
- Baton Pass

Prankster taunters seem to be a huge problem for this team, so beware. The only thing I could suggest to you is a Pokemon replacing Klefki to stand alone and kill specific threats to your team, like Sableye. Otherwise, you have to carefully predict when they are going to switch it in, and bring in Espeon.

Also, do not call the people who rate your team a dick even if they suggest nothing.

[EDIT]: I am no ninja, Boltaway, your post is much better than mine!

 

[Boltaway]

I'm afraid I'm a bit busy to give a full team rate, but I will be glad to leave some advice.

• Things that currently beat your team (Baton Pass in general too)
• Leech Seed (M-Venusaur, Ferrothorn) don't assume that you can always SubTaunt with Gliscor
• Dragon Tail / Stone Edge Garchomp
• Trick, in particular Rotom-W
• Perish Song, although I do not recommend preparing for it because Politoed is too rare
• Hazards
• Taunt users, especially Prankster taunt, although the latter is actually easier to deal with
• Ditto, if you are not behind a substitute
• Talonflame, if Gliscor is weakened
• Red Card users (pretty much only Deoxys-D)
• Also, one of the above users was wrong on Unawaremons -- they can't wall you at all because base 200+ Stored Power will still OHKO.
• Also, I'm a bit confused by what you intend with your EVs
• Finally, any competent player knows it's Baton Pass, so don't be afraid about running particular Pokémon because of that reason.

• Suggested Changes
• A 240 HP / 252+ Def / 16 Spe spread on Gliscor is better if you chose to run Taunt.
• Replace Klefki with the Scolipede set below. It's frankly just superior for full baton pass.
• Replace Mew with the Vaporeon set below. Handles defense-boosting better. (Also, Weakness Policy is too dangerous due to how it requires you to take super effective hits)
• More of your Pokémon need to run Substitute. It's absolutely vital.
• Replace Nasty Plot for Wish on Togekiss or just run Sylveon, whose much better at both roles anyhow. Defog is also an option if you find hazards troublesome.
• Dazzling Gleam is always superior to HP Fighting, just because you might need to hit Sableye.
• Leftovers over Focus Sash on Espeon, as well as Calm Mind over Morning Sun

Suggested Sets

Scolipede @ Black Sludge
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spd
Impish Nature
- Protect / Substitute
- Rock Slide / Megahorn
- Iron Defense
- Baton Pass

EVs outspeed base 100s, Rock Slide is specifically for Talonflame on the swith-in because iirc it OHKOs even at +2. Mental Herb is viable if you strongly fear Taunt, but not worth it usually.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SDef
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Acid Armor / Wish
- Scald / Wish
- Baton Pass

I'm sorry I don't have time to be more comprehensive, but hopefully some of my suggestions put you in the right direction!

EDIT: ninja'd

 

[Alejandro36]

Those replays are garbage.

Do you even play on showdown? if so, what is your rating? Because it is hilarious to see someone trying to argue that the team at the very top of the ladder is bad. You can talk about how you can outsmart a baton pass team player all you want, but the results speak for themselves.

If I see an Espeon with either Vappy, Ninjask, Scolipede or Blaziken, I instantly run my roarer as lead. And I roar on first turn. This causes them to protect and gain a speed boost. They then BP to Espeon like predictable bait. I double switch to faster pursuit user. Checkmate turn 2.

Except that the baton pass works like u-turn: it goes after the switch, which means the oponent gets to see that you switched into a pursuit user first before he decides which pokemon to send. He obviously wont send espeon into it. You send a pursuit user and that is when he sends vaporeon into your TTar and gets a 3x defence boost with acid armor. Good luck OHKOing espeon with pursuit now.

A dragon tail will do.

Thats what Sylveon is for. Dragon tail is uncommon anyway. And a good player willl see it coming from miles away since not many pokemon run it.

Scolipede is a dead give away. Using nonstandard is your best defense. You need every bit of surprise turn as possible for BP.

Any decent player willl identify a batton pass team from the team preview. Trying to hard to get the surprise factor will only result in a shitty team.

Magic bullet is Perish Song.

Blocked by Mr mime. Very rare anyway.

Ditto.

Blocked by substitute.

Unaware Pokes.

Who still get hit very hard by Stored Power, since it keeps the high base power and espeon has 130 Sp Attack.

Pranskter Taunters.

True but they are not as common as you think. The most common one is sableye, but he is frail and can't do much back other than taunt you. Sylveon kills it with hyper voice pretty easily.

Thundurus is very common, but taunt on him is not very common since he still has 4MSS and his other moves tend to be more useful against other teams (he wants thunder wave against everything, sometimes runs substitute, thunderbolt for STAB, hp flying for venusaur, nasty plot to sweep, superpower for chansey, etc, etc)

Things that crit with scope lens, frost breath, focus energy.

Lol frost breath.

The only focus energy user than sees some play is kingdra (who is rare) and you can just baton pass into sylveon as it uses focus energy and hit it with a super effective hyper voice.

And yes, random crits can fuck you up. But any team can lose against hax.

ANYTHING that can double switch into an Espeon early when they're fearing the rocks up, roar or taunt and instead pursuit traps it. A Scarftar, Houndoom, Stoutland, anything that's faster with Pursuit. You just have to draw out Espeon and it's curtains.

Stoutland hahahaha

If I see a pursuit user in team preview you can be sure I won't be switching espeon just like that. Most of the time they will be switching with baton pass. And after the manage to get defence boosts pursuit is a non issue.

Regarding trick. Yes, you need to be careful against a posible trick user. You dont want to have an important pokemon like espeon or scolipede with a scarf. The good thing is that trick can only be used once. If I smell a trick coming I would determine which pokemon is the least important for the match and have it take the scarf, and just use baton pass again. Is not the end of the world.

 

[Alejandro36]

if i find a poke with ingrane or anyone has a suggestion pf ones who fit this team i would definitely try it out :)

If I am not mistaken, the only thing in the game able to baton pass ingrains is smeargle. It can also use magic coat, which works wonders reflecting back taunts (and thus making them unable to taunt you again). Having Spore is also pretty good. A smeargle with ingrain, spore, magic coat and batton pass can be quite good on a BP team.

 

[P0k3mon]

You're laughing at Stoutland?Have you seen him in Sand?? I'm 20 - 2, ~1450 and not lost once to a BP team. I have np facing your OU.
Cloyster lead destroys any BP lead. Common. Haze is EASY to incorporate. Circle Throw exists and Poliwrath is starting to see play, now you're switching to a ghost type right? Unaware Pokes have boosting moves. They throw those in while you start setting up and they boost immediately while you BP immediately with your +2 speed boost to Espy for secred power?? You have how many turns to get any decent amount of boosts under Espys belt before he tears through his shit defenses?? If your sub is down for any reason, be it crit, Ditto comes in and shits on you. Not all of your mons will have sub up forever.
You can "smell" a trick I'm sure 100% of the time right?
EDIT: You clearly have a shit chain team. There was no need for that. To each his own.

 

[Alejandro36]

Im 20 - 2, ~1450 and not lost once to a BP team

Because smart players with BP teams are much, much higher in the ladder than mediocre 1450.

I don't have a BP chain team, I don't use one. I think BP teams are very boring to play with and against. I am merely pointing out that is ironic that you claim that BP teams are bad when top 1 and top 2 in the ladder are users of BP teams. Last time I checked, 2025 > 1450

Haze is EASY to incorporate

I said since the very begining that the only magic bullet against BP chain is haze. Still, since the move is nearly useless against other match ups, not many people run it. Stall runs it on quagsire sometimes, but thats it.

Unaware Pokes have boosting moves.

BP chain teams have roar users themselves. Or they can spore it with smeargle.

You can "smell" a trick I'm sure 100% of the time right?

You don't need to win 100% of the time. Making a team that wins 100% of the time is imposible anyway. To do well on the ladder you just need to smell them coming most of the time, which is easy to do since in this moment only some rotoms carry it.

Circle Throw exists and Poliwrath is starting to see play

Hahahahahhahaha....

From last month usage stats, polywrath usage is 0.13%. Thats about one in a thousand. Cloyster is about 5%. And vaporeon can handle cloyster with roar/acid armor

See kid when you try to make a good team you want to cover the most common pokemon. Not worry about stuff like stoutland

 

[metrichours]

Lots of helpful tips from every one. I dont understand the need for some people to condescend or argue with one another but i suppose its all just debate. I believe i stated why I dont use scollipede but ill say it again, personal preference plain and simple. I also believe I pointed out how baton pass can be seen as a tad gimmicky but like any strategy its about results and having fun. I like my team and will definitely try a lot of these suggestions especially trying out smeargle and vaporeon :) though i would be sad to lose mew :( I had already switched out hp fighting for dazzling gleam and as for morning sun ive found in my practice with this team calm mind is way more effective but everybody, its just a game. Nobody here is an Arceus with omnipotence of all that is pokemon. I put this thing up looking for tips and help with ev spreads not to be told that baton pass isnt very good or that its just a gimmick. BP teams seem to upset people and I dont know why. I really dont think its cheap. I have to think and predict when I battle and there really hasnt been one specific thing that just makes me immediately disconnect as soon as i see it(how fun would it be without threats and challenge) but maybe Im just not that good but Im totally fine with that :) I started this team wanting to utilize pokemon i genuinely liked with a strategy that I liked which what pokemon is about for me :) Its not like I use minimize or double team haha Boltaway gave some awesome tips and ya, NEED HELP WITH EVS haha

 

[metrichours]

this is my replacement for klefki
Luftballon (Drifblim) (M) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Unburden
Shiny: Yes
EVs: undecided
Careful Nature
- Acrobatics
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stockpile
- Baton Pass