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Please RMT: Goodstuff, goodstuff everywhere

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Albus, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. Albus

    Albus

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    649
    Hi everyone, it's been a long time since i don't come here to lurk into the RMT forums and get inspired to improve my shabby teambuilding skills.
    But anyway, this VGC Team started with the idea of a goodstuff, "jack of all trades" team that could handle (almost) any kind of common threat present in the VGC meta (except maybe dedicated Trick Room teams) with various standard play 'mons like Hitmontop, Crobat and Chandelure, and i've had a moderate success with it so far battling against all kinds of people both in DS and in the Nugget Bridge server of PS! (18W/6L, as of now, in 2 days of battling). however, i still feel that there's something missing in my team, and i hope that with this RMT and all of your constructive criticism, i can find out some its pros and cons to improve it further (and "de-standardize" it, if possible).
    Without further ado, let's jump into the team.



    [​IMG]

    Hitmontop @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 6 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Fake Out
    - Wide Guard
    - Sucker Punch

    Good ol' Hitmontop, a really good Pokémon that is even better on Double Battles's metas and has been the base of well known strategies like TopOgre back then and more recently, TopMoth; this guy is the premier supporter of the team, with Intimidate helping to soften blows from common physical attackers like Tyranitar or Breloom; Fake Out to give me potential free turns and help Crobat set up Tailwind against the likes of Whimsicott and other Prankster users and Wide Guard to help against common spread moves like Heat Wave, Surf, EQ or Rock Slide.
    I use it with Close Combat + Fighting Gem to hit like a truck and "bypass" Chople Berries or leave a dent in 'mons like Metagross; and Sucker Punch is there as a good priority move to hit hard stuff like Chandelure or Latios or as a last ditch move.
    EVs are quite straightforward, they are placed in Attack and Speed to hit as fast and as hard as possible, and to surprise some people that are more familiarized with the more standard 252HP/252Atk spread.
    As i wrote above, Top's main role is to support my 'mons that fall prey to common spread moves, like Chandelure and Crobat; to help the rest of my teammates to take physical hits easier from almost everything that is physical oriented (except Metagross or Defiant Pokémon) and/or give myself free turns when it is possible to.

    [​IMG]

    Chandelure @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 248 Spd / 4 SDef / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Heat Wave
    - Shadow Ball
    - Protect
    - Trick Room

    Chandelure is an awesome Pokémon when it comes to battling against sun teams and some Trick Room-setting threats; i chose it because of its FIREpower to hit very hard 'mons like Cresselia or Amoonguss or to abuse it's really good STABs and inmunities/resistances against common types like Fire, Normal, Fighting or Steel.
    It has a pretty standard moveset, with Heat Wave as its main move, hitting Steel or Grass types lacking Occa Berry or rain support really hard, Shadow Ball as its secondary STAB that is very useful against common Psychic or Ghost types, Trick Room just in case i have to reverse its effects against opposing TR teams and Protect to avoid or scout attacks.
    EVs are pretty straightforward, full investment in Sp.Atk and Speed of make full use of Tailwind, instead of a bulkier, more "Anti-Trick Room-ish" spread.
    Chandy's role is mostly to battle against Sun teams, to abuse its really good typing offensively and defensively and to counter Trick Room teams to an extent. it absolutely lovs Hitmontop's Wide Guarding services to help against the common spread moves that hit it Super Effectively and Hitmontop's role in eliminating one of its main counters: Tyranitar; in return, Chandy has a good defensive synergy with Ferrothorn, taking Fire and Fighting-Type attacks that may cripple, if not KO it right away; while in return, Ferro can take on Water, Ghost-Type attacks and rain teams that Chandy absolutely hates.



    [​IMG]

    Crobat @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 224 Spd / 28 HP / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Tailwind
    - Haze
    - Protect
    Ah, Crobat, an often overlooked Pokémon because of the popularity of threats like Metagross or Thundurus, but neverthless, a great Tailwind user and a good answer against Fighting-Types like Hitmontop or Mienshao.
    It's main role is to decimate Fighting-Types or Fake Out users and to set up Tailwind 99.8% of the time; Acrobatics + Flying Gem will destroy, if not heavily cripple, most Fighting and Grass Types lacking Coba Berry or Intimidate support that stand on its path, Tailwind to double the rest of my Team's Speed and make battles against fast attackers like the common Swift Swim abusers much more palatable, Haze is there, as gimmicky as it looks, to remove unwanted Stat drops (it's mostly abused with Latios's Draco Meteor) and against Stat boosters like Beat Up or Defiant abusing 'mons; it may backfire if i'm relying on Intimidate support or opposing team's Stat drops, however, and Protect to avoid/scout damage.
    It is EV'd to hit as hard as possible and to outspeed everything except opposing Crobat or the rare Jolteon and Aerodactyl, and 4 EVs in SpDef to avoid an Sp.Atk boost from opposing Download users.
    As with Chandelure, it absolutely loves Hitmontop's Wide Guard and Intimidate support, against spread moves like Blizzard, Rock Slide and the removal of 'mons like Tyranitar, respectively. And as i said, it's main role is to defeat Fighting and Grass-Types (especially the incredibly annoying Amoonguss and Ludicolo lacking Ice Beam) and set up Tailwind, which Chandelure and Hitmontop really enjoy and can help against Metagross and Tyranitar, respectively.


    [​IMG]

    Latios @ Dragon Gem
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 Spd / 248 SAtk / 12 HP
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Protect
    Latios, a very useful Dragon in the VGC, and one that hits like a ton of bricks with its powerful Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteor to anything that doesn't resist it.
    Latios's role is that of hitting like a brake-less, 4X4 truck, to dispose of threats quick'n easy with its Draco Meteor, something that gets worse with Tailwind (and Haze) support; Moveset is pretty standard, Draco Meteor is the STAB move of choice to smash (almost) anything to pieces not called Tyranitar, Steel-Types or dedicated special sponges, Psychic as its secondary STAB to hit Fighting-Types super effectively, Hidden Power Fire to nail Ferrothorn and deal moderate damage to Metagross and other Steel-Types outside of rain, and Protect to avoid/scout damage.
    EVs are straightforward, 248 EVs in Sp.Atk and Speed to make up for the IV drop of Hidden Power Fire, and the rest are placed on HP to give it a small amount of additional bulk.
    To function properly and start spamming Draco Meteors, Latios appreciates the removal of Tyranitar and Metagross, two of its most common checks, so that's why i have both Hitmontop and Chandelure/Zapdos to help disposing of those two to open Latios's path to start wrecking stuff with Draco Meteor; in return, Latios helps Hitmontop and Chandelure with the removal of threats like Amoonguss or Water-Type threats, respectively.



    [​IMG]

    Zapdos @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 156 Spd / 252 SAtk / 104 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Heat Wave
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Protect
    Zapdos, a really awesome Electric-Type that, despite it being somewhat outclassed by Thundurus-I thanks to Prankster, a higher Speed Stat and slightly better coverage, it is by no means a bad Pokémon and it is still awesome at doing its job, countering Zen Headbutt/Ice Punch-lacking Metagross, Hitmontop, Ferrothorn and some other common threats effectively.
    It's main role is to fight against the aforementioned Metagross and Hitmontop, Landorus-T and other common threats like Ferrothorn and Bronzong; its moves are pretty standard, Thunderbolt is there as its STAB of choice, that, along with a Life Orb and Max Sp-Atk investment, hits really hard, Heat Wave is there to hit those annoying Grass-Types that resist its Electric STAB, like Amoonguss or Ferrothorn, Hidden Power Ice to nail common Ground-Types that are inmune to its Electric STAB, like non-Yache Berry Landorus and Garchomp, and thestandard Protect to scout/avoid damage over Detect, since Imprison is now very uncommon these days (on my experience).
    I chose a custom spread for Zapdos; with a Timid nature + 156 EVs it is able to outspeed neutral base 100-101s like Adamant/Modest Salamence and Landorus-I and hit them with Hidden Power Ice before their eyes, expecting the standard Modest variant; 252 EVs on Sp.Atk + a Life Orb make up for the loss of power with a Timid nature over a Modest one, and the rest of the EVs are placed in its HP to improve its already good bulk.
    Zapdos, like Chandelure and Crobat, really appreciate Hitmontop's Wide Guard and Intimidate support, as well as its ability to dispose of any non-Focus Sash Tyranitar and Abomasnow; and in return, it helps Hitmontop countering Metagross and (to an extent) Amoonguss. it also enjoys Crobat's Tailwind support, since it can outspeed stuff that it can't normally outspeed by itself and hit with a Lightning-fast (pun intended) LO Thunderbolt.


    [​IMG]

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 106 SDef / 150 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball
    The Ever annoying Ferrothorn, widely infamous for being one hell of a counter against almost every-single rain team,Water or Grass-Types in the game, or Dragons like Latios and Latias lacking Hidden Power Fire.
    Its role in the team is mostly to help countering rain teams and to an extent, battle against certain Trick Room threats, like Rhyperior or Gastrodon.
    It's moveset is pretty standard, but still very effective; Leech Seed to annoy the hell out of Pokémon like Politoed or Metagross and to force them to switch out, unwilling to give Ferrothorn free HP; Power Whip as its STAB of choice to hit all those pesky Water-types (specially Gastrodon) hard thanks to its BP of 120 and Ferrothorn's moderate Attack; Gyro Ball as its secondary STAB and to hit hard anything with a high Speed stat, and hits even harder thanks to its 0 Speed IV and Relaxed Nature, guaranteeing that it is going to hit with its maximum BP at all times, and Protect to scout surprise Hidden Powers or simply to avoid damage.
    Its EVs and nature are Standard, Max HP investment to make full use of Ferrothorn's excellent defenses and typing, and Relaxed + 150 Defense EVs to help it cushion physical attacks better and the rest dumped into its Sp.Def; and i chose Leftovers as its item since it helped a lot more than the Occa Berry or a Rocky Helmet due to its passive recovery being far more helpful, especially when countering rain threats (its main role in the team).
    When it comes to teammates, it really appreciates Chandelure or Latios's help in taking on counters like sun team threats (except the rare Heatran, which is dealt with Hitmontop) or Zapdos, respectively; as well as Hitmontop's with Intimidate and Wide Guard support against incoming Heat Waves; while in return helping against rain teams or the ever annoying Cresselia and the rare Musharna.



    And well, that's all the RMT folks, i hope you can help with with some good constructive criticism and advice; Thanks in advance, and please RATE MY TEAM! it really helps!
  2. tlyee61

    tlyee61

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    377
    Hi Albus, you have a pretty nice goodstuff team on your hands. I have a few move, item and Pokemon suggestions for you.

    First of, you have some nice move choices! I really like the Draco Meteor + Haze combo, having used it myself previously! However, I would consider using Imprison > Protect since you want to use Chandy as an anti-TR mon. I would also change Latios' Psychic to Psyshock because the current metagame is very specially bulky.

    Next, I like most of your item choices. However, I would consider trying Choice Specs on Zapdos. It makes Zapdos powerful while retaining lots of bulk. A nice spread for Choice Specs Zapdos is 248 SpAtk / 140 Speed / 116 HP with a Timid nature and the moves HP Flying, Thunderbolt, Volt Switch and Heat Wave. It outspeeds Jolly Breloom and is really powerful!

    Lastly, I think 5/6 of your team choices are good, except for Ferrothorn. I don't think he's necessarily a bad mon on this team, I just think Scizor would be better. Cybertron's SD Scizor would be a nice starting point. Bullet Punch / Bug Bite / Protect / Swords Dance with a spread of your choice (can be speedy or bulky) and either Steel Gem, Occa Berry or Bug Gem would be good.

    hope this helps! :D
  3. Laurel

    Laurel The sun rises every day
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,314
    You have a really interesting VGC team... fortunately, I've been playing the tier a lot so I think I can help. Ferrothorn is just very out of place on your team. I suggest running a Rhyperior, a Scizor, or an Amoonguss in it's place. Amoonguss can spore everything, and has Regenerator, it also has rage powder which is an amazing move in VGC (Basically follow me). Scizor has priority and great coverage moves for VGC, it's also incredibly strong. Rhyperior also works fantastically under trick room with Chandelure, and if you run discharge on Zapdos over Thunderbolt it can be a fantastic partner. I also advice you use a Quiet Nature on Chandelure and 0 Speed IVs to minimize your speed as much as possible. The sets for Scizor, Rhyperior, and Amoonguss are as follows.

    Amoonguss (M) @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Spore
    - Rage Powder
    - Giga Drain
    - Protect

    Scizor (M) @ Steel Gem / Occa Berry
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Hp / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, - SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower / Swords Dance
    - Protect

    Rhyperior (M) @ Ground Gem
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Brave Nature (+Atk, - Spd)
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Megahorn
    - Protect

    Remember 0 IVs on the slow ones for trick room to make them as slow as possible. I'd also give Hitmontop 252 Hp instead of 252 Speed to make it more bulky. I also suggest Taunt>Haze on Crobat. This can stop your opponent from getting their own Tailwind, or setting up, most pokemon don't set up past +1 so Haze seems really useless. Even paired with healing Draco Meteor -2's, Latios doesn't kill much besides Sweepers with out the Dragon Gem, so after 1 I generally just protect or switch out. Taunt overall is more effective.

    tl;dr of changes.

    Hitmontop EVs -> 252 Hp > 252 Speed

    Ferrothorn -> Scizor, Amoonguss, Rhyperior

    Zapdos -> Discharge instead of Thunderbolt if you use Rhyperior

    Crobat -> Taunt over haze.
  4. tlyee61

    tlyee61

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    377
    Bolded are the points that I agree with or slightly changed but still agree with. The Amoonguss spread allows it to live Timid Dragon Gem Draco Meteor from Latios and Max Attack Adamant Zen Headbutt from Metagross. I would definitely use SD Steel Gem Scizor, it hits really hard and can sweep entire teams! Also, I would use 252 HP 'top for bulkiness, don't know how I skimmed over that in my original reading xD I would also change Ferrothorn to Scizor now. However, even if you use Rhyperior, I would not advise using Discharge unless on a Choice set over Volt Switch. Since Rhyperior would be the only one on your team immune to Discharge, it would suck to injure your own Pokemon / Paralyze them / have to keep protecting with them every other turn.
  5. Albus

    Albus

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    649
    First of all, Thanks for both of your ratings and suggestions, tlyee61 and Pkftmfw! :)
    @tlyee61, i'll follow your advice of replacing Ferrothorn with either a bulky SD Scizor or a Amonguss with your suggested spread, since Sciz can help me tear unprepared or weakened teams apart or Amoonguss can help me set up Tailwind much easier, while handling rain teams with its better supporting options over Ferro. however, i don't think i'll use Imprison + TR; sure, it stops most TR abusers and teams in theirs tracks (i used that combo myself too), but Protect's uses are too good to pass up.
    I think i'll test a bulky, yet Speed creepier Hitmontop (like a 212 HP/40 Spe spread i.e), as well as your Zapdos's spread (with the Specs too) to see how they work for me; and what would you think if i replace Haze/Taunt with U-Turn? it has great utility, especially in a Tailwind abusing team.
    And once again, thanks for your rate mate. :)

    @Pkftmfw, I've used a similar Rhyperior before with a great deal of success thanks to it being an awesome TR user (diffences being that i used it with a LO and Lightningrod instead of Solid Rock); however, despite Rhyp's good synergy with Zapdos, especially if the latter has Discharge, i doubt i'll use it on this team.
    I'll gladly test out Scizor, Amoonguss (with yours and tlyee's spreads) and the more Trick Room-ish Chandelure spread you suggested to see their performances in the Team whenever i test the team with those changes.
    And i'll change Haze for Taunt (or maybe U-Turn) without a doubt; by further use of Crobat on a local tourney yesterday Haze proved out to be completely worthless, specially in scenarios where Taunt or U-Turn could've helped me a lot more.
    And again, thanks for your rate!
  6. araluen7

    araluen7

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    17
    Change the attack IV on your Latios to 2, because as it stands now your Hidden Power BP is 68. Changing the IV to 2 makes it BP 70.

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