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Pinsir (Revamp) [QC 2/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Pkn range6, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. Pkn range6

    Pkn range6

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
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    [​IMG]
    Why doesn't it get Megahorn it has HORNS

    [Overview]
    • Can make a great late game sweeper.
    • Two great abilities, Moxie and Mold Breaker.
    • With the new comers of Jynx and Primeape making base 85 Speed not considered fast anymore.
    • Stealth Rocks wear it down
    • Faces heavy competition from Scolipede, though Pinsir has the ability to beat Weezing, Misdreavus, and common Choice Scarf Pokemon after a boost with Quick Attack.

    [SET]
    name: Sword Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: X-Scissor
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Quick Attack
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Pinsir runs an effective Swords Dance set thanks to its high Attack stat, ability Mold Breaker to get past counters and priority to get past NU's most commonest Choice Scarf Pokemon
    • Swords Dance sky rockets Pinsir Attack to 766
    • X-Scissor is Pinsir's strongest STAB smashing Grass- and Psychic-types such as Musharna, Tangela, and Ludicolo.
    • Earthquake is mandatory because without it you're walled Misdreavus and Weezing while it OHKOs Metang and Garbodor.
    • Quick Attack gives you a form of priority to hit faster Pokemon trying to revenge kill you such as Jynx, Primeape, and Charizard.
    • Mold Breaker lets you hits users with Levitate such as Misdreavus and Weezing otherwise they would wall Pinsir.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Moxie only advantage is that +3 Quick Attack is that it can OHKO Primeape plus Pinsir is too slow to take advantage of Moxie.
    • Pinsir really enjoys hazard support from Pokemon such a Golurk, Scolipede, and Roselia
    • These calcs show you how strong Pinsir is after a boost and how it needs some hazards to successfully sweep.
      <ul class="damage_calculation">
      <li>+2 X-Scissor vs. 252/0 Piloswine: 71.8% - 84.9%</li> 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
      <li>+2 X-Scissor vs. 200/252+ Seismitoad: 78.1% - 92.3%</li> 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
      <li>+2 X-Scissor vs. 252/0 Lickilicky: 88.7% - 104.9%</li> guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
      <li>+2 X-Scissor vs. 252/252+ Armaldo: 73.7 - 87%</li> 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
      <li>+2 Quick Attack vs. 0/4 Charizard: 49.8% - 58.9%</li> 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
      <li>+2 Quick Attack vs. 0/4 Swellow: 69.7% - 82%</li> 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
      <li>+2 Quick Attack vs. 0/0 Jynx: 98.5% - 116.1%</li>
      </ul>
    • Jolly nature could be used to outspeed positive base 80's, but the power drop is very noticeable and you lose out on those OHKOs.
    • Lum Berry allows you to avoid status, but you lose out on a lot of OHKOs.
    • Pinsir enjoys paralysis support and Pokemon such as Liepard, Regice, and Regirock.
    • Pinsir has troubles dealing with Alomomola even after a boost. Pokemon such as Ludicolo and Eelektross make good partners

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: X-Scissor
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Moxie
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • With Choice Scarf Pinsir becomes a dangerous revenge killer and late game sweeper.
    • X-Scissor does great on Psychic- and Grass-types most noticeably revenge killing Gardevoir, Musharna, and Serperior.
    • Close Combat is just as deadly as X-Scissor and does quite a number to Lickilicky, Piloswine, and Probopass.
    • Stone Edge hits Flying- and Bug-types such as Scolipede, Braviary, Charizard.
    • Earthquake patches up hitting Poison-types such as Garbodor and can act as an in-between option between X-Scissor and Close Combat.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Jolly nature only allows you to outpace +2 Modest Gorebyss and positived nature base 80's, but those are rare in this metagame.
    • Moxie allows you to be a late game sweeper.
    • Hazard support (Will definitely look up for specific examples tomorrow)
    • Walled by many walls such as Alomomola, Misdreavus, and Weezing. Pokemon such as Exeggutor, Golurk, and Gardevoir can deal with the appropiate Pokemon.
    • Vulnerable to faster Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Primeape, Charizard and Jynx. Kangaskhan makes a great partner since it can defeat those Pokemon with priority.

    [Other Options]
    • Choice Band with Mold Breaker to hit hard right off the bat plus scaring off leads with Sturdy.
    • Salac Berry with Swords Dance it could effectively sweep late game.
    • Bulk Up, but it's inferior to Swords Dance for more power and Pinsir has low Special Defence.
    • Stealth Rock lead with Mold Breaker, unfortunately Pinsir doesn't have enough power to OHKO common leads such as Golem, Piloswine and Golurk.
    • Knock Off to cripple Eviolite users such as Misdreavus and Piloswine.
    • Me First could be useful on the Choice Scarf set with situation such as getting Golurk's Shadow Punch.

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Ghost-types such as Misdreavus and Golurk take little damage X-Scissor and the former can use Will-O-Wisp while the latter threatens with a poweful Shadow Punch. They must be wary of taking on a +2 Pinsir since Earthquake does a massive amount to Misdreavus and OHKOs Golurk.
    • Alomomola can counter both sets if they haven't accumulated any boosts and can Toxic stall them.
    • Any Pokemon that can take a +2 Quick Attack easily can deal with Pinsir. Examples such as Haunter, Rotom-S, and Tauros.
    • Kangaskhan can deal with weakened Pinsir with Fake Out + Sucker Punch combo.
    • Any Choice Scarf Pokemon faster than Choice Scarf Pinsir such as Charizard and Rotom-S can revenge kill Pinsir with their STABs.
    • Regirock, Armaldo, and Metang can take any hit while striking back with their STAB moves.

    Show Hide

    [Overview]
    • Can make a great late game sweeper.
    • Two great abilities, Moxie and Mold Breaker.
    • With the new comers of Jynx and Primeape making base 85 Speed not considered fast anymore.
    • Stealth Rocks wear it down
    • Faces heavy competition from Scolipede, though Pinsir has the ability to beat Weezing, Misdreavus, and common Choice Scarf Pokemon after a boost with Quick Attack.

    [SET]
    name: Sword Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: X-Scissor
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Quick Attack
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Pinsir runs an effective Swords Dance set thanks to its high Attack stat, ability Mold Breaker to get past counters and priority to get past NU's most commonest Choice Scarf Pokemon
    • Swords Dance sky rockets Pinsir Attack to 766
    • X-Scissor is Pinsir's strongest STAB smashing Grass- and Psychic-types such as Musharna, Tangela, and Ludicolo.
    • Earthquake is mandatory because without it you're walled Misdreavus and Weezing while it OHKOs Metang and Garbodor.
    • Quick Attack gives you a form of priority to hit faster Pokemon trying to revenge kill you such as Jynx, Primeape, and Charizard.
    • Mold Breaker lets you hits users with Levitate such as Misdreavus and Weezing otherwise they would wall Pinsir.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Moxie only advantage is that +3 Quick Attack is that it can OHKO Primeape plus Pinsir is too slow to take advantage of Moxie.
    • Pinsir really enjoys hazard support from Pokemon such a Golurk, Scolipede, and Roselia
    • These calcs show you how strong Pinsir is after a boost and how it needs some hazards to successfully sweep.
      <ul class="damage_calculation">
      <li>+2 X-Scissor vs. 252/0 Piloswine: 71.8% - 84.9%</li> 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
      <li>+2 X-Scissor vs. 200/252+ Seismitoad: 78.1% - 92.3%</li> 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
      <li>+2 X-Scissor vs. 252/0 Lickilicky: 88.7% - 104.9%</li> guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
      <li>+2 X-Scissor vs. 252/252+ Armaldo: 73.7 - 87%</li> 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
      <li>+2 Quick Attack vs. 0/4 Charizard: 49.8% - 58.9%</li> 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
      <li>+2 Quick Attack vs. 0/4 Swellow: 69.7% - 82%</li> 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
      <li>+2 Quick Attack vs. 0/0 Jynx: 98.5% - 116.1%</li>
      </ul>
    • Jolly nature could be used to outspeed positive base 80's, but the power drop is very noticeable and you lose out on those OHKOs.
    • Lum Berry allows you to avoid status, but you lose out on a lot of OHKOs.
    • Pinsir enjoys paralysis support and Pokemon such as Liepard, Regice, and Regirock.
    • Pinsir has troubles dealing with Alomomola even after a boost. Pokemon such as Ludicolo and Eelektross make good partners

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: X-Scissor
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Moxie
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • With Choice Scarf Pinsir becomes a dangerous revenge killer and late game sweeper.
    • X-Scissor does great on Psychic- and Grass-types most noticeably revenge killing Gardevoir, Musharna, and Serperior.
    • Close Combat is just as deadly as X-Scissor and does quite a number to Lickilicky, Piloswine, and Probopass.
    • Stone Edge hits Flying- and Bug-types such as Scolipede, Braviary, Charizard.
    • Earthquake patches up hitting Poison-types such as Garbodor and can act as an in-between option between X-Scissor and Close Combat.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Jolly nature only allows you to outpace +2 Modest Gorebyss and positived nature base 80's, but those are rare in this metagame.
    • Moxie allows you to be a late game sweeper.
    • Hazard support (Will definitely look up for specific examples tomorrow)
    • Walled by many walls such as Alomomola, Misdreavus, and Weezing. Pokemon such as Exeggutor, Golurk, and Gardevoir can deal with the appropiate Pokemon.
    • Vulnerable to faster Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Primeape, Charizard and Jynx. Kangaskhan makes a great partner since it can defeat those Pokemon with priority.

    [Other Options]
    • Choice Band with Mold Breaker to hit hard right off the bat plus scaring off leads with Sturdy.
    • Salac Berry with Swords Dance it could effectively sweep late game.
    • Bulk Up, but it's inferior to Swords Dance for more power and Pinsir has low Special Defence.
    • Stealth Rock lead with Mold Breaker, unfortunately Pinsir doesn't have enough power to OHKO common leads such as Golem, Piloswine and Golurk.
    • Knock Off to cripple Eviolite users such as Misdreavus and Piloswine.
    • Me First could be useful on the Choice Scarf set with situation such as getting Golurk's Shadow Punch.

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Ghost-types such as Misdreavus and Golurk take little damage X-Scissor and the former can use Will-O-Wisp while the latter threatens with a poweful Shadow Punch. They must be wary of taking on a +2 Pinsir since Earthquake does a massive amount to Misdreavus and OHKOs Golurk.
    • Alomomola can counter both sets if they haven't accumulated any boosts and can Toxic stall them.
    • Any Pokemon that can take a +2 Quick Attack easily can deal with Pinsir. Examples such as Haunter, Rotom-S, and Tauros.
    • Kangaskhan can deal with weakened Pinsir with Fake Out + Sucker Punch combo.
    • Any Choice Scarf Pokemon faster than Choice Scarf Pinsir such as Charizard and Rotom-S can revenge kill Pinsir with their STABs.
    • Regirock, Armaldo, and Metang can take any hit while striking back with their STAB moves.
  2. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    I know you haven't even started yet, but does the Scarf set even need a revamp ? I don't see anything that is THAT outdated on it. I think you should just make a Swords Dance set.
  3. tennisace

    tennisace brock you like a hurricane
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    Twitter Head

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    The metagame has kinda changed significantly, with things like Scarf Jynx and Scarf Charizard becoming more common. Also, Scolipede gives no fucks about Scarf Pinsir as the only moves that can KO it easily are Stone Edge (and really, when do you lock yourself into that) and Earthquake (not good without Mold Breaker). It should be rewritten.
  4. Hollywood

    Hollywood time to pay!
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    Yeah, I'd rather have SD first, and to be honest, I'd rather have Mold Breaker than Moxie (on the SD set; keep Moxie on Scarf no doubt). Without Mold Breaker, you're 100% walled by Misdreavus, Haunter, and Weezing, though I suppose you wouldn't want to stay in for Haunter most of the time anyways. Even so, with SD, you don't really need Moxie. Moxie works best when you've got more Speed to work with, and right now, Pinsir doesn't really have that, since base 85 doesn't really cut it anymore.
  5. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    I agree with Treecko on the SD set. The main reason I liked Moxie on SD was because once you get off the Swords Dance and get a KO, your opponent has a to revenge kill a +3 Pinsir who can fire off really strong Quick Attacks. However, I did some calcs and I saw that you don't need +3 to KO Jynx or Charizard after Stealth Rock. Primeape is a much closer KO at +3, but realistically it will never be at full health anyways. In that case Mold Breaker is definitely better to get off a powerful EQ vs Weezing and Misdreavus. (and beat the mighty WOOPAH!! although PS's Mold Breaker doesn't work vs Unaware...)
    • 252 +2 Atk Life Orb Pinsir (+Atk) Quick Attack vs 0 HP/0 Def Jynx: 99.26% - 116.97% (93.75% chance to OHKO)
    • 252 +2 Atk Life Orb Pinsir (+Atk) Quick Attack vs 0 HP/0 Def Charizard: 50.51% - 59.26% (2 hits to KO)
    • 252 +2 Atk Life Orb Pinsir (+Atk) Quick Attack vs 0 HP/0 Def Primeape: 67.53% - 79.34% (2 hits to KO)
    • 252 +2 Atk Life Orb Pinsir (+Atk) Earthquake vs 248 HP/220 Def Eviolite Misdreavus (+Def) : 63.47% - 74.61% (2 hits to KO)
    • 252 +2 Atk Life Orb Pinsir (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def Weezing (+Def) : 114.97% - 135.33% (Guaranteed OHKO)

    Moxie only really has this going for it: 252 +3 Atk Life Orb Pinsir (+Atk) Quick Attack vs 0 HP/0 Def Primeape: 84.5% - 99.63% (2 hits to KO)
  6. Pkn range6

    Pkn range6

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    Done my exams :) ready for QC!
  7. Hollywood

    Hollywood time to pay!
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    [SET COMMENTS] (Swords Dance)

    • Make a point preceding the reasons for each move being on the set regarding how to use this set

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Swords Dance)

    • I have no qualms about the calcs; they show how important entry hazard support is for the set.
    • If you feel it is necessary to include Rapid Spin users as partners, I probably wouldn't mention Armaldo in particular; it doesn't really add much in terms of synergy. Defensively, it's also weak to Rock-type attacks, and offensively, the only thing it does that this set doesn't is hit Flying-types harder.

    [SET COMMENTS] (Choice Scarf)

    • I wouldn't call Moxie Pinsir's only niche over other faster Choice Scarf wielders. While it is undoubtedly the main reason to use it, it's also stronger than all of the listed examples, and different Pokemon check them, meaning it could fit better on certain teams than others.
    • You can also note that Stone Edge hits Flying-types super effectively, while no other move on the set hits them for even neutral damage—bar Close Combat against Normal/Flying types, of course.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Choice Scarf)

    • "Should Mold Breaker>Moxie be mentioned?" No, you should cut that. The only real reason to consider that is to hit Levitate Pokemon with Earthquake, but since most of the are either defensive or get hit hard enough with another move on the set, the utility of Moxie is strongly preferred.
    • Cut the mention of Rapid Spin here altogether. This Pinsir set plays less as a revenge killer and more as a late game sweeper, meaning that if you are playing with it effectively/efficiently, you shouldn't really be switching around too much, making this a non-issue entirely. Instead, you can mention that since this Pinsir set is incapable of outspeeding a lot of the boosted meta, a partner such as Kangaskhan that can defeat these Pokemon with priority is appreciated.

    [Checks and Counters]

    • This needs some more expanding. You could add quite a bit here. Some examples might include Scarf Charizard and Rotom-S for their ability to revenge the Choice Scarf set, Regirock for its ability to take any hit from the Scarf set—and even one from the SD set—and OHKO in return, etc.

    This looks good. Make these changes, and I'll stamp.
  8. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Following Treecko's check:

    [Overview]
    First two point are irrelevant and should be removed. The Overview should be used to quickly describe how the Pokemon does in the current metagame, which I think the other points do a good job of just that.

    In the AC of Swords Dance, move the part explaining Mold Breaker's utility over to Set Comments. You can keep a mention of Moxie in AC saying that's its only real advantage is that OHKO on Primeape with +3 Quick Attack.
  9. Pkn range6

    Pkn range6

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    Alright I've implemented everything except I was a bit confused on the SC for the SD about what you said. I tried to explain, but tell me if its needs more change. I just cut out all of the Rapid Spin mentions. I added more checks and counters for the Choice Scarf set, but nothing really for the SD cause most Pokemon acutally get OHKOed and I can't really think of any that would work decently. Edit: for CC the last sentence I meant to say Choice Scarf Pinsir. Will change in the morning it's hard to edit on phone.
  10. Hollywood

    Hollywood time to pay!
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    oh, sorry. basically, just sum up really quick how the set works rather than just touching on what the moves do. something along the lines of "runs an effective SD set thanks to great attack, ability (you can move the mention of the ability here as well)" etc.

    anyways, this looks good.

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  11. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    I think for the last point in the overview you can go in more detail as to what Pinsir has over Scolipede. Things like Mold Breaker to beat down Weezing and Misdreavus as well as being able to take down common Scarf Pokemon after boosting with Quick Attack. (SubSD Salac Scolipede can do this, but requires more setting up and is easier to revenge kill with priority)

    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  12. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    takin over by treecko

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